• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

PEACE7

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
2,213
Location
Training Mode
When he shorthops double laser, shield the first laser and dash under the 2nd one.
When he is recovering with sideb you can jab him, it combos into downsmash I believe.
At 0:40 you could of chaingrabbed to spike for a stock.
When falco is at 13% you can dthrow to tipper Fsmash.
At 1:53 you should of dropped back fair it would of staged spiked him unless he techs it.
At 1:59 you could of jump sideb1 stall, altho reversing it would of been the safest option since he was coming with a spike.
Overall good stuff and LOL at his last stock.

You can upB out of his chaingrab if he isn't buffering, altho some falcos will chaingrab you and bait an upB so watch out.
When he is on the ledge and you know he is going to try and recover with sideB, either time a jab, ftilt or if you predict his landing charge an upsmash.
At 1:41 when you hit with the first hit of nair you could of grabbed there's a lot of cool tricks with first hit of nair.
At 2:15 he was dead lol 2:25 nice tipper.
Nice chaingrab 2:38 very risky recovery got to work on that.
Try to mix it up and not overuse fair it gets staled after a while use swordance to refresh it.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
Jabbing phantasm combos into everything forever.

Also
When he shorthops double laser, shield the first laser and dash under the 2nd one.
Assuming he's double lasering properly, you got that backwards. There's no way Marth gets lower to the ground than a silent laser.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
I apologize if any of this comes across as mean or w/e. I just type what I think when I see it.

[COLLAPSE=" "]Right off the bat when you pick up the first item piece, you bair for some reason… You’re attacking away from your opponent and putting yourself in lag… just why? Z-grab the item or FFfair/slowfall nair if you feel the need to attach for some reason… but really, just pick it up with Z. It’s lagless…

0:13 I’m going to guess right now that this is going to be a bad habit… You’re going to consistently pick-up items while going forward with fair (usually FH but sometimes SH’d).

You then get dash attacked for having a super obvious and unsafe approach while falling with no cover.

0:15 See above

0:15/0:16 As a result of this habit you missed a free uair. Alternatively, immediately Z-dropping the item and then FFuairing would have worked as well but you hesitated. Can’t hesitate. Instead you got uaired.

0:29 Again with the bair for no reason. You also gave up stage positioning and an opportunity to ledge trap her for the item. Terrible choice.

0:31 You’re not FFing your aerials. You just fall with fair and got dash attacked again.

0:42 Just hit “A.” You’re already shielding, there’s no reason to shield drop then try to grab- let alone dash grab.

0:43 after whiffing your grab you roll backwards straight into ZSS. Pretty much the worst thing you can do. Jump/dash away.

0:49 Always FF. The hitbox was out up there so if it hit, it was going to hit. You need to FF to make sure that you stay under your opponent.

0:51 You were watching Marth there I’d be willing to bet. You know where you are and what Marth is going to be doing (as you’re controlling him). If you’re unsure what Marth is doing at any point, go to training mode and learn how to control your character. You need to be watching your opponent during the match so you can react to their choices. You rolled into a charged dsmash and took a LOT of damage

You did a good job of camping the windmill, but you don’t want to stay above characters (especially ZSS, MK, and in the ditto). As soon as she committed you should have gotten down. So when she grounded plasma whipped you should have ran off to the right and gotten out of that situation. When she eventually went up to get you, you should have dropped down to reverse the situation.

1:22 Again, you HAVE to FF your aerials to stay safe. You’re lucky you didn’t get bair’d.

1:29 No. Bad. DB4Down is bad. It’s easy to SDI out of and punishable on hit. It’s not the worst thing in the world on shield- provided their shield is fairly low beforehand. You should just about DB4Down

1:33-1:35 You’re committing WAY to hard to your fairs. Rising SH, slow fall fairs? You’re essentially asking him to get on stage for free. Be patient, don’t commit. If you jump get on the ground as QUICKLY as you can (aka FF your aerials).

1:36 Why would you jump straight into that? Utilt/ftilt

1:38 Again with the rolling into your opponent while they’re in a neutral position.

1:41 Her fsmash hits behind her too… Don’t roll into ZSS. Just let it hit your shield and then tipper fsmash him to punish.

1:43 Just why?

1:45 Again with the rising fair with no FF getting you dash attacked.

1:47 Fall with nair. Longer range and beats out dsmash or just don’t drift and land into her.

1:58 Good

2:00 She was too far away for you to hit with anything unless you super committed and attacked into her shield (aka bad spacing). Jumping is committing in general. Stop jumping for no reason.

I'm stopping here since anything I tell you outside of what is below this collapse tag is useless until you fix what is outside of the collapse tag.[/COLLAPSE]


Overall, your fundamentals are really lacking. Learn when to jump, you need to FF. Watch top and high level Marths and examine their move choice; as it stands your option choosing is lacking.

None of that is something that can't be overcome. You just are going to have to put in a bit of work in training mode/fighting CPUs in order to get your basics down.
 

Cygnet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
115
Hi! I'm a beginner who's really horrible, but I'm hoping to change that (eventually.....)!

If anyone is available to critique my videos, thank you so much! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0LGrvXwKh4&t=7m6s (vs. ROB)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CVBaAEPxdY&feature=channel_video_title (vs. Marth - I'm "!")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm5vIJZy4Gg&feature=relmfu (vs. Marth - I'm "!")

I'm extremely horrible at the Marth ditto..... any tips? :/

Also, this is going to sound like literally the worst question possible, but I kill myself a lot..... how do you prevent that? (Serious question.... T___T)

Thank you very much again! :)
Hi again! Is it possible for anyone to critique my videos? Sorry for being impatient again, it's possible that no one noticed because my post was at the bottom of the last page.

(Also has anyone critiqued mauroxcf?)

Thank you!
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
Wait, you know how to FF
o_O
/pleasant change. I'll do them tomorrow. Expect the ones of the ditto to be brief. It looks like you two were just messing around and not paying much attention... at all.

@Mauro: I like how you play... I'll do yours tomorrow too.


All the matches should be done by about 10pm EST.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
Since when are so many people playing Marth AND want critiques.
As long as ankoku still is playing white Marth, then I'll do his too.
 

Cygnet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
115
Expect the ones of the ditto to be brief. It looks like you two were just messing around and not paying much attention... at all.
That's not good..... I was trying to play seriously, but I guess..... I'm apparently doing something incredibly wrong. What things SHOULD I be paying attention to?

Thanks again!
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
I need to make an image with Marth neutral airing

with a caption something along the lines of

"Spamming that neutral air: my thumb on the c stick tilted slightly forward waiting to pounce"
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
*Disclaimer* If anything I say comes across as mean I don't mean it as such. I type exactly what I think when I see it happen. It's just the way I think.

