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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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ScareMl

ScareMl

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Metakill said:
Someone can? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DksCxy8mGfQ
Like 3 or 4 months ago, but my gamestyle with Marth didn't get better of diferent, and now without MK, Marth will be my main so I need some tips please :3
Click to expand...
1st match

1:49 dolphin slash dude

2:04 i think a better option would have been grab to d-air, it makes it harder for her to recover and easier for you to gimp or edgehog her

2:34 when you were hit, you need to jump, db1, then shieldbreaker. that db1 will give you a lot of extra lift

ok in general, you have a bad habit of running to dash attack (im not sure if this is on purpose or you're trying to do a fair or something) and you need to stop that. your opponent could have punished you waay more for those. and then you dash too much in general. I briefly looked through the other matches, and i don't think i saw you walk once. Marth's walk is very very very good, he just has so many more options and spacing opportunities with his walk than his dash, esp. at close range. for dancing blade, eh i wouldn't always use the down one but it worked for you so ok. and one last thing, when you feel panicked like after he took your second stock on game 1, you'll start recklessly running and spamming f-air and rampage attacking. slow down bud, fighting aggressively is not always the right way to go with Marth.

Other than that, solid Marth, i liked the platform cancelling and you have your fundamental spacing and few fancy tricks up your sleeve. good job
 
Reizilla

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Something I notice in most Marths (including myself, though in a different way, typically) is that you try to go too hard for what you want, rather than what would be good in the situation. Forcing kills is bad enough, but forcing cheap tricks and whatnot at all percents is just as bad, if not worse.
 
C.J.

C.J.

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Reizilla said:
Something I notice in most Marths (including myself, though in a different way, typically) is that you try to go too hard for what you want, rather than what would be good in the situation. Forcing kills is bad enough, but forcing cheap tricks and whatnot at all percents is just as bad, if not worse.
Click to expand...
Despite your trolling, you are a smart person!
 
C.J.

C.J.

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*Disclaimer*
I didn't watch more than like 2 minutes of any of them, but I watched at least a minute of each of them.
*end disclaimer*


[COLLAPSE="Jeos"]Be more patient on the ledge

Stop with the full hopping/double jumping for no reason. All you're doing is allowing them to get under you and **** you.

Another huge problem with like... every Marth I've seen recently is something you do too, and I have absolutely zero idea where it came from. Quit using rising fair every time you jump. It stupidly easy to PS and then they're underneath you juggling you. Or they can fair you between hits. Or any other number of things. Rising aerials are good, really good. They're not good when you do them every time/super frequently though. Marth's fair/aerial game is dominating because of how versatile and open you can use your attacks timing wise. You SH, now the opponent has to guess when you're going to use fair/nair/uair. Double fair? Fair uair? FF fair? rising fair? Slowfall nair? Empty SH into FF grab? They don't know. By using rising fair all the time you limit your ability to vary the timing of your attacks a LOT and completely lose the ability to force them to hold shield for a free FF grab.

What is up with your punishes? Dtilt and fair are not punishing moves. They're zoning and poking moves. Fsmash, dsmash, DB, and usmash are your punishers. Use those when you PS MK's dsmash/you roll behind lucas as he's changing dsmash. Not dtilt/fair.

One huge thing that I saw, that might be a REALLY easy fix is when you were on the ledge in one of the matches and you DB1'd away, and baired and then regrabbed the ledge. Then you DB1'd away and MK ran away from the ledge, and you still baired (and then you got ledgehogged and died). I think you were just looking at Marth instead of your opponent. You already know where Marth is and what he's going to do. You're controlling him. If he does something that you didn't tell him to do, go into training mode/fight lv3 CPUs until you can control Marth perfectly. There is absolutely no reason to watch your own character. You want to watch your opponent's character because that is what you're going to be reacting to.

Why do you keep running offstage just to double jump back on? Just SH instead. Don't jump (and especially don't use your midair jump) unless necessary. Putting yourself offstage voluntarily for no gain is dumb.

Grab releases Grab releases Grab releases Grab releases

You don't use uair anything remotely close to enough.

Your rolls are fairly predictable.

Counter committed moves (don't roll away from G&W's dair when it's coming at you. He can't stop it, just hit downB).

You spotdodge at terrible times (e.g. you spotdodged at the end of MK's spotdodge when you could have just grabbed/dsmashed/usmashed/DBed and after shielding multiple hits of Lucas's dair you spotdodged the last one as he landed with 2 years of lag that you missed an opportunity to punish because you were stuck spotdodging)

Walk. Really, just walk. I didn't see you do it, like, at all. It's like a dash, only not quite as fast (still the fastest walk in the game, faster than many characters' air speeds and some characters' dash/runs) and you still have access to your entire moveset- jab, ftilt, dtilt, fsmash, dsmash, dash attack, specials, aerials, etc etc. Don't limit yourself. Additionally, dash->shield is 17 frames. Why let yourself be completely open for such a huge period of time. Walk.[/COLLAPSE]
 
Jeos

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thanks a lot for the info, about what you said, I realise that I never took my best option, instead I was just looking for what I wanted.

About practicing with marth in training mode, well I don't have a wii, so I can't do that, the only time I can play is when I go to a friend's house, so that's the only time I can practice movement or stuff while playing against my friend, that's my main form of practising for tournaments, it's the only thing I can do for now.

And for the abundance of double jumps and random things, it's because he knows me way too well to do conventional things, we've played for over a year together so that's the reason :V

Thanks a lot again for your tips
 
C.J.

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Wow, I'm impressed. At a glance you jump too much. Will do a full critique later on.

Oh, and while this may be blasphemy since you live in Europe, walking>dashing
 
Roxas M

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Opponent | Matches Vato_Break :diddybrawl:| M1 M2 M3 M4 |
Vato_Break :snakebrawl: | M1 |

Can someone critique these matches? I could use some tips on improving in general, and especially in the Diddy MU.

It seems like no matter what i'm doing, i'm just hitting shield 98% of the time and not getting anywhere when I need to put some damage on my opponent.
 
mikeHAZE

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right off the bat, i'll tell you that you are too slow in your decisions. You're second guessing yourself which isn't necessarily bad, but it is effecting your fluidity.

Other times you'll be in an advantageous position, but you'll react to fast to try to capitalize on a punish when you could have simply just waited.

First match at :40 for example, you were behind him while he was shielding but messed up the punish. Watch for more situations like this as they happen a lot (another example at :49 with the missed fsmash. You could have gone closer to try to get a more solid punish.)

To reiterate my point on speed, look at the situation at 1:00. You waited a long time before moving really close to the edge when you could have just tried to edgeguard him AND grabbed the ledge.

Your reads are really solid but you need to work on more basic things like punishes instead of forcing reads.


i really like your usage of counter by the way.


ending of game one was really dissapointing. you threw that match away. You have a problem with wanting to retaliate really bad and it shows when you try to recover to the middle of the stage when you're hit off of stage. Instead, use the ledge to your advantage.
 
Roxas M

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Counter can't solve all my problems.

I have a problem with making some basic decisions/punishes because I honestly don't know the basics very well, and can't figure out a way to work on that. I usually ended up doing character specific gimmicks but I can't really do consistent punishes.

I'm pretty sure the reason why I was making slow decisions was that I didn't know what to do in most situations. Goes back to the "don't know the basic things" problem.

The recovery was me not really know which option would be safer because in the other matches, Vato would get be into a ledge trap where he would be able to force me to recover onstage and he could punish it. I tried to mix it up by going straight for the middle of the stage instead, but when I saw that he wasn't going to move, I was already committed to going right where he was so I just forward air'd.


Thanks a lot for the critique Mike, it'll help a lot.
 
Mr-R

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C.J. said:
Wow, I'm impressed. At a glance you jump too much. Will do a full critique later on.

Oh, and while this may be blasphemy since you live in Europe, walking>dashing
Click to expand...
[COLLAPSE=" "]
[/COLLAPSE]
 
Cygnet

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Hi! I'm a beginner who's really horrible, but I'm hoping to change that (eventually.....)!

If anyone is available to critique my videos, thank you so much! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0LGrvXwKh4&t=7m6s (vs. ROB)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CVBaAEPxdY&feature=channel_video_title (vs. Marth - I'm "!")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm5vIJZy4Gg&feature=relmfu (vs. Marth - I'm "!")

I'm extremely horrible at the Marth ditto..... any tips? :/

Also, this is going to sound like literally the worst question possible, but I kill myself a lot..... how do you prevent that? (Serious question.... T___T)

Thank you very much again! :)
 
Haze~

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_Kadaj_ said:
Ramin before you come to the U.S. for Apex PLEASE incorporate walking even if it's just a tiny bit, like the smallest of margins. PLEASE!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Walking is recomended to "feel out" your opponent, can't really say walking is "better" than dashing cause if you know what your doing it doesn't really matter.
 
C.J.

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Haze~ said:
Walking is recomended to "feel out" your opponent, can't really say walking is "better" than dashing cause if you know what your doing it doesn't really matter.
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Uhhh, no?
Dashing means that for 17 frames you can't shield and WILL get hit.
Dashing means you might trip.
Dashing means that you can't change direction efficiently.
Dashing means that you have SEVERELY limited your options.
Dashing means if you get knocked out you have to go through all of those risks again in order to get back in.
Dashing means you either have a terrible grab, or a slower one (having to shield first).

Walking means you always have access to every defensive option you have.
Walking means you are always going to get to where you want to go at the exact same time that you think you'll get there.
Walking means if you need to, you have the capacity to retreat/turn around immediately.
Walking means you have access to all of your actions (smashes, tilts, and most importantly you have access to your anti-airs).
Walking means you always have your amazing grab range available to you.
Walking means you have access to start dashing whenever you want, but not the other way around.

The ONLY things dashing has over walking is the fact that it closes in space very well for getting to the ledge to apply ledge pressure, closing space to follow-up attacks, if you like your get-up attack after tripping, and to get out of bad situations by running away.

Seems like walking wins to me.
 
Haze~

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Its all depending on who your opponent is and who adapts first, Take mikehaze for example for his good walking game, when i see him losing to tearbear for i can't help but thinking he should adapt with some dashmindgames here and there cause apperently walking isn't giving him the win, marth's dash: > < > ex is without overusing it great and puts your opponent in a confused stressed situation and when your in his face with the shield.. you have great oos options.

So your missing the point, i ment dashing when you retreat dash and turnaround but i don't know what its called lol, Imo walk as much as you can(i would too) but when my opponent just outplays me i start adapt with dashes/ dashturnarounds and it works well when i dont use it to much but when i know he/she won't expect it(took it from mr.r) facts wasn't my requested quote from you.
 
vato_break

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mike hasn't lost to tearbear in a good 4+ months..so thats kind of redundant, lol. Walking has more uses than dashing overall which would make it better. Should one only walk and not dash? no, you mix in both to stay unpredictable. And the turnaround dash you explained is more of a gimmick than anything, what if it doesn't confuse them? they can hit you during your run animation. Also if you are being outplayed it's not because you are walking, it's because you are being predictable. You can punish anything while you are walk, if you run your option are much more limited. Never rely on mindgames, they can only get you so far.
 
vato_break

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a lot of the situations mike lost in were not from walking. Walking does not = win, just likelys the chance. it was a pretty close game too. i aplogize for the ill information, that was a tournament i did nto attend. mike has lost a set to tearbear but, however; my point still stands.
 
Zankoku

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Let's try not to get too confrontational about walking vs running, guys. They both have their uses throughout a game, especially since Marth has such an exceptional walking speed.
 
