Guide The Official Luigi Matchup Database! - Currently discussing: Various

[Krynxe]

Puff vs Luigi is my most familiar matchup by far. I posted a lot on the puff boards already, but I can regurgitate some stuff if anybody wants any thoughts from a puff perspective.

 

[Cinbad]

Yes please

 

[BluEG]

I still can't beat Marth. I know what to do but it just doesn't click I guess.

How bout that puff advice though ?

 

[Pakman]

Have you checked out ROFL's Marth guide? It really changed the game for me after I read it. It should still hold up pretty well.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=91241

 

[BluEG]

I've read it a few times, but it doesn't hurt to read it again (and again).

I'm mostly having trouble getting any aerial follow-ups, and getting into his space in general. I feel like he can always put that Fair in the way, and then Luigi does his floating thing and gets hit by another 1-2 fairs or utilt/uair.

Should i be light shielding practically everything marth does except Fsmash? (I think luigi might slide too far from that one)

Marf so mean to me

 

[KirbyKaze]

To follow Marth with characters with limited combo games you typically want to get under him and then just do whatever's appropriate at the time. You can also attempt to bait him because Marth's DJ is small and his moves protect really obvious spots and/or are weak when he's not spaced properly, which opens up a lot of potential in counterattacks. This kind of following requires some reaction & good positioning by you (which means good tech skill with your movement is not optional) but it's possible to get some good damage.

You should really consider crouching as a means to get follows on Marth when you're at low percents. His weak moves are pretty susceptible to crouching. This will have the added bonus of also preventing you from being launched by his combo break attempts when he does them well (being hit for 13% is preferable to being **** comboed). On that note, CC d-smash and grab are perfectly acceptable trades with his weak aerials. Shield is also usable but sometimes gets nerfed by Luigi's traction. It has some options that aren't available with crouch though and is better vs dairs so it's worth some consideration sometimes. When crouch no longer works, shield becomes a lot better too.

I think uair is really good vs Marth for following just 'cuz it hits in a spot he's conveniently bad at protecting and trades are favourable for Luigi 'cuz his moves do more damage in that kind of situation. You can also attempt to sneak under things with ranged low ground moves (so, down smash). This is okay because Marth's fair does a poor job of protecting his feet. You can also attempt to stuff him if you read how he's coming down - bair and his high-reaching normals are decent for this sort of thing.

 

[Vudujin]

Stay on the ground too.

 

[Theftz22]

Might a well-timed WD->Spot Dodge help get in? None of his hitboxes stay out for that long.

 

[BluEG]

About a month old so my techskill is a lottt better now (In this video I had very recently switched to using my right hand for wave dashing)

But a vs Marth critique would be nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE4vgQu8_PU

 

[Vudujin]

The first thing you did on BF was full hop. Don't do that. If you're playing a good Marth and you jump in the air to approach you will die.

The reaction to the clashing cyclone was cool.

Luigi's U-throw is his best combo starter on just about every character.

Approach with jab > tilts/grab or D smash more.

Nice Bluigi, BluEG

 

[dragnet4000]

I haven't found any Ganondorf yet. So I ask, what do you do vs a Ganon? My smash buddy overpowers me with his stupid aerials. And what do you do to work on DI?
OH AND DK. That damn monkey. Help me with them plz.

 

[BluEG]

Vs Ganon.

Really pay attention to when he spaces his aerials. If he wiffs any of them, make sure you're in his face. I find Ganon to be pretty helpless vs Luigi's combos so milk any chance you get for what its worth. As for comboing him, Up-tilt, Up-air, Up-smash, and Bair work wonders.

A well timed dair or fair pretty much owns Ganon's recovery. Hes stupidly easy to edgeguard.

That Fair gets annoying, but try to trick him into wiffing it so you can rush in for a quick grab.

People say he's a bad matchup but I think as long as you keep the pressure up, hes manageable.



I've got some more puff questions from my side.
I have the esteemed honor of getting to play with Hungrybox on a consistent basis now that hes back at school.....and he CC's practically everything.
Normally I'd decide "ok, time to start going for grabs more" But puff freaking ducks under grabs. Any thoughts on what I could be doing before like 40/50%?

Also, has anyone found a decent way to escape jigg's Bair chains? or should i just concede to the fact that I'm playing Hbox >.<

 

[dragnet4000]

Vs Ganon.

Really pay attention to when he spaces his aerials. If he wiffs any of them, make sure you're in his face. I find Ganon to be pretty helpless vs Luigi's combos so milk any chance you get for what its worth. As for comboing him, Up-tilt, Up-air, Up-smash, and Bair work wonders.

A well timed dair or fair pretty much owns Ganon's recovery. Hes stupidly easy to edgeguard.

That Fair gets annoying, but try to trick him into wiffing it so you can rush in for a quick grab.

People say he's a bad matchup but I think as long as you keep the pressure up, hes manageable.

The only problem is at low %'s. His recovery is why I'm not groveling for answers against Ganon. He CC's everything and I only deal a good Dsmash or Ftilt before he kicks me. When at 60% and up, I have no problems. I can usually Chaingrab or get a dsmash in, as I've said before. XP

 

[BluEG]

First off, don't f-tilt until they get some % on them. That pretty much goes for most characters I feel like unless youre retreating with it.

Jab -> grab works well, try to not pummel and down/up throw as soon as possible so he doesn't have time to input DI and you should be able to get a free upsmash to combo off of such that you get him at a high enough % to do normal stuff.

 

[Theftz22]

Might a well-timed WD->Spot Dodge help get in? None of his hitboxes stay out for that long.

Just to follow-up, this idea sounds really implausible, but I've had a lot of success with it. It's not so hard to react to his attacks, and none of them stay out long enough to hit after the spot dodge ends. This is a reliable way to get in on marth (though don't overuse it). It's not bad against other characters either, just best against marth.

And the most important thing I learned about this matchup recently, STAY GROUNDED!!

 

[BluEG]

So last night I discovered an interesting edgeguard against fox/falco if they are trying to sweetspot of the ledge with phantasm.

Basically stand at the edge, and time your up-B to go off a little before they would sweet spot and fox/falco get hits by the coin and plummets to their death. However this won't work if they are expecting it since they can just firefox right after.

IDK something fun xD

 

[Cinbad]

I did something similar with the d-tilt

But like you said, it only really works once to surprise them

 

[Theftz22]

Dude when are playing?

 

[Theftz22]

Luigi is way too susceptible to being shine-spiked by fox. Is there any way to deal with this or should I just keep using marth in the MU?

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha ... what's the point in playing Luigi at all if you're gonna run away from the most common character in the game ...

Just be vigilant and know how to grab the ledge after he shines you on the ground

If you're talking about jumpoff spike getting you a lot ... well yeah it's pretty dumb, but if you get the read you can hit them before they shinespike (obviously opening you up to them just baiting your attack and shinespiking you afterward, but they're playing a good character after all)

If you're below the ledge against a Fox with invincibility you're kinda boned but well ... that's Fox

I mean the upside to playing Luigi is most Foxes suck at DIing everything and run into all your moves

If you fight someone who knows how to deal with Luigi (or plays mad abusive) then it's going to be pretty (super duper) miserable

....But you're playing Luigi, so .... either deal with it or like ... play a better character xD

 

[Vudujin]

God, my spacies suck.

 

[BluEG]

Gotta techchase extremely well against them >.>

 

[Theftz22]

Haha ... what's the point in playing Luigi at all if you're gonna run away from the most common character in the game ...

Just be vigilant and know how to grab the ledge after he shines you on the ground

If you're talking about jumpoff spike getting you a lot ... well yeah it's pretty dumb, but if you get the read you can hit them before they shinespike (obviously opening you up to them just baiting your attack and shinespiking you afterward, but they're playing a good character after all)

If you're below the ledge against a Fox with invincibility you're kinda boned but well ... that's Fox

I mean the upside to playing Luigi is most Foxes suck at DIing everything and run into all your moves

If you fight someone who knows how to deal with Luigi (or plays mad abusive) then it's going to be pretty (super duper) miserable

....But you're playing Luigi, so .... either deal with it or like ... play a better character xD

I was more referring to the way that, when recovering, if you side-B anywhere close to the stage, it has so many frames of ending lag, fox can easily shine you and you die (w/out misfire). And if you don't side-B anywhere close to the stage, you're just gonna die.

There are plenty of other match-ups for me to use Luigi. Besides, marth is also fun.

 

[Wenbobular]

Well ... Luigi's recovery is kinda bad ... just DI mad good so you're always recovering super high <_<

And uhh ... whatever ~_~ I think if you care about like ... doing well in tournaments you should consider having a fulltime main

If you just wanna do whatever then I won't say anything

 

[Theftz22]

I think the only hope is just to charge up one big side-B, accept the fact that you're gonna get shined, but save your jump and hope to be close enough to recover with jump+tornado+upB. If only I was a better masher.

I wouldn't assume that having a CP character means doing worse in tourney. There are some notably successful people with CP characters ((m2k, armada, mango) though in the last case that's not so much CPing I guess). Yes that's grammar math hybrid.

 

[Seartu]

In Vudujin's set vs. Kage at FC I noticed his luigi using his Up-B as a gimp near the ledge. I've started to use this when I recognize an opportunity but I'm still not sure exactly why it works when it does.

Can anyone elaborate? I'm sure it's a simple answer.

 

[Wenbobular]

It works because people instinctively tech ... but since it has no knockback they airdodge and die ~_~

 

[BluEG]

Some people can't react fast enough, it just pops then out of their up-b quickly and suddenly so they either airdodge or drop before they realized what happended. (I love doing it to spacies or falcon)

 

[Vudujin]

If they're on the ledge trying to edgehog, press up-b just a little bit before you think they're going to roll on the stage; Your coin hits them off the stage, and their roll registers as an air dodge. That's why his recovery is actually kinda good. (yes it's bad, but it's not that bad) just when you think you've "checkmated" his recovery by forcing him to up-b, you've really just narrowed your chances of getting or losing a stock to 50/50.

 

[BluEG]

Really having a lot of trouble getting through puff bair spam. I just don't know how to get through it. I always approach at what I think is the right time and get a bair to the face.

I've tried different approaches. CC downsmash can get her, but not too reliable since its tough timing. Tries Wd->duck->usmash or just match it with my own bair spam, but nothing seems to really fit. How do you guys get around it?

Also, finding it very hard to grab puff, she's always in the freakin air and landing with bair so idk what to do about that.

And does anyone have basic IC's advice? Fly amanita is in my pools for big house I got no clue on how that ones supposed to go. Blitz Nana with a 0-death? Lol

 

[Wenbobular]

Just do double aerials on their shield it's so cheap

In all honesty first aerial (Dair has most stun) -> late nair -> Dsmash is pretty cheap (probably hits Nana)
Be careful if they actually retaliate out of shield between the first and 2nd aerial though

I mean Fly is pretty good so random advice probably isn't gonna be much help haha

Jiggs:
Wavedash under the Bair -> upsmash is pretty good I think
Also ledgedash upsmash will hit Puffs all the time if you do it mad fast

 

[Theftz22]

Ftilt is your greatest spacing tool in the neutral game against puff. It's the only thing you have that has enough range to seriously compete with the bair. Getting the spacing and timing down for being able to hit puff with it after she bairs is tough, but necessary. WDing under to upsmash can work if you're playing a puff who likes to do double jump bairs, but the angles just don't work on puffs who stay low to the ground. I wouldn't try doing it too much at lower percents, but you can fish for kills with it if you're having trouble getting a dsmash in or getting the dthrow to fair combo.

 

[BluEG]

I really underestimated Ftilt in the match up. Thanks for that.

Angled up is really effective on that ****er.

 

[KirbyKaze]

And does anyone have basic IC's advice? Fly amanita is in my pools for big house I got no clue on how that ones supposed to go. Blitz Nana with a 0-death? Lol

You're welcome.

 

[BluEG]

You're welcome.

Looks like the most frustrating thing on the planet o.O

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha Fly is bad at wobbling

 

[Vudujin]

That's good to know.

 

[BluEG]

Not being able to grab IC's sucks.

Gotta get rid of that pink one.


Also, isnt wobbling banned?

 

[Vudujin]

You can grab them though. Luigi's good at it. Just use f or back throw. MAKE SURE YOU HIT THE OTHER ONE.

 

[BluEG]

Can Nana DI? I think I should just try to 0-Death her ASAP