The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Tenki]

No. Just no. This is entirely incorrect.

Some characters are much, much better at mindgames than others. The more maneuverable you are, the better you tend to be at them, for instance. Other attacks can also set up mindgames - projectile spam, for instance, as well as Snake's mines. Some characters have high mindgame potential, others low, so it is indeed a part of a character.

Mindgames in and of themselves are purely a player-based issue, and as far as I'm concerned, it's just performing an action to get your opponent to do a desired action. More correctly stated, some characters have more options, or more effective options for certain mindgames than others.

Take dashes for example - Sonic's running speed and 'screech stop'/side-B cancel can be used to bait an attack from the front, and punish the after lag. Ike's running speed is perfect for punishing a spotdodge by running across the opponent and performing a pivot grab from behind. Obviously, their dash speeds are too different to interchange those baits/punishments, though arguably Sonic can do a reverse side-B shield cancel grab to 'slow down' his grab (since normally, if you tried to run behind and pivot grab, Sonic would end up running past and pivot grabbing before the spotdodge ends).

As for Falcon, though it is true that if you have high accuracy and actually land your hits, Falcon seems like an amazing character, I'm not entirely sure what kind of 'mindgames' he'd be generally reliant on, aside from punishing spotdodges, and airdodges, since that's what everyone seems to do whenever you land a U-air and jump towards your opponent...lol

This isn't what a tier list is. A tier list is not about the popularity of characters but their effectiveness. A very effective but very difficult to learn character may be very high on a tier list, but that doesn't mean that they are particularly common to face - simply that someone who can play the character has a character advantage over a lot of the field.

I think that might just have been a personal application/example.

If your area has alot of tier whores, you're most likely going to meet more high/top tier characters.

 

[Teran]

No. Just no. This is entirely incorrect.

Some characters are much, much better at mindgames than others. The more maneuverable you are, the better you tend to be at them, for instance. Other attacks can also set up mindgames - projectile spam, for instance, as well as Snake's mines. Some characters have high mindgame potential, others low, so it is indeed a part of a character.

Some characters have better tools than others to perform said "mindgames". It all boils down to a battle of options. It's Falcon's lack of options that make him so poor. It's Falco's massive variety of options that make him so good. It's the effectiveness of Meta Knight's options that make him so tough. The problem with using mindgames is that they can't really be quantified or used as solid evidence.
I personally believe Snake > Meta Knight because of the way he can force errors so well with his stage control and traps, but then everyone would argue that at the top level of play, you can't take errors into account...

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Some characters have better tools than others to perform said "mindgames". It all boils down to a battle of options. It's Falcon's lack of options that make him so poor. It's Falco's massive variety of options that make him so good. It's the effectiveness of Meta Knight's options that make him so tough. The problem with using mindgames is that they can't really be quantified or used as solid evidence.
I personally believe Snake > Meta Knight because of the way he can force errors so well with his stage control and traps, but then everyone would argue that at the top level of play, you can't take errors into account...

If you did take errors into account, Ike would be hiring by punishing errors with Fsmash.

 

[Marine Snow]

Did you guys really need two tiers dedicated to only one character a piece?

That's just silly.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Did you guys really need two tiers dedicated to only one character a piece?

That's just silly.

That's how it was voted on. Deal with it. For your second post here, consider that.

 

[Kinzer]

First, but yeah.

If it really bothers you, just mix them in your head... it's what I do.

 

[CRASHiC]

If you did take errors into account, Ike would be hiring by punishing errors with Fsmash.

Where can I put in my application? I need a job.

 

[Marine Snow]

That's how it was voted on. Deal with it.

But it's only a 1.1 point difference. That hardly justifies a different category.

For your second post here, consider that.

Because the importance of someone's opinion whether it be insightful or terrible relies on how many posts they have, right?

Oh wait.

 

[BBoyindo]

It's not that your not important, its just that for your second post, your criticizing on something you obviously don't know much about, and saying were silly.

I mean

That's just silly.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

It's not that your not important, its just that for your second post, your criticizing on something you obviously don't know much about, and saying were silly.

This.

Aesthetic complaints aside, if you have gripes about who is where on this list...

Smooth Criminal

 

[Blackshadow]

Because the importance of someone's opinion whether it be insightful or terrible relies on how many posts they have, right?

Oh wait.

