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I really don't think you can hit marth OOS if he is doing SH nairs or fairs. Before I can even recover from the WD lag, I am 90% sure he can hit the ground, L cancel, and do another fair/nair.How do you hit Marth OOS?
Do a high momentum WD and then shield
Slide into sword move (ideally he doesn't grab)
If you got enough momentum and/or his timing was sucky enough then free move OOS
If he did a laggy enough move (f-smash, rising fair, etc) then free move OOS
If not, back off and try again (this will happen a lot more and more the better they are)
Also works with crouch but in exchange for eating damage you get your whole ground moveset (smashes, tilts)
In general if Marth jumps this isn't bad because sneaking under stuff or trading isn't too hard
Same with if he plays super distance (unless he's a pro gimper and he's camping the edge area, in which case it's meh - not the worst but just annoying when you get gimped but that position gives you chances to get earlier KOs than normal too so double-edged sword for him)
If he plays ground control with offensive DD and denies your WD space then it's rough IMO
Any advice with the jiggly puff matchup? Is a luigi's only hope to try and land as many Ariel's as possible? The gayness of puff pretty much takes away luigi's must needed combo game. Thanks in advance for any tips or advice!
I fully agree with the wait and reacting strategy being great for Luigi players. It is best for beating aggressive opponents.No offense to Vudujin, whose Luigi play likely led me to the slippery I-talian himself, but I think zipping around constantly is probably NOT the best playstyle or movement armature for Luigi. WDing is still the best way to get around, but I think Luigi is trickiest and best when he's using his quick bursts of speed to surprise or mix-up. Luigi can do a LOT with dashing, short WDs and careful dodging. To re-iterate, consistently focusing on spacing out Luigi's moves safely and maintaining stage control seems to me to be more effective than to act like a second hand Fox and try to rush down.
What do y'all think about it? Sorry for late-night incoherence, but hopefully we can get into some more great Luigi discussion. Cheers all
Bamesy's Learning Luigi Lessons guide has info on the match up.How can I beat a campy Falcon who is all about set ups
**** falcon's nair
also the guy shield grabs and crouch cancels like his life depends on it
Dude are you like my ****ing twin brother or somethingSomething that I've been thinking about (been considering philosophy of the game after browsing the great thread in the Mewtwo boards) is how important execution is, especially for a character like Luigi. And I say that because the exploration of Smash, and even further, competitive, philosophy is totally ignored every time you full hop instead of wavedash. You can try to mitigate the negative aspects with various options but ultimately you've still either directly opened yourself up to punishment or forced yourself to rethink your strategy when you make an execution error. Watching Abate at ROM7 (congratulations btw, Hax will never beat you lol) you can see that he makes very few execution errors which carried him farther in bracket than most people think Luigi can go.
This all may seem obvious but I've been struggling with my execution lately to the point where I'm beginning to find ways to punish myself for every mistake. I just wanted to reiterate to anyone reading the thread that you should practice your wavedashes and every other aspect of Luigi tech if you want to take him anywhere.
I've been experimenting with down-throw, tech-chase wavedash into up+b ping. Has anyone else had success with this?On a more serious note, Up-throw-->follow di with WD----->shoryuken.
Seems to work on fastfallers at percentages where you WD to Chaingrab, instead of grabbing up-b? I haven't had a chance to practice thison real people but it works vs. level 9s and in training mode it reads as an actual combo. Has anyone messed around with this?
Can you explain wavedashing in place a little more? The application of it in relation to tech chasing. Is it just to keep a tempo on your button pressing so you can react to the tech as fast as possible?I like to wd in place to tech chase. I don't think you should go for ping unless you know it's going to kill though. If it doesn't kill at best you reset to neutral and at worst you get punished for it.