Jeos

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King Beef said:
Still a relative newblood to Marth compared to my experience with Peach, so go ahead and pick me apart guys. Thanks in advance! :)

King Beef :marth: vs. Shugo :falco: 8
King Beef :marth: vs. Shugo :falco: 9
King Beef :marth: vs. Shugo :falco: 11
King Beef :marth: vs. Shugo :falco: 12
King Beef :marth: vs. Shugo :falco: 13
Click to expand...
King Beef
First, a lot of dashing and when you walk, is not in the best situation so work on finding the best situation for walk instead of dashing, it helps quite a bit.
Also you rush a lot Upsmash and DS, Upsmash is a punisher so use it for well... punish, and DS is used on reaction and OoS. But you might try to wait your Upsmashes for punishing falco's recovery, 'cause you did it quite early and that means you're warning him to don't recover on stage, considering you don't pressure on the ledge.

When you're on air, getting back to the stage, always remember if you have your second jump or not, so you can stall a little with DB1 and get safely to the edge. On your 9th match, you rushed your DS back to the stage and by miracle you didn't die, because a Bair with you DIing out to the edge should have killed you. By the way, on your 9th match you lost beacuse you faired him without enough momentum to get back to the stage, I don't know if you just miscalculated the distance but if you don't that was a terrible mistake, in situations like that (when your opponent doesn't pressure you on the ledge) is better to aim to the edge.

This one is imperative, DON'T DB1 STALL INSIDE THE STAGE IN FRONT OF YOUR OPPONENT. I can't believe how Shugo didn't punished all those jumps>DB1, he could have punished you with every aerial. If that works specially for him, well that's understandable, but is something you must do barely once per match (for baiting mainly) to never, it keeps you on a bad spot, and screaming for a punish.

I noticed you missed a lot of Uairs... but raising, well, that's ok but you have to do it when you're almost 100% sure you're going to score the hit, or you're going to be far up from him if he AD, because if you don't autocancel on the ground, that means a lot of lag (you got killed by this on match 11th).

Try to used more mindgames for your landings and crossovers, because you were getting punished for always going behind Shugo (he could have punished more severely).
Match 11th, 3:23 you used jab when you should have killed him, well that's just an example of a lot of bad punishes, a DB would have been better, but that was a free smash.
At the end of that match, you allowed him to approach and did anything, I guess you just didn't react, but you must not allow that situation, because marth suffers a lot in the edge.

As a minor detail, you failed all your attempts to chaingrab falco, so for instead looking for all the grab, I recomend you to Fthrow twice, then Dthrow once and Fsmash, so you can rack up some damage instead of failing and getting punished.

As an overall, you have problems punishing accordingly the situation, so get familiar with marth for that. Also nicely done gimping falco's UpB, you should pressure him more offstage because he landed safely most the time like you did on the last match.

Hope it helps you :)

Edit: how can I hide the text? like in [post=2447]this post[/post]
 
Haze~

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vato_break said:
you changed your argumend from actual dashing to using the dash turn around gimmick which are two different things entirely.
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no i said i don't know what it was called exactly if you read, anyways i kingbeef got ***** for dashing, instead of dash first in the match he should simply walk first and approach with shield etc
 
vato_break

vato_break

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"can't really say walking is "better" than dashing cause if you know what your doing it doesn't really matter."

when you said this you were refering to the dashing to the gimmick then? So a gimmick, which is very punishable, is better than walking, which PUNISH options, is better? LOL they weren't talk about the gimmick btw they were talking about dashing aka running. so it was you who misinterpreted.
 
Cygnet

Cygnet

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Cygnet said:
Hi! I'm a beginner who's really horrible, but I'm hoping to change that (eventually.....)!

If anyone is available to critique my videos, thank you so much! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0LGrvXwKh4&t=7m6s (vs. ROB)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CVBaAEPxdY&feature=channel_video_title (vs. Marth - I'm "!")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm5vIJZy4Gg&feature=relmfu (vs. Marth - I'm "!")

I'm extremely horrible at the Marth ditto..... any tips? :/

Also, this is going to sound like literally the worst question possible, but I kill myself a lot..... how do you prevent that? (Serious question.... T___T)

Thank you very much again! :)
Click to expand...
Hi again! Sorry for being impatient, but I don't think anyone has looked at my videos....? (If someone has, I apologize.)

Thank you again! =]
 
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