The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

[PEACE7]

Hai,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRlQtF8ojA#t=1m10s

Critique?

You could of probably fair out jumped or airdodge out of that lol

 

[SKidd]

I was trying to Dolphin Slash and it didn't even work.




I guess Falcon is JUST THAT GOOD.

 

[∫unk]

falcon can gimp marth... be careful or you will suffer terrible ego damage

 

[Gunblade789]

I love you all!!!

 

[Joemama8]

Hey Guys,

I am a sonic main, but I have recently picked up Marth in an attempt to have a solid High-tier second. I was hoping to get some good feedback about the things I am doing right as well as the things I am doing wrong.

Rogue Blades (Marth) vs Taku (Peach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc16vRM_tRc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSlYWzGbQzk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlW-jPQggd8&feature=related

Thanks guys

 

[clowsui]

joe learn how to use your sword. threaten the opponent by hitting them and making them think you're going to hit them, none of this stupid business w/ DB1/empty hops etc

 

[Joemama8]

Lol, helpful as always chi...

Still though, I do need to just use the entire DB instead of DB1....

 

[Cygnet]

Hello! I'm (still) new to tournaments and the competitive scene (finally have 1 tournament under my belt.... ~_~)

I would really appreciate critique on a recent friendly of mine here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z_yh0bWZbQ&feature=related

I have trouble knowing what I did wrong and what I can do to improve when I watch it myself (I have the same problem even when I watch pro videos T___T), so can anyone tell me what exactly I did wrong and what I can fix to get better for next time? Or even how to learn from videos in general?

I can see that people get hit sometimes, but not what led up to it or how they were put in that bad position to begin with.

Thank you very much in advance!

 

[Akashi]

I haven't posted here in awhile, but I finally decided to record something of mine from a recent tournament.

Round 1 winners, match 2 (1 wasn't recorded, I won)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Xg...unIA73_Vc5UlHk4AaCXTP1yogyBWt0o&feature=inbox

I know I win, but it wasn't solidly, so any critique would be appreciated. Also, I should really get some new matches of me playing Fox.... for the life of me I don't understand how to fight him when he's running away ?_?

Thanks

 

[PEACE7]

Start Z catching the nades and throwing them back and at 2:14 that was a shieldbreak right there, at 3:15 you should of sideB1 to stall you would of avoided that nade you got hit with when you Ds, at 4:00 that was a grab you just stood there lol. Nice match and nice marth fun to watch

 

[C.J.]

Start Z catching the nades and throwing them back and at 2:14 that was a shieldbreak right there, at 3:15 you should of sideB1 to stall you would of avoided that nade you got hit with when you Ds, at 4:00 that was a grab you just stood there lol. Nice match and nice marth fun to watch

Why would you Z-catch and throw them back... Just instant throw, lol. It's faster.

 

[PEACE7]

Why would you Z-catch and throw them back... Just instant throw, lol. It's faster.

Yea thats what I meant

 

[Akashi]

Start Z catching the nades and throwing them back and at 2:14 that was a shieldbreak right there, at 3:15 you should of sideB1 to stall you would of avoided that nade you got hit with when you Ds, at 4:00 that was a grab you just stood there lol. Nice match and nice marth fun to watch

Thanks for the critique! I should start instant throwing nades back more, but I just hate how long it takes Marth to forward throw. To me, it's not even an instant throw... it's like he's winding up in a pop-eye~esque way <_<;. But I totally agree

3:15 was nerves, I completely agree with you though. And I wish I had the insight to throw out safe Shield Breakers against Snake... he's a scary character to whiff attacks on, obviously, so I definitely hesitate. I'll try incorporating more hard reads against him

Thanks again for the critique!:D

 

[Cygnet]

Sorry for being impatient, but I would really appreciate any and all help!

Hello! I'm (still) new to tournaments and the competitive scene (finally have 1 tournament under my belt.... ~_~)

I would really appreciate critique on a recent friendly of mine here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z_yh0bWZbQ&feature=related

I have trouble knowing what I did wrong and what I can do to improve when I watch it myself (I have the same problem even when I watch pro videos T___T), so can anyone tell me what exactly I did wrong and what I can fix to get better for next time? Or even how to learn from videos in general?

I can see that people get hit sometimes, but not what led up to it or how they were put in that bad position to begin with.

