The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Matador]

I'm still trying to figure out why Sonic is still amongst the low tiers when he's got FAR better tourney results than everyone there...and has had better results since the first tier list.

 

[PKNintendo]

First question: Why does this matter? I'll answer my own question, it really doesn't. I'm in the SBR and I helped vote on this list. Everyone was pressuring for a tier list, people wanted one soooo bad so we worked our hardest to come up with a list that was satisfactory to most people. We focused most of our efforts dissecting the top tiers, mid tiers etc...Checking to see who beats who, why? What the most frequent top tier matchups are, how they relate to each other, etc. We tried pretty hard to cover the rest of the cast too, however, in order to get a satisfactory list, we focused our efforts on the characters that...hmm...how do I say this...

ACTUALLY MATTER!

As time goes by and the tier list is revised, we'll probably gain more perspective into lower tiers, AKA the characters that don't matter. Until then, respect the fact that we choose to evaluate higher tiers more, since they matter more.

It doesn't matter. Focusing on the WHOLE tier list instead of skimping on the list isn't a good Idea at all. We want it to be ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE.
We don't want trying, we want DOING!

Plus if you wanted to cover low tier, why didn't you assign a specialist on low tiers?

Also, Why in gods name did you put Mario that high? (9)
Dear lord.

He's good, but not THAT good.

I'm still trying to figure out why Sonic is still amongst the low tiers when he's got FAR better tourney results than everyone there...and has had better results since the first tier list.

I thought about that too, but I think you should ask the Sonic mains. They have an explanation on it. (methinks)

 

[Matador]

First question: Why does this matter? I'll answer my own question, it really doesn't. I'm in the SBR and I helped vote on this list. Everyone was pressuring for a tier list, people wanted one soooo bad so we worked our hardest to come up with a list that was satisfactory to most people.

No Johns. Just because you have a deadline doesn't give you permission to have sloppy work. It's common knowledge that Ness > Lucas, yet it's new to SBR?

We focused most of our efforts dissecting the top tiers, mid tiers etc...Checking to see who beats who, why? What the most frequent top tier matchups are, how they relate to each other, etc. We tried pretty hard to cover the rest of the cast too, however, in order to get a satisfactory list, we focused our efforts on the characters that...hmm...how do I say this...

ACTUALLY MATTER!

As time goes by and the tier list is revised, we'll probably gain more perspective into lower tiers, AKA the characters that don't matter. Until then, respect the fact that we choose to evaluate higher tiers more, since they matter more.

Evaluate the whole roster. The Tier list is a little more important than the 4 or 5 scrubs rushing you guys to figure out whether or not they'll main MK. It's used for too much for it to be as inaccurate you're allowing it to be. No one credible (I hope) it rushing you for a half-done mess when we could wait for a properly done tier list.

Edit: And get a grip PKN, Mario's only 2 spots up. It was a toss up whether or not Mario beat Ness in this list. It's not like he's where he's SUPPOSED to be on the list anyways, that'd cause a ruckus

 

[PKNintendo]

No Johns. Just because you have a deadline doesn't give you permission to have sloppy work. It's common knowledge that Ness > Lucas, yet it's new to SBR?

Evaluate the whole roster. The Tier list is a little more important than the 4 or 5 scrubs rushing you guys to figure out whether or not they'll main MK. It's used for too much for it to be as inaccurate you're allowing it to be. No one credible (I hope) it rushing you for a half-done mess when we could wait for a properly done tier list.

Edit: And get a grip PKN, Mario's only 2 spots up. It was a toss up whether or not Mario beat Ness in this list. It's not like he's where he's SUPPOSED to be on the list anyways, that'd cause a ruckus

NO!!!


He was rank 9 AKA high tier. Not the current list.

In case anyone's curious, here was my list when I voted.

15-Snake, Meta Knight
14-Diddy Kong, Olimar
13-King DeDeDe, Falco, Marth, Game and Watch
12-Wario, Donkey Kong
11-Zero Suit Samus
10- Kirby, Lucario, Luigi
9-R.O.B., Pikachu, Mario
8-Ice Climbers
7-Peach, Ike, Sheik, Zelda
6-Pit, Bowser, Yoshi, Wolf
5-Sonic, Toon Link
4-Fox, Pokemon Trainer, Samus
3-Ness, Lucas
2-Falcon, Jigglypuff
1-Ganondorf, Link

JesiahTEG list is decent, but has some glaring faults.
Such as the lower half of the tier list.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Like Ness and Lucas the same, lol. No, we didn't "skimp" on it because of a deadline, that's far from it. Let's put it this way.

The gap between Meta Knight and Snake was a big discussion. Whether or not Game and Watch was overrated took a long time. DDD being a really good character, but having bad matchups was discussed a lot. Olimar's placement as well.

Things like that take priority over things like Ness and Lucas' placement. Also, my list was very different from the rest of the SBR's.

 

[PKNintendo]

Like Ness and Lucas the same, lol. No, we didn't "skimp" on it because of a deadline, that's far from it. Let's put it this way.

The gap between Meta Knight and Snake was a big discussion. Whether or not Game and Watch was overrated took a long time. DDD being a really good character, but having bad matchups was discussed a lot. Olimar's placement as well.

Things like that take priority over things like Ness and Lucas' placement. Also, my list was very different from the rest of the SBR's.

Nevertheless other points matter. Its not just Ness and Lucas, it's the rest of Lucas. 2 characters, don't take priority over dozens of characters.

The gap between Mk and Snake was discussed? Hmm, I think ironing out low tier FIRST, then doing the later tiers first are a better idea.

*We know that MK is better than Snake. We can discuss the gap later without problem
*We apparently don't know wether Ness is better than Lucas. Let's iron that out first.

Olimar's placement ...

 

[Flayl]

If you don't ive a rats *** about the lower half of the cast, then don't bother putting them on the tier list. It's very simple, either you get it right, or you don't do it at all.

 

[Camalange]

First question: Why does this matter? I'll answer my own question, it really doesn't. I'm in the SBR and I helped vote on this list. Everyone was pressuring for a tier list, people wanted one soooo bad so we worked our hardest to come up with a list that was satisfactory to most people. We focused most of our efforts dissecting the top tiers, mid tiers etc...Checking to see who beats who, why? What the most frequent top tier matchups are, how they relate to each other, etc. We tried pretty hard to cover the rest of the cast too, however, in order to get a satisfactory list, we focused our efforts on the characters that...hmm...how do I say this...

ACTUALLY MATTER!

As time goes by and the tier list is revised, we'll probably gain more perspective into lower tiers, AKA the characters that don't matter. Until then, respect the fact that we choose to evaluate higher tiers more, since they matter more.

Well, there you have it folks!

A member of the SBR has simply admitted the fact that they honestly just don't give two flying ****s about any character below High Tier.

So, basically, let's not argue anymore. If they don't care, then they won't listen. No point giving them facts and figures, they'll just go ignored. Why? Because it doesn't matter. They just don't care. People are consistently placing high in tournaments with your Low Tier character? Doesn't matter, because they just don't care.

I'm a Sonic main, so I'm pretty used to it by now.

Elitism at it's best.

 

[Browny]

sounds more like johns to me, since elitism implies a lot of knowledge

not spending a fraction of time discussing the lower 20 characters, while most is spent discussing MK vs snake, which EVERYONE knows ends up in mk a higher tier than snake, is just a pathetic excuse because 'they matter'. I mean seriously, Did anyone in the world ever doubt MK would be god tier above snake? or was the time spent proving a point which everyone knows more important than 50% of the characters... lol

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Well it makes sense to me. The lower half of the tier list is the only part I have problems with. They'll get it right eventually.

 

[PKNintendo]

Sigh, let's hope they get it right ASAP.

What pisses me off was the attitude though.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Well, you have to think. Probably 90% of people at high level play are going to be at the high tiers, therefore they talk about the high tiers a lot more than they do the low tiers.

Lower tiers aren't played as much, and are also hard to categorize/group/whatever.

I don't see why an exact tier list even matters. A rough tier list is fine enough, then just think about a character's matchups. A lot more discussion from the people who actually play those characters, a lot more consice, etc.

 

[PKNintendo]

Well, you have to think. Probably 90% of people at high level play are going to be at the high tiers, therefore they talk about the high tiers a lot more than they do the low tiers.

Lower tiers aren't played as much, and are also hard to categorize/group/whatever.

I don't see why an exact tier list even matters. A rough tier list is fine enough, then just think about a character's matchups. A lot more discussion from the people who actually play those characters, a lot more consice, etc.

As Matador put it, no johns. All characters matter, and thats how tier lists our form.

Sloppiness has been in the past, can you believe Ness was in middle tier in Melee for a few years. Middle tier

And Luigi was in Low tier. **** it, that ruined so many low tier tourneys for me, so many tourneys.

 

[BentoBox]

This is why this tier list voting system is laughable compared to other fighting games communities'....

 

[Barge]

Lol, if they're going to make a tier list, they should make it accurate for every character.

"Low tiers dont matter"
They're still part of the cast and should be evaluated effectively and fairly.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I don't care what they do to the low tiers, as long as Bowser goes up.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Several gaming communities rank character according to their matchups.
No they do not rank certain matchups more just because a character is high tier. All matchups are considered equal because in saying "character A vs character B is more important." brings into the discussion factors that have no business in the tier list.

In short, it would be the equivalent of bringing in mind games to the discussion.
I don't mind the voting so much as it seems that the SBR weighs certain matchups more than others which should not occur.

now concerning the fact that they focus on high tier and top tier characters.
Fine that's understandable, high tier and up do tend to garner more attention, they are after all, the characters that have a reasonable chance of winning.

I do believe though that attention should now shift from the high-top tiers to characters in middle and below.
The prime reasoning is this, those characters are high tier, if those characters are high tier, and will not change in their placement, then why continuously devote more energy into them?

If the excuse is that accuracy is required, then by all means exclude the characters below high tier because if they mean nothing, it becomes contradictory to leave the reason inaccurate with unreasonable excuses.
"If you believe a character is better than he seems, prove it!'
Well gee, the Sonic boards have been doing that for a YEAR. For the entire year and the most sonic moves up is ONE spot.

If such requirements for evidence are required, then why do the complete opposite and say that evidence is insufficient? I know people can be stupid, but how long do you think they'll eat bull****?
Simply put, don't lie to people and expect them to accept it.

A deadline? you are telling me, members of the smash community, who have some of the greatest knowledge on smash, feel the need to follow a deadline? Why in the hell would the SBR even bother entertaining such an idea?

The most important of which being accuracy.It would be understandable if the information that the SBR required was unavailable, or characters were under developed. In several instances this is true, however, if the information is readily present , as it is in most cases, then why blatantly ignore it?

Fine you decide on a deadline and so you are limited in the time it takes to evaluate those characters.
Fine, some information is not readily available for some characters.
Hell I don't even mind if there are some excuses for characters not moving up or down as long as those reasons are not terribly flawed.
But kindly do not misinform members on saying you are attempting to make an accurate tierlist, when you obviously spend YEARS devoted to high tier characters who, most likely, will not be leaving said tiers anytime soon.

Now as I said earlier, yeah its udnerstandable, low tier character have a lesser chance of winning.
If its okay to discuss who has a 85% of winning and who has a 70% chance of winning, then it should be fine to discuss who has a 27% and who has a 26% chance of winning. Instead of just tossing them against the wall and seeing what happens.

Edit: And don't basically say "**** you" to people who complain. Its not as if they are bashing the SBR itself.(but those that do certainly deserve it).

 

[JesiahTEG]

Not gonna lie, it's not really the SBR that doesn't care about low tiers, it's pretty much just me LOL.

Either way though, even if I mained a low tier and I WASN'T in the SBR, I'd still prefer a tier list focused more towards accurate high tiers, rather than low tiers. Or to put another way, most of the effort focused on high tiers.

But yeah, I think low tiers are pretty stupid to be honest. BUT! Not as stupid as mid characters trying to be good, that have a few tricks up their sleeves.

Example: Rob. Here we have a character that's not really bad, but not really too great either. He camps a lot and tilts stuff, Dsmash, you guys know the drill.

What's really stupid is all the R.O.B. stuff that is so standard and everyone uses, it doesn't take skill and people should not even BOTHER playing with the character because of it. Like, when you're in the air and R.O.B. throws out a neutral air to go through your airdodge. I want to just pause the game and tell the person:

Listen man. Your character's not that good. You just did something that takes absolutely no skill, but you probably think you're good for it. To be honest, you should probably just play Meta Knight and spam Tornado, because it's essentially the same thing.

I would much, much rather fight a tourney of all Meta Knights that know what they are doing, then a tourney full of diversity. It's like, why bother playing such STUPID characters? Pick the top tiers and get it over with, ****.

Yes, I'm being mostly completely serious with this post.

Edit: PK Nintendo: I'm pretty much the only person ever with this attitude. Don't think the whole SBR is like this.

Also, I play Pokemon Trainer for fun, so it's not like I don't understand the concepts of low tiers. However, I acknowledge the fact that my low tier character is absolutely worthless, and never try to do anything with him besides be funny with him/fun teams matches.

 

[M.K]

The definition of fail..

You, you, you, you you. That is ALL I see, everything is about YOU?
Think about the community, not everyone shares the same mindset as you. Think about people who choose their favorite character and TRY to get better, just to have *******s like you tell them "Your character doesn't matter LOL".
ROB is a high tier character by the way, I mean, YOU made the tier list, shouldn't YOU know?
Oh wait, you don't. You make that blatently clear.

You are the epitome of elitist scum. Why in the hell would you EVER say something like this?

 

[BentoBox]

That was a terrible post lmao

 

[JesiahTEG]

I understand that people care about their characters and stuff, but unless you can actually do something with them it's like a waste.

Also, some characters really don't matter. It's the sad, cold hard truth.

And, when characters that don't matter place high, I don't have respect for them anyways, I have respect for the players. Boss is a good example. The guy is amazing. Doesn't mean Mario is good and god forbid everyone picking him up and playing w/him in tournament.

Plus, it's not like I hate people that play low tiers, that's how you're making me out to be lol. Some of my best friends play low tiers, my best friend plays Ganon. I 3 stock him consistently and ask him "Why are you playing this crappy character?" And we laugh because we both know Ganon is horrible.

Oh you're a R.O.B. player, probably should have used a different example...

 

[da K.I.D.]

I'm still trying to figure out why Sonic is still amongst the low tiers when he's got FAR better tourney results than everyone there...and has had better results since the first tier list.

i love the amount of amazing in this post, simply because of the fact that this is NOT coming from a sonic main. I might sig this....

I thought about that too, but I think you should ask the Sonic mains. They have an explanation on it. (methinks)

The only thing we came up with is that we have to get NOT ONLY continue to maintain and possibly improve upon the tourney placings that we have had so far, but we have to do it in BIGGER tourneys, AND we have to make sure that everyone we play against knows the ENTIRE matchup backwards and forwards...

Which is ENTIRELY correct since its IMPOSSIBLE to argue since sonic is the ONLY character that ANYBODY can have matchup inexperience against even though everyone in my area has been playing my sonic since may, an i still pull the same tourney results now that i got then...

If you don't ive a rats *** about the lower half of the cast, then don't bother putting them on the tier list. It's very simple, either you get it right, or you don't do it at all.

i like this idea, just have uber, top and high tier, and just end it. just be like,
Mid Tier:
To be honest, we only really cared about uber top and high tier, so instead of giving you something we dont agree on, we'll just end the list here.

just for the record, jesiahTEG, you have a crap ton of experience with a reeeeaally good sonic player, how much do you care about him?

 

[Browny]

Which is ENTIRELY correct since its IMPOSSIBLE to argue since sonic is the ONLY character that ANYBODY can have matchup inexperience against

QFT x 1 billion

 

[Ling Ling]

Mr. Game and Watch is Overrated, he's not good enough to be that high.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I wish that people could develop a tierlist JUST on match ups, since there are lots of people that pwn that don't go to tournaments, who could probably change this list if they started attending. Tournaments fluctuate from time to time, kinda like popularity lists and fads. But matchups will remain pretty much constant, except for when people learn new game revolutionizing techinques. The match up list would be harder to do, but it seems like it would be more accurate.

 

[aeghrur]

Da-D-Mon, matchups are NOT constant.
I remember a time when it was 70:30 MK to Olimar.
As the metagame advances, the matchups change, so no, they don't stay constant. Even without brand new techniques, people find ways to hide their weaknesses and exploit others weaknesses, so it changes.

 

[Flayl]

QFT x 1 billion

This is not just for you, but please don't make this about Sonic -.-

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

But still, that kinda tier list would be more stable than one based on just Tournament results. I didn't make the part about the game breaking new moves as emphasied as I should... But still.

That being said, when is the SBR developing the newest list? I wanna see the changes that they've developed.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Not gonna lie, it's not really the SBR that doesn't care about low tiers, it's pretty much just me LOL.

Either way though, even if I mained a low tier and I WASN'T in the SBR, I'd still prefer a tier list focused more towards accurate high tiers, rather than low tiers. Or to put another way, most of the effort focused on high tiers.

But yeah, I think low tiers are pretty stupid to be honest. BUT! Not as stupid as mid characters trying to be good, that have a few tricks up their sleeves.

Example: Rob. Here we have a character that's not really bad, but not really too great either. He camps a lot and tilts stuff, Dsmash, you guys know the drill.

What's really stupid is all the R.O.B. stuff that is so standard and everyone uses, it doesn't take skill and people should not even BOTHER playing with the character because of it. Like, when you're in the air and R.O.B. throws out a neutral air to go through your airdodge. I want to just pause the game and tell the person:

Listen man. Your character's not that good. You just did something that takes absolutely no skill, but you probably think you're good for it. To be honest, you should probably just play Meta Knight and spam Tornado, because it's essentially the same thing.

I would much, much rather fight a tourney of all Meta Knights that know what they are doing, then a tourney full of diversity. It's like, why bother playing such STUPID characters? Pick the top tiers and get it over with, ****.

Yes, I'm being mostly completely serious with this post.

Edit: PK Nintendo: I'm pretty much the only person ever with this attitude. Don't think the whole SBR is like this.

Also, I play Pokemon Trainer for fun, so it's not like I don't understand the concepts of low tiers. However, I acknowledge the fact that my low tier character is absolutely worthless, and never try to do anything with him besides be funny with him/fun teams matches.

Come to NJ if you want to fight a tournament of MKs.

 

[RyanPF]

@Da-D-Mon

June or so I believe.

 

[Yonder]

And Luigi was in Low tier. **** it, that ruined so many low tier tourneys for me, so many tourneys.

What if there was E and below tournaments for Brawl?

*Sees rampaging Luigis everywhere*

Yeah...

 

[infomon]

What's really stupid is all the R.O.B. stuff that is so standard and everyone uses, it doesn't take skill and people should not even BOTHER playing with the character because of it. Like, when you're in the air and R.O.B. throws out a neutral air to go through your airdodge.

in addition to a faaail post... are you seriously whining because you think it's dumb that ROBs are able to punish your vulnerable airdodges? That's not even a john, it's just... bizarre. Maybe I don't get where you were going with this.

That was a terrible post lmao

^^ this

I wish that people could develop a tierlist JUST on match ups

The "problem" with this idea is that it would require people to actually understand how all the matchups work at high-level play. Which noone does; noone in the world can possibly know that. Not for at least another year, probably much longer (if ever). So many characters aren't really used at all in the tournament scene, especially the high-level tournament scene.

That is to say, that is a fantastic and correct idea. But for some reason the SBR-B thinks they need to publish full tier lists, even this early in Brawl's development. Note that there is a disclaimer on their published lists that should be interpreted as "we don't have a freaking clue how the bottom half of characters work, so don't pretend there's any meaning associated with these arbitrary rankings. But for some reason we'll publish them anyway so ppl can keep arguing in futility for another 6mo."

Personally I'd rather they didn't say anything at all when there isn't any evidence that they know what they're talking about. A problem they could solve by manning up and showing us the evidence; that is to say, revealing their secret (lol) discussions, so we can all know what they don't know about our "stupid" characters. I'm sure we'd find ourselves a lot of facepalms

 

[KO M]

CPUs after a long time , they will copy.... and build there own play style.
A NinjaLink fused with Boss's play style.... scary

 

[Frown]

I thought mods were supposed to be role models...

 

[Kinzer]

Post.

Problem with that is that matchups are also opinion-based.

To think if a tier list WAS made on that, Sonic would be as bad as he looks on paper...

...Yeah, you people know who you are...

I thought mods were supposed to be role models...

You're thinking of the Pool Room mods (when they aren't fooling around), otherwise here in the Smash part of SWF, it's all just guys who were lucky enough to be appointed up high and for whatever reason when Brawl came out haven't put out as much "effort" into it. (majority of them, a few of them are actually cool)

...At least this is how think they do if they were a corrupt government.

But I suppose they can't be since I've at the most I've done so far is just take their words with a pinch of salt.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean my stance on competitive play is going to be any different than it originally was. My job is to keep the Snake boards and Pokemon Center in order, not agree with the masses.

 

[Red Arremer]

Not gonna lie, it's not really the SBR that doesn't care about low tiers, it's pretty much just me LOL.

Then, why are you saying that the SBR doesn't care about LT, although meaning YOU don't?

Either way though, even if I mained a low tier and I WASN'T in the SBR, I'd still prefer a tier list focused more towards accurate high tiers, rather than low tiers. Or to put another way, most of the effort focused on high tiers.

I'd rather have a completely accurate tierlist. Otherwise, make it like Buzz said:
Top Tier
High Tier
Everybody else in alphabetical order because we don't care

Oh wait, it's only YOU with that mindset. The guy who voted High/Mid Tier on Mario. Right-o.

But yeah, I think low tiers are pretty stupid to be honest. BUT! Not as stupid as mid characters trying to be good, that have a few tricks up their sleeves.

So you insult the characters people play just because you don't get along with them - respectively don't WANT to get along with them...? Wow. That sure is mature.
Low Tiers also can have a few tricks up their sleeves.

Example: Rob. Here we have a character that's not really bad, but not really too great either. He camps a lot and tilts stuff, Dsmash, you guys know the drill.

What's really stupid is all the R.O.B. stuff that is so standard and everyone uses, it doesn't take skill and people should not even BOTHER playing with the character because of it. Like, when you're in the air and R.O.B. throws out a neutral air to go through your airdodge. I want to just pause the game and tell the person:

Listen man. Your character's not that good. You just did something that takes absolutely no skill, but you probably think you're good for it. To be honest, you should probably just play Meta Knight and spam Tornado, because it's essentially the same thing.

What the heck is this sh*t? You're saying that because the strategy of ROB is "simple" that he is a stupid character who requires no skill to learn? ROFLMAO. That's epic fail. Seriously, man, I'd expect more from an SBR member than this crap. So what if ROB's NAir is his strategy to go through your airdodge? Same could be said about MK's NAir.

And you're saying that I should pick Meta Knight - what if I don't like him? If I don't get along with his playstyle? Then I'm screwed, right? 'cause I shouldn't bother playing a character whom I like to play as.

I would much, much rather fight a tourney of all Meta Knights that know what they are doing, then a tourney full of diversity. It's like, why bother playing such STUPID characters? Pick the top tiers and get it over with, ****.

So you're basically saying the following:
Don't pick Low Tier characters and try to prove they are better than we think, because then our divinity would be put into question and we can't argue about stuff we don't give a **** about, but would have to argue about our mistakes. And we do NOT make mistakes. Cause we are the SBR. We are God.

Also, no, I don't want to see an All-MK tournament. MK Dittos are boring to play, even more boring to watch, and a diversity of characters is extremely interesting to watch, because you'll see stuff you haven't seen before.

Yes, I'm being mostly completely serious with this post.

That is sad on a whole new level.

Edit: PK Nintendo: I'm pretty much the only person ever with this attitude. Don't think the whole SBR is like this.

Thank God.

Also, I play Pokemon Trainer for fun, so it's not like I don't understand the concepts of low tiers. However, I acknowledge the fact that my low tier character is absolutely worthless, and never try to do anything with him besides be funny with him/fun teams matches.

But if it isn't accurate which characters are Low Tier and which are Mid Tier, it screws up LT-games! The example PKNintendo gave with Melee's Luigi and Ness was pretty much perfect for it.
Also: You say we should prove that our characters are good? The Sonic mains say Hi. Seriously. They have placed in so many tournaments already, and all you say is "Whatever, I don't give a **** about him anyway, cause he's LT." Very cool attitude. That's blatant LYING.

That was a terrible post lmao

Yes. Yes it was.

I understand that people care about their characters and stuff, but unless you can actually do something with them it's like a waste.

No it isn't. And we're not talking about people here who have joined 3 days ago, come in and go like "wy iz linkz so low, hez aws0m and teh heor of teim, he shud be hiher D:<", it's people who play characters which are, simply put, victims of ignorance. Since I play Bowser, I can tell you a lot of stories about it. How his Melee self still haunts him, and stuff like that. Also, again, YOU are one of the persons who voted Mario rather high (9 points).

Also, some characters really don't matter. It's the sad, cold hard truth.

Thank God the SBR isn't like you. Can I table a motion of no confidence in you?

And, when characters that don't matter place high, I don't have respect for them anyways, I have respect for the players. Boss is a good example. The guy is amazing. Doesn't mean Mario is good and god forbid everyone picking him up and playing w/him in tournament.

So basically, again, you're contradicting yourself.
First of all, you also voted for Mario's placement into Mid Tier.

Second, you have said before "Go out to tournaments and prove your characters are worthy." and now you say "And even if you do, I don't give a ****, because I'm a ******* who only cares about characters who win even more."

Plus, it's not like I hate people that play low tiers, that's how you're making me out to be lol. Some of my best friends play low tiers, my best friend plays Ganon. I 3 stock him consistently and ask him "Why are you playing this crappy character?" And we laugh because we both know Ganon is horrible.

Noone argues about Ganondorf being horrible. We all know that. Everyone agrees with that, even the Ganon mains. We are argueing about obvious BS that tier list has, like Ness and Lucas being tied or Sonic only rising one rank albeit placing constantly in tourneys.

Oh you're a R.O.B. player, probably should have used a different example...

To put it into the words of your main: That was a low blow, Colonel.

I thought mods were supposed to be role models...

Don't ever see that guy as role model. I'd rather have him kicked out of the SBR because of his attitude towards the community. It's like "LOL you idiots play crappy characters, get lost, noone give a **** about you and your idiotic characters anyway!"

 

[JesiahTEG]

15-Snake, Meta Knight
14-Diddy Kong, Olimar
13-King DeDeDe, Falco, Marth, Game and Watch
12-Wario, Donkey Kong
11-Zero Suit Samus
10- Kirby, Lucario, Luigi
9-R.O.B., Pikachu, Mario
8-Ice Climbers
7-Peach, Ike, Sheik, Zelda
6-Pit, Bowser, Yoshi, Wolf
5-Sonic, Toon Link
4-Fox, Pokemon Trainer, Samus
3-Ness, Lucas
2-Falcon, Jigglypuff
1-Ganondorf, Link

This is my tier list, that was used in voting for the official one.

Alright, let's take a look at my list, specifically Sonic since you think I'm "lying" about him. Where do we draw the line between Sonic and another character, FOR SURE? At Ice Climbers. There is no way Sonic is better than Ice Climbers, for sure. So he HAS to be below them. Let's move down from there.

Is he better than Peach? No. Is he better than Ike? Hell no. Is he better than Sheik? No. Is he better than Zelda? I'm inclined to say no, but admittedly I'm a bit weak in terms of knowledge when it comes to Zelda.

Is he better than Pit? No. Wolf? No. Yoshi? I play against both a fairly good Yoshi and a fairly good Sonic, and I'm inclined to believe that Yoshi is better. But, it's more likely Sonic is better than Yoshi than Sonic to be better than Wolf and Pit though. Is he better than Bowser? Maybe. I admit, this tier is perhaps a bit fuzzy. However, only 2 of those characters are possibly worse than Sonic.

So, if you really believe I should move Sonic up one tier simply because he may be better than Bowser/Yoshi, then fine. But is it really THAT big of a deal to complain about it constantly?

Better yet, where would YOU put Sonic on the tier list?

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm not talking about Sonic on the paper. He's just the prime example.

I'm talking about this:
SBR says: Go out and prove that your character is worthy of rising up in the tier list by placing in tourneys, if you think they're too low.
You say: Even if you do place in tournaments with your character, I don't give a ****, because I AM RIGHT, no matter what happens. And the characters I think are bad are not worth any mention.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Tournament Results are important, that's fact. However, the tier list is not based solely on Tournament Results. You have to look at the whys and hows behind it. Sure, lots of Sonic mains place in tournament, but that's because Sonic has a huge fanbase with tons of people wanting to "prove" him.

Ice Climbers don't have nearly as many people going out and placing in tournaments with them as Sonic does. What if they did though? In fact, what if half of the top Sonic placers switched to Ice Climbers. I can guarantee you that the Sonic players that now switched to Ice Climbers would place better in tournament.

Switch it around. What if the top Ice Climbers players switched to Sonic? They would place lower.

So, tournament results are important, but when you look at the WHYS and HOWS of what's going on, they cannot be used solely to determine where characters place on the tier list. In Sonic's case, he has a ton of people playing him. Of course some people are going to be skilled enough to place semi well with him, but that's expected when you have sooo many people playing him to try and prove that he's good. That doesn't mean the character is any better though.

Also, I've never heard of a Sonic main beating a pretty good player using a high tier, save Inui, and he ***** Sonic now.