The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[ShadowLink84]

That's because she is a very good character.

.....
....

*homerun bats you in the head*

That is known as circular logic.

i.e. You know because you know.

 

[Bowser King]

That's because she is a very good character.

Great argument >_>

I don't know much on Zamus but I'm sue if you checked the video thread they have you could see a rough idea of how Zamus player's play.

-Bowser King

 

[BentoBox]

That's because she is a very good character.

Insightful.

-BentoBox

 

[Red Arremer]

Fine then.

Zamus' only real problem is that she lacks options of killing. But ROB has the same problem (although he has slightly more options then her). That and her recovery is a little bit predictable - Tether mixed together with the DownB jump.

She has good range in most of her moves, and is able to easily set up combos, especially in the air. So she can rack damage insanely fast. Zamus' aerial game is amazing. Her tilts are great, and so are her Smashes. The only bad moves would be FSmash and DAir. Although she has not that good throws, her grab is great, too.

She is fast, and very hard to predict - except you know she wants to kill you. Which is, as said, her main problem.

She is very very underused, considering how she needs a tons of precision (spiking and comboing), and she also takes a lot of time to properly use.

And, although that doesn't mean a lot to the tier list - she has insane mindgame potential.

Overall I'd say Zamus is one of the best characters in the game. Maybe not Top 10, but easily close to them.

 

[Bowser King]

Although she has not that good throws, her grab is great, too.

You have it the wrong way.

Grab=trash
Throw=decent/good

-Bowser King

 

[Red Arremer]

Ehh... nah. She has nice grab range, but her throws are not that useful. She normally has better options than a throw.

 

[Bowser King]

Ehh... nah. She has nice grab range, but her throws are not that useful. She normally has better options than a throw.

Grab Range=/= good grab

Ask any Zamus player or read the Weekly character discussion on Zamus and it's agreed that her grab is terrible (Overswarm and Deliciouscake agreed). Delicious also said that even though her grab is sub-par, her throws are pretty decent.

-Bowser King

 

[Red Arremer]

Hmm. I'm not much of a grabber with her, anyway, because - as said - she normally has better options.

But yea. The throws are not terrible, just not good.

 

[GPEternity]

I am too lazy to use the search function so im going to ask what has probably been asked a million times:

Ice Climbers have 0-Death chaingrabs on most of the cast correct? Rather they are chains that are ridiculously hard to get out of and often require the ice climber user to screw up the deathlock correct?

The tier list is a representation of the characters and how good they are overall relative to one another with the highest tier expected to win on average more games than lower tiers given similarly skilled players right?

In discussing matchups we take into consideration both characters taken to their maximum level by equally and highly skilled players right?

Well given both characters pushed to the limit, wouldn't a character have to be ungrabbable to have a positive matchup against the ICs? Given a player with technical perfection (or **** close to it) 1 grab = 1 death with ICs.

So the tier list and all the character matchups thus actually revolve around the metagame and do not actually reflect an ideal competitive situation right? Because ideally, any character that can't completely avoid being grabbed while still attacking the IC's is screwed.

 

[Lovely]

♪ I finally get a good answer of why Zero Suit Samus is almost high tier now. Oh well, I kind of play reguler Samus better, I don't know why.

Ice Climbers have 0-Death chaingrabs on most of the cast correct?

♪ Really? I thought Ice Climber can chain grab the whole cast.

 

[Red Arremer]

Regular Samus has an absolutely different playstyle than ZSS, and as said, Zamus needs a LOT of training and precision to get acceptably good with her - hence she is rather underrepresented. So I have no doubts you may find yourself having trouble playing as her.

And...
Afaik ICs have Infinites on the whole cast. Problem is that almost the whole cast has no to little trouble keeping the ICs away from grab range. Besides CGing and Desynching and whatnot require a lot of skill to get into and learn.
You have to know the whole cast's animations etc. before you can successfully infinite everyone.

Not to mention the ICs hardly have any tournament results.