Maybe not on how many posts someone has, but if someone is from 4chan, then yes, your opinion is not important. Also, go back there.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

Mindgames in and of themselves are purely a player-based issue, and as far as I'm concerned, it's just performing an action to get your opponent to do a desired action. More correctly stated, some characters have more options, or more effective options for certain mindgames than others.

By this "reasoning", EVERYTHING is purely player based.

But the reality is that it isn't. Some characters are better suited for mindgames than others, and are better at doing them than others.

Some characters have better tools than others to perform said "mindgames". It all boils down to a battle of options. It's Falcon's lack of options that make him so poor. It's Falco's massive variety of options that make him so good. It's the effectiveness of Meta Knight's options that make him so tough. The problem with using mindgames is that they can't really be quantified or used as solid evidence.

How good a character is isn't really quanitifable, so any argument about the quanitification of a character is wrong. The tier lists are inherently qualification of things which aren't directly quantifiable.

It would be wrong to disregard an important factor.

But it's only a 1.1 point difference. That hardly justifies a different category.

Actually, it does indeed merit a different tier, seeing as it is much larger than the average tier list in their ranking, and even if you get rid of some of the extra tiers its still a bigger gap than real divisions which should remain.

Maybe not on how many posts someone has, but if someone is from 4chan, then yes, your opinion is not important. Also, go back there.

Seriously?

You are worthless because you think being on 4chan has anything to do with how worthwhile someone's opinion is. Indeed, 4chan has many bright people, far more than Smashboards does.

Grow a sense of humor.

 

[nice1]

yay falco moved up

 

[Dokutayuu]

yay falco moved up

I wasn't sure that his movement upwards was a good idea at first but after toying around with Falco for a little, I can see why.

For someone being called a clone of Fox, he plays pretty differently. His f-smash is pretty fun.

 

[GwJ]

But it's only a 1.1 point difference. That hardly justifies a different category.

Yes it does. Out of 5 points, 1.1 is a little over 20%. That means that currently on the tier list, MK is supposedly 20% better than Snake. Supposedly.

Now if there's two cars: One car gets a 4 star rating and another gets a 5 star ratings, that's enough for a big separation.

 

[BBoyindo]

Yes it does. Out of 5 points, 1.1 is a little over 20%. That means that currently on the tier list, MK is supposedly 20% better than Snake. Supposedly.

Now if there's two cars: One car gets a 4 star rating and another gets a 5 star ratings, that's enough for a big separation.

It's out of fifteen points...

 

[Barge]

Should have at least put metaknight and snake in the same tier.

 

[Red Arremer]

Yes it does. Out of 5 points, 1.1 is a little over 20%. That means that currently on the tier list, MK is supposedly 20% better than Snake. Supposedly.

No.

The numbers have nothing to do with their placing. The 15 means that all SBRoomers agreed that MK is the best character in the game. The digit next to him doesn't mean anything else.

Should have at least put metaknight and snake in the same tier.

That I agree with...

 

[Greg3527]

I don't feel that a tier list is necessary. Your skill depends on how you play not who you play as.

 

[Red Arremer]

I don't feel that a tier list is necessary. Your skill depends on how you play not who you play as.

... God, how I love such unqualified comments like that.

 

[Barge]

I don't feel that a tier list is necessary. Your skill depends on how you play not who you play as.

A tier list only lists which characters are better than others.

It has nothing to do with how good someone is.

-_-

 

[DQP]

why do my mains always have t obe so near the bottom

 

[GwJ]

Because you play fun characters.

 

[ZesuBen]

A tier list is a mixture between opinion and data. Don't follow it religiously, or I'll kick you.
Hard.

 

[TP]

A tier list is a mixture between opinion and data. Don't follow it religiously, or I'll kick you.
Hard.

Hey everyone, this guy just joined the forum this month. Therefore, he understands the decision making of the leaders of this forum and can teach the rest of us how to comprehend it. It's a good thing we have people like ZesuBen here to play their part.

 

[Barge]

Hey everyone, this guy just joined the forum this month. Therefore, he understands the decision making of the leaders of this forum and can teach the rest of us how to comprehend it. It's a good thing we have people like ZesuBen here to play their part.

Is that sarcasm?

 

[TP]

Is that sarcasm?

Yes. Was yours?

I hate the internet.