[COLLAPSE="Cygnet vs ROB"]Very first thing, really good landing uair. People don’t use it to land enough. The shieldpush is ridiculous and it’s really safe if you’re not perfectly spaced for fair/nair. Good job!

7:16 It was unlikely he would have upB’d. Instead of rising uair which would only have been a better option in the case that he did rise more, falling uair was a better option. Still would have hit assuming he didn’t rise (unlikely for him to do so) and if it misses you get to stay under ROB. Granted, the ROB didn’t FF or uair you so you still got to keep up your string w/ your fair.

7:25 You don’t want to cross up ROB pretty much ever. His dsmash makes it really dangerous and easily punishable.

7:27 You got pretty lucky here. Don’t AD into your opponent while landing. Every player on the planet looks for it.

7:28 I don’t like the idea of jumping over someone like that so openly and opening yourself up to juggles so easily.

7:42 That wasn’t even remotely close to space properly for a DS. You were hoping for a dash attack. You really don’t want to use DS on prediction. If you’re wrong you get REALLY hurt for it. The risk reward for it is terrible. Luckily, he tried to usmash you for some reason.

7:52 Overall you’re pretty impatient on the ledge so far. Every time that you’re on it, you get off of it immediately. Be patient. Luckily this is the first time that you’ve gotten punished for being aggressive getting off the ledge. You committed too hard to approaching nair and got fsmashed. Patience is key when you’re on the ledge.

7:54 While I’m in general opposed to using your second jump like that, you made a good read and got back on stage safely so I can’t complain.

8:04 While it didn’t make a difference then, make sure you’re ALWAYS in the habit of using an aerial (usually fair/uair) when you land while you have RCO lag.

8:17 Against characters with a really good option as soon they land, unless you’re super confident in your timing for grab (the hitbox is only out for 2 frames) dtilt, DB, or even pivot grab are FAR superior options.

8:20 Again, I’m opposed to using your second jump like this although he didn’t react and you got down safely. Just make sure you’re a LOT more careful about it in the future. If these two things are off of mix-ups from previous times you guys played or whatever that’s fine. But if this is a habit just be careful.

8:23 Again with that landing uair =)

8:28 I’m pretty sure at this point you just use your jump too openly.

8:29 Don’t just wait in shield with your back to your opponent (well… better that than rolling into them at least). Retreating bair OoS. Shield drop-> dash away. Shield drop into turn around grab. Don’t just stand there and let yourself get grabbed.

Your first death was from an item- no excuses. Get your item game down pat. Make sure you can AD catch, instant throw, Z-catch, fair/nair catch items, swat them away, etc etc. Be able to use items.

8:35-8:43 You should play SF/MvC. You’re good at cornering people. Good untippered uair to utilt and phenomenal spacing/timing on your nair to beat his.

Okay immediately after this you get him offstage and he just gets *****. I’m going to say he’s not actually a ROB main since he isn’t getting out of this stuff. Be careful when you go offstage against someone with a more flexible recovery than you; it’s too easy and common for you to end up getting gimped instead.

9:14 Watch and react to what he does after you throw him. Don’t commit to something just to get hit (like you did). He’s at the disadvantage after a throw so he will act. Just wait and watch.

9:16 Okay… now you’re getting more than a little too aggressive and over confident. You have to space your fairs. If you just fall into people you will get ***** for it.

9:18 With your opponent at low %s you pretty much never want to DS (unless you have awesome coverage by a platform like the left statue on the second part of Castle Siege). It’s unsafe on hit (unless they’re DIing straight down for some reason). He’s really bad at punishing whiffed DS…

9:21 Again, watch and wait after you throw someone.

9:23 Bad jump. You’re lucky he didn’t ledgehog properly to kill you.

9:32 I love it when people FF properly to land before their opponents so that they stay below them. Thank you for that.

9:40 DB to punish. Rising fair OoS at that distance is way too committal of an action.

9:50 Pick your punishments better. You just staled what is probably your best killing tool at this point. DB would have done the same if not more damage, put him farther offstage, freshened your fair/nair, and like I already said kept your fsmash fresh.

9:54 He wasn’t above you at all. And ROB’s rise speed isn’t anything close to quick enough to justify uair. Nair/fair were far better options. They would have hit and kept him offstage.

9:57 Again, you’re getting too aggressive and over confident. You keep falling into him and you get punished for it sometimes. Against better players you’ll get punished for it a LOT. Spacing and patience.

10:19 He was in the air. So you do anything EXCEPT for dtilt. Jab/ftilt are the two easiest options to condition yourself to use since those are your go-to anti-airs.

10:21-10:26 You kept jumping badly and falling into your opponent. EVENTUALLY he messed up and you got a grab. Patience patience patience.

10:31 Charging smashes is not a good ledge trap -__-

10:32 DB for guaranteed damage and getting him offstage. Don’t bother hoping to get lucky with usmash. At this point you’re starting to look for the kill too much.

10:38 See 10:31. If you charge a smash you’re super committed. It’s really easy to escape ledge pressure at that point. I don’t know why he doesn’t but that’s really not the point.

10:40 You want the kill and you want it to be cool. That’s the only explanation that I can think of for attempting a dair that had zero possibility of connecting instead of a bair that would have hit and probably killed.

10:41 I’m going to assume it was supposed to be a turn around DS. Go to training mode. You can’t afford to make silly execution errors like that.

10:50 I was going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was supposed to be a FF fair. Then I watched it again and saw that even if it was you were falling into him again and it wasn’t well spaced.

10:59 Good dtilts

11:03 Again with the charging smashes… You die. Keep in mind, if you get hit while charging a smash it does extra knock back (granted you shouldn’t need a reason to not charge a smash as a ledge trap other than “it’s stupid and really committed and lets them on for free”).
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Cygnet vs Marth"]STOP DASHING EVERY 2 SECONDS. One of the BIGGEST reasons I thought you were just messing around. You’re not Mr. R (and even him I don’t understand how he gets away with it half the time). WALK. Walking is good. Walking is lagless. Walking lets you keep options. Dash has you asking to get hit for 17 frames before you can shield.

Know your throw percents and when they aren’t guaranteed anymore follow DI then watch and react to what they do. Don’t just throw out attacks.

Fsmash is not an approach

Stop wasting your jump offstage.

Keep your feet on the ground. Ftilt beats Marth’s approaches if you time it right (I’ll admit it’s really hard to do consistently though). If you jump you now can be anti-air’d and might be juggled.

Double jumping onstage is asking to have to your landing read (doesn’t count if you DJ away right before you land so you don’t get landing trapped).

DS regrab if you want to stay on the ledge to beat another character’s linear recovery (like Marth). Don’t just let go for no reason. And especially DON’T WASTE YOUR JUMP OFFSTAGE. (You’ll remember that eventually, I’m confident.)

Seriously, stop jumping into attacks.

Don’t attack into anyone’s shield. This holds even more true vs. Marth/MK.

Time your landing traps better

Quit being so impatient

Don’t roll into Marth. You don’t want to get usmash/DB’d

No offense, you’re not good enough yet to the point where you want to be messing with dair. Focus on ledge traps and other BnB. All it does is let the other person keep you offstage and set up juggles on you. (Another of the big reasons I thought you were messing around.)

Charging smashes does not qualify as “ledge trapping.”

You AD into the ground.. A lot. Stop doing that.

You play Marth. You know how long DS lag is. You can charge your usmash for a little before you release it.

Quit staling your fsmash. Do you think it’ll kill? If the answer to that is “Well, I was hoping it would” “Maybe” or “No” you shouldn’t be using it as a general rule. If you did think it would kill, and didn’t. It was probably stale because you used it for no reason in the near past or you just don’t know when the move kills. Learn that and when you do, you’ll be wanting to use DB a LOT more often. Then , when it is time to kill, instead of having a super stale fsmash that doesn’t kill even with bad DI, you’ll actually be able to take a stock.

You reeaalllyyyy need to work on recovering safer.

Quit trying to go for hard reads. Stick to basics and easier reads. I mean really, 3:10 on Halberd? Really? (The third big reason I thought you were just messing around).

Again, stay away from dair and smashes are not ledge traps. They’re too laggy.

Dair is also not how you punish people from the ledge for recovering on the stage. Delayed nair so the second hitbox sends them back out (similar to 2:33 on the game on Halberd), bair so you send them back out, and uair to set up for juggles are how you punish people for recovering onto the stage from the ledge.

DS at low %s isn’t safe on hit. Never ever ever use it unless you have a platform to catch you high up.

Stop trying to dair him. Focus on BnB fair and ledge trapping him

About 2:58 on the game on halberd you see him jump up, nair, realize that it wouldn’t hit without a HARD commitment from him, so he goes back to the ledge. You would have (based on the other matches I’ve seen) gone for the hit and super committed. This is what I mean by patience on the ledge. Don’t commit.

Speaking of committing, charging a SB is just as bad as charging a smash as a ledge trap.
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Maurox vs DDD"]0:06 No, bad. You do not approach with slowfall nair. That’s a landing option to stay safe. If you whiff that while going forwards you get punished.

0:08 See, what’d I tell you?

Everything up to 0:52 was very nicely done. The only bad thing was you didn’t punish his Waddle throws. You gotta react and DB him for that.

0:52 You went forward while landing with a fair. You didn’t get punished but you could have easily gotten grabbed.

0:54 Why the DS? I’m going to assume either a panic reaction or that you tried to reverse DS to hit the roll. If it’s the former, just remember you’re fighting DDD. Staying calm is super important. If the latter, go to training mode. You can’t make simple execution errors like that.

0:57 I probably would have countered the fsmash instead of trying to beat it out, but it worked for you so no complaints.

You’re jumping a little bit too much. If you don’t intend on making an attempt to hit DDD, stay on the ground more. All you’re doing is committing and looking to get punished on landing. Also, it ruins your ability to punish things that would be a matter of muscle memory to punish had you been on the ground (see the waddle toss at 1:00).

1:07 You get grabbed for the first time. It looks like you FF’d it part way through nair. You’re trying to land with using nair as a wall. You want to slowfall it in order to let you drift backwards longer and the hitbox stays out longer as well.

You get put on the ledge and you immediately try to get up. You get punished. You try to get up again immediately. It takes him an extra swing but you get punished for this too. If you’re going to be impatient on the ledge vs. a good DDD, don’t even bother playing against them. Be smart, and be patient. Not to say that immediate actions are always bad, but you just want to be very careful on the ledge vs. this damn penguin.

1:19 You get put to the other ledge, and you try to get up immediately again. Patience is a virtue. Embrace is. This leads to your stock being lost.

1:26 to 1:37 you play the MU beautifully, I love it. 1:37 he uses a get-up attack. You have to know the ranges on characters’ get-up attacks both > and < 100%. If you spaced yourself better that fsmash would have taken his stock. Also, don’t forget about stutter stepping.

1:39 Panic DS again I assume. Be careful with those.

1:43 You landing fair into his shield. It appears you know the MU well enough to know to not do this. You got grabbed.

1:50 to 1:55 You had the start of a good ledge trap going. Just remember nair outranges fair so nair there would have knocked him back to the ledge. But you falling fair forward hoping to get lucky (work on spacing for ledge options) and you get grabbed again.

2:01 Thank you for not jumping

2:01-2:14 Your ledge game (when you’re on the ledge) is just very lacking overall. Learn how to get up vs. different characters. React to their actions. Watch your spot dodges when you do manage to get up because they’re common and easy to grab (or hit otherwise) afterwards to throw you back out.

2:13 Watch the DS. It cost you your stock.

2:23 Retreat the uair.

2:24/5 He’s already demonstrated his ability to shield skid cancel CG you consistently. Even if he messes up you’ll hit his shield with DS. The risk/reward is terrible imo. Roll through DDD (they never expect it… ever) or just hold away and walk out of the CG if they decide to try to bait a DS.

2:33 Fsmash

2:39 FH rising fair. SH rising fair can be dash grabbed on PS (as demonstrated here).

2:43 Tech it

2:45 Another whiffed DS.

3:16 Had you been on the ground and walking you could have DB’d him easily for the waddle throw

Whenever you’re offstage you have a tendency to always drift back towards the stage from the beginning. Mix it up. Go towards it, away from it, straight down, FF, slowfall, early DS, etc etc. You’re predictable is fairly linear even though you’re good at managing your midair jump.

Game 2:
Very first thing you do NOT want to CP DDD here. DDD can get the lead easier than you in general and this stage promotes camping. If you get grabbed on a transformation you can get infinited. You want to CP BF, Brinstar, etc.

4:07 When you dtilt you need to have your eyes glued to the opponent. One of the best things about dtilt is the fact that it ends faster than rolls and spot dodges and is pretty much safe on shield. You need to react to anything they do when you dtilt. Instead you had a plan and you stuck to the plan and DB1’d away from where DDD was and you got grabbed.

4:18 He was in the air above you. You want to stay on the ground and **** his landings. Jumping right into his range… not the best idea.

4:22 Same as 4:07. You needed to dash forward a little bit more to DB here.

4:33 You need to be walking more.

4:38 Take the guaranteed punish- DB. Don’t get greedy and try for smashes.

You’re still being a bit impatient on the ledge (and you should have teched that).

5:04 DB is your best punishing move (in general). Choose your punishes.