Thank you very much in advance!

 

[Jeos]

for what I saw, you game is very solid and the only problem you had was against snake's proyectiles and traps.

you always need to pay attention to them and practice how to deal with grenades acordingly.
also you always need to memorize the place of the C4 and when he uses D-smash, after you die, the first thing you should do is to explode it whit your invicibility initial frames.

also, better offstage game, it was average but can be better

 

[ScareMl]

if you guys have the chance, please give me as much critique as possible. i need to know what im doing right and what i'm doing wrong and what i can improve on. I tried to find videos where i lost, but there's not that many good players i can practice with, so this is pretty close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOX5FZKk78w

 

[rahsosprout]

To be honest, that Falco was really bad. I'd rather critique him lol. Didn't see a single SHDL or jab (frame 2!) and it didn't seem like he had played Marth before (he used dair 4 times in a row over the stage during his 2nd stock) so it's really hard to compare when the skill gap is so large.
Try going to some match making chat rooms (AiB) and find good opponents esp. in matchups where Marth struggles.

Anyways, DS is a great punisher but I feel like you used it at the wrong times. It should be used to punish moves OoS preferably after a PS or during a multi-hit move. Picking BF helps avoid punishment cuz of the platforms. Always fast fall it if you miss.

You should SHFF fairs while spacing them properly. If you spaced the fair correctly, a dtilt followup ends up being spaced well too and if you somehow just barely the miss the dtilt, a fsmash from that distance is sure to tip. (more dtilt!) You also need to work on your DI. DI perpendicular to the launch direction and then fast fall a fair and then jump to corner or SB back towards the stage.

I noticed you were getting hit a lot with Falco's phantasm back onto the stage. I've seen Mr. R punish that move a lot with a full/double hop reverse SB. Also practice PSing the lasers. It's honestly not that hard especially since your opponent was not mixing it up at all.

In round 3 vs. Falco, on his last stock, you whiffed at least 8 grabs and at one point it was very obvious you were going exclusively for a grab. Besides the Fthrow chain at low % and the fthrow>fsmash from 0-3% all the other follows-ups can be DIed so don't try to rely too much on them.

Try to mix up some of your approach options. You approach almost exclusively with a nair. Mix it up with SHFF fair, SH double fair, SHAD behind opponent, etc.

Here's a good example from one of Mr. R's matches (I learn so much from watching his matches <3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5YNOeJwllU

 

[ScareMl]

To be honest, that Falco was really bad. I'd rather critique him lol. Didn't see a single SHDL or jab (frame 2!) and it didn't seem like he had played Marth before (he used dair 4 times in a row over the stage during his 2nd stock) so it's really hard to compare when the skill gap is so large.
Try going to some match making chat rooms (AiB) and find good opponents esp. in matchups where Marth struggles.

Anyways, DS is a great punisher but I feel like you used it at the wrong times. It should be used to punish moves OoS preferably after a PS or during a multi-hit move. Picking BF helps avoid punishment cuz of the platforms. Always fast fall it if you miss.

You should SHFF fairs while spacing them properly. If you spaced the fair correctly, a dtilt followup ends up being spaced well too and if you somehow just barely the miss the dtilt, a fsmash from that distance is sure to tip. (more dtilt!) You also need to work on your DI. DI perpendicular to the launch direction and then fast fall a fair and then jump to corner or SB back towards the stage.

I noticed you were getting hit a lot with Falco's phantasm back onto the stage. I've seen Mr. R punish that move a lot with a full/double hop reverse SB. Also practice PSing the lasers. It's honestly not that hard especially since your opponent was not mixing it up at all.

In round 3 vs. Falco, on his last stock, you whiffed at least 8 grabs and at one point it was very obvious you were going exclusively for a grab. Besides the Fthrow chain at low % and the fthrow>fsmash from 0-3% all the other follows-ups can be DIed so don't try to rely too much on them.

Try to mix up some of your approach options. You approach almost exclusively with a nair. Mix it up with SHFF fair, SH double fair, SHAD behind opponent, etc.

Here's a good example from one of Mr. R's matches (I learn so much from watching his matches <3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5YNOeJwllU

yah i know he was bad, but he plays too much black ops and not enough brawl, anyway, when i spot-dodge his grab, i usually up-b right after cuz it's punishable. so that's the wrong time to use it?

haha yah i need to work on PS and DI and i'll work on getting grabs down.

