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Guide The Official Luigi Matchup Database! - Currently discussing: Various

Seartu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
215
Location
San Francisco
On a more serious note, Up-throw-->follow di with WD----->shoryuken.

Seems to work on fastfallers at percentages where you WD to Chaingrab, instead of grabbing up-b? I haven't had a chance to practice thison real people but it works vs. level 9s and in training mode it reads as an actual combo. Has anyone messed around with this?
 

rjgbadger

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
923
Location
Reno, Nevada
unless you've got that combo ON LOCK

theres going to be a lot of jumping/shining out

and a lot of punishes you wish you had
 

Abate

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
217
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
How do you hit Marth OOS?

Do a high momentum WD and then shield

Slide into sword move (ideally he doesn't grab)

If you got enough momentum and/or his timing was sucky enough then free move OOS

If he did a laggy enough move (f-smash, rising fair, etc) then free move OOS

If not, back off and try again (this will happen a lot more and more the better they are)

Also works with crouch but in exchange for eating damage you get your whole ground moveset (smashes, tilts)

In general if Marth jumps this isn't bad because sneaking under stuff or trading isn't too hard

Same with if he plays super distance (unless he's a pro gimper and he's camping the edge area, in which case it's meh - not the worst but just annoying when you get gimped but that position gives you chances to get earlier KOs than normal too so double-edged sword for him)

If he plays ground control with offensive DD and denies your WD space then it's rough IMO
I really don't think you can hit marth OOS if he is doing SH nairs or fairs. Before I can even recover from the WD lag, I am 90% sure he can hit the ground, L cancel, and do another fair/nair.

If I were to keep trying this, I would eventually get shield poked by his nair. :mad:
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Upthrow -> Upb is a legitimate KO finish on Fox on some stages if they don't DI far enough
Knowing when it'll kill them is good if you don't want to bother with an annoying edgeguard
 

kodeyluigi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
132
Any advice with the jiggly puff matchup? Is a luigi's only hope to try and land as many Ariel's as possible? The gayness of puff pretty much takes away luigi's must needed combo game. Thanks in advance for any tips or advice!
 

pokemongeof

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
1,141
Location
In The Year of Luigi
Any advice with the jiggly puff matchup? Is a luigi's only hope to try and land as many Ariel's as possible? The gayness of puff pretty much takes away luigi's must needed combo game. Thanks in advance for any tips or advice!

:luigimelee: vs :jigglypuffmelee: MU is actually in :luigimelee:'s Favor. See Puff is floaty, but so is Luigi, but Weegee is more offensive. And yes, Throw out some aerials. If u get a grab, try to get an aerial after it.

Also Misfire > Rest
 

Griffard

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
748
Location
Geneva, IL/New Orleans, LA
Yo so not sure which threads are most active on this board, but I am now hardcore maining Luigi. For life. I'm all about this slippery guy, I can't stop won't stop until I'm the grungiest Italian around, ya dig? Also I'm completely serious. The joy of getting Shoryus in tournament, the thrill of watching people's faces turn to horror as they discover Luigi is a character with moves.. it feels good. I just feel the best playing Weeg of all chars right now. So, what's up 8)
 

Smash G 0 D

Leave Luck to Heaven
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
3,599
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Luigi vs Jigglypuff is not that bad. Luigi's speed makes this a reasonable matchup. Early kills with Usmash and relatively early with Dsmash. Your air speed and ability to get up and down much more quickly than she gives you a pretty big advantage.

I've never found a practical use for stopping WD with Fsmash in tourney. Maybe it'd be an interesting option during techchases.
 

Pakman

WWMD
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
6,861
Location
Phoenix Foundation
Luigi's floatiness can be a downside when you are getting hit by bair after bair :(. But the matchup is probably in Luigi's favor slightly.
 

-Se7en-

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
442
[Luigi vs Fox] - I always wavedash into dsmash,then wavedash into utilt > grab > up throw >wavedash utilt > uthrow chain grab (a few times) and then wavedash usmash.
 

Verda Stelo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Atlanta, GA
I don't think Luigi should be getting hit by Puff's bair repeatedly. Try smash DIing up and away. Cover your return to the stage with aerials and you should be good. Off stage versus Puff is a total nightmare.
 

Verda Stelo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Atlanta, GA
I don't like to ping Puff very much for fear of getting rested. My personal favorite setup for it is (wavedash>)jab>ping though. I like up smash OOS at high percents and tornado OOS at lower ones in the rare event that a Puff gets that far in on my shield anyway
 

Verda Stelo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Atlanta, GA
So there's one good Samus main in GA and I have no right to be competing with him in tournament -- but I am. Initially I believed the matchup to be even if not tilted in Samus' favor given her ability to control space that Luigi needs, but apparently this is not the case; Luigi actually wins this matchup but I can't identify why exactly. I recorded our set (embarrassingly bad loss on FD, much closer loss on BF) with my phone so I'll probably edit the link into this post later if no one else can provide a better example.
 

Verda Stelo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Atlanta, GA
Ftilt is a great move but it is imperative that it is spaced properly. Commit too hard with it and it's an easy punish out of shield for your opponent. It won't combo so when you connect with it you should already be thinking about how you're going to react to your opponent's next move.
 

Griffard

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
748
Location
Geneva, IL/New Orleans, LA
I know about F-tilt in general.. perhaps I should've quoted you, I was asking about the Samus matchup. I haven't played it very frequently but I was pretty shaken by the mu too. I want to know if f-tilt is really crucial in eliminating missiles and also just contesting for space on the ground.
 

Verda Stelo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Atlanta, GA
Lol sorry it was late when I saw your post. Ftilt can cover your entry if you angle it upwards, but you should always be careful to space yourself so that you are close to Samus yet safely out of her range. From here you can do whatever you want. I like to use dair waveland to get in too. If your opponent is really laying on the missiles I believe you can swag on em with reverse utilts.
 

Griffard

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
748
Location
Geneva, IL/New Orleans, LA
It was late when I wrote that post too :p
I don't know what I was thinking really, Down-B already works SO WELL at eliminating the threat of missiles and also works as a surprise approach, it does a ton in that matchup.
 

Griffard

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
748
Location
Geneva, IL/New Orleans, LA
Not sure what the best thread for this is, but this helps every matchup most likely --
Luigi's spot dodge is the best thing. WD in all fast like and buffer that ish with shield and C-stick down, then the most you'll have to do if they bit (grabbed/did a thing) is pivot or do another short WD to punish. My friends no longer think Luigi is gimmicky at all, all his 'gimmicks' we refer to as 'features' LOL.

I had a session tonight to prepare for a big tourney [at least by Louisiana standards] and felt like I was playing some of my best smash ever in singles by incorporating the tool of spot dodge and also by just playing VERY patient. A lot of the hallmark Weeg players have said something to the extent of 'Wait and React' and I think it's really true.

No offense to Vudujin, whose Luigi play likely led me to the slippery I-talian himself, but I think zipping around constantly is probably NOT the best playstyle or movement armature for Luigi. WDing is still the best way to get around, but I think Luigi is trickiest and best when he's using his quick bursts of speed to surprise or mix-up. Luigi can do a LOT with dashing, short WDs and careful dodging. To re-iterate, consistently focusing on spacing out Luigi's moves safely and maintaining stage control seems to me to be more effective than to act like a second hand Fox and try to rush down.

What do y'all think about it? Sorry for late-night incoherence, but hopefully we can get into some more great Luigi discussion. Cheers all
 

Verda Stelo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Atlanta, GA
Luigi's spot dodge is a pretty good one but I would be hesitant to incorporate into your game so much that it becomes a feature (that is perfect btw). A spot dodge habit is very easy to pick up on and punish. You can mix up your own spot dodges of course and turn it into mindgame.
 

Zelbertoad

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
66
I agree with Verda Stelo on the spot dodge. I know from experience of picking that bad habit up.

No offense to Vudujin, whose Luigi play likely led me to the slippery I-talian himself, but I think zipping around constantly is probably NOT the best playstyle or movement armature for Luigi. WDing is still the best way to get around, but I think Luigi is trickiest and best when he's using his quick bursts of speed to surprise or mix-up. Luigi can do a LOT with dashing, short WDs and careful dodging. To re-iterate, consistently focusing on spacing out Luigi's moves safely and maintaining stage control seems to me to be more effective than to act like a second hand Fox and try to rush down.

What do y'all think about it? Sorry for late-night incoherence, but hopefully we can get into some more great Luigi discussion. Cheers all
I fully agree with the wait and reacting strategy being great for Luigi players. It is best for beating aggressive opponents.

I think constantly wavedashing across the stage is not good either. I can see the advantage though to wavedashing frequently across the stage for pressuring opponents and establishing more stage control.

I think of Luigi as a floaty hybrid of shiek and falcon. Luigi has falcon's up tilt and similar speed and has a strong fair and good down smash like shiek.

Luigi has a strategy of prediction then pressure then pursuit which is similar to falcon's strategy of prediction then punishment then pursuit. Luigi's goal with this strategy is punishment. I got this last part from Bamesy's Learning Luigi guide.
 

Verda Stelo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Atlanta, GA
Counterpoint to dismissal of constant movement would be Blea Gelo. He has the best Luigi movement bar none and people get thrown off hard by it. The secret to utilizing Luigi's crazy movement is to be so familiar with and in control if it that you can be unpredictable while still having the necessary patience and reactions to punish properly. This is ultimately a question of style, though, and I think a great part about playing a character with such a great and unique movement game.
 

Scarlet Bean

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
193
How can I beat a campy Falcon who is all about set ups
**** falcon's nair
also the guy shield grabs and crouch cancels like his life depends on it
 

Zelbertoad

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
66
How can I beat a campy Falcon who is all about set ups
**** falcon's nair
also the guy shield grabs and crouch cancels like his life depends on it
Bamesy's Learning Luigi Lessons guide has info on the match up.
http://smashboards.com/threads/bamesys-lll-last-update-highlightings-legend-cleaning.266567/

If he has a habit of shield grabbing then stay out of his grab range and bait his shield grabs if you predict them. Then punish him while he is still in the grabbing animation.
 

Verda Stelo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Atlanta, GA
Something that I've been thinking about (been considering philosophy of the game after browsing the great thread in the Mewtwo boards) is how important execution is, especially for a character like Luigi. And I say that because the exploration of Smash, and even further, competitive, philosophy is totally ignored every time you full hop instead of wavedash. You can try to mitigate the negative aspects with various options but ultimately you've still either directly opened yourself up to punishment or forced yourself to rethink your strategy when you make an execution error. Watching Abate at ROM7 (congratulations btw, Hax will never beat you lol) you can see that he makes very few execution errors which carried him farther in bracket than most people think Luigi can go.

This all may seem obvious but I've been struggling with my execution lately to the point where I'm beginning to find ways to punish myself for every mistake. I just wanted to reiterate to anyone reading the thread that you should practice your wavedashes and every other aspect of Luigi tech if you want to take him anywhere.
 

Scarlet Bean

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
193
Something that I've been thinking about (been considering philosophy of the game after browsing the great thread in the Mewtwo boards) is how important execution is, especially for a character like Luigi. And I say that because the exploration of Smash, and even further, competitive, philosophy is totally ignored every time you full hop instead of wavedash. You can try to mitigate the negative aspects with various options but ultimately you've still either directly opened yourself up to punishment or forced yourself to rethink your strategy when you make an execution error. Watching Abate at ROM7 (congratulations btw, Hax will never beat you lol) you can see that he makes very few execution errors which carried him farther in bracket than most people think Luigi can go.

This all may seem obvious but I've been struggling with my execution lately to the point where I'm beginning to find ways to punish myself for every mistake. I just wanted to reiterate to anyone reading the thread that you should practice your wavedashes and every other aspect of Luigi tech if you want to take him anywhere.
Dude are you like my ****ing twin brother or something
its like our minds are connected dude
 
Last edited:

onehunna

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
27
Location
Seattle, Washington
On a more serious note, Up-throw-->follow di with WD----->shoryuken.

Seems to work on fastfallers at percentages where you WD to Chaingrab, instead of grabbing up-b? I haven't had a chance to practice thison real people but it works vs. level 9s and in training mode it reads as an actual combo. Has anyone messed around with this?
I've been experimenting with down-throw, tech-chase wavedash into up+b ping. Has anyone else had success with this?
 

Verda Stelo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Atlanta, GA
I like to wd in place to tech chase. I don't think you should go for ping unless you know it's going to kill though. If it doesn't kill at best you reset to neutral and at worst you get punished for it.
 

onehunna

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
27
Location
Seattle, Washington
I like to wd in place to tech chase. I don't think you should go for ping unless you know it's going to kill though. If it doesn't kill at best you reset to neutral and at worst you get punished for it.
Can you explain wavedashing in place a little more? The application of it in relation to tech chasing. Is it just to keep a tempo on your button pressing so you can react to the tech as fast as possible?
 
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