5:10 You want to be below DDD, not level with him- you got bair’d

From then until 5:43 you were playing really well again. You need to play like this ALL the time. Not just when you have momentum- I recognize how difficult that is, but you have to do it.

5:43 You FF at a spacing w/ fair where you were guaranteed to get grabbed.

6:25 Counter obvious fsmashes

Yeah… you don’t want to spot dodge out of CG…

Your second stock was lost because you keep drifting towards the stage. You gotta mix it up.

You’re really good at dtilting DDD

Your biggest problem is your ledge play. When you’re on the ledge you take way too much damage and let yourself get pressured too hard.

There’s more to say about game 2, but it’s all a repeat of what happened game 1
[/COLLAPSE]


Ankoku, I'll do yours later tonight. I have to go to a wedding/reception now though.

EDIT: By that I mean- I'll start them now and fall asleep while working on them the post them up for you sometime early tomorrow afternoon since I don't have any classes Friday after noon.
 

mauroxcf

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
10
Location
Colombia, Cartagena
3DS FC
3926-6804-2207
*Disclaimer* If anything I say comes across as mean I don't mean it as such. I type exactly what I think when I see it happen. It's just the way I think.

[COLLAPSE="Cygnet vs ROB"]Very first thing, really good landing uair. People don’t use it to land enough. The shieldpush is ridiculous and it’s really safe if you’re not perfectly spaced for fair/nair. Good job!

7:16 It was unlikely he would have upB’d. Instead of rising uair which would only have been a better option in the case that he did rise more, falling uair was a better option. Still would have hit assuming he didn’t rise (unlikely for him to do so) and if it misses you get to stay under ROB. Granted, the ROB didn’t FF or uair you so you still got to keep up your string w/ your fair.

7:25 You don’t want to cross up ROB pretty much ever. His dsmash makes it really dangerous and easily punishable.

7:27 You got pretty lucky here. Don’t AD into your opponent while landing. Every player on the planet looks for it.

7:28 I don’t like the idea of jumping over someone like that so openly and opening yourself up to juggles so easily.

7:42 That wasn’t even remotely close to space properly for a DS. You were hoping for a dash attack. You really don’t want to use DS on prediction. If you’re wrong you get REALLY hurt for it. The risk reward for it is terrible. Luckily, he tried to usmash you for some reason.

7:52 Overall you’re pretty impatient on the ledge so far. Every time that you’re on it, you get off of it immediately. Be patient. Luckily this is the first time that you’ve gotten punished for being aggressive getting off the ledge. You committed too hard to approaching nair and got fsmashed. Patience is key when you’re on the ledge.

7:54 While I’m in general opposed to using your second jump like that, you made a good read and got back on stage safely so I can’t complain.

8:04 While it didn’t make a difference then, make sure you’re ALWAYS in the habit of using an aerial (usually fair/uair) when you land while you have RCO lag.

8:17 Against characters with a really good option as soon they land, unless you’re super confident in your timing for grab (the hitbox is only out for 2 frames) dtilt, DB, or even pivot grab are FAR superior options.

8:20 Again, I’m opposed to using your second jump like this although he didn’t react and you got down safely. Just make sure you’re a LOT more careful about it in the future. If these two things are off of mix-ups from previous times you guys played or whatever that’s fine. But if this is a habit just be careful.

8:23 Again with that landing uair =)

8:28 I’m pretty sure at this point you just use your jump too openly.

8:29 Don’t just wait in shield with your back to your opponent (well… better that than rolling into them at least). Retreating bair OoS. Shield drop-> dash away. Shield drop into turn around grab. Don’t just stand there and let yourself get grabbed.

Your first death was from an item- no excuses. Get your item game down pat. Make sure you can AD catch, instant throw, Z-catch, fair/nair catch items, swat them away, etc etc. Be able to use items.

8:35-8:43 You should play SF/MvC. You’re good at cornering people. Good untippered uair to utilt and phenomenal spacing/timing on your nair to beat his.

Okay immediately after this you get him offstage and he just gets *****. I’m going to say he’s not actually a ROB main since he isn’t getting out of this stuff. Be careful when you go offstage against someone with a more flexible recovery than you; it’s too easy and common for you to end up getting gimped instead.

9:14 Watch and react to what he does after you throw him. Don’t commit to something just to get hit (like you did). He’s at the disadvantage after a throw so he will act. Just wait and watch.

9:16 Okay… now you’re getting more than a little too aggressive and over confident. You have to space your fairs. If you just fall into people you will get ***** for it.

9:18 With your opponent at low %s you pretty much never want to DS (unless you have awesome coverage by a platform like the left statue on the second part of Castle Siege). It’s unsafe on hit (unless they’re DIing straight down for some reason). He’s really bad at punishing whiffed DS…

9:21 Again, watch and wait after you throw someone.

9:23 Bad jump. You’re lucky he didn’t ledgehog properly to kill you.

9:32 I love it when people FF properly to land before their opponents so that they stay below them. Thank you for that.

9:40 DB to punish. Rising fair OoS at that distance is way too committal of an action.

9:50 Pick your punishments better. You just staled what is probably your best killing tool at this point. DB would have done the same if not more damage, put him farther offstage, freshened your fair/nair, and like I already said kept your fsmash fresh.

9:54 He wasn’t above you at all. And ROB’s rise speed isn’t anything close to quick enough to justify uair. Nair/fair were far better options. They would have hit and kept him offstage.

9:57 Again, you’re getting too aggressive and over confident. You keep falling into him and you get punished for it sometimes. Against better players you’ll get punished for it a LOT. Spacing and patience.

10:19 He was in the air. So you do anything EXCEPT for dtilt. Jab/ftilt are the two easiest options to condition yourself to use since those are your go-to anti-airs.

10:21-10:26 You kept jumping badly and falling into your opponent. EVENTUALLY he messed up and you got a grab. Patience patience patience.

10:31 Charging smashes is not a good ledge trap -__-

10:32 DB for guaranteed damage and getting him offstage. Don’t bother hoping to get lucky with usmash. At this point you’re starting to look for the kill too much.

10:38 See 10:31. If you charge a smash you’re super committed. It’s really easy to escape ledge pressure at that point. I don’t know why he doesn’t but that’s really not the point.

10:40 You want the kill and you want it to be cool. That’s the only explanation that I can think of for attempting a dair that had zero possibility of connecting instead of a bair that would have hit and probably killed.

10:41 I’m going to assume it was supposed to be a turn around DS. Go to training mode. You can’t afford to make silly execution errors like that.

10:50 I was going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was supposed to be a FF fair. Then I watched it again and saw that even if it was you were falling into him again and it wasn’t well spaced.

10:59 Good dtilts

11:03 Again with the charging smashes… You die. Keep in mind, if you get hit while charging a smash it does extra knock back (granted you shouldn’t need a reason to not charge a smash as a ledge trap other than “it’s stupid and really committed and lets them on for free”).
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Cygnet vs Marth"]STOP DASHING EVERY 2 SECONDS. One of the BIGGEST reasons I thought you were just messing around. You’re not Mr. R (and even him I don’t understand how he gets away with it half the time). WALK. Walking is good. Walking is lagless. Walking lets you keep options. Dash has you asking to get hit for 17 frames before you can shield.

Know your throw percents and when they aren’t guaranteed anymore follow DI then watch and react to what they do. Don’t just throw out attacks.

Fsmash is not an approach

Stop wasting your jump offstage.

Keep your feet on the ground. Ftilt beats Marth’s approaches if you time it right (I’ll admit it’s really hard to do consistently though). If you jump you now can be anti-air’d and might be juggled.

Double jumping onstage is asking to have to your landing read (doesn’t count if you DJ away right before you land so you don’t get landing trapped).

DS regrab if you want to stay on the ledge to beat another character’s linear recovery (like Marth). Don’t just let go for no reason. And especially DON’T WASTE YOUR JUMP OFFSTAGE. (You’ll remember that eventually, I’m confident.)

Seriously, stop jumping into attacks.

Don’t attack into anyone’s shield. This holds even more true vs. Marth/MK.

Time your landing traps better

Quit being so impatient

Don’t roll into Marth. You don’t want to get usmash/DB’d

No offense, you’re not good enough yet to the point where you want to be messing with dair. Focus on ledge traps and other BnB. All it does is let the other person keep you offstage and set up juggles on you. (Another of the big reasons I thought you were messing around.)

Charging smashes does not qualify as “ledge trapping.”

You AD into the ground.. A lot. Stop doing that.

You play Marth. You know how long DS lag is. You can charge your usmash for a little before you release it.

Quit staling your fsmash. Do you think it’ll kill? If the answer to that is “Well, I was hoping it would” “Maybe” or “No” you shouldn’t be using it as a general rule. If you did think it would kill, and didn’t. It was probably stale because you used it for no reason in the near past or you just don’t know when the move kills. Learn that and when you do, you’ll be wanting to use DB a LOT more often. Then , when it is time to kill, instead of having a super stale fsmash that doesn’t kill even with bad DI, you’ll actually be able to take a stock.

You reeaalllyyyy need to work on recovering safer.

Quit trying to go for hard reads. Stick to basics and easier reads. I mean really, 3:10 on Halberd? Really? (The third big reason I thought you were just messing around).

Again, stay away from dair and smashes are not ledge traps. They’re too laggy.

Dair is also not how you punish people from the ledge for recovering on the stage. Delayed nair so the second hitbox sends them back out (similar to 2:33 on the game on Halberd), bair so you send them back out, and uair to set up for juggles are how you punish people for recovering onto the stage from the ledge.

DS at low %s isn’t safe on hit. Never ever ever use it unless you have a platform to catch you high up.

Stop trying to dair him. Focus on BnB fair and ledge trapping him

About 2:58 on the game on halberd you see him jump up, nair, realize that it wouldn’t hit without a HARD commitment from him, so he goes back to the ledge. You would have (based on the other matches I’ve seen) gone for the hit and super committed. This is what I mean by patience on the ledge. Don’t commit.

Speaking of committing, charging a SB is just as bad as charging a smash as a ledge trap.
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Maurox vs DDD"]0:06 No, bad. You do not approach with slowfall nair. That’s a landing option to stay safe. If you whiff that while going forwards you get punished.

0:08 See, what’d I tell you?

Everything up to 0:52 was very nicely done. The only bad thing was you didn’t punish his Waddle throws. You gotta react and DB him for that.

0:52 You went forward while landing with a fair. You didn’t get punished but you could have easily gotten grabbed.

0:54 Why the DS? I’m going to assume either a panic reaction or that you tried to reverse DS to hit the roll. If it’s the former, just remember you’re fighting DDD. Staying calm is super important. If the latter, go to training mode. You can’t make simple execution errors like that.

0:57 I probably would have countered the fsmash instead of trying to beat it out, but it worked for you so no complaints.

You’re jumping a little bit too much. If you don’t intend on making an attempt to hit DDD, stay on the ground more. All you’re doing is committing and looking to get punished on landing. Also, it ruins your ability to punish things that would be a matter of muscle memory to punish had you been on the ground (see the waddle toss at 1:00).

1:07 You get grabbed for the first time. It looks like you FF’d it part way through nair. You’re trying to land with using nair as a wall. You want to slowfall it in order to let you drift backwards longer and the hitbox stays out longer as well.

You get put on the ledge and you immediately try to get up. You get punished. You try to get up again immediately. It takes him an extra swing but you get punished for this too. If you’re going to be impatient on the ledge vs. a good DDD, don’t even bother playing against them. Be smart, and be patient. Not to say that immediate actions are always bad, but you just want to be very careful on the ledge vs. this damn penguin.

1:19 You get put to the other ledge, and you try to get up immediately again. Patience is a virtue. Embrace is. This leads to your stock being lost.

1:26 to 1:37 you play the MU beautifully, I love it. 1:37 he uses a get-up attack. You have to know the ranges on characters’ get-up attacks both > and < 100%. If you spaced yourself better that fsmash would have taken his stock. Also, don’t forget about stutter stepping.

1:39 Panic DS again I assume. Be careful with those.

1:43 You landing fair into his shield. It appears you know the MU well enough to know to not do this. You got grabbed.

1:50 to 1:55 You had the start of a good ledge trap going. Just remember nair outranges fair so nair there would have knocked him back to the ledge. But you falling fair forward hoping to get lucky (work on spacing for ledge options) and you get grabbed again.

2:01 Thank you for not jumping

2:01-2:14 Your ledge game (when you’re on the ledge) is just very lacking overall. Learn how to get up vs. different characters. React to their actions. Watch your spot dodges when you do manage to get up because they’re common and easy to grab (or hit otherwise) afterwards to throw you back out.

2:13 Watch the DS. It cost you your stock.

2:23 Retreat the uair.

2:24/5 He’s already demonstrated his ability to shield skid cancel CG you consistently. Even if he messes up you’ll hit his shield with DS. The risk/reward is terrible imo. Roll through DDD (they never expect it… ever) or just hold away and walk out of the CG if they decide to try to bait a DS.

2:33 Fsmash

2:39 FH rising fair. SH rising fair can be dash grabbed on PS (as demonstrated here).

2:43 Tech it

2:45 Another whiffed DS.

3:16 Had you been on the ground and walking you could have DB’d him easily for the waddle throw

Whenever you’re offstage you have a tendency to always drift back towards the stage from the beginning. Mix it up. Go towards it, away from it, straight down, FF, slowfall, early DS, etc etc. You’re predictable is fairly linear even though you’re good at managing your midair jump.

Game 2:
Very first thing you do NOT want to CP DDD here. DDD can get the lead easier than you in general and this stage promotes camping. If you get grabbed on a transformation you can get infinited. You want to CP BF, Brinstar, etc.

4:07 When you dtilt you need to have your eyes glued to the opponent. One of the best things about dtilt is the fact that it ends faster than rolls and spot dodges and is pretty much safe on shield. You need to react to anything they do when you dtilt. Instead you had a plan and you stuck to the plan and DB1’d away from where DDD was and you got grabbed.

4:18 He was in the air above you. You want to stay on the ground and **** his landings. Jumping right into his range… not the best idea.

4:22 Same as 4:07. You needed to dash forward a little bit more to DB here.

4:33 You need to be walking more.

4:38 Take the guaranteed punish- DB. Don’t get greedy and try for smashes.

You’re still being a bit impatient on the ledge (and you should have teched that).

5:04 DB is your best punishing move (in general). Choose your punishes.

5:10 You want to be below DDD, not level with him- you got bair’d

From then until 5:43 you were playing really well again. You need to play like this ALL the time. Not just when you have momentum- I recognize how difficult that is, but you have to do it.

5:43 You FF at a spacing w/ fair where you were guaranteed to get grabbed.

6:25 Counter obvious fsmashes

Yeah… you don’t want to spot dodge out of CG…

Your second stock was lost because you keep drifting towards the stage. You gotta mix it up.

You’re really good at dtilting DDD

Your biggest problem is your ledge play. When you’re on the ledge you take way too much damage and let yourself get pressured too hard.

There’s more to say about game 2, but it’s all a repeat of what happened game 1
[/COLLAPSE]


Ankoku, I'll do yours later tonight. I have to go to a wedding/reception now though.

EDIT: By that I mean- I'll start them now and fall asleep while working on them the post them up for you sometime early tomorrow afternoon since I don't have any classes Friday after noon.
DUDE THANKS
COMINGSOON MORE MATCHS from colombia
 

Cygnet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
115
Thank you so much, CJ! (Really, I can't thank you enough for such an incredibly comprehensive critique!) :)

I'll definitely take everything you said to heart and think about it the next time I play!
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
Cygnet- I didn't mean to be mean when I said they looked like you were messing around, but I hope you can understand why I thought that after reading my thoughts on it.

Ankoku- Sorry about the wait:


[COLLAPSE="Vs pika"]0:07 Don’t be against the idea of falling with uair. It’s an underused and underappreciated option. Marths get too focused on fair and ignore other amazing options in the air they have when appropriate. This specific time is a great example. Pika FHing is likely to lead to a Tjolt even at bad range (because people make mistakes). Since you can’t FF a special, uair would have been an amazing option.

0:15 Pika is small. You have to FF your nair to have a chance to hit him.

0:18 It’s one thing to AD into the ground later on in a match as a mix-up, but at the beginning you never want to do this. Every competent player will be looking for this to happen to punish it.

0:23 You whiff fsmash and try to cover yourself with… utilt. Utilt is laggy and doesn’t hit low (keep in mind Pika is small). You want to dtilt, ftilt, jump away, walk away, etc. You get grabbed from utilt lag.

0:26 Do you claw? This fair you whiffed should have been retreated from the beginning. It’s a LOT easier to do perfect retreating fairs by clawing. Additionally, you need to be FFing your fairs when you use them for zoning. That’s the second reason you were punished. You floated in the air so Pika had enough time to roll and then utilt before you exited fair lag. Fair in the air takes a LONG time to end.

0:38 Pika’s dtilt outranges yours =( If your dtilt is spot dodged running in a bad idea since Pika’s best option is to immediately dtilt you back.

0:42 You’re offstage and jump bair to hit pika. Pika was almost level with you so jump bair was very unlikely to hit while normal bair would have. Even if Pika jumped, bair’s vertical hitbox is HUGE and would have been likely to have still made contact. But, more importantly than that, be careful with you jump offstage. I have no idea if this is a habit or a one time thing- but it’s one of the biggest problems most players have that I’ve seen. So I’m going to call it almost every time I see it.

Immediately afterwards (including the dair into that stage… no comment) you had Pika cornered on the ledge and you just walked away. Never give up positioning and stage control unless absolutely necessary

Throughout your first stock, you have whiffed fsmash or hit shield with it three out of three times. You have to be more conservative with it. It’s laggy and easily punished on shield.

When going back to the stage be careful not to straight on drift right at the stage. FF a little, drift backwards, etc. Drifting right at the stage all the time means you die like you did fairly easily.

1:10 First thing you do after respawning? You go for another fsmash. Granted I almost agree with this one since you had invincibility frames to cover you. However people instinctively shield when you’re invincible. I would have tried to grab or dtilt to set up a ledge trap.

1:15 More fsmash

1:16 Double utilt? Really? Pika is small. Tiny. Utilt hits high. It MIGHT have worked the first time but the second time Pika had landed and there was literally no chance of it connecting. Grab is your best option here. DB is you expect a spot dodge. I wouldn’t recommend DB at all since the spacing for it is terrible.

1:19 Pika’s thunder is kind of weird. If it hits his body then there is significantly less lag on it. However, with thunder NOT making contact w/ Pika’s body he lags for days. You had plenty of time to FF fair, uair, nair. You might even have had enough time to FF grab or dsmash.

1:45-1:48 Don’t corner yourself. Luckily you were able to jump over him and reverse the situation. Only to roll away from him and give up the stage control again. I recognize the panic-y situation of having your back to your opponent while stuck in shield- but rolling is almost always the wrong answer. Bair, nair OoS. Turn around grab etc. In your case I would have suggested dtilt or ftilt.

1:54 I can’t be 100% sure, but if I had to guess you had a flowchart in mind. There’s no reason you should have tried to dtilt there which had start-up lag when you could have just shielded the tjolt. Be more reactive and flexible.

2:04 Another utilt

2:08 I’m torn here. My initial thought is “DB4Down = bad” But then I immediately stop being ******** and go “Well, idk. He was close to the ledge so the possibility that DB1-3 would knock him offstage and the DB4 would connect is fairly high.” Looking back on it, it was obviously not the right decision. However in the moment I can easily understand the choice and would probably have done so myself.

2:12 You have to learn the DS regrab trick. You would have gotten back to the ledge quicker and quite possibly gimped him as a result.

2:25 More whiffed fsmash. I would have thought “jab or ftilt” here. And while even those would have missed and probably got you punished, they were better options overall. Unless it tippered, fsmash still wouldn’t have killed and only gotten stale.