Your tip about mixing up approaching options was really helpful actually, i didn't know what else to approach falco with so thank you for that.

Overall, i appreciate your advice and i'll keep practicing. Thanks!

 

[rahsosprout]

Falco's grab is 29 frames (grabs on frame 6). Your spot dodge is 24 frames (invincible 2-20). DS hitbox comes out on frame 5.

Looking at frame data, it's not exactly the safest move especially if you are spot dodging on reaction. I personally prefer punishing with DB since less risk and 1 frame faster (hitbox out frame 4).
DS can get you punished really hard if you whiff it.

EDIT: I remember in one of Pierce's threads recommending that novice Marth's (myself included) use less DS because we tend to use it too much and often in the wrong situations. I save it almost exclusively for laggy or multi hits on your shield as a decent OoS punisher. The only other time is if I'm playing on BF and I'm under the central platform. Then I use it a lot more often since it's much harder to punish when I land on the platform afterwards.

 

[Nike.]

Lost a close one to K Prime. I put my heart and soul into winning the set.
He ended up winning the tourney and made $178 lol.
Except for letting myself get hit by jolts, let me know what I need to work on

Winners Semis (HD): Nike vs K Prime
[Match 1]
[Match 2]
[Match 3]

 

[Cygnet]

for what I saw, you game is very solid and the only problem you had was against snake's proyectiles and traps.

you always need to pay attention to them and practice how to deal with grenades acordingly.
also you always need to memorize the place of the C4 and when he uses D-smash, after you die, the first thing you should do is to explode it whit your invicibility initial frames.

also, better offstage game, it was average but can be better

Thank you very much, Jeos!

How exactly do you hit Snake without hitting his grenade at the same time? :/

 

[Reizilla]

Damn, that was close, Nike! Good job.

 

[Jeos]

Thank you very much, Jeos!

How exactly do you hit Snake without hitting his grenade at the same time? :/

hitting snake's head is the easiest way if he has a nade in hand.

another way is to space perfectly your aerials (u-air works perfect always but you have to be close so it's risky)

never try d tilt, tipper f-tilt may work 'cause the angle.
don't jab, nor smash.

if you read some shielding when he recently took a nade, you can go for a grab and throw, then run away, also don't be so afraid wasting your shield and get away when you can, or take them and throw them back for some damage or pressure an approach.

 

[Akashi]

dtilt works fine against snake when he's holding a nade, just make sure you're not about to hit his shield (he'll drop the nade and you'll hit). I personally prefer nair against a nade happy snake - it shield pokes, and virtually unpunishable if you retreat it. @Nike, I'm looking forward to watching your matches when I get home! :D

 

[Jeos]

great set nike...

match 1: good, you got a little nervous when you lost your first stock, but when pikachu set up a thunder, you musn't mommentum cancel with an aerial, or you lose the stock.
as an ex pika second, pikachu almost always use utilt or upsmash out of killing percent for a thunder set up so don't bet afraid of not canceling your vertical mommentum, but that's only percent specific so it's a common mistake.
second life, I just see a misplaced SJ, so that'll be easy for you to fix that.
great comeback and nice reads at the end, very focused.

match 2: first stock, pretty ok, but the same mistake as the first match so covered it.
second stock, if you DIed up the fair, then you must never use DS because of what happened, then he had some reads and you could have faired him to prevent your dead, but well, just bad played, a DS would have worked there too.
third stock, nice use of the plattaforms and nice DS when you were recovering. that feeling when you could have won but 3 frames step on your way...

match 3: very nice start, the you overused DS and lost some reads for the kill (also you got lucky that kprime lost some nairs to kill you), then why the d-air from the ledge?, maybe bad input there idk.
also everyone should star to wavebounce with DB1, it's very easy and safer than SB.
second stock, mindgames everywhere, very tight, then good job on the edge, and recovering, with a nice DS after a read.
third stock, those rolls on the ledge at that percents, that was very risky. then the worst part, never understimate pikachu's survival abilities. those smashes where very well done but kprime did a good job with the DI. then you approached when you should not do it, but I guess it was 'cause your desire to win, very well played, you almost won except for a little but fatal error.

nice set, I enjoyed them a lot and keep up

 

[Akashi]

Amazing set Nike, I'm so sad you lost . Those last few usmashes made my heart jump lol

 

[Jeos]

I forgot to ask, how do you did those "moonwalikng" stuff? I've seen mike do the same thing but I don't know how to do it ._.