 

[Barge]

You should've put a -_- at the end of your post. I would have understood if it was sarcasm then.
No my post was not sarcastic. Because I don't really think join date matters.
There is some truth to his post. You shouldn't like....worship a tier list.

 

[RyanPF]

Hey everyone, this guy just joined the forum this month. Therefore, he understands the decision making of the leaders of this forum and can teach the rest of us how to comprehend it. It's a good thing we have people like ZesuBen here to play their part.

What is it with people and disregarding people's statements because of their join date? He wasn't born that day. Why treat him like that?

 

[TP]

What is it with people and disregarding people's statements because of their join date? He wasn't born that day. Why treat him like that?

I actually agreed with his statement, ironically. In certain areas, join date is irrelevant. It doesn't affect skill or even knowledge of the game. However, it does affect his understanding of this forum, and that includes official aspects of the forum such as this tier list. However, his join date was not why I replied negatively, it was just another little thing. The main thing is that his point, a reasonable one, has been said hundreds of times in this thread and thousands of times elsewhere. If his post had just been "In my opinion, the tier list can't be completely accurate because it is made by people and is thus opinionated" then I would have said nothing. However, he said (paraphrasing) "The tier list is flawed because it is opinionated. If you disagree with me you are wrong and you deserve punishment for being wrong." You can't point out the obvious and then act superior to others for it.

 

[Barge]

I actually agreed with his statement, ironically. In certain areas, join date is irrelevant. It doesn't affect skill or even knowledge of the game. However, it does affect his understanding of this forum, and that includes official aspects of the forum such as this tier list. However, his join date was not why I replied negatively, it was just another little thing. The main thing is that his point, a reasonable one, has been said hundreds of times in this thread and thousands of times elsewhere. If his post had just been "In my opinion, the tier list can't be completely accurate because it is made by people and is thus opinionated" then I would have said nothing. However, he said (paraphrasing) "The tier list is flawed because it is opinionated. If you disagree with me you are wrong and you deserve punishment for being wrong." You can't point out the obvious and then act superior to others for it.

In my opinion I viewed his post as a "You shouldn't worship the tier list, its not always accurate. Besides it's just a list, its not going to change how you play your game"

 

[TP]

In my opinion I viewed his post as a "You shouldn't worship the tier list, its not always accurate. Besides it's just a list, its not going to change how you play your game"

You are probably right. At any rate, I don't like arguments, so I'm out of here. Sorry if I offended anyone or something.

 

[RyanPF]

I actually agreed with his statement, ironically. In certain areas, join date is irrelevant. It doesn't affect skill or even knowledge of the game. However, it does affect his understanding of this forum, and that includes official aspects of the forum such as this tier list. However, his join date was not why I replied negatively, it was just another little thing. The main thing is that his point, a reasonable one, has been said hundreds of times in this thread and thousands of times elsewhere. If his post had just been "In my opinion, the tier list can't be completely accurate because it is made by people and is thus opinionated" then I would have said nothing. However, he said (paraphrasing) "The tier list is flawed because it is opinionated. If you disagree with me you are wrong and you deserve punishment for being wrong." You can't point out the obvious and then act superior to others for it.

True. The thing about his join date just threw me off.

 

[DarkPikmin]

Join date shouldn't matter. You could have been lurking around the forum for the last 9 months and make an account just to reply to a post . You would have an understanding of the forum. OH SHI- *divides by zero*

 

[Milos]

shut up 08er

 

[DarkPikmin]

Ok 07er I'll behave.

 

[Milos]

kthx .

 

[M.K]

*awesome face* Boy, am I glad I joined in 2007.
*Happy, orgasmic, eltist thumbs up*

Ok so...lets discuss Ike.
I think he has reached the very pinnacle of his competitive potential. I can only see him going down from here.

 

[YagamiLight]

Ok so...lets discuss Ike.
I think he has reached the very pinnacle of his competitive potential. I can only see him going down from here.

There was once a time when you would have received a scathing reply from me and a list of recent Ike discoveries.

Now though..now...

I'm just going to shake my head and walk away.

 

[Judge Judy]

There was once a time when you would have received a scathing reply from me and a list of recent Ike discoveries.

Now though..now...

I'm just going to shake my head and walk away.

Still, do you think we'll be seeing Mario move above Ike?