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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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-Kiros-

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Chibi, it seems like your opponents weren't that great. I noticed that your counter usage was either great or misplaced. Learning to use counter effectively takes a while and there's no surefire way to do it, just keep reading your opponents. Also, near the end of the matches it seems like you start to get a little sloppy (or maybe you think the game is over?!?). I suffer from the same thing, I get my friends down to the last stock and end up losing for some reason, getting walked over by them. Who knows what's wrong with me...

Anyways, it's good to get some vids of you losing so people can critique on what you can do better.
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
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This is for Phoenix Lord:

- Stop landing with laggy moves on the ground (Bair, Dair) against diddy, you will get ***** horribly for it.
- Review your options. There's no point in charging a SB when your about to land on two bananas. Maintain safety before you attack your opponent.
- Use DB to punish rolls, not Ftilt. The multiple hits are better at catching a roll.
- Work on your edge game. Your ledge traps weren't very good (run off and charge an SB? You basically gimped yourself 0.o), and all your options were predictable.
- Save bananas for a vertically recovering Diddy. Either you wil lget the gimp, or you can reset the situation. Yo actually did this a few times, just keep it consistent.
 

Albert.

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Stay in the air more.

Don't be too afraid of grenades

at every single opportunity go for juggle strings and ledge traps

It seemed like you had strong forward momentum every single time you approached Snake with an aerial, which got you ***** sometimes.

watching your last stock now- WOW you wrecked him LOL.

nice playing :D

( I live in N.E. which is Snake land )
 

ChibixD

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Just some hints
0:38 Bait the airdodge
0:42 Try landing with Uair
0:52 play calm, dont land near to snake
1:16 Try dont using rising fair vs snake in death %s, marth's fair lag a bit...
1:38 Only do this if he is facing the other way
2:29 Again =p

Nice marth btw
 

Ori_bro

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great match Ankoku.

i think you could have won the set if I hadn't been playing marth against boxxy that entire night before the tourney lol.

anyways, i think DB works well against snake
boxxy really likes to stay in his shield so maybe a few more no charge shield breakers to get the shield down














1300th Post! :)
 

Mr-R

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ok im not an expert at giving advice, so here goes nothing

fastfalled nair when snake is on the ground does not work from my experience

When I fthrow snake, I'd like to quickly dash towards him ( staying on the ground ) and immeditely adapt and punish what the snake then does.

I also saw that at some times when boxxy was at low % u went for a fair, when u could have gotten an uair in, at low % against snake uair is ALWAYS better then fair ( unless hes near the edge ), cause it sets up juggles

at 2:09 u hit ur fair and then wanted to follow up with an uair which got shielded and resulted into a grab, when u land a non fastfalled fair at low % ppl have enough time to shield so what u do is this ( assuming the first fair would hit )
Fair> jump fair ( space backwards ) this way u can still hit snake with ur fair and get away, quite simple but it works

also even though ur f smashes did hit, try doing it less its not that good
 

Conti

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This is for Phoenix Lord:
- Work on your edge game. Your ledge traps weren't very good (run off and charge an SB? You basically gimped yourself 0.o), and all your options were predictable.
His thumb slipd he meant to sh dair... (hejust switched to using cstick for airiels)
Also what shud he do when ledgeguarding to be more unpredictabble
 

Zankoku

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i think you could have won the set if I hadn't been playing marth against boxxy that entire night before the tourney lol.
I dunno, Marth was the only character I won with, and I didn't use Marth for the other two games.

ok im not an expert at giving advice, so here goes nothing

fastfalled nair when snake is on the ground does not work from my experience

When I fthrow snake, I'd like to quickly dash towards him ( staying on the ground ) and immeditely adapt and punish what the snake then does.

I also saw that at some times when boxxy was at low % u went for a fair, when u could have gotten an uair in, at low % against snake uair is ALWAYS better then fair ( unless hes near the edge ), cause it sets up juggles

at 2:09 u hit ur fair and then wanted to follow up with an uair which got shielded and resulted into a grab, when u land a non fastfalled fair at low % ppl have enough time to shield so what u do is this ( assuming the first fair would hit )
Fair> jump fair ( space backwards ) this way u can still hit snake with ur fair and get away, quite simple but it works

also even though ur f smashes did hit, try doing it less its not that good
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll see if I like any of those ideas next time I play.
 

Pr0phetic

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His thumb slipd he meant to sh dair... (hejust switched to using cstick for airiels)
Also what shud he do when ledgeguarding to be more unpredictabble
Never do the same thing if it didn't work the first time. If you getup attack and it doesn't work, roll on stage. If you rolled, then do a regular getup. ALWAYS keep your opponent guessing.
 

Nike.

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Hey guys. I have lots of trouble vs Sonic. Espy is the best player in my city. Everytime we play, it feels so much more like I'm playing against him than the character sonic. It's nothing like playing ddd or snake or other matchups where you know why you lost. I just don't get the matchup at all.

Few days ago, I played him in WF and GF. The WF set I did horrible on and wasnt playing my best, but the GF set I felt like was me playing as good as I possibly can.

Grand Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukFpMzICfVs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZbnuMeLUE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlUGTFEmiP8&feature=related

Winners Finals if you were interested, but GF's is more important to critique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWpFEmkBQDY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL1zOunp2j4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euruxl79Hnc&feature=related

This is basically the hill I've been trying to get over for about a year and a half. Help?
 

Shaya

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Hey Nike,

In a few short blunt words,
You attacked too early nearly everytime and this allowed Sonic to just rush in and **** you. Everytime.
Sonic has great mobility, you just threw out aerials hoping he would rush into them before hand. An example would be in the second match where you punished him once with dolphin slash, then shortly after dolphin slashed at the sheer SOUND of him starting to move when he was no where near you.
Retreating short hops into fast falled aerials are a lot better (in just about every match up mind you), but especially against Sonic who we rely on the fact he cant really punish them [ff aerials] without grabbing us (and we can beat them up for trying to grab us from ff aerials anyway).

In terms of the Sonic match up, you do not need to be aggressive. Marth against Sonic camps near ledges, practically disallowing Sonic from mixing up side/down b cancel cross overs. Everytime Sonic takes the air near you, you can sh retreating nair to beat out most of his moves (this is when Sonic is travelling a far distance from his specials, he has invincibility on his start up I believe otherwise).
Sh FF uairs can mess up cross overs too.

But yeah... just watch your videos. How often would you just throw out an aerial (EVEN THINGS LIKE RISING ONES) when Sonic made the sound/visual feint of approaching and he would then just punish your lag.

Espys smart, your mix ups didnt work twice in a row. But otherwise your Marths move choices were generally shmick. Just need to tune your reflexes/relax a bit more. Id be interested to see how you play other people, I think you may have been so preemptive because of nervousness. It seemed that way from watching you.
 

Player-3

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what Shaya said, when i played Umby (before he dropped sonic, he was extremely good) i nearly lost because he did the same things to me, that Espy did to you


the trick is to retreat whenever you hear a sound, and not attack until he moves, and even then, attack while retreating
 

clowsui

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this is how you win against sonic

you don't move forward or you try to move as little as possible, with as little dashes as possible

sonic's excellent mobility doesn't actually do anything for him when you stay still >_>;
 

Shaya

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Chibi, your main issue is very simple.

You threw out aerials that were no where near ROB when ROB has multiple moves that outrange your fair.
So many times you would just jump and fair when you were EASILY not close to ROB at all and then he would just ftilt you or BAIR you.

Another spacing quirk is most times you fast falled an aerial on robs shield you landed in grab range... You need to tighten up your spacing a bit in this regard as well.

So yeah, put more concentration on your moves.
All ROB has to do is see your fair and hit you in your lag.
But if you bait rob to ftilt when you are outside its range you can easily swipe his arm (its not disjointed) to punish.
In other words, you gave him 100% of the gambling winnings by always throwing out aerials too far away/too early when some mix ups would have allowed you to PUNISH HIM.

Yeah a lot of times you got hit are things I raised an eyebrow with in terms of the situation being previously neutral and then you get hit. Like at 2:53 you jump uaired and traded with his nair. Could have avoided that or chosen a better aerial for platform pressure (like nair).

An example of you just jumping/fairing too early is like 2:45.

Also a thing you should be adding into your game is fast fall uairs. A good way to punish spot dodges and stuff.
 

purenano

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nice ankoku. I like how at a certain point in the match ur just like yea im done with the fore play lets win. Rising fair to retreating ff fair (spaced well) ***** snake. Db is good for punishing but with snake you really want to keep its use to just that. No one likes to be in f-tilt range. Snake isn't as tough as people think, be patient when approaching snake, and space your fairs well in order to stay out of f-tilt range and you will make it very hard for a snake to win. Throwing him of stage and playing cypher smack is fun too.
 

Yung Mei

Where all da hot anime moms at
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my friend dray needs a rate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq5vKCgA8vA

he says

[
thanks in advance for rating my marth, i know im not very good, and i would really appreciate if you could help me Improve my marth so i can **** calvo alot harder than i normally do. thanks for the rate !]


he doesnt **** me at all lol
 

purenano

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calvo critique

Alright you got a lot to learn on how to play marth properly so for starters start off never doing nairs, shield breaker, charged smashes, the full dash attacks, and counters. These are very situational and it would be better if you start of learning marths staple moves first, and then you will naturally start to incorporate these situational moves once spacing and fairs become natural to you.

practice doing these

rising fair to ff retreating fair (offensive)
using dancing blade to punish opponents mistakes (offensive)
short hop retreating fairs (defensive)
running up to them and shielding forcing a reaction out of the opponent and then acting accordingly (offensive)
shield grabing (defensive)
basically spacing fairs in general

It would also be really helpful for you to watch videos on mikehaze and you'll learn in general what a marth should look like with spacing and his move sets.

Then once you got the spacing down and generally know what moves to use when then you want to learn match ups. Read the matchup threads and find out how you should play against each character.

Once you got all that down and your pro, then you go to the metaknight thread and flame them for picking a cheap character.
 

Shaya

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Im gonna go by the second video.

First off I hate wifi.
Mother of GOD. You know why I hate wifi? Because when you grab release a meta knight and choose to dolphin slash him, you shouldnt be getting hit by an 8 frame start up move in the process. Rant aside, lets go!

Let me start off by saying your spacing is not intimidating. Doing rising retreating fairs like you were doing get you no where and have enough cool down for Meta Knight to dash grab you (he never did). Alternatively he could try to shield (powershield makes it more effective) it and forward roll to lol at your lack of options (something similar to this is at 2:35). Why set yourself up like this?
What do I mean by intimidation? You are moving so you stay outside of their immediate range (remember we do outrange him in a lot of kooky ways) and NOT throwing out aerials that would DEFINITELY WHIFF. This means using our aerial mobility and walks to realign ourselves in this baiting contest you both set yourselves up to have. When one of Marths scariest things in the match up at low percents is him [power] shielding something of MKs for a grab, you seemed to show to me that the action itself was not apart of your repertoire. Not until after you got hit did you start trying dash to shields but you always did so WELL OUTSIDE OF HIS RANGE, ensuring that it was not in any way pressuring (as he wasnt going for dash grabs anyway) but also giving you the lag of the stop in ground mobility and the shield drop... you also always spot dodged or rolled back, with both being dash attack and the former being ftilt fodder (dash attack being REALLY DANGEROUS to get hit by at low percents).
To sum it up, you need to really fine tune your pressure and spacing.

You also showed to have a bad habit of landing into your opponent (0:43) or air dodging early ! AND holding forward during their hits so they had better follow ups (0:15 - 36, FIVE TIMES including the roll, and only ONCE did it work out for you)! Smash DI is quite an amazing tool used to great effect by the best players, adding it to your game when you know you are going to get hit can reduce the amount of damage you are being inflicted by in attack strings. Yes, getting the muscle memory of spamming quarter circle di in one direction is PRO.
Often in these bad positional situations you would be in you would NEARLY ALWAYS throw out grabs! UGH!!!!!!!!!!! MK would seriously just jump over your head and you would try grabbing :(

You need to add the instant ledge grab technique into your game so your ledge options are... in lack of other words... BETTER. Giving yourself moments of time to gauge your opponent (draining shields from them reacting to you ledge dropping or you seeing they arent shielding so you hit them, etc etc, more mix ups). Even though you mixed up your ledge gets up everytime, Sanoscy seemed to always know what you were going to do and punish you for it. Id say thats because of how much invincibility you are losing from non-immediate buffered get ups (hence why the instant ledge grab is useful for regaining your invincibility in this).

So:
Tune your spacing habits and your options in doing so
Instead of rolling backwards as often as you do, learn about the power of dash away reverse dancing blade, which pretty much is the exact same option minus the invincibility but better speed and LOL IT HITS PEOPLE.
Stop air dodging SO early or after getting hit trying to air dodge into someone.

Add some patience into your game play. Sanoscy (and a lot of players in general) spot dodges alot in a semi-pressuring situation, such as ff aerials on his shield or his tornado ending or a whiffed attack. The sheer fact that if you chose to expect something like that ONCE or TWICE out of the many times that you could have gained a lot of extra damage.

Sorry if my critique seems a bit harsh !_! I really like critiquing marths who have a good understanding of the game, and hence put a lot of effort into them.
 

Shaya

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Hey Kenji, at least one thing.
Try replacing rolling with dash away reverse dancing blades.
You both spammed rolls a lot and they arent really too good!

Do you know what I mean by dash away dancing blade?
 

Shaya

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Skyler your Marth isnt too bad but you gotta stop being flashy with the stupid dairs.

I would prefer you getting me a video of you taking things seriously :p
One of issues I saw is you throwing out a second aerial after the first one hit, when they were past the percents of stringing. Small things like that can increase your movement efficiency by A LOT - in the same time of that second aerial, you could have fast falled instead and did a running up smash. NO JOKE. Now I am not saying that would have hit, but you are wasting damage and pressuring options with bad habits.

Other than that your fast fall habits are nice and are mixed up a bit anyway, but you should add uair into your moves because they were often times that they would have been **** easy to do (samus is bad like that).

You being patient with your aerials (as in not instant swings) is a REALLY good thing and you would definitely cause confusion against someone who has only ever played a swing now, think later Marth. They got you a lot of shield pokes and and what not, so keep that **** up.

After a bit of further thought, your fundamentals are pretty good. But you pretty much SUCK A LOT when its anything to do with the ledge. Please for the love of god stop dairing. Samus boy expects you to ledge drop to try and hit him with a dair nearly everytime hes trying to recover and beats you out nearly everytime because of it.
UGHHHHHHH
 

Zankoku

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Roll dodges. You press R and left or right. They're usually not a good thing to overuse.

Dash away dancing blade is dashing one way, then hitting the other direction and doing side+B.
 

ChibixD

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Chibi, your main issue is very simple.

You threw out aerials that were no where near ROB when ROB has multiple moves that outrange your fair.
So many times you would just jump and fair when you were EASILY not close to ROB at all and then he would just ftilt you or BAIR you.

Another spacing quirk is most times you fast falled an aerial on robs shield you landed in grab range... You need to tighten up your spacing a bit in this regard as well.

So yeah, put more concentration on your moves.
All ROB has to do is see your fair and hit you in your lag.
But if you bait rob to ftilt when you are outside its range you can easily swipe his arm (its not disjointed) to punish.
In other words, you gave him 100% of the gambling winnings by always throwing out aerials too far away/too early when some mix ups would have allowed you to PUNISH HIM.

Yeah a lot of times you got hit are things I raised an eyebrow with in terms of the situation being previously neutral and then you get hit. Like at 2:53 you jump uaired and traded with his nair. Could have avoided that or chosen a better aerial for platform pressure (like nair).

An example of you just jumping/fairing too early is like 2:45.

Also a thing you should be adding into your game is fast fall uairs. A good way to punish spot dodges and stuff.
Let me see if I understand ^^
Basically Vs ROB
I must aim his shield with my aerials,
Dont space too far,
Dont fair to early,
Dont land near my opponent
am I right?
I dont know the ROB MU >_<
But this is the only match I lost for him, I got shield grabbed too much =|

Thanks Shaya
 

-Kiros-

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Stud,

Don't sit in your shield, a better opponent will do horrible things to you. Fast Fall your aerials and use more short hop to speed up your game, don't use your midair jump or even full jump often in matches. Know the range of your moves so you can play at the max, inside your zone but outside your opponent's. Don't randomly charge up smashes, Marth's are unsafe and charging one is even more dangerous (unless you break a shield lulz). I only use a smash attack if I know that it's going to hit. Don't airdodge when you're far away from your opponent (unless dodging a projectile), as your opponent can bait it and punish. You always follow up your f-throws with a Fair, mix it up to keep your opponent guessing. Shield Breaker is unsafe, don't use it in regular play unless you absolutely know what you're doing. Use them like your smashes but even less often. Punish with Dancing Blade more, grabs can be spotdodged easier than DB. And learn how to play near the ledge, it will be useful.

Basically control issues with you, Stud.
 
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