 

[Nike.]

Ack. there was about a half dozen choked pivot grabs that ended up being a roll or dash attack. Got sad whenever you mentioned them in that critique lol.

moonwalk stuff = walk in a direction (towards the opponent) -> fox trot the other direction. It's like RARing but instead of jumping, you just let marth turn around. Gives me the option to pivot grab or a late bair (depending on what the opponent does).

Mike does it to bait a metaknight into rolling from his shield when he's trapped by the ledge. Creates a super easy, yet **** looking read for a pivot grab. I try it if the opponent freezes in their shield (like when you respawn) or there air dodging into me from the ledge.

Still sad that the usmashes didn't kill Thanks for the help, though

 

[PEACE7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3yyAKruh_c&hd=1 I know I won but I feel like I ****ed up quite a bit and i hate fighting falcon on fd someone please critique

 

[Kuro~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3yyAKruh_c&hd=1 I know I won but I feel like I ****ed up quite a bit and i hate fighting falcon on fd someone please critique

Lookin mighty sharp there peace

Only thing i can honestly say is

Shield breaker is never even close to being the best option to try to punish side b like u tried once

Don't fair when falco is directly under you. It's beggin to get smacked.

Nice grab reads.

 

[PEACE7]

Thanks man and yea never again will i try to punish those side b's with shield breaker thanks for the critique man

 

[Jeos]

thanks nike

 

[Prince Nero]

i can use all the Tips Info I Can Use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeblccHLynM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVM1uq7H0x8
i got cocky with DS in the 2nd match cause of lag but anyways please Help Me Out

 

[Akashi]

i can use all the Tips Info I Can Use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeblccHLynM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVM1uq7H0x8
i got cocky with DS in the 2nd match cause of lag but anyways please Help Me Out

I have a lot of Ike knowledge, extensively from experience and my absurd obsessive of understanding him. I'll critique you when I get home from work (past 11pm CST)

 

[Prince Nero]

ok ty

 

[Akashi]

i can use all the Tips Info I Can Use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeblccHLynM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVM1uq7H0x8
i got cocky with DS in the 2nd match cause of lag but anyways please Help Me Out

Alright, critique time. I'm only going to review your 1st video, go play-by-play, and then give a conclusion.

:0-:13 you look like you're feeling out opponent. Watch your rolls, you were rolling away from him unnecessarily, whereas you could have easily reset your spacing by walking. Also, you didn't finish your DB, but I'm assuming that was due to lag.

:16-:20 STOP. You didn't take time to get rid of your RCO lag (the 30-something frames [I think] of lag you get from using DS), and therefore when Ike hit you @ :20, Marth had extra lag when he landed. Ike can actually jab to utilt you in this scenario, and if you didn't DI the jab up (like you didn't), it would be a true combo. ALWAYS make sure to get rid of your RCO lag.

:25 Bthrow? Dthrow is a much better choice . It places them in a better position for following up, and I think it ends faster, but I'm not sure on this myself.

:30-:40 - Um, I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to accomplish. I know you're fishing for a grab, but your constant rolls and spot-dodges is hurting your chances more than it's helping. Also, when you finally land a move, it's an utilt to another utilt. That... never combos, unless it's Melee lol. If you're having a hard time grabbing, try a short hop fast fall uair, which places them in a perfect position to be fsmashed, nair'd, fair'd, etc. It's guaranteed @ low%s

1:07 - DI up and away from Ike. You can punish his jab strings with a fair or uair. Even if Ike does his full jab combo, your DI will put you in a good position anyways.

1:11 - once again, utilt? You're missing a lot of great set-ups. DB would have been a better alternative, you could have either directed him up and try to chip him in the air, or sent him off-stage and harass him. Utilt leads to absolutely nothing, and compared to your other safe moves, it's not faster either.

1:18 - good use of DI

1:22 - you're trolling me with those utilts... lol

1:36-1:44 - you spot-dodge and roll waayyyy too much. It seems like whenever you're being pressured, you spaz out and go into safe mode. He didn't punish you too much for it, but a seasoned player would grab/hit you out of those.

2:16 - Bthrow -> Fsmash doesn't work @ 0%. Fthrow works against Ike, idk about dthrow but I don't think it does. You can also fthrow -> nair -> fsmash/utilt Ike, but he can DI out of it, obviously.

2:21 - You keep throwing him and trying to fsmash afterward. That isn't a frame trap, but moreso a mindgame. If you're trying to get into his head, do mix-ups (ie: charge the fsmash and wait for a spot-dodge). Either way, you're putting yourself out there to be punished, which he didn't unfortunately. Also you tried to punish his roll with a utilt LOL, stop that!!!

2:29 - you spot-dodged. stop it. lol

2:43 - Does this scenario look familiar? Because it's 2:21 all over again, including the utilt <____<

3:00 - 3:22 - I felt like you were getting psyched out at this point. You were ahead a stock, so you should have played much more defensive. Instead, everytime you got hit, you immediately ran back to him/air-dodged into him, and you were getting punished for it. There's nothing wrong with trying to mix it up and throw out random attacks because you can take the risk, but a dair into the platform above him isn't a smart choice. Breathe, stay calm, and evaluate his habits.

From your last stock to the end of the match, you fell into the habits I already mentioned. You kept throwing out kill moves looking for an early kill, whereas you should have been spacing yourself and forcing him to approach you. Ike loses to Marth BIG TIME when he's on the offense, mainly because he has no safe way of getting in. Marth doesn't have to commit to any of his attacks except a full DB, so stay defensive.

Overall, the Ike was okay... but he had some glaring habits you should have punished. My advice is for you to evaluate Marth's moveset, and think of how to utilize each and every move. ie: using jab or ftilt as an anti-air, or poking an opponent's shield with the 1st hit of DB (it's safe, btw, depending on the MU and if they don't perfect shield). Also, next time you should show us an offline video... there were times when I couldn't tell whether it was you doing wrong inputs due to lag, or because you thought that option would work.

I hope that helped! D:

 

[Prince Nero]

yes it did thank you very much i'll be sure to work on that up tilt stuff >.< what about the second video?. also how often should i use DB and should i use counter more often?. sorry im just really trying to improve

 

[Akashi]

yes it did thank you very much i'll be sure to work on that up tilt stuff >.< what about the second video?. also how often should i use DB and should i use counter more often?. sorry im just really trying to improve

I'll be busy all day, so no guarantees I'll get to a critique tonight. In terms of DB, use it to refresh your moves and to punish/juggle. It comes out on frame 4, beating a lot of approaches, and it also ends up being a nice poke (only 1st hit). You should counter sparingly, because if you can read your opponent's next move, chances are you can punish with something better. I'd only use it for big, like Ike's fsmash (at the point where he can't continue to charge and wait out counter's ending). However, counter is AMAZING for Ike's recovery - it will efficiently completely wall an Ike's aether, both when you're on the ledge, or standing near it.

 

[Napos]

First off, I use to Main Meta, but with all the talk about banning and whatnot, I am trying different characters.


Here is a video: Me vs. Dekar...

The beatdown is awful and some of you may throw up.


anyways please tell me how I can win this.

OH MY GOD...

 

[Nike.]

So funny. I was playing Gnes some friendlies this last weekend. He'd randomly change his tag/color to Dekar, ADHD, Fliphop, and then play like them.
Now that I watch Dekar again, he was mimmicking his playstyle so well x)

So, you've got a case of the "I-don't-know-how-to-play-against-diddy-and-his-stupid-bananas" syndrome.
Diddy is an entirely new ballgame when you don't have 6 jumps and plenty of get-away-and-land-safely options.
Naners are very good at forcing a reaction after you've commited, cover landings, and just intimidate you.
I know what it's like. Used to get 3-stocked in tourney by Dao/Fliphop cuz Diddy would just seem too overpowering.
And Dekar is extrmemely good, so it's even harder than it already is lol

In your case, I'd honestly hope that CJ reads this. He's extremely good at the diddy MU and could explain far better than I could.
He helps me in my sets against Gnes and the diddy mu in general frequently and I've improved on it over time thanks to him.