 

[Browny]

what?

check the rankings thread, they are making a push for top tier. and learning the chaingrabs is not difficult at all i cant believe people still say that. they take a few hours to learn and the game has been out for what over a year now? you dont even need to infinite everyone, just do the 0 -> 50 -> ice block lock which is dead simple and grab -> charged usmash at about 100%

 

[Red Arremer]

Chaingrabs themselves not (*coughde3andfalcocough*), but with the ICs, I think it's a bit harder to pull of.

 

[Barge]

Chain grabs are easy as hell.
The only difficult ones are the flashy footstool/hobbling ones, which are useless when you could use easier more practical ones.

Hobbling is effective, but its too easy to mess up, you'd be better off taking a little more time to guarantee the next grab.
It's not that hard to adjust to a characters weight. And they're 9th in the character rankings now.

 

[Judge Judy]

what?

check the rankings thread, they are making a push for top tier. and learning the chaingrabs is not difficult at all i cant believe people still say that. they take a few hours to learn and the game has been out for what over a year now?

Actually, more like 10 months.

Spoiler

Unless you count Japan

 

[Red Arremer]

Chain grabs are easy as hell.
The only difficult ones are the flashy footstool/hobbling ones, which are useless when you could use easier more practical ones.

Hobbling is effective, but its too easy to mess up, you'd be better off taking a little more time to guarantee the next grab.
It's not that hard to adjust to a characters weight. And they're 9th in the character rankings now.

Ah, an IC main. Thanks for the clearup. I'm not too secure on them. And by the time the tierlist was released, the ICs weren't that high, right?

 

[Barge]

They've been middle in the rankings list for a while. But they're slowly ascending..

 

[Browny]

Actually, more like 10 months.

Spoiler

Unless you count Japan

brawl came out on jan 31 in japan didnt it?

plenty of people imported it, i know i was playing brawl by mid february here in aus

-lol just saw spoiler-

Anyway they arent slowly rising. theyre 7th ffs, above marth, G&W etc. If they are rising slow, theyd be above Snake if they were any faster in the course of a few months :/

 

[Red Arremer]

Yeah, just checked it - haven't in a while. They even managed to overtake Marth. Impressive.

 

[Omis]

They've been middle in the rankings list for a while. But they're slowly ascending..

Oh hay.

What makes Lucas so untourney viable? His moveset and matchups are not too horrid?

 

[Commander_Beef]

For one, I personally do not like this letter arrangement in the tiers and the Top/High/Middle/Low was better. If it going to stay like this, D and E need to combine and F and G need to combine.

 

[Barge]

For one, I personally do not like this letter arrangement in the tiers and the Top/High/Middle/Low was better. If it going to stay like this, D and E need to combine and F and G need to combine.

Well, it's just to get a better understanding of the characters "level".
Each tier seperates a noticeable distance in a characters overall level of play.

Which is why snake and metaknight have their own tier.

 

[GPEternity]

Oh hay.

What makes Lucas so untourney viable? His moveset and matchups are not too horrid?

His moveset probably factors into his matchups, and he is ruled out because his matchups are indeed believed to be horrid.

 

[Scott!]

Poor Lucas. He's a lot of fun, but without a big change, he's never going to be great. It's too bad, really.

 

[Vorguen]

Key words, "not too horrid". Yeah they aren't terrible, but when you think about it they aren't particularly awesome either.

 

[Red Arremer]

Well, it's just to get a better understanding of the characters "level".
Each tier seperates a noticeable distance in a characters overall level of play.

Which is why snake and metaknight have their own tier.

Wrooooooong. =3

The digits next to the characters is the average number of votes they got. Everyone agrees that Meta Knight is the best, so he has 15 points.
So the tier gaps are parts where the average votes have resulted in them being a bit further apart.

Key words, "not too horrid". Yeah they aren't terrible, but when you think about it they aren't particularly awesome either.

I dunno, aren't there a bunch of characters higher on the tier list (I can't say High Tier anymore ;-; ) that totally **** Lucas? Like, G&W I know of has an 80:20 MU to him.