2:29 Walking away from a ledge pressure situation (again giving up stage control) and fsmashing does NOT qualify as a good ledge trap… Quit trying to get kills. You keep getting punished for it. Let the kills come to you.

2:37 Your first connected fsmash and while probably not an ideal time to use it, it’s the first time I’ve actually been willing to agree with as a good option.

2:48 More fsmash. We all know you’re looking for the kill- especially Z. Quit trying so hard and you will succeed. /Sounds kinda zen actually

3:04 That was an… interesting choice to say the least. He had just respawned so there was no chance of it actually breaking his shield. Was that supposed to be a DB? If so then no big deal, finger fumbles happen and then you chose what was probably the best option there. If is was actually supposed to be a SB… then well, it’s an interesting choice and I’d be interested in hearing the thought process behind choosing it.

3:12 He was lagging from dair so you weren’t under any immediate threat. Dropping your shield and dashing/walking away are good options that accomplish the same thing as rolls do when not under direct pressure/a possible threat. Unfortunately people still default to rolls in that situation though. Walking is better for microspacing and allows you to give up the very minimum about of stage control necessary. Walking is also significantly more difficult to punish than rolls (and to a lesser extent, dashing is less easy to punish than rolls as well).

3:15 I’m really not sure if Z’s reaction time is amazing, he read your spot dodge, or he just threw it out there. Either way, spot dodging on a platform when your opponent is below you is very very basic and something people look for just like ADing into the ground. Jump away OoS or if you have awesome tech skill, platform drop OoS.

I’m going to assume 3:24 was a technical error and you were trying to wave bounce counter onto the stage. Training mode is your friend. Don’t make execution errors.

3:40 Stop with the DB4Down. Z should really be SDIing it >_>

3:42 FF uair to utilt is a good way to catch landings- assuming they’re landing near you. Pika however was moving a bit away from you making it unlikely to hit. You should have dtilted or walked for a grab.

3:49 Jab or PS. Ftilting Tjolts is quite laggy. You then follow it by a (buffered?) utilt. Watch and react. That utilt had zero chance of connecting unless he jumped back into it after landing. Turn around dtilt, grab were your best 2 options.

3:52 That jump was hella risky. Even though it worked out, I’m against it. You were offstage, jumping into an attack, and you had the option of recovering more safely.


4:03 While it’s silly and largely inconsequential- every time you SDI out of Pika’s dsmash you keep jumping very very soon afterwards; typically to a platform.

4:04 DS OoS

4:15-4:17 2 whiffed fsmashes in about 2.5 seconds. You’re getting thirsty for a kill again. Patience patience patience. You got usmashed and set up for a LOT of platform pressure.

Throughout the game, you used fsmash 9.5 (I counted the flow chart nair->fsmash that you did where the nair killed as the half) times- yes I counted- and only hit with it once. You’re using it way too much and trying to kill with it instead of using it as a spaced punishing move.

The other 2 games are more of the same thing.

You give up stage control a lot for no reason.

You use your second jump offstage a LOT for no reason putting you in potentially terrible situations. However, when you do recover correctly, you do it very intelligently.

You do begin to counter tjolts which is interesting. Make sure you know how quick Pika is though to make sure that you are out of range to get hit/grabbed after the fact.

Too many whiffed fsmashes and bad utilts.

You double fair/don’t FF a bit too much for my taste but you do it safer and smarter than a lot of Marths so I can’t complain too much.

You use ftilt really… interestingly. I don’t know if I like it or not, but it certainly works for you so keep it up.

You dtilt in really good situations to use it. Make sure you take notice of the spacing though. Walk away dtilt adds very little time and gives it a LOT more safety overall.

Your approach back to the stage is very simple. You seem to be always holding towards the stage and you don’t really mix it up… ever.

You are surprisingly patient on the ledge compared to a lot of other Marths I watch so that was refreshing. You seem to know when to retreat your ledge hopped nairs back to the ledge most of the time so I was happy to watch that. There are a few times you get a bit over aggressive on the ledge, but by large you do really well there.

You really need to learn the DS regrab trick.

You have a tendency to roll out of any situation you don’t feel completely comfortable in. Be aware of other options.

You dair into the stage… a LOT. FF fair and FF uair are landing options too.[/COLLAPSE]

Okay... I did the last 8 matches.. Nike, Shaya, Mike, Kadaj, Rei, P-3, Zano, Minty, Ramin... you guys get the next ones so watch this thread more >_>
/tired
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
Thanks, C.J! I'll keep in mind my impatience on KOs and giving up of ledge pressure. And my tendency to roll.
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
Okay... I did the last 8 matches.. Nike, Shaya, Mike, Kadaj, Rei, P-3, Zano, Minty, Ramin... you guys get the next ones so watch this thread more >_>
/tired
Hi, you've reached Shaya's phone. I'm currently unavailable so please leave a message and your number and I'll get back to you.

*beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*
 

Player-3

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
8,994
Location
Georgia
oh **** people actually ask for critiques?


i'm not as good as cj at critiquing, but i have alot of free time between classes nowadays so i'll visit here more
 

ScareMl

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Northern California

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
Okay my turn!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn5b-fI1AW0


[COLLAPSE=" "]
Pre-johns/tech errors/don't bother mentioning these because I hated myself as soon as I did all of them and realized how stupid they were/that I need to go to training mode.
The shieldbreaker at 1:37 was supposed to be a DB.
Yes my approach at 1:50 was ********, no I don't know what I was thinking
My pivot grab at 2:04 keeps happening when I try to CG someone- it's certainly not on purpose. Someone tell me why >_<
2:06/3:27 was me being greedy
Not sure where my jump went my first death
3:09 was supposed to be a B-reverse SB (me being greedy again)
3:48.... yeah I got nothing
5:27 I REALLY hate his spotdodge -_____-
I need to watch my DS[/COLLAPSE]

That being said, tear me apart please ^__^
 

Player-3

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
8,994
Location
Georgia
i'd help you out but i honestly dont know what to say lol

only thing i really noticed was every time he managed to get close to you you got scared and would shield or up b or do something unsafe, honestly i think if that happens i would just roll away or try to grab him first, i really can't help you in that matchup since you're so much better than me at it lol
 

Nike.

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
5,823
Location
SA-Town, Texas
I know it's how Marth is supposed to be played, but omg it's so boringgggggg :(
/i'llneverjoinyou

You lost the momentum when he was over 120% on this second stock. He started spamming his broken dodges and you were electing to do fsmash everytime. I understand why, but it still requires really good timing on your part. He got alot of free damage on your last stock because of this. I like pivot grab (outlasts the broken lack of punishable frames on his dodges) or dtilt (mainly when he's airdodging from the ledge).

6:04 was the PERFECT chance for you to use randall and get rid of your RCO lag. I was sad when you didn't do it :(

I don't think you were capitalizing when he was on the ledge. While you punished getup attack perfectly, he had a habit of air dodging back on safely because you'd give him too much breathing room. You also had a perfect chance to grab his upb on his second stock, but you usmashed instead. I only bring it up, though, because he lived x)

Outside of that, I think you can already look and see where something went wrong on mostly everything else.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
i'd help you out but i honestly dont know what to say lol

only thing i really noticed was every time he managed to get close to you you got scared and would shield or up b or do something unsafe, honestly i think if that happens i would just roll away or try to grab him first
Noted, and added. I know somewhere in the back of my head grabbing him/IC first is a good thing. It just scares me :(
But I must break that habit!
i really can't help you in that matchup since you're so much better than me at it lol
<3 I take any and all critiques! Even if it's something as simple as a situation that I would walk away dtilt in. I appreciate all input :)

I know it's how Marth is supposed to be played, but omg it's so boringgggggg :(
/i'llneverjoinyou
It's not ALWAYS the right way to play Marth. But it is vs DDD and IC for damn sure.

You lost the momentum when he was over 120% on this second stock. He started spamming his broken dodges and you were electing to do fsmash everytime. I understand why, but it still requires really good timing on your part.
Didn't even realize I was doing that. Fsmashing too much has ALWAYS been a problem for me- even when I consciously tell myself not to do it.

I like pivot grab
We know (<3)
Nah, I don't pivot grab anywhere near enough. Noted and will work on it.

6:04 was the PERFECT chance for you to use randall and get rid of your RCO lag. I was sad when you didn't do it :(
I tried it once. He immediately went down on me. So I was stuck on him, with RCO (I landed as he began moving down), and it was pulling me down. And for some reason YI hates letting characters recover and even with both jumps and DS I barely made it on the screen. I recognize that will probably never happen again and it's a good option; I can't make myself do it. At 6:04 I even thought, "Hmm, this could work... wait... there was that one time... nope.avi"
/scaredycat

I don't think you were capitalizing when he was on the ledge. While you punished getup attack perfectly, he had a habit of air dodging back on safely because you'd give him too much breathing room.
You're completely right. My ledge pressure game was super lacking outside of the first time it happened at 0:38. I'll make sure to focus a lot more when it comes to ledge trapping.

You also had a perfect chance to grab his upb on his second stock, but you usmashed instead. I only bring it up, though, because he lived x)
I forgot to look at his %. Agreed completely.

Outside of that, I think you can already look and see where something went wrong on mostly everything else.
Noted, appreciated, and will work on incorporating.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
I wanted to nair it but wasn't ever really at the perfect spacing for it so I was definitely kind of one track minded. However, now that I think about it, I don't really know much on how else to beat it. I'll start using DB1 for sure though. Appreciated!

And added to my DDD guide- thanks Shaya!
 

Zigsta

Disney Film Director
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
8,316
Location
Burbank, CA
NNID
Zigsta
3DS FC
1547-5526-6811
I like how Nike completely ignored the guy who asked for help in the Bowser MU. What a jerk.
 

IG88

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Austin, Tx
i'm gonna have to try that aerial DB1 next time i get to play a D3, never knew what to do in that situation either haha. and zigsta, i feel like you just name search "bowser" in hopes of finding somewhere new to take your trolling
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247

IG88

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Austin, Tx
i'm not an expert or anything and only have time to watch a little right now, but there were plenty of times i saw you getting shield grabbed due to poor spacing. if you can stay in/closer to tipper range they often won't be able to get the shield grab just because marth's range is wonderful, take advantage of it. this happened a lot at the beginning of the first match in WFs, didn't seem to be as bad as the match progressed though.

i also saw a lot of opportunities for pivot grabs that you missed out on which made me sad since its wario and all, usually by rolling behind him. like i said i only got to watch part of the first game in WFs so keep that in mind. i noticed a few times when wario was spamming his spot dodge, where instead of rolling behind him and leaving yourself open to get punished a well timed grab or pivot grab would've set you up for some of the grab release work we all love. there were a few of his landings that you could've done the same on but the opportunities were sometimes wasted with unnecessary rolling.

now to hope i don't get flamed for saying something stupid lol

EDIT-- I'm sure you know this but it just crossed my mind, and is something that I sadly enough never thought of as an option until recently. I think i only saw once or twice in the part i watched where this would've been useful, but when someone is pressuring your shield from behind a simple turn around grab can be very effective in gaining back momentum or resetting the situation
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
i'm not an expert or anything and only have time to watch a little right now, but there were plenty of times i saw you getting shield grabbed due to poor spacing. if you can stay in/closer to tipper range they often won't be able to get the shield grab just because marth's range is wonderful, take advantage of it. this happened a lot at the beginning of the first match in WFs, didn't seem to be as bad as the match progressed though.
Probably true.

now to hope i don't get flamed for saying something stupid lol
Everybody, at least the should, is open to critiques from anybody- no matter how unknown or level of play. You never know when something useful may be said. Keep doing what you're doing, you won't get flamed. At worst politely corrected, like below =)

EDIT-- I'm sure you know this but it just crossed my mind, and is something that I sadly enough never thought of as an option until recently. I think i only saw once or twice in the part i watched where this would've been useful, but when someone is pressuring your shield from behind a simple turn around grab can be very effective in gaining back momentum or resetting the situation
While it is true that this works vs a LOT of characters Wario isn't really one of them. His mobility and his ability to land on either side of you at will (since you have to commit to grabbing one way or the other). Additionally, because of how safe his moves are you have to be REALLY quick with it. So, if you guess wrong or are too slow with your grab, Wario can buffer spotdodge/jump/roll away/hit you first/etc. If he were fighting MK, DK, DDD, etc you'd be right (MK's attacks on shield (specifically aerials) are surprisingly unsafe on shield). However, vs Wario I find DS OoS (if you feel like risking it) with a hitbox behind Marth as well is a better option. The BEST option though is FH dair OoS (retreating of course) in my opinion. It hits both sides of Marth (one frame faster than turn around grab OoS actually not that it matters) while allowing you to move away if you whiff and make space. If you're on BF it ACs on the platform level above it, and if you're going to just land straight onto the stage you can still jump/aerial before you land.
*Note- this applies mainly to cross-up aerials which is what I assume was happening when he was getting pressured from behind since it's Wario. However, it does still apply to grounded moves as well. Although Bair OoS, turn around grab (except for the amazing pokes in the game, Marth dtilt, MK, dtilt, MK ftilt, etc), and DS are very good options here as well.

I'll start watching the matches now and have the critiques done... ehhh, probably tomorrow afternoon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom