• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Shaya

Shaya

　　 「chase you」　
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
／人◕‿‿◕人＼ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
Nike, you need to keep calm and collected and use your ground game (for much better effect than trying to combat egg throw and usmash and nair and neutral-b in the air).

Your spacing and landings were really off. Work on them. Try footstooling if you feel you have absolutely no space.
 
PEACE7

PEACE7

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
2,213
Location
Training Mode
Yo keys if you want I can re-upload those for you in good quality if you send me the replay file just message me if you want me to do that. I was going to critique it for you but the quality just pissed me off lol
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
207
Location
Madison, AL
I appreciate the help, Peace, but it was a tourney match that didn't have infinite replays on the wii I was using, so that's all I got. :S Thanks though.
 
clowsui

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
stop insisting on landing in. whole first stock + most of match you take a ton of damage for doing so

stop blindly dashing in. you let snake control the situation that way because your options are infinitely less than his at that point, you also eat big damage. see 0:36 - 0:50 where you have awkward positions + damage because you refuse to not approach

on that line of thought stop always trying to attack him, let him come to you. even though snake usually picks and chooses his approaches in this matchup and in general just kinda camps, trying to attack him all the time results in you taking bad trades + eating tons of bad damage like ftilts and grabs. 1:33 doesn't match the other points i made in this paragraph but this is why you should stop trying to attack all the time because it's very obvious...and you get punished for it as a result.

learn how to DI to avoid snake moves (mortar should hit rarely with dacus as an example). a second example is 1:25 - you wouldn't be caught below the lip if you just DI'd up. generally as a rule in this game you should hold up if you anticipate getting hit

in general it seems like you don't have a very good grasp of marth's capability of movement. learn how to move with marth and how to manipulate his hitboxes in a way that threaten the opponent
 
IG88

IG88

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Austin, Tx
i don't normally do this so someone please correct me if i'm wrong, but this is what i noticed.

i saw lots of dair's thrown out and i don't think i saw any of them hit. it's a move i try to avoid using on stage in most situations, simply because it's laggy enough to get punished hard if you miss.

when you went out to try and spike the snake, you put yourself into a bad position when instead you could've waited and pivot grabbed his landing (my personal choice) or if he goes to the ledge read his movements and react to them as best as possible.

i'm not sure if this is right at all but i've also found dtilt really useful in the snake MU and idr seeing you use that at all

like clowsui said above, you took a lot of damage that could've been avoided if you played more patiently. you continously attacked snake while he was holding a grenade and blowing yourself up, and you also made a habit of running directly over the C4 and just taking the detonation. this is probably off too, but i'm pretty sure C4 does around 18% damage when it's fresh so that'll add up real quick
 
Reizilla

Reizilla

The Old Lapras and the Sea
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
13,676
Shaaaaame :( I even switched to the Unified ruleset, just for you </3
 
D

diegot143

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
61
HI guys im diego/binks from houston. THese are my first youtube matches ever, other than the fact that i jump around too much what kind of advise can you guys give me. thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yciqh3lXHE

By the way i feel real comfortable with the pikachu match up as opposed to the snake or mk match ups where i feel much less comfortable.
 
Nike.

Nike.

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
5,823
Location
SA-Town, Texas
Holy crap, Diego. For someone's very first youtube vids, you have a really good marth.

Things I noticed:

  • You have a very sound pivot grab game. You recognize that it's a very good punish for baited air dodges and while approaching a shield (this always worked for you when you respawned and punished him for freezing in his shield). You missed a couple pivot grabs on the air dodge (I wanted to cream myself when I saw you do the fthrow-> pivot grab air dodge, my favorite trap as marth), but that's no biggie. What's important is that your able to get those reads and know how to punish them.

  • The tipper spacing you have is amazing. It looks as though you've been playing marth since the game first came out. I saw tippered nair kills, a beautiful dash attack punish, that fsmash punish at the end of the last game, followed by that juicy spike. Was awesome. keep the spacing up because your really good at it.

  • Using get up attack and rushed ledge jumps while your holding the ledge. These turned into a major habit, and Leaf punish you alot for it. Gotta play the patient game against Pika when your holding the ledge, he's one of those characters that can **** a marth on the ledge.

  • You also have a huge habit of trying to jump onto the stage as high as possible, simply to avoid the ledge completely. Leaf picked up on this and abused you for it. On game2, both of your last 2 stocks were lost because you used your second jump at a horrible time and got gimped for it. One time he simply charged fsmash by the ledge and you double jumped into it and died when you could have just went to the ledge. You also have a knack for using the double jump to get away from the grab combos. Leaf simply ran to your landing, power shielded your fair/nair/and grabbed you again. Kind of a rock/paper/scissors thing, but don't just waste your jump like that because he'll **** the landing everytime.

  • Upb punishes weren't working half the time. Sucks getting caught in that space where it feels like the opponent is way too close to you. I think you can already catch when you used it right/wrong though.

Overall I feel as though your very good at punishes, while at the same time your recovering habits need more work. Here's my recent tourney set against Leaf :)

Nike (Marth) vs Leaf (Pikachu) 1
I get ***** for doing the same bad ledge/double jump habits as you. Perfect example of what not to do lol.
Nike (Marth) vs Leaf (Pikachu) 2
Nike (Marth) vs Leaf (Pikachu) 3
Games 2&3 I get alot of punishes off air dodges with uair or pivot grab. Leaf's habits in particular become noticable when he's always on the ropes.

I hope this helped. Can't wait to meet you :]
 
D

diegot143

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
61
Nike. said:
Holy crap, Diego. For someone's very first youtube vids, you have a really good marth.

Things I noticed:

  • You have a very sound pivot grab game. You recognize that it's a very good punish for baited air dodges and while approaching a shield (this always worked for you when you respawned and punished him for freezing in his shield). You missed a couple pivot grabs on the air dodge (I wanted to cream myself when I saw you do the fthrow-> pivot grab air dodge, my favorite trap as marth), but that's no biggie. What's important is that your able to get those reads and know how to punish them.

  • The tipper spacing you have is amazing. It looks as though you've been playing marth since the game first came out. I saw tippered nair kills, a beautiful dash attack punish, that fsmash punish at the end of the last game, followed by that juicy spike. Was awesome. keep the spacing up because your really good at it.

  • Using get up attack and rushed ledge jumps while your holding the ledge. These turned into a major habit, and Leaf punish you alot for it. Gotta play the patient game against Pika when your holding the ledge, he's one of those characters that can **** a marth on the ledge.

  • You also have a huge habit of trying to jump onto the stage as high as possible, simply to avoid the ledge completely. Leaf picked up on this and abused you for it. On game2, both of your last 2 stocks were lost because you used your second jump at a horrible time and got gimped for it. One time he simply charged fsmash by the ledge and you double jumped into it and died when you could have just went to the ledge. You also have a knack for using the double jump to get away from the grab combos. Leaf simply ran to your landing, power shielded your fair/nair/and grabbed you again. Kind of a rock/paper/scissors thing, but don't just waste your jump like that because he'll **** the landing everytime.

  • Upb punishes weren't working half the time. Sucks getting caught in that space where it feels like the opponent is way too close to you. I think you can already catch when you used it right/wrong though.

Overall I feel as though your very good at punishes, while at the same time your recovering habits need more work. Here's my recent tourney set against Leaf :)

Nike (Marth) vs Leaf (Pikachu) 1
I get ***** for doing the same bad ledge/double jump habits as you. Perfect example of what not to do lol.
Nike (Marth) vs Leaf (Pikachu) 2
Nike (Marth) vs Leaf (Pikachu) 3
Games 2&3 I get alot of punishes off air dodges with uair or pivot grab. Leaf's habits in particular become noticable when he's always on the ropes.

I hope this helped. Can't wait to meet you :]
Click to expand...

thanks for the extremely good advise.
 
Reizilla

Reizilla

The Old Lapras and the Sea
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
13,676
Diego, despite what Shaya says and what Mr-R displays, fair and grounded DB are still Marth's best two moves. There were a number of times where it seemed like you threw out nair just because and it completely whiffed and get you punished, partially because Pikachu is so short. Same with the rising DB. I've personally never been a fan of that, aside from recovery/spacing purposes, so take that with a grain of salt, I guess. So yeah, just keep in mind that Pika is short and you're going to want to be able to hit down-front when you're close, unless you're retreating/fast falling the nair.

Really nice pivot grabs and you play surprisingly well for how new you say you are.
 
D

diegot143

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
61
Shun Goku Satsu said:
Diego, despite what Shaya says and what Mr-R displays, fair and grounded DB are still Marth's best two moves. There were a number of times where it seemed like you threw out nair just because and it completely whiffed and get you punished, partially because Pikachu is so short. Same with the rising DB. I've personally never been a fan of that, aside from recovery/spacing purposes, so take that with a grain of salt, I guess. So yeah, just keep in mind that Pika is short and you're going to want to be able to hit down-front when you're close, unless you're retreating/fast falling the nair.