 

[Vorguen]

Yes, I was merely referring to his moveset. It's just below average. Even most low-tier characters have good overall movesets or at least enough decent moves to get by without using their bad ones. Look at Mario, awesome throw set ups to juggle combos. Samus has good projectile pressure. Sonic has.......... that spin thing.

 

[Bowser King]

I dunno, aren't there a bunch of characters higher on the tier list (I can't say High Tier anymore ;-; ) that totally **** Lucas? Like, G&W I know of has an 80:20 MU to him.

There are supposedly 4-5 characters that **** him.
There's a thread on it in the lucas boards.

-Bowser King

 

[BBoyindo]

Peach.
I think she's gonna rise in the next tier list. She rose five spots already, and i think she will move above pit and possibly others too.
Thoughts?

 

[Frown]

Peach.
I think she's gonna rise in the next tier list. She rose five spots already, and i think she will move above pit and possibly others too.
Thoughts?

no

needs moar range

 

[Deathcarter]

There are supposedly 4-5 characters that **** him.
There's a thread on it in the lucas boards.

-Bowser King

The only characters that **** him according to the Lucas boards are G&W (80:20), DK (75:25), Marth (70:30), and Meta Knight (65:35)

Peach.
I think she's gonna rise in the next tier list. She rose five spots already, and i think she will move above pit and possibly others too.
Thoughts?

She'll move above Pit, that is for sure. But ask yourself this, how many advantages does Peach have? She ***** Olimar and beats all of the E/F/G tiers with the exception of Zelda. Not much else. Most characters already above her have both better matchups against the top tiers as they kill better, string damage better, and can counteract the top tier's options better, and also serve as counterpicks more often against some of the tournament characters.

 

[Kinzer]

Nah, Meta Knight is fine, Sonic has the same matchup against him, but we still do okay.

P.S. Peach ain't dropping anytime soon now.

 

[Bowser King]

The only characters that **** him according to the Lucas boards are G&W (80:20), DK (75:25), Marth (70:30), and Meta Knight (65:35)

Which is 4

MK's not to bad but seeing how popular MK is it still factors in.

-Bowser King

 

[Nicole]

So this is probably kind of a dumb question, but what tiers are viable for a low-tier tournament? Is it just F and G, or is E included as well?

 

[Xiivi]

Really "low-tiers" is dead at this point.

Now with the new tier divisions you can have a "G Tier" tournament, or a "EFG Tier" Tournament, "FG", "DEFG", etc...

Whatever you think would be most fun.

 

[Deathcarter]

Lets get some controversy in here. This is what I am going to think are going to be the next E/F/G tiers as those parts seems less defined and have more room for change.

E Tier
-Luigi (Don't Know if he should move to D tier)
-Bowser or Fox (Can't choose)
-Bowser or Fox (See above)
-Shiek (See Zelda)
-Zelda (I just beleive Shiek is better as she seems more viable for counterpicking IMO)
-Ness (Ness seems to be more well off when facing characters in B/C/D tier; he looks like he even has advantages against characters higher than him which only Mario can also attest to as far as characters below the boy)
-Ike
-Mario

F Tier
-Pokemon Trainer (Not that good but has a lot of strengths that other F tiers don't have)
-Sonic (Not getting out of F tier )
-Yoshi (See Sonic)
-Lucas (Very run of the mill)
-Ganondorf (Ganon is DEADLY when played patiently; he simply rewards you too much for outsmarting your opponent)
-Link
-Jigglypuff

G Tier
-Captain Falcon
-Samus (When you have a worse close combat game than Falcon, you know you suck)

This is what I think the lower tiers should be (at this time anyway).

 

[-Mars-]

Samus will never be the worst character in the game due to her zair and recovery alone.

 

[Justblaze647]

I'd put PT over Ike, at least.

PT is an excellent character (or set of characters), imo.

 

[GwJ]

Samus is definitely not below Falcon. She's at least one tier above. Her projectiles, Zair, and Recovery prevents that.

 

[Justblaze647]

Her projectiles

imo, her projectiles suck hard cold monkey eggs.