The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

[Kanji]

Oy. Thanks. I'll try to work on that. Any other problems besides that though?

 

[-Kiros-]

Kanji,

NEVER use dash attack unless you're grab releasing MK. Like, NEVER. You Fsmash too much, it's unsafe and you will get punished. With Dancing Blade, use the normal red version. The down green one is DI-able and escapeable/punishable. Fast Fall your aerials to speed up your game. Use Short Hops more, and fastfall them. Know when to use counter, don't just throw it out when you're way above your opponent or far away. Don't randomly charge up and throw out smashes. They are unsafe, very unsafe. Dolphin Slash is best used OoS, and don't use it out of a SH (you don't get invincibility frames, if you want to run up and use it do just that: run and use). It's also very punishable if you miss. And again, NO DASH ATTACK. Use short hops more and don't use your double jump all the time.

As with -Stud, you have control issues. Learn the spacing of Marth and what's safe and unsafe, play in your range but out of your opponent's. And be able to control your character, make Marth do what you want (hopefully you will make what you want the right and best thing to do in a given situation).

 

[Shaya]

You get invincibility frames on dolphin slash at any time and anywhere.

 

[-Kiros-]

WTF no wai! I didn't know that... Is it true for other invincible up-b's (MK etc)?

 

[Kanji]

Thanks, Kiros^_^

 

[daballa100]

sorry my bad kanji, i shoulda critiqued you since i'm the one who redirected you

what kiros said pretty much hit the point, but on the match up vs Ike, try to hit him while he's off the stage, Ike gets gimped off so easily because his quick draw doesn't work if he hits somebody, and when ike uses up b aether to recover, use counter at that time, because you can hit him off the stage for a gimp. Also, you should work on your grab game. If you wanna quickly get better go here
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269641
All of those guys who have vids are legit, take notes on what they do that works.

 

[Lord Chair]

MK's upB doesn't get invincibility frames at any point provided that it's aerial.

 

[Pr0phetic]

MK's upB doesn't get invincibility frames at any point provided that it's aerial.

Wait what? Would you like to elaborate on this? Cause MKs UpB is definitely not an aerial, and it has invincibility for a certain amount of frames...

 

[Player-3]

rukkiko it only has invinci when you use it grounded, in the air there isn't any

 

[Pr0phetic]

rukkiko it only has invinci when you use it grounded, in the air there isn't any

Oh wow, never knew that lol

 

[Reizilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aOidZb__WU

critique my garbage sandbaggy marth, please?

 

[GreenHoodie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aOidZb__WU

critique my garbage sandbaggy marth, please?

From the beginning to about :36 was good. However, why did you do a grab release on Wolf? That's not very safe, and it usually ends up getting you no extra sword hits. It works with mind games, but still not very advised. It didn't cost you too much damage, so its alright.

:38 you fthrow'd but got greedy and tried for another hit. Usually no sort of combo w/ Fthrow after 50s, so you got punished.

You did well for the next 20 secs

:58 You tried for a triple grab before and it worked, but I guess the Wolf saw it coming or reacted quick enough. Don't do this as much. Double works fine, and its just 3 more damage.

1:00 DB to spike works, but don't quote me on that. I would've Faired him instead, since Wolf has terrible recovery.

1:07 Grabbed the wrong way, or you thought he was going to land to your left, either way, it can't be helped. Faster reaction time is needed.

1:10 Dancing blade to get up the ledge? Horrible choice. Either Nair or Fair, or just stall for a bit.

1:20 Dolphin out of shield works wonders here.

1:22 Yeah.. running isn't good close up.

1:34 Shield breaker? Just go with Nair. Way too risky to SB.

1:42 Too eager with those grabs. Just watch your opponent and try not to go too fancy. If they see you do it once, they know it'll come back.

1:55 till 2:10 The hell was that? Were you just playing around? You should've been approaching him, not let him do target practice.

2:27 There's that "fancy" stuff again. Don't do that.

2:40 He gimped you there... and you were left without a jump. Early death.

3:00 I think around here you were losing your cool. Random DB and rushing. No spacing.

3:24 Grab release with Wolf is a horrible idea. He can easily downsmash and boom.

3:29 What happened to Fair?

3:37 Rushed reentry.

You were doing well in the beginning, but then you just lost your cool and forgot about what Marth does best, punishing. You lost the spacing and you didn't read him. You need more spacing and Fair.

Were you waiting for 0 to spike death around 2:20? You shouldn't wait for him get into position for the sexual penetration, you gotta flow into it.

 

[Reizilla]

Thanks. I could've sworn fthrow x3 was guaranteed on Wolf. Thought I was just messing up.

Yeah, when I think I have a match, I usually tend to play sloppy/"fancy" or whatever. Hopefully I'll have some better ones after next weekend. I usually play smarter in tourney matches. Usually XD

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

I wasn't sure whether to make a new thread about this because I have 4 vids but, I just started playing with Marth so I'm very noobish. I had a bunch of matches online with my friends (especially MX) and I lost A LOT!! Like A LOT! I have 2 vids of me winning and 2 vids of me losing, but there were a lot more losses than wins (against MX). So please watch all 4 vids and please tell me what I can improve on, give me some good combos I could try out.

All WiFi matches
Me (Marth) vs MX (Yoshi) - Failed
Me (Marth) vs MX (Yoshi) 2 - Epicly Failed
Me (Marth) vs MX (Yoshi) 3 - I actually won! :D
Me (Marth) vs NILE (Ike) - I won, but MX is a greater challenge. (Sorry NILE)

 

[-Kiros-]

Phelps, this is the correct place to post (even if you have ten videos to critique). I will edit this post after I look at them... tomorrow. Unless someone beats me to it.

Edit: Phelps, where is your air game? You need to learn the basics of Marth. Never use dash attacks, and use way less smashes. Smashes should be used only if you know that they will connect and kill. Punish with DB. You get hung up on D-tilts. While it's great for spacing, stop using it over and over again when you miss. Don't charge up smashes or Shield Breaker. At your level doing so is catastrophic, and any good player will punish the lag with a kill. Basically your matches were wiffed D-tilts and smashes. Learn Marth's amazing air game.

 

[Ori_bro]

My most recent Marth videos from the past two Michigan Tourneys. These are my first videos brought here to be critiqued.

Best of Michigan 2
- Ori (Marth) vs King of Boss (Snake) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9Z3JEoSkGg
- Ori (Marth) vs King of Boss (ROB) 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rSH446gvw8
- Ori (Marth) vs King of Boss (ROB) 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ii9Q9N5-4
- Ori (Marth) vs King of Boss (ROB) 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C8LgkLtZy0

U of M Flint
- Ori (Marth) vs Anther (Pika) 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfZ60htjp4k
- Ori (Marth) vs Anther (Pika) 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5umXaP5-a0

ty

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Phelps, this is the correct place to post (even if you have ten videos to critique). I will edit this post after I look at them... tomorrow. Unless someone beats me to it.

Edit: Phelps, where is your air game? You need to learn the basics of Marth. Never use dash attacks, and use way less smashes. Smashes should be used only if you know that they will connect and kill. Punish with DB. You get hung up on D-tilts. While it's great for spacing, stop using it over and over again when you miss. Don't charge up smashes or Shield Breaker. At your level doing so is catastrophic, and any good player will punish the lag with a kill. Basically your matches were wiffed D-tilts and smashes. Learn Marth's amazing air game.

I tried using aerial attacks on MX, but his Yoshi just wouldn't allow for that. So I had to try a new strategy.

 

[clowsui]

ori it appears to me that you don't have a very good sense of control

it could be that anther is reading your movement very well and adjusting but he hardly had to move a lot of the time which makes me believe that you're just "overcorrecting" - you move too much so you lose the optimal space

you also need to learn how to effectively pressure the opponent, lots of holes in your defense. stop randomly throwing out nairs and learn how to fast fall them or to fast fall fairs/use dtilt etc.

 

[Zankoku]

For the most part I'd agree with clowsui.

While it was hilarious watching Anther almost lose after killing himself twice, overall you seemed to just be throwing out attacks and generally playing a "HEY I'M MARTH LOL" style. Look back at your own vids. Every time you get solidly punished for missing or hitting a shield, you're doing something very wrong.

 

[Shaya]

Your spacing and aerial movements (in general fast falls and weaving) were pretty lol against Anther.

Like when Anther is charging an fsmash not even CLOSE to the ledge where you would have been easily free to ledge drop jum back on stage but you were SO SCARED then you ended up jumping right into it
WHAT HAPPENED MAN?

Ill throw out a much better (and particular to many situations) if you answer that question for me. Honestly intended to get your mindset on that one so I can see how its effecting you over all.

 

[-Kiros-]

I tried using aerial attacks on MX, but his Yoshi just wouldn't allow for that. So I had to try a new strategy.

If your aerials don't work you probably aren't spacing correctly. But Marth's ground game doesn't revolve around D-tilt and smashes. Upload a video of your air game if you can.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

If your aerials don't work you probably aren't spacing correctly. But Marth's ground game doesn't revolve around D-tilt and smashes. Upload a video of your air game if you can.

I don't have any now, so hopefully I can get some in my future matches. But I am a noobish Marth, I basically developed my own strategies and play styles without viewing others' first.

 

[-Kiros-]

Yes, being new it's a good idea to view how others play and try to implement it into your own gameplay.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

Greetings Marth boards!

It occurred to me that now I have vids of me on Youtube that I can finally have my bad habits diagnosed, and that I might even be able to improve from the critiques given.

Anyways, here are the vids:

Me Vs. Ike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXlhiDwGTNs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28CtnTXJ5FA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAzBuBfrypc
Me Vs. MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIqrkrsr9QA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEWnIRPjOv8
Me Vs. Some Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lasLMqLGJo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VICRjNrWFY (Just pretend I got U-tilted or something at the end)

Any response would be appreciated.

 

[Lord Chair]

@Inle, only watched the first match against Ally.

No offense, but you do pretty much everything wrong. At almost every moment I cringed at the decisions you made. Weird DSs to no purpose, spamming fsmash when he was at 100% (as if he'd die), barely retreating aerials, random upsmashes, punishing with moves that are too slow, blindly whiffing fairs and getting spiked due to it, I could go on but before you are really going to take advice from anyone, ponder this proposition:

Try to look at every single decision you made, and ask yourself what motivated you to do so. Are you really doing what you should be doing?

 

[Inle~Orichas]

What you are noticing is due to lack of control is my guess.
What I do wrong has (believe it or not) nothing to do with lack of a mental observation during the match.

I think very intensely about what to do in each match.

I suppose what you are saying is that there's not enough information in the Ally match for a proper diagnosis.

I did get one thing from your response. Overall, it sounds like you think I'm using the wrong moves for each situation, and that a player of Ally's stature can easily exploit that. Another tendency you noticed was the one I have of whiffing moves needlessly. My guess is that this is from a tendency to fill every second of the match with some move, in order to end the match quicker.

Would you say my play style is overly aggressive? Or is it simply a matter of not being aggressive at the right moments?

I could go on

Please continue the (very helpful) bashing of my Marth. Leave nothing out of it. The loss you see depicted in that match is more pain than any observation you could possibly point out.

Thanks for responding, and enduring this scrub of a Marth.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Alright -Kiros- or whoever's gonna judge my Marth. I've got new videos, and this time I ATTEMPT at trying my best air game. But I think I failed overall. Please watch them all, and tell me what I did wrong and how I can improve. ANTZ is just as difficult to fight as MX.

All local matches
Me (Marth) vs ANTZ (R.O.B.) - Failed Hard
Me (Marth) vs ANTZ (Samus) - Close, but failed
Me (Marth) vs ANTZ (Falco) - I manage to win
Me (Marth) vs ANTZ (Link) - One mistake allows me to win

 

[Pr0phetic]

I'm gonna critique the Samus one when I have the time, I have a lot to say...

It's come to my attention that A MAJORITY of you guys jump into the ****. Spacing is essential, and you must master that and YOUR CHOICE OF OPTIONS!!!!

 

[Lord Chair]

@Inle

Oh goodness, someone really wishes to learn things. That is very pleasing

Ok, it's a difficult match to comment on because Ally is clearly sandbagging, I'll give a full review on the first match:

0:08 You see what happens? You just randomly SH nair (not even FFed), Ally is perhaps even more random by just fsmashing, though he might as well have done nothing and ftilted your whiffed nair.
0:15 Random dash attack, probably input error.
0:18 Random fsmash that shouldn't really have been hit, stop using fsmash when it won't kill (or hit, for that matter).
0:20 Why usmash? Dancing Blade please.
0:24 Fsmash and dtilt were completely useless and anything but intimidating.
0:30 You got him offstage and decided to go for a shieldbreaker that wouldn't have hit anyway, had you gone for a dtilt you would've caught his jump, had you waited for his action then you would've got a grab.
0:46 Weird jump, don't jump there.
0:50 No comment required, he messed up and you could've spiked him there if it weren't for your messing up.
0:53 Was rather random
1:03 Why.
1:12 Don't punish airdodges with rolls, don't be too scared.
1:23 Again, why fsmash?
1:27 Try to learn the timing on catching landings, and don't upB the way you did.
1:30 You're too slow...
1:43 See what happens? You were whiffing fairs like nothing else, Snake is not capable of chasing you off-stage because his fair is just too slow, unless you give him the space and time (which you did).
1:51 Why usmash? It worked I guess, but I don't think that was your intention.
1:56 Retreat your fair in that situation.
2:03 Airdodge? Fair would've punished the bair.
2:18 Grab>DS in that situation.
2:28 That only works if you hit with the strong hitbox.
3:06 That bair was rather predictable

As for your Marth as a whole: Yes, you want to be active at every moment per se, that is not required. Being idle in this game is golden, don't be too hasty (especially if what you end up doing is just plain wrong). Get some more knowledge about the game as well, to prevent stuff like what happened at 2:28, the hitbox you got did too little damage to knock Snake out of the cypher, had you known that that wouldn't have happened. Learn to know what you can and can't punish with which moves, you try usmash as a punish rather often, only to end up failing.

Catch more landings, it is a crucial thing to know, ESPECIALLY against Snake. Learn to space better, empty SH and SHFFFair a LOT more. Use more Dancing Blade, admittedly, it isn't as good against Snake, but you missed a few clear opportunities there.

Now I should go back studying, I may add more later.

@KP I have one thing to say, Watch your jump. Sorry for not adding more than that.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Don't worry Chair I got 'em.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Please, tell me more.

 

[Megavitamins]

@Inle

0:20 Why usmash? Dancing Blade please.

U-smash does the most damage out of all of marths moves, it's why I use it instead of DB alot of the time when they lag alot

 

[-Kiros-]

Phelps, now that's starting to look like a Marth. Punish with DB, not Fsmash. Vary your aerial attacks, don't always go for SHFairFair. Learn how to best recover with Marth and conserve your midair jump. You know that Marth has a Dthrow to Fsmash combo at very low % on most characters, right? Don't try to hit someone above you with Dolphin Slash, and vary your juggling attacks, don't always reach with Uair. I'm pretty sure that you can jab away Samus' missiles, but don't quote me on that. Your Dair usage is not so great. I avoid using it over land, and don't always go for the spike when your opponent is offstage. Perfect Shield and Air/spot dodge is better for dodging projectiles than counter, especially if your opponent is on the opposite side of the stage. With your aerials, try to zone more, maybe weave in and out a little. Don't always go forward with your aerials, retreat with them too. I also wouldn't use Dair when coming down on someone. You don't seem to use Usmash or Utilt much, they are nice when you use them right.

Edit: Watched the last two. Punish with DB, don't stop if they spotdodge just keep going. Use less smashes too. Know the range of your Fsmash so you won't miss. When in doubt punish with DB. Go after Falco when he's offstage (but be able to recover from a Phantasm spike, mostly just by conserving your second jump). Don't use Dsmash when they're behind you, they can shield and punish. Actually, as was recently discussed in the Q&A, Dsmash is an advanced move and should be used only if you know what you're doing. Will finish later.

Edit2: More DB with Link, same advice as the last videos.

 

[clowsui]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y68MEp8Dz4

anybody want to crit steel samurai?

btw this is probably the 2nd best diddy kong in mw

 

[Zankoku]

A lot of those Up+Bs had like zero setup. Psychic Dolphin Slashes can be useful, but too much of it's just gonna get you killed.
Not really sure what he was going for with those grab releases. He kept getting grabbed afterward. If he wants a good setup then he should probably be more confident with his decisions afterward.
When there's a banana in front of Diddy, and he's holding a banana, it'd be a good idea to not approach. The banana in front will disappear soon enough anyway.
He didn't have much advantage throughout the game, lol. Lots and lots of single hits but his pressure and followup attempts never really seemed to actually get to Count.

 

[Lord Chair]

U-smash does the most damage out of all of marths moves, it's why I use it instead of DB alot of the time when they lag alot

If you actually looked at the video you'd notice he was too slow, either because his reaction sucked or because it simply wasn't possible. Either way, Dancing Blade would've done the job better in either situation.

Please understand what you're talking about (as in: context) before you blatantly clamor (pleonasm) random hints.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Please, tell me more.

0:00 to 0:07 - WTH??? Why would you sit here for such a long time? Marth needs to be aggressive in this fight, your basically saying please shoot me.
0:08 - That was actually really lucky that you clanked the projectile, and jab would've done that better. Try to powershield as you can react faster out of shield, and get better positioning.
0:18 - First example of where you need to adjust your spacing. DB is a better OoS punisher in this situation, as the samus was in a crouch animation, out of Fair's reach.
0:22 - Dashing away from a projectile? Most projectiles travel much faster and cover greater distances. By dashing away instead of powershielding, you lost a good amount of stage control, allowing the Samus a free time back on stage.
0:31- Never land in front of someones shield after a blocked aerial, as it leads to a shieldgrab or even worst.
0:41 - Another situation in which powershielding would be way more rewarding. That whiffed counter left you completely vulnerable, a jab or the aforementioned, powershielding, would allow you more options to retaliate.
0:53 to 0:55 - Flinging attacks like this is not really doing you much but leaving you open for an opponent attacks. Basically your swinging your sword without any thoughts hoping for a hit.
0:56 - Ouch, literally jumped right into the **** -_-
1:41 - Lucky opponent did not fire that shot, as that would've been a stock right there. Your being careless in your approaches, still throwing out unsafe attacks and movements. Also, it seems you need to master the use of DB, as your mistake causes you the stock.
2:13 - Probably a late reaction or something? I dunno how to call that one....
2:45 - you really just let him do all of that? Multiple times that would've been a free fair, maybe even a spike if timed right.... -_-

- Spacing
- Stage Control
- Utilizing your judment on what options to use
- Learn how to apply DB as a punisher
- Stop literally throwing yourself at the opponent. it is highly unsafe, and you get punished from it more than rewarded.
- Ledge Traps. You never really pressured you opponent offstage. each time the Samus was allowed to safetly return. Marth has a good pressure game with his aerials offstage, utilize them!

 

[-Kiros-]

Phelps, yes listen to Rukkiko, he probably has more specific things to say than I do.

 

[clowsui]

any more crits for steel? diddy kong MU is something he's working on a lot so any more tips would be appreciated

 

[Pr0phetic]

I'll get to it clowsui.