The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[ShadowLink84]

Oh, so you mean to tell me that Sonic being able to **** with his opponents minds better than Ganondorf when dashing is simply player dependent and not character dependent? That's a load of ****.

Except that ISN'T WHAT IT MEANS!
You are being inaccurate in your understanding.

It isn't that his mindgame potential is a direct result.

His mingame potential stems from his ability to keep his options open.
Those options are character dependent. the mindgames that result are player dependent.

it isn't just Sonic dashing around that causes the mindgame. That's far from it.
It is because you have all these options.
Its because of those options that those mindgames exist. So your opponent has to deal with a guessing game.

This is very similar to Captain Falcon in melee, when he was dash dancing, you weren't sure what he would do because he had all those options available to him and when you mde an error in judgment, you were punished.

Having all those options leads to the mindgames, its not like the mindgames themselves are a direct result.

This is why when you are in a Sonic ditto, they take FOREVER, because both players have so many options before them and both players have the ability to deal with them in an equal manner.

The mindgames themselves are player dependent.
The option that are behind them, that then cause the opponent to play a guessing game are character dependent.
Am I clear now or do you not understand?


So if I am aproaching with Sonic, i can do sideB Cancel then OOS uair.
Or I can dash grab or dash shield grab.
Or side B cancel to another side B.
I have tons of options available, you, as my opponent have to guess and thats where the mindgames appear.

I is very similar to Captain Falcon dash dancing in melee, he has lots of options available to you, its not like he is causing you to make a mistake.


tl;dr; The ability to keep his options open are character dependent. The mindgames that result are player dependent.

 

[.Marik]

SmashBoards is serious ****ing business.

 

[Brinzy]

I understand perfectly well what you're saying. Falling for that stuff is a player mistake.

That said, my original point was that Sonic is effective at causing this because of the reasons you so valiantly outlined and that Falcon is not as effective at this because he has less options to work with. I don't see why I have to play semantics and separate Sonic and screwing with his opponent with all of those words when it was pretty much understood that Sonic is one of the best characters for forcing those mistakes.

Also, of course there's more than dashing, but the original point made was about Falcon's speed, and my point was that while his dash is good, his attacks are not cutting it as well. Sonic himself DOES carry better tools than most to cause people to fall for ****. If you deny this, then you are alluding to me that Ganondorf's speed is not an issue for him to force mistakes to get hits (the original reason why we're having this conversation in the first place).

In short, while what you're saying is true, it's not disproving anything I'm saying. If anything, it's proving my point about why Sonic is better at it than Falcon, so I don't see what message you're trying to get across that I haven't seen/figured out yet.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Its not that you are wrong or anything. Its that you are half right in the way you are looking at it.
Saying Sonic has high mindgame potential is inaccurate, because that is saying that Sonic causes mindgames.
All thats really happening is that sonic has his options open.
So its more like one is caused by the other.
Rather than a direct relationship that you are implying.

SmashBoards is serious ****ing business.

I come off as very serious though, internet sucks at conveying tone.

 

[Brinzy]

Well if I chose the wrong words, then I'm sorry for the confusion, but I view Sonic -> player's control -> messing with the opponent as Sonic -> messing with the opponent.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Its not that you are wrong or anything. Its that you are half right in the way you are looking at it.
Saying Sonic has high mindgame potential is inaccurate, because that is saying that Sonic causes mindgames.
All thats really happening is that sonic has his options open.
So its more like one is caused by the other.
Rather than a direct relationship that you are implying.

who really cares which causes which or which direction the flowchart moves. it doesnt really matter, since the end result is the same.

if you are going to argue about something the least you could do is not argue with the few people that agree with you to begin with

 

[woody72691]

this tier list shouldnt ever really matter. but people somehow believe that this matters when the player makes the character

 

[FrankPizzi]

I think Mario should of gone lower. :/

 

[woody72691]

if everyone at nintendo had their way. mario would probally be number one on this tier list,.

 

[kr3wman]

if everyone at nintendo had their way. mario would probally be number one on this tier list,.

Maybe. But you know, alot of nintendo characters are in super smash bros, so you never know.

 

[ShadowLink84]

who really cares which causes which or which direction the flowchart moves. it doesnt really matter, since the end result is the same.

if you are going to argue about something the least you could do is not argue with the few people that agree with you to begin with

It was an issue on the way things were being said.
in short a misunderstanding

Stop poking your nose in things that are not of your concern smart one.

 

[Maniclysane]

Also, Jigglypuff's Pound has more hitbox frames than it should. Srsly <_<

No johns. Ice Climbers chain grabs do more damage than they should.

 

[Uno]

Having not played Brawl since the first couple of months I find the most interesting placing is Falco. Someone want to explain to me what has happened with some of his metagame?

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Well, his Lasers reminds you why life sucks. It leads into many things, and He can outcamp anyone with Lasers and Shine.

He also has a CG to Spike on 90% of the cast. It also can lead to like 0- 65%

Well, those are the major changes really.
I may be missing some stuff, as I do not main Falco.

 

[woody72691]

yeah i'm getting so sick of hearing that ice climbers and DDD should be higher all because they can infinite chain grab. big deal.

 

[:mad:]

Infinites are guaranteed losses. It IS a big deal.

 

[woody72691]

its cheap. thats really what i have to say about it.

 

[:mad:]

lololololololol.
There's nothing cheap about it.

 

[woody72691]

if u are the one getting it!! but when your doing it, its not!!! i like doing the marth one. i saw it in one of the combo vids

 

[:mad:]

No, there's nothing cheap about using something to your advantage. Going into a match knowing you'll be infinited is just stupid.

 

[woody72691]

thats why u pick someone like lucario or samus

 

[Kinzer]

I don't know why you would want to go Samus but okay...

 

[Red Arremer]

Heh. Samus and Lucario, both disadvantegous matchups against Dedede.

 

[woody72691]

projectiles. matchups dont matter. cause i say agin. player makes the character

 

[Kinzer]

I have yet to see a Samus win against the likes of a D3 who knows about the standing CG or a MK.

 

[woody72691]

because there havent been matches i've seen with those two. anyways CF should move up one or two spots and MK , y?

 

[:mad:]

Nah, Captain Falcon is awful. Doomed to dead last. Forever.

 

[Red Arremer]

projectiles. matchups dont matter. cause i say agin. player makes the character

lol.

I wish that was true, haha.

Dedede has projectiles too, by the way. And matchups matter. They really do. If they really don't, then please show me a good Sheik playing against a Ganon - that's a 90:10 Matchup.

because there havent been matches i've seen with those two.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229906 <- Xyro, one of the best Samus players, vs. Mew2King (with MK)

 

[Kinzer]

because there havent been matches i've seen with those two.

And you won't ever see the former because any Samus main who knows their stuff is not going to play the matchup with her... in her Powersuit form anyway.

 

[Brinzy]

yeah i'm getting so sick of hearing that ice climbers and DDD should be higher all because they can infinite chain grab. big deal.

its cheap. thats really what i have to say about it.

if u are the one getting it!! but when your doing it, its not!!! i like doing the marth one. i saw it in one of the combo vids

thats why u pick someone like lucario or samus [to deal with DDD]

projectiles. matchups dont matter. cause i say agin. player makes the character

You've got a lot to learn.

 

[kr3wman]

Don't think he wants to.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Don't think he ever will. Once a scrub, always a scrub.

 

[BentoBox]

Why you guys are wasting your time with this guy is beyond me D:

 

[Red Arremer]

I guess it's some naive kind of hope. I dunno. :3

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Why you guys are wasting your time with this guy is beyond me D:

Boredom? It's always funny to watch illogical and clueless people try to defend their incorrect ideas with false/made up facts and data.

 

[SmashChu]

OK, straight up, everyone in that last conversation was pretty fail,....

Don't think he ever will. Once a scrub, always a scrub.

Why you guys are wasting your time with this guy is beyond me D:

...especially you two.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Boredom? It's always funny to watch illogical and clueless people try to defend their incorrect ideas with false/made up facts and data.

Anyone besides me remember that Pikafan*insert numbers here* guy? "super gud don b maks u ded" Heheh, priceless.

 

[BentoBox]

OK, straight up, everyone in that last conversation was pretty fail,....




...especially you two.

www.lenscrafters.com/

They can help, it's ok.

 

[Darknid]

so..who else thinks Diddy and Wario belong above Marth and GnW

 

[kirbywizard]

so..who else thinks Diddy and Wario belong above Marth and GnW

Marth Range is just to good, and G and W controls ground/air pretty well, Diddy and Wario shall never score higher then Marth and GW