Really nice pivot grabs and you play surprisingly well for how new you say you are.
Click to expand...
lol thanks i like you say how new i say i am as if there might be a little of bull corn going on there but i take that as a compliment if thats the case. I do use that nair bc if it lands you can follow it with another attack i saw that first with the european marths leon and Mr. R. The rising DB also seems to be a primarily european marth move imo but i use it bc its good in the mind game area. I know i have bad recovery habits, and like Nike pointed out i need to use my jumps more wisely lol. I agree the fair is really good especially the fact that the hit boxes are a little disjointed :awesome:.. I have so much to learn. Thanks very much for the advise and when you post videos il try to give advise too


i think leaf is gonna post more videos where he gets the best of me :( lol


also do you go to tournaments here bc we should meet also. im going to ozzfest 4
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
207
Location
Madison, AL
Hey, everybody. Sorry about my previous two videos posted. They were basically un-critique-able due to the horrible quality. I was able to get some matches this time (The Iron Brawl I, bracket matches).

Spade (Marth) vs T1J (Pit)
http://www.justin.tv/abxy_gaming_network/b/283860863
@1:32:19

Spade (Marth) vs Reflex (Wario)
http://justin.tv/abxy_gaming_network/b/283867829
@0:13:00

Critique whichever/both sets if you'd like :]

Any suggestions? Also, do you notice anything that could apply to my general marth strategies (not character-specific)?
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
207
Location
Madison, AL
diegot143 said:
Here are the rest of my matches with leaf, again my recovery seems to be my weakness, any suggestions?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8ImgrSCpfA&feature=feedu
Click to expand...
I've never critiqued anyone before, but I'll see what I can do.

You're a little too committed to your approaches (dashing). Be patient and don't be afraid to just walk in. I noticed you tend to counter quite a bit when you recover. Mix it up, because if your opponent picks up on it you will be punished hard, such as at 0:35.

Try to work on your spacing. Try to make every hit tipper, especially when landing with a fair so you don't get shieldgrabbed. Pika HATES your tipper range, as does most of the cast. Keep him off of you.

When pika gets an upsmash or uptilt, remember to DI to the side! This makes getting the thunder follow-up nearly impossible for pika. Also, you tend to continue to drift in whichever way you DI, so your opponent (from my understanding) was able to read you and dash past you, then thunder. 1:13, 5:11, and 6:26 are all examples.

As far as recovery goes, like I said, counter isn't always a good option. Also, take your time getting back from the ledge.

Dair (not fullhopped) onstage = laggy. You can be punished for this.

0:58 good pivot grab.
1:03 I try to stay away from upB OoS when my opponent is at low %s. Luckily you had Yoshi's Island to help you out :]
1:28-ish use your second jump + DI (not sure what direction) to get out of this juggling **** as best as you can. Airdodge/aerial to the ground isn't always the best option.
1:50 you're a little too close to the ledge, imo. Try to stay at tipper range.
2:00 uncharged shieldbreaker would have helped here.
Good patience on the ledge around 2:30
Good job DI'ing out of pika Dsmash.
4:38 good shieldbreaker usage.
5:08 upB OoS could work in this kind of situation.
Good pressure around 5:40-5:43.
5:45 Good upB.
6:10 Not sure if he true combo'd you, but always expect that nair after an Uair.
Good pivot grab at 7:03. Btw, Fthrow -> Fthrow -> Dthrow -> tippered Fsmash works on Pika at 0%.
Very Nice B-reversed shieldbreaker at 7:13
7:40 Pika read that jump. Try to Pshield if you are retreating, though he can still grab. It happens a couple of other times in the set.

Overall, you've got a very good Marth. I hope this helped, considering I've never critiqued anyone before. Hope I didn't seem too harsh. Anyone feel free to critique my critique.
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
207
Location
Madison, AL
Roxas M said:
I was wondering if I could get a critique on a friendly I had a few weeks ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrpjpGP8ri0

I don't get a chance to record myself playing 1v1 matches that often since everyone I play would rather do doubles lol.

Have fun tearing it apart watching it.
Click to expand...
Fair more. Don't get gimped/gimp yourself. Don't airdodge to the ground as much? Pay attention to the timer (against wario). Good usage of utilts below the platform. I can't really critique this one... :p IDK why though.
 
IG88

IG88

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Austin, Tx
i liked the utilts as well :] i'd like to see some more pivot grabs, maybe that's just me though
 
IG88

IG88

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Austin, Tx
Keys1281 said:
Anyone can feel free to critique mine as well. :]
Click to expand...
i only watched the very beginning of the pit one since i'm supposed to be studying lol, i'll watch all of it later though. what i noticed in the part i saw, was that a lot of the time when he shot arrows at you, you would jump, jump and air dodge, dash in, or roll around them. with projectiles like that i'd suggest walking forward and powershielding each one, when you do all the other stuff you leave yourself open for punishes and tend to take a lot of unnecessary damage
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
207
Location
Madison, AL
IG88 said:
i only watched the very beginning of the pit one since i'm supposed to be studying lol, i'll watch all of it later though. what i noticed in the part i saw, was that a lot of the time when he shot arrows at you, you would jump, jump and air dodge, dash in, or roll around them. with projectiles like that i'd suggest walking forward and powershielding each one, when you do all the other stuff you leave yourself open for punishes and tend to take a lot of unnecessary damage
Click to expand...
Thank you. I hope to hear some more later when you aren't studying lol. Yeah, for some reason I didn't think to Pshield the arrows. I rarely play against decent pits, so maybe the habit [of powershielding] hasn't carried over from the falco/ROB/other character matchups.
 
IG88

IG88

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
28
Location
Austin, Tx
haha i know what you mean, i do it a lot too. i just wish this week of school wasn't death lol, way too much going on with not enough time to do it. hooray for professors trying to cram things in the last couple weeks before finals
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
207
Location
Madison, AL
Rocknrolla said:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGoldenSpurUSC#p/u/4/uF256olg7YI

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGoldenSpurUSC#p/u

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGoldenSpurUSC#p/u/3/N1xQSXOucPU
Click to expand...
Match 2 [the second link you posted]:

STOP ROLLING SO MUCH. This can't be stressed enough. Don't be afraid just to walk/dash to approach/retreat. Rolling, especially towards your opponent (which both of you did many, many times over), is a bad idea in many situations. Rolling should not be your main form of transportation. Also, you can punish roll/sidestep/lots of things with dancing blades. DB should be your main form of punishment.

:35 bad idea IMO. At low %s, and if you're not sure you're guaranteed the DS (or at least very confident), I would refrain from it.

:42-ish - good patience on the ledge. You left yourself vulnerable after you ledgehop -> faired. And again at :53. Try pressing away from the ledge and c-stick a fair to keep the opponent away if they are close. Mix up your recovery from the ledge. Ledge jump or normal get up or ledge attack are all other options.

You were a little slow with the Fthrow -> Fsmash at 2:43. Also, marth has a Fthrow x2 -> Dthrow x3 -> tippered Fsmash on the spacies [I think on all of them] in case you didn't know.

Your counters were getting quite predictable, so your opponent punished you and took your last stock away from you. You don't always have to recover onto the stage.

Match 3 [Third posted]:

Same rolling issue. Also, you could have punished with a tipped Fsmash if you just walked towards your opponent at 2:05. Again, very predictable with the counters as you recover. Your opponents rolling is very predictable as well. Punish it! 3:57 is just one of MANY times it was telegraphed.

As a last note, practice spacing/zoning to keep your opponent away. Marth is rewarded for spacing properly (tippers) so learn to space!

I hope this helped some. :] Pretty good marth, and I sincerely hope I wasn't too harsh ;P
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
Keys1281 said:
Thank you. I hope to hear some more later when you aren't studying lol. Yeah, for some reason I didn't think to Pshield the arrows. I rarely play against decent pits, so maybe the habit [of powershielding] hasn't carried over from the falco/ROB/other character matchups.
Click to expand...
SH AD is generally better than trying to PS. That or dash shield to spotdodge. Any sane semi-decent pit will stop you from Powershielding it by mixing it up enough. That's why the Dash shield to spotdodge is pretty decent.
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
207
Location
Madison, AL
Kuro~ said:
SH AD is generally better than trying to PS. That or dash shield to spotdodge. Any sane semi-decent pit will stop you from Powershielding it by mixing it up enough. That's why the Dash shield to spotdodge is pretty decent.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the help :] Anyone have any other advice about the second set I uploaded? I don't really know how to approach/handle wario because he always tends to get under/behind me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom