The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

[LooftWaffles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZd7snnDuLA

help plox <3

ps: i know i countered to much

Solid grasp of Marth, I was impressed. Just one thing- any time MK is charging a smash in front of your shield, upB all day

 

[Reizilla]

Nike, where is my critique?!

 

[clowsui]

Solid grasp of Marth, I was impressed. Just one thing- any time MK is charging a smash in front of your shield, upB all day

depends on what percentages. most of the time i'd say no

caitie, i didn't watch everything but your opponent was obviously not at your level from the first like 2-3 minutes. find someone better

 

[Reizilla]

Be a man and just grab him. Then dair to tech chase.

qB[

What frame would jump-cancelled counter come out on? Can you even do that?

 

[LooftWaffles]

Counter OoS is 5 jump frames compared to 7 shielddrop frames. I claw which makes it alot easier

 

[V]

^this

Every marth should claw

 

[Nike.]

Aight Rei Gun:

• Prolly the most fustrating thing ever is when you do Dancing Blade and Zss always holds away, making DB4 miss. And then she punishes you. Shaya said a few months back that doing DB2 upwards will hit the opponent towards you, making the entire Dancing Blade combo work. I've tried it on Paw at the last smashfest and it works. The problem is that it's pure reflex to hit side b four times lol. I'd suggest going into practice mode and trying out DB2 in the combo, over and over, til it becomes natural. It's so worth it x)

• I think you already know that approaching nair beats Zss's side b and dsmash (in fact, I saw you do it multiple times). However, that freakin dash attack that hits you when you approach makes things so ghey lol. It essentially becomes a chess game. Shlike is smart on this part. He's watching how you approach closely. He knows when to do dash attack, run and shield, spam neutral b or side b, or whataver. You have options that counter his spam moves, while he has options that cover your approaches (I think this MU is even btw).

• Shlike has a habit on his get up attack above 100%. I could see that you knew what he was doing, but you messed up the punish alot Wait until the get up attack hits your shield before you upb, doing it too early will whiff or trade. He also tends to air dodge IMMEDIATELY if he does the ledge jump. Bair this everytime (tipper is sex and may kill after 90%, but just connecting the bair is good enough). Either bair at the very beginning (while hes still rising from the ledge) or wait for the air dodge animation to end. You COULD uair after the air dodge but it sets up a juggle instead of another edgeguard, and shes gets out of juggles unless you make hard reads

• You did alot of Dthrow's and he'd bair you as you tried to follow up with it. Bair can't get shield grabbed (otherwise I'd say approach with run -> shield). Personally, I'd try counter lol. Shlike does the bair alot, I bet you could read it the next time you guys play. Heck, if it works, it puts him off the edge for a perfect edgeguard scenario. OH! When he's spamming bairs at you (like if your at kill percent), ftilt it! Ftilt should beat it, which kinda forces him to stop lol.

Shlike is smart. You have to match his mindset. When it comes down to it, marth has an option against every single thing Zss throws at you. It's up to you to counter whatever approach/wall he tries.

 

[Raziek]

vs. Croi (Wario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W1k6oiyXNQ&feature=feedu

vs. Billybeegood (MK) Note: This set is backwards, Game 3 was FD, Game 2 was Brinstar, Game 1 was SV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpIcXSlgRfo&feature=feedu_more

vs. Lambnadr (Pikachu) - This is only a partial set, Lambnadr could not stay to complete the set due to time constraints.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCSDLtADGFU&feature=feedu

Critique please! It's all I have from this weekend, for now. Should have a set with Nysyarc on the way.

*pokes Nike*

 

[Reizilla]

Thanks, Nike! I'll try to keep as much as I can in mind next time, which will hopefully be this weekend. I know if I just play a little more consistently, I can fix a lot of the things I screwed up on >_<

 

[Nike.]

Raz:

• First of all, SCREW whoever's wii that is lol. The song's on Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise were not fitting at all x) The sound effects (especially the one on metaknight) made me wanna mute. Soooooo annoying. I did like the song's on FD and Port Town, though.

• The wario player didn't seem half bad. Game 1 you took momentum on the ice stage. You seemed more fluid, everything was perfect tipper spacing, and he felt trapped all of a sudden. You took a pretty good lead afterwards. Then he brought it back by abusing your not so great recovery habits. When it went to the rock/ground stage, you once again went on "OMG time to **** him against this wall" mode lol. Very nice.

• It was obvious that you knew how to play on Port Town and Rainbow Cruise better than your opponent. Not much to comment on Game 2, it was alot of just swatting him out of your range and playing the car stages safe. The match on Rainbow Cruise could've easily went his way. He got a huge lead on you and it was switching to the "**** marth with juggles" part. Then he suicided by being greedy. Half a minute later (when the stage was going to the right) you started spacing and zoning with perfection, like how you played on the ice stage. This is how you should be playing every second. Everything is spaced perfect, the opponent gets overwhelmed by this impassible wall, and you gain alot momemtum.

• So, the meaknight set. I think banning the character from your region for awhile showed lol. The opponent was absolutely terrible, but still managed to keep is somewhat close because you played it like you were lost in a daze. Your dancing blade habit that we talked about earlier came out again. It's not a good approach, it's not a good "get out of my face" move, and it's def not good against shield's, especially against a metaknight's shield who can SIMPLY UPB YOU AT ANY MOMENT (or dthrow).

• I couldnt help but laugh and cry at the brinstar match. Your clearly better than your opponent and he literally just metaknight'ed you the entire time

• Against the wario, you should focus on punishing their landing air dodges. With wario, you try to short hop fair or full hop bair him as he's falling so he get's away if he simply air dodges. What you could try doing is empty short hop -> pivot grab (bait the air dodge with short hop) when he's trying to cross you up (hell just pivot grab is he air dodges early). If he's air dodging in front of your face and then moving himself away from you, you could try to nair. Timing the 2nd hit tipper on his landing lag is pretty ****. If he's too far out of range, then your spacing is obv reset. I noticed that you used ftilt as an anti-air approach and I actually kinda liked it.

• Against the metaknight... maybe someone else could cover that better than I can. I'm not the best at explaining it

 

[Reizilla]

My sentiments exactly, Nike. Especially the part about the sound effects. There was a lot of stuff you shouldn't have gotten away with if the Metaknight would have been better. Particularly the DB stuff. I did that too for a while and now people don't even have to think about Shuttle Looping me

 

[Croi]

MK SFX - Because if you're not man enough to win without MK the whole world should know it. Given how we banned him for a bit it seemed apropos

Brinstar - Because the only reason you would ever bring anyone to Brinstar is to be a huge troll

RC - ...well I think it fits the stage pretty well D:

Anyway control the ice stage more, stick to one half during the rock stage, don't be a doofus on RC, and don't let him punish my air landing air dodges *takes notes*

 

[Akashi]

Ugh, I wish I could help Raziek... but I know how to play against MK effectively, but I suck so bad at explaining smash related MU info. I get so descriptive that I start to confuse myself, and I give up easily.

The only thing I can mention is that you messed up the timing on GR -> fair a few times. Remember that you don't have to buffer it perfectly for it to land, and you have a lot of leeway to dash up. It was probably nerves though, and I understand that.

Your matches were legit though, and like I said in your video already - I was inspired

 

[clowsui]

you guys rang for descriptive analysis?

i'll get one up soon

 

[clowsui]

from FD game:

you keep landing in, stop that. you also keep trying to momentum cancel WAY too early (shouldn't be doing so below ~80), but billy didn't punish

you don't know when to go in and when not to. when MK uses SL and you have a reasonable amount of time/he's in a bad position punish that; when you're trying to perform strings on MK you gotta be lower to the ground to accomplish maximum safety (unless you plan on scoring multiple tippers but that's hard in a string). when he tornadoes but ends at autocancel distance...safest is to just reset to neutral. medium safe cross him up on landing and wait at dsmash distance. low safe is to go for read (mid-level MKs use block usually so just grab)

i can't believe you're getting away w/ so many DB approaches LOL. billy needs to learn how to use block effectively along w/ roll mixups

can't jump around in the neutral or your ledge trap...MK has a lot of options to punish that blindly. especially when you do double jump stuff

okay mom needs computer gonna finish this critique (for real LOL...sorry suspect about not finishing yours)

 

[j-toushirou]

Hi everybody this is my marth video, i hope you critique a lot my style to use marth
doesn´t matter if you are very cruel, i really will take into account whatever you say

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgQk0didllw&feature=relmfu

thanks

 

[LooftWaffles]

That double dair to end the match was nice.


Couple matchup specific things ive learned from HolyNightmare:

Dont ledgehop off the ledge, there are so many things ROB can do that will end up in your immediate death.

Try to stay on the ground. Most of the time you want ROB in the air above you.


Harass him on his way back onstage. He cant airdodge out of upB, bait an attack and send him back out there


One nitpick- you werent spacing wll against his shield. If you land at midrange and just sit there, ROB has to do something about it. If you do hit their shield not well spcaed, mix in a Dolphin Slash every now and then, theyll think twice before dropping their shield next time.

 

[Raziek]

Well, it's hard to give a decent critique when your opponent is clearly far worse than you are, and didn't limit your options properly at all, but here's a few things I noticed:

- You have a typical Marth habit of double-jumping when you probably shouldn't, since landing is safer most of the time, and using it limits your options.

- You dash too much. Marth has the potential to be a very flashy character, but his dash startup is long, and there are a lot of times you could have just gotten f-tilted because you dashed or jumped everywhere. Marth's walk is very fast, and drastically increases your options. I suggest walking more.

- At 0:54 you DS'd directly to the ledge instead of simply double-jumping. That gave you RCO lag (see the thread in the main index) , and while it didn't DIRECTLY hurt you that time, it limited your options coming off the ledge.

- In that same conflict at the left ledge, you ledge-jumped every time, and got hit for it. Try mixing up your recovery options. Since you were under 100%, a simple quick-getup would have worked, since he was a fair distance from the ledge.

- Not sure why you tried to jump and airdodge through him, that got you killed. Sit near or on the ledge, and react to his decisions, rather than giving him a free punish.

- Your use of bair was great, you set up proper edgeguards with it and used it how it's meant to be used, especially in that match-up.

Honestly, though I know it's not what people to have of themselves on the internet, a match where you lose is much better for critiquing purposes than one where you outskill your opponents to the extent of making some of the kills look like something straight out of a combo video. If you have something like that, I'd be happy to critique it.

 

[Raziek]

For the rest of you, two more sets from the monthly last weekend! :D

One for serious critique...
vs. Nysyarc (Ike)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfVAWn-3Cvc&feature=feedu

And the other for entertainment. (Attila had a bad night )
vs. Attila (DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUV_yDLDNpQ&feature=feedu

 

[Player-3]

ont really have time to watch more than a minute of the first match


but waht i saw, Y U AIRDODGE INTO CHARGING USMASH MAN



also, counter > ikes up b

if hes forced to use it, counter him and send him out

 

[Anaky]

vs. Nysyarc (Ike)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfVAWn-3Cvc&feature=feedu

Yo Raz u know where i can get the announcer saying 3, 2, 1 go in that way?

 

[Raziek]

ont really have time to watch more than a minute of the first match


but waht i saw, Y U AIRDODGE INTO CHARGING USMASH MAN



also, counter > ikes up b

if hes forced to use it, counter him and send him out

Dude, half the time I try to counter it, **** pokes my feet and I take 20%. It's really starting to annoy me lol.

Also, airdodge into U-Smash.... that would be a panic reaction, now that I look at that. Yeah, that one hurt. ._. I need to stop double-jumping immediately back on stage.

Yo Raz u know where i can get the announcer saying 3, 2, 1 go in that way?

Will inquire with the creator for you.

 

[C.J.]

Don't counter aether onstage.
Just do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwLuwpWPLxo&feature=channel_video_title

@ 50 seconds.

Only do it over and over and over and over again. Or time the get-up better than I did.

 

[Raziek]

Oh right, how could I forget about that?

Thanks for the reminder CJ. I forgot we could do that effectively. xD

 

[MysteryTigerTeen]

depends on what percentages. most of the time i'd say no

caitie, i didn't watch everything but your opponent was obviously not at your level from the first like 2-3 minutes. find someone better

He beats me all the time though, he has always been better than me

Solid grasp of Marth, I was impressed. Just one thing- any time MK is charging a smash in front of your shield, upB all day

Thank you and I'll do that more, i'm just afraid to get punished. Idk what % will give me enough knockback so that i can get rid of down time fast enough :$





Bumping this up for more critque

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZd7snnDuLA

help plox <3

ps: i know i countered to much

 

[PZ]

"I know I countered to much" but they were so freaking good...

Anyway randum visit from the randum known as PZ.(changing name to RodKnee soon)

Ok needs more nairs and your getting greedy with some of your moves. lol with those side bs.

Yea think about your throws more cuz your gr setups dont seem to work well enough be your desired outcome such as mk up bing when u tried Air GR<dair.

Too calm you couldve walked all over that mk with some aggro play and switch to defense when he gets to your point blah blaw blawh.

O and those glides could easily be stopped with fair.

Hope this randum helped!:O

 

[oLJo]

Friend

This is a Friend of mine who plays frequently with tampa smash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK_Vrjgmz4c.

 

[PZ]

He needs to space his fairs better and probably FF them too.

Ik side b is like a refresher but he havent really used any other move. The side-b ended with down isnt really good sense most ppl would DI and punish.

Also obviously regular marths dont know how nair for most things <.<

He should've continued the cg on falco...

That falco really wants the chaingrab...and he eats too many lasers need to work on powershielding and punishing it.

He really got read the entire match so I suggest mixing up his playstyle every now and then.

The two kills falco got on him while on the edge should never ever happen.

 

[PEACE7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm1zSlVOGns Nike Shaya Brz Neo Pierce any1?

 

[Raziek]

0:48 - You burned your double jump WAY too early there, you're very lucky he didn't **** you for that.

0:52 - That land-in was hella dangerous. >_>

Beginning of his second stock was ****. At first I was like "Why did he D-throw?" but then windmill. Be aware that he probably could have shielded the F-Smash.

2:20 was a really dumb counter. He wasn't even near you.

2:40 I know you're just trying to end it, and on a massive lead, but that was dumb.

Not much else I can say, your opponent was awful.

 

[Player-3]

that mk missed soooooooooooooooo many punishes ;_;

tl;dr @ raz post

stop burning your double jump when mk is close enough to hit you out, stop being dumb

tl;dr at my invisible non-existant post

stop commiting so much to moves, alot of the time you would act like a move had already hit him and kept moving forward as if to follow up, and he would shield it

Spoiler

and then not punish you

, just keep a safer distance and dont commit so much




also ledge jump dair usuuaaalllyyy doesn't work XD i can understand the flash effect but try using bair if anything if you're trying to do that

 

[PEACE7]

Alright thanks guys

 

[Nike.]

Tourney or Money Matches against the other good players in my city. Someone rip me apart cuz I deserve it this time for playing so reckless x)

Winners Semis: Espy (Sonic) vs Nike (Marth) 1
Winners Semis: Espy (Sonic) vs Nike (Marth) 2
Winners Semis: Espy (Sonic) vs Nike (Marth) 3

Game1 wasn't saved, Nike won on smashville.
Losers Quarters: Nike (Marth) vs Paw (Zss) 2
Losers Quarters: Nike (Marth) vs Paw (Zss) 3

Losers Semis: Megafox (Snake) vs Nike (Marth) 1
Losers Semis: Megafox (Snake) vs Nike (Marth) 2
Losers Semis: Megafox (Snake) vs Nike (Marth) 3

Nikefest 3.1 $5 MM: Nike (Marth) vs Morningstar (Snake) 1
Nikefest 3.1 $5 MM: Nike (Marth) vs Morningstar (Snake) 2
Nikefest 3.1 Friendly: Nike (Marth) vs Morningstar (Snake)

Nikefest 3.1 $5 MM: Nike (Marth) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 1
Nikefest 3.1 $5 MM: Nike (Marth) vs K Prime (Pikachu) 2

 

[Suspect]

You got so lucky at 1:34 in the 2nd match against Mstar, that should of been a stock loss on your end. Morningscrub

and was that a rage quit?

 

[Shaya]

Did you see what I said in the social thread Nike?

that x1000.

 

[wonf]

I did not know I had this video saved, I'll post it didy kong punishment off the air to die xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y50UZU8Vu2Y

:D

 

[Akashi]

I did not know I had this video saved, I'll post it didy kong punishment off the air to die xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y50UZU8Vu2Y

:D

good video, but OMG make sure your speakers are low before clicking. You'll thank me later <_<

 

[Shaya]

Real Personal critiquing (of Nike)

[15:29] hiyashaya: you need to play against competent meta knights
[15:29] hiyashaya: because your habits are so terrible
[15:29] hiyashaya: that any mk main should be 3 stocking you
[15:29] hiyashaya:
[15:30] Nike 20: Want proof?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khWBqbaE1qg & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uy-nkGIn1M&feature=related
[15:31] hiyashaya: what im trying to say is
[15:31] hiyashaya: the mistakes you make
[15:31] hiyashaya: are the ones that MK would **** you for
[15:31] hiyashaya: and the fact you have bad characters like sonic
[15:31] hiyashaya: **** you for them
[15:31] hiyashaya: is sooo silly
[15:32] hiyashaya: tl;dr
[15:32] hiyashaya: no.1 thing you need to work on
[15:32] hiyashaya: don't ****ing get grabbed
[15:32] hiyashaya: every
[15:32] hiyashaya: ****ing
[15:32] hiyashaya: time
[15:32] hiyashaya: 9 out of 10 hits on k-primes and espys shield
[15:33] hiyashaya: got you grabbed
[15:33] hiyashaya: or punished
[15:33] hiyashaya: wtf is this ****
[15:33] hiyashaya: are you playing ganondorf?
[15:33] hiyashaya: i can understand ganondorf getting ***** for hitting peoples shields as often as you do
[15:33] hiyashaya: but marth?
[15:33] hiyashaya: :|
[15:33] hiyashaya: also your sh df habits are really bad also
[15:33] hiyashaya: but if you focus on the whole don't get grabbed thing
[15:34] hiyashaya: your game should evolve for the better
[15:34] Nike 20: I get scared easily by every single little thing they do (even something as simple as just walking up to me and I react horribly from jitters)
[15:34] Nike 20: They powershield religiously, and that scares me all the time
[15:35] Nike 20: Espy gets in my head, we go even in friendlys and then tourney happens and he has an entire new aggressive style that just overwhelms me for awhile
[15:37] Nike 20: I tried the "space and react to all his approaches" against k prime. i quit doing that as soon as he got a lead and he styled on me for terrible aerials lol
[15:38] Nike 20: i feel like i need to stop playing so aggressive, i played super patient against razer and that got pretty good results. next tourney i pretend going aggro works and then it doesnt
[15:38] Nike 20: and shaya needs more vids lol
[16:14] hiyashaya: im old man
[16:14] hiyashaya: past my prime with no vids
[16:14] hiyashaya:
[16:17] hiyashaya: one thing with your sh df
[16:17] hiyashaya: is that you put them out too early
[16:18] hiyashaya: because of this
[16:18] hiyashaya: you always keep going forwardafter the first one
[16:18] hiyashaya: which is actually the worst possible thing ever
[16:18] hiyashaya: sh df isn't about moving forward unless you HIT them LOL
[16:18] hiyashaya: but you kept throwing out these first fair whiffed
[16:18] hiyashaya: then keep moving forward
[16:18] hiyashaya: ooh another fair
[16:18] hiyashaya: you get grabbed
[16:18] hiyashaya: or FAIRED by sonic
[16:18] hiyashaya: or naired by pikachu
[16:18] hiyashaya: or
[16:18] hiyashaya: all these things
[16:18] hiyashaya: that shouldn't happen
[16:21] Nike 20: sh df was something i never thought i used til i saw myself overusing it in the vids. i notice that i use it alot against sonic, and i think the reason is that he has a hit/run type playing style and i use the second fair to cover against sonic if he ran at me
[16:21] Nike 20: guess that obv doesnt against someone as good as espy though
[16:21] hiyashaya: but you're always moving forward with your shdf
[16:21] Nike 20: yea
[16:21] hiyashaya: and the second one generally always whiffs too
[16:21] hiyashaya: shdf is an "option" as a zoning tool
[16:21] hiyashaya: its passive aggressive
[16:22] hiyashaya: but you're using it aggressively/habitually
[16:22] hiyashaya: rather than reactionary
[16:22] Nike 20: omfg your right lol
[16:22] Nike 20: why do i not see this?!?
[16:22] Nike 20: (at least mid tourney)
[16:22] Nike 20: i suck x)
[16:23] hiyashaya: if all those shdfs
[16:23] hiyashaya: that you used
[16:23] Nike 20: damn, now i REALLY see this habit
[16:23] hiyashaya: had retreating in them
[16:23] hiyashaya: you wouldn't be getting punished as often
[16:23] hiyashaya: if I was to play against you
[16:23] hiyashaya: i would just go
[16:23] hiyashaya: "okay im just gonna wait till he does this shdf ****"
[16:23] hiyashaya: against any mk? get *****
[16:23] hiyashaya: against dehf/similar falcos
[16:24] hiyashaya: laser to combo everytime
[16:24] hiyashaya: as I said earlier, you need to focus on
[16:24] hiyashaya: 1. not getting grabbed
[16:25] hiyashaya: thtat should be your focus in matches
[16:25] hiyashaya: "is what im about to do going to get me grabbed?"
[16:25] hiyashaya: i would say that if you asked yourself that
[16:25] hiyashaya: you'd be saying yes about every 2 seconds
[16:25] hiyashaya:
[16:25] Nike 20: LOL
[16:26] Nike 20: but this requires me to play safer x) (okay)
[16:26] Nike 20: oh
[16:26] hiyashaya: not necessarily
[16:26] hiyashaya: space better
[16:26] hiyashaya: time things better
[16:26] hiyashaya: as in aerials, fast falling
[16:27] Nike 20: alright, i got a pretty good idea of this
[16:27] hiyashaya: if you're struggling with the don't get grabbed concept
[16:27] hiyashaya: play like this
[16:27] hiyashaya: Stay grounded, retreating aerials only

 

[Reizilla]

Now I know how to beat Nike >:]

 

[PEACE7]

Damn Shaya thats some good *** critique you gotta do that for me some time