The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[GwJ]

IMO, her projectiles aren't meant to be fired as an offensive tactic. They're used similar to Falco's laser, but not as useful.

 

[Barge]

Her projectiles are what make her a good matchup against snake.
Her missiles are great for spamming quick draw, spacing, distractions and follow ups to a lot of other attacks.
Zair outranges snake and a lot of other characters, letting her do pretty much anything out of it, which is why zair - > charged shot is a smart move.
Her down b is great for recovery, ledge guarding, and spacing.
Up B is a great offensive as it is for recovery. Often used out of a dair, but easy to SDI out of.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Peach.
I think she's gonna rise in the next tier list. She rose five spots already, and i think she will move above pit and possibly others too.
Thoughts?

Realistically, I honestly don't think she will. I wish she would be I don't think she will

Peach is a solid character. She's a really good character but being really good simply isn't good enough Brawl - you have to be fantastic or have something really special. Peach doesn't have that 'special-super-good' thing about her. Her Dair comes close but it just doesn't quite cut it, combined with her *cough* rather poor vertical recovery and lack of range/kill power

Her problem is that whilst she doesn't have any really bad match ups...she doesn't have any really good match ups. Most of her match ups are even or at a slight disadvantage/advantage for her, apart from G&W (who's supposdly pretty nasty for her) and Olimar (who she does well against). That's not going to get her up very far in the tier list if she has to work harder to beat out the more elite of characters at the top end of the tier list

This is the same for every character when you look at them and try and place them but I'm just gonna use it for Peach now. Like I said, she's a really good character but does she deserve to be higher than where she is atm? Let's take a look

There's no way she's getting anywhere near MK or Snake. The whole of A tier? Out of the question due to how good they are/their popularity/match ups. B Tier? Popularity and matchups/character abilities again beat out hers. C Tier? Again, same as before really. D Tier?

..oh...

And that's the problem. It's all very well saying 'I think character X should be in Y tier because they are really good' but you have to look at everyone else above and think carefully 'Does character X deserve to be above A, B, C, D etc. character?'. At the moment, I don't think Peach is deserving of going any higher atm. Time will tell though

 

[GwJ]

Her projectiles are what make her a good matchup against snake.
Her missiles are great for spamming quick draw, spacing, distractions and follow ups to a lot of other attacks.
Zair outranges snake and a lot of other characters, letting her do pretty much anything out of it, which is why zair - > charged shot is a smart move.
Her down b is great for recovery, ledge guarding, and spacing.
Up B is a great offensive as it is for recovery. Often used out of a dair, but easy to SDI out of.

What he said. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[RyanPF]

Realistically, I honestly don't think she will. I wish she would be I don't think she will

Peach is a solid character. She's a really good character but being really good simply isn't good enough Brawl - you have to be fantastic or have something really special. Peach doesn't have that 'special-super-good' thing about her. Her Dair comes close but it just doesn't quite cut it, combined with her *cough* rather poor vertical recovery and lack of range/kill power

Her problem is that whilst she doesn't have any really bad match ups...she doesn't have any really good match ups. Most of her match ups are even or at a slight disadvantage/advantage for her, apart from G&W (who's supposdly pretty nasty for her) and Olimar (who she does well against). That's not going to get her up very far in the tier list if she has to work harder to beat out the more elite of characters at the top end of the tier list

This is the same for every character when you look at them and try and place them but I'm just gonna use it for Peach now. Like I said, she's a really good character but does she deserve to be higher than where she is atm? Let's take a look

There's no way she's getting anywhere near MK or Snake. The whole of A tier? Out of the question due to how good they are/their popularity/match ups. B Tier? Popularity and matchups/character abilities again beat out hers. C Tier? Again, same as before really. D Tier?

..oh...

And that's the problem. It's all very well saying 'I think character X should be in Y tier because they are really good' but you have to look at everyone else above and think carefully 'Does character X deserve to be above A, B, C, D etc. character?'. At the moment, I don't think Peach is deserving of going any higher atm. Time will tell though

All this is true.

 

[ZesuBen]

Another thing, Death. I think Yoshi will rise. Not too much, but he may just get out of f-tier from what I've heard and seen. His matchups against high-tier characters are good, he's got good recovery, he's got a good projectile, a good grab... I know he's got some bad points... But I think Yoshi will rise.

 

[RyanPF]

He's last in F tier. Getting out of F-tier would be a huge move. >.>

 

[ZesuBen]

Getting out of F-tier would require his average score increasing to the margins of the E-tier. I think it would be difficult to predict how everyone moves, but as more and more tournaments happen, higher tier characters get more representation, and lower tier characters get less. Less tournament support means lower scores. If E tier scores turn out to be lower in the next list, then Yoshi's got a decent shot. Even if there are just more tiers it would work out.

Besides. Peach went up 5 points for this list. I'd say that was a pretty big move... Anyway, we'll see.

 

[Deathcarter]

Samus is definitely not below Falcon. She's at least one tier above. Her projectiles, Zair, and Recovery prevents that.

Her projectiles suck, Zair only does 4/7 damage, and recovery does not mean crap unless its that of a top tier being compared to other top tiers. The only 2 things that Samus could have for a case as why she should be above Falcon is that she never has to go enter her opponents range except for Olimar (who is her worst matchup anyway) and the fact that her matchups outside of the top tiers and low tiers are pretty consistent 4:6 disadvantages except for Olimar and Lucario while most other low tiers have to worry about the occasional B/C/D/E tier borderline ****/**** matchup.

The first point is irrelevent since she is not that hard to approach and any good character can return the damage she inflicted on them back to her in spades. The second one is debatable since the Samus boards barely got their matchup discussions started and Falcon's matchups could possibly be underated considering no one takes him (and Jiggs and Ganon) seriously anyway.

Another thing, Death. I think Yoshi will rise. Not too much, but he may just get out of f-tier from what I've heard and seen. His matchups against high-tier characters are good, he's got good recovery, he's got a good projectile, a good grab... I know he's got some bad points... But I think Yoshi will rise.

I agree that Yoshi will rise, but out of F-tier? In order for that to happen, he will have to prove himself to be more viable than Sonic and Pokemon Trainer at least (I do not beleive ALL three of them are getting out of F tier). All of them (except Ivasaur who sucks) seem to have similar potential against the high tiers which is not much unfortunately.

 

[RyanPF]

*crosses fingers for Green Ace at COT4*

I don't really think that Yoshi, Sonic, and PT are competing with each other... E-tier does not have limited capacity. They just need to beat out everyone else in F-tier by a sizable enough margin to get to E-tier.

 

[Zodac]

z-air isn't suppose to be a damage racking move

 

[Kinzer]

Nop, it's a spacing tool.

Works d*** good too.

 

[Barge]

Her projectiles suck, Zair only does 4/7 damage, and recovery does not mean crap unless its that of a top tier being compared to other top tiers.

Ness and Lucas.

 

[Deathcarter]

*crosses fingers for Green Ace at COT4*

I don't really think that Yoshi, Sonic, and PT are competing with each other... E-tier does not have limited capacity. They just need to beat out everyone else in F-tier by a sizable enough margin to get to E-tier.

Well that is true, but do you think Pokemon Trainer or Sonic can make it to E-tier? Because honestly, I don't. They not only have to beat out the F-tier by a sizeable amount, but they also have to compete on even ground with the E-tier. I mentioned those 2 is because as I beleive they are the two prominent characters in F-tier (who imo aren't good enough for E-tier currently speaking), Yoshi will have to pass them to make it to E-tier.

Tell me, how do you think PT and Sonic compete with the E tier? Or how do you beleive Yoshi beats them?

Nop, it's a spacing tool.

Works d*** good too.

Very good point.

 

[PKNintendo]

Lucas.

Lol good one Barge.!
Wait, Lucas doesn't have a bad recovery, and his Zair does 0 damage!

 

[Barge]

Both of their recoveries are gimpable, ness' especially. And it's funny when PKT2 gets absorbed.

 

[RyanPF]

Well that is true, but do you think Pokemon Trainer or Sonic can make it to E-tier? Because honestly, I don't. They not only have to beat out the F-tier by a sizeable amount, but they also have to compete on even ground with the E-tier. I mentioned those 2 is because as I beleive they are the two prominent characters in F-tier (who imo aren't good enough for E-tier currently speaking), Yoshi will have to pass them to make it to E-tier.

Tell me, how do you think PT and Sonic compete with the E tier? Or how do you beleive Yoshi beats them?.

I think PT falls a little short of E-tier. Sonic could be there , possibly, but I don't think he's going to rise very much before he stops or falls back down. Sonic really isn't much better than your average F-tier character, but he rattles people into making mistakes and forgetting their game plan. When everybody learns to play against Sonic decently, he'll stop moving and maybe even be overtaken by better overall characters.

I think Yoshi is just a wee bit better than PT and definitely better than Sonic in the long run. But unless some more really useful ATs are discovered or the good Yoshi mains multiply, I can't picture Yoshi getting higher than the top of F-tier.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Falcon's matchups could possibly be underated considering no one takes him (and Jiggs and Ganon and Lucas and Link and ESPECIALLY Sonic) seriously anyway.

let me illustrate my point...

1. Sonic really isn't much better than your average F-tier character, but he rattles people into making mistakes and forgetting their game plan. When everybody learns to play against Sonic decently, he'll stop moving and maybe even be overtaken by better overall characters.

2. I think Yoshi is just a wee bit better than PT and definitely better than Sonic in the long run. But unless some more really useful ATs are discovered or the good Yoshi mains multiply, I can't picture Yoshi getting higher than the top of F-tier.

1. If he was in the same league of abilities as the rest of his tier, he wouldnt consistently be in the league of wolf when it comes to getting RESULTS.
Also, Sonic is one of those characters that forces other characters to alter their game plan as to how to fight him. Because if you dont, you tend to get wrecked.
Also... people dont know how to fight sonic?! I believe we have 2 different threads in our board that are DEVOTED to showing people how to BEAT sonic.

2. Yoshi is slightly worse than sonic.

 

[Kinzer]

By the way, don't go playing the matchups thread card on KID, we may have very little advantaged matchups, but you can go ahead and put the blame on the bias of the opposing board, who were too proud to say it was neutral or in our favor.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ I'm still laughing that a most of the character's I main moved down on the tier list. XD ♪

♪ There's little case about Wario may move down, he's between Top tier or High tier so it's confusing. ♪

 

[Browny]

Anyway no more sonic talk lol...

Olimar should be below mk, snake, ddd, falco, G&W. MAYYYBE wario, since his tourney rep is pretty awesome, same with Ice climbers too. thats it imo. I hesitate to put marth with those 2 since marth really cant win tourneys all marth like those two can

 

[RyanPF]

let me illustrate my point...

1. If he was in the same league of abilities as the rest of his tier, he wouldnt consistently be in the league of wolf when it comes to getting RESULTS.
Also, Sonic is one of those characters that forces other characters to alter their game plan as to how to fight him. Because if you dont, you tend to get wrecked.
Also... people dont know how to fight sonic?! I believe we have 2 different threads in our board that are DEVOTED to showing people how to BEAT sonic.

2. Yoshi is slightly worse than sonic.

He places high because he gets in people's heads. And you're absolutely right about wrecking people who can't adapt. >.> That's why he places high.

Have you gotten everyone in the entire Brawl competitive scene to read your threads and sign it? When you do, tell me and then I'll believe that everybody knows how to fight Sonic.

 

[Browny]

not knowing how to fight a character is a pitiful excuse for losing and most CERTAINLY should not be a consideration as to why characters place highly. that only applies to people who have never been to a tourney in thier life and get trashed by olimars or ice climbers.

I mean seriously, homour me, why is it sonic is the only character people seem to think places well because people dont know how to fight him. in my experience, it doesnt matter who im up against. be it olimars, MK, IC or captain falcon. its always the same. dont get hit, dont use laggy moves when landing, dont stale ko moves and punish Oos often. Why cant people apply this same mentality to sonic. How come I can do it, yet apparently others cant (only when theyre fighting sonic for the first time mind you)

 

[Deleted member]

He places high because he gets in people's heads. And you're absolutely right about wrecking people who can't adapt. >.> That's why he places high.

Have you gotten everyone in the entire Brawl competitive scene to read your threads and sign it? When you do, tell me and then I'll believe that everybody knows how to fight Sonic.

Dude dont be stupid. Sonic is definately better than yoshi, he has more options and better tools in many cases. Yoshi isnt better than PT either imo, though that is arguable.

Dont present dumb arguments about why sonic sucks, hes freaking good(ish).

See: Espy vs Le Thein.

 

[But-itzah-me!]

For the most part, this list is pretty accurate. I have been playing brawl pretty much non-stop since its midnight release, and this list is one of the few that have failed to irk me.

That being said, I am extremely happy to see Mr. G&W above Marth on the tier. However, someone needs to explain to me the logic behind DeDeDe being above Mr. G&W. I can space myself from that fat lard so easy it's just plain ridiculous.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Both R.O.B. and King Dedede went down =(. That is good though.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

That being said, I am extremely happy to see Mr. G&W above Marth on the tier. However, someone needs to explain to me the logic behind DeDeDe being above Mr. G&W. I can space myself from that fat lard so easy it's just plain ridiculous.

Aesthetically, you have the results. Dedede places high at a lot of tourneys, usually skirting somewhere along the top five. G'dub doesn't have as many high placings.

Play-wise, well...I'm not so sure about the G'dub matchup with DDD. My assumption is that the DDD spaces HIMSELF with b-airs and Waddle Spam. Plus DDD's f-tilt=showstopper, if used right. I keep thinking that G'dub still has a distinct advantage against DDD though...chiefly because of those ridiculous aerials and because of the fact DDD's size makes him so **** vulnerable. I dunno.

Smooth Criminal

 

[The Trump Card]

With all this talk of low tier characters moving up, I wonder if Mario will make it to E tier.

 

[§leepy God]

With all this talk of low tier characters moving up, I wonder if Mario will make it to E tier.

♪ Most likely, he might replace Shiek because not too many people I know that masters Shiek or ever do good with her in a tourney. Mario is of course one of those characters that need to be in the middle tier section because he's the most balance character of them all. ♪

 

[Red Arremer]

Problem is that, compared to all those good and excellent characters, average is just really down there.

 

[Judge Judy]

Problem is that, compared to all those good and excellent characters, average is just really down there.

Except Mario's edge game is anything but average.

 

[But-itzah-me!]

Except Mario's edge game is anything but average.

I one hundred percent, absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with you.

Mario's recovery was given massive doses of steroids when going from melee to brawl. Not only is his cape one of a kind, it is lethal. The ability to change momentum AND direction is almost O.P. in my opinion. But since I'm a Mario main, I'll just sit back and wait until everyone else catches up with reality and finds out just how potent that little plumber can be.

Not only are his aerials quick, but they are stage spike material!

Mario is the man with a plan.

Don't you forget it.

Don't forget that Mario > R.O.B. either...no matter what they say...

 

[Vorguen]

Another thing, Death. I think Yoshi will rise. Not too much, but he may just get out of f-tier from what I've heard and seen. His matchups against high-tier characters are good, he's got good recovery, he's got a good projectile, a good grab... I know he's got some bad points... But I think Yoshi will rise.

Yoshi's recovery is bad.

 

[Kitamerby]

Yoshi's recovery is bad.

Cue Lex Luthor.

I one hundred percent, absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with you.

Mario's recovery was given massive doses of steroids when going from melee to brawl. Not only is his cape one of a kind, it is lethal. The ability to change momentum AND direction is almost O.P. in my opinion. But since I'm a Mario main, I'll just sit back and wait until everyone else catches up with reality and finds out just how potent that little plumber can be.

Not only are his aerials quick, but they are stage spike material!

Mario is the man with a plan.

Don't you forget it.

Don't forget that Mario > R.O.B. either...no matter what they say...

Mario's recovery is still balls. He has amazing jumping ability, but not in Brawl. We already know how potent he can be. That's why we put him in low tier. :\


This discussion is now about how easy it'll be for Lucario to surpass Wario, ROB, and Diddy Kong and tear his way into top tier.

 

[Deathcarter]

Cue Lex Luthor.



Mario's recovery is still balls. He has amazing jumping ability, but not in Brawl. We already know how potent he can be. That's why we put him in low tier. :\


This discussion is now about how easy it'll be for Lucario to surpass Wario, ROB, and Diddy Kong and tear his way into top tier.

Well Wario is potentially Top tier already. Especially now that Wario users are playing more defensively with him, his only bad matchup is Marth (and maybe DDD). Going even with most of the Top Tier is VERY beneficial.

R.O.B. does better than Lucario against Snake, Diddy (imo), Falco, Marth, does just as well against G&W (which is badly), DDD, and MK and has a worse matchup against Wario. I just don't see Lucario usurping him likely. R.O.B. also has less flaws, the only one of which that is important is suspectability to juggling.

Diddy does better than Lucario against EVERYONE of the Top tier except Snake, Marth, and Falco (which is better for Lucario). Plus Diddy also has more sizable advantaged lower tiered matchups than Lucario. And Diddy has perhaps the most potential in his moveset of any character in the cast except maybe Snake.

Hell, it looks like Olimar will pass Lucario instead of Lucario moving up.

EDIT at Vorguen: Yoshi's recovery is not bad. Double Jump Airdodge protects Yoshi from almost everything.

 

[GwJ]

I still think ROB should be higher.

 

[Judge Judy]

Mario's recovery is still balls. He has amazing jumping ability, but not in Brawl. We already know how potent he can be. That's why we put him in low tier. :\

Mario's recovery distance is decent, but more importantly, it's safe. Anyway, Mario's edge game is clearly above average.

 

[RyanPF]

Dude dont be stupid. Sonic is definately better than yoshi, he has more options and better tools in many cases. Yoshi isnt better than PT either imo, though that is arguable.

Dont present dumb arguments about why sonic sucks, hes freaking good(ish).

See: Espy vs Le Thein.

I didn't say he sucks, I said that he's placing better than he deserves. And when it comes to arguing who is the best in F-tier, it's all opinions. They're all too close together.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I didn't say he sucks...

wellll...

He places high because he gets in people's heads. And you're absolutely right about wrecking people who can't adapt. >.> That's why he places high.

this sounds like you are saying he isnt a good character, and people just dont know how to fight him. Like he doesnt place well because hes actually a good character.

This is why people are getting at you

 

[RyanPF]

wellll...


this sounds like you are saying he isnt a good character, and people just dont know how to fight him. Like he doesnt place well because hes actually a good character.

This is why people are getting at you

I see... but being a good or bad character is relative, and in this situation I was talking about F-tier. He definitely doesn't suck in comparison to F-tier.