Guide The Official Luigi Matchup Database! - Currently discussing: Various

[Winston]

edit: double post

 

[Winston]

There aren't really any great options... you can change up your fastfalling on the dairs, or you can try to get to the side of him and then change your fall speed with down B. Mostly though you need him to do it suboptimally, because the situation is vastly in his favor...

 

[ChivalRuse]

Luigi players need to incorporate wavedash in place / dash dancing more imo.

And by wavedash in place, I mean wavedash -> wavedash in place. Yeah, I blew your minds just now.

 

[StretchNutz]

Luigi players need to blah blah blah

speak for yourself, little man.

One good thing to do when you're above Marth is stall with down b to mess with his timing... usually only works once or twice per match though. The trick is, if you execute it successfully, to retreat at maximum speed once you hit the ground. Cause then he can't punish you all that goodly. Cept with dash attack.

 

[Thoraxe]

yeah, so i was playing a pretty good local fox in some friendlies the other day with my weegy on FoD, and i couldn't help but notice, half the time i get that match-up on FoD i land a nasty 0-death combo on fox. Is it just me, or is this map the bomb for luigi against spacies? it seems varying platform heights leads to nasty Nair to smash to other aerial combos imo. Oh and i discovered something verrrry interesting whilst pwning fox, you know how you can jab reset... well i managed to dash attack reset for like the 12ish damage and then proceeded to Dsmash for a flawless reset combo.... it filled my pants with cream and reinvigorated my dusty weegy play... its a shame weegy boards is dead but understandable... maining sheik and marth cuz lets face it... weegy struggles against top tiers.

 

[Bamesy]

For some reason WDing in place and DDing are considered 'evil' by Luigi players...?
Yet they're amazing.

Oh, btw...


Grab more.

 

[Ch3s]

What should luigi do if he is above a marth? Well timed dair doesn't work, you can't trade with nair to recover and if you keeping airdodging the marth will eventually wait for it.

I know this question is old, but i play Taj and Tai alot, and pretty much the only advice they can give me is to always DI away from the stage. Thats pretty much all you can do against a really good one, anything else that works is them messing up or you getting lucky. Take an uair and di it hard to the side, then learn to get back to the stage just far enough away to not missile but not get faired. If you fail di, you can try to use cyclone, airdodge towards their back, or dair if ur feeling lucky

 

[Bamesy]

Mixing up your fast falls to space Dairs/Bairs/etc and using DownB to alter the momentum are some of my seemingly most useful tools, personally.
They may be small, but every bit counts and often the tiny thing makes all the difference needed.

 

[Thoraxe]

no one really posts in here nowadays, but i thought i might as well inform the general luigi public that peach can be CG very low 0-maybe 25 with Fthrows WD before she can pop out her Nair or jump out of it due to her slow vertical rise. this is only really practical on FD but i thought it was pretty neat. it probably can be di'd out of but it has to be hard at least. this is a match-up thread so i might as well state i think the peach weegy MU is 55 45 peach favor, but i like this MU cuz playing peach is meh.

 

[Wiggins]

What's everyone's views on the Ganon vs Weegee match up?

I actually really like this match up. Ganon is a big target, so it's kind of easy to apply pressure with SH double aerials. I've really only played, like, 2 really good ganons. But it's always a blast. Am I weird or something for liking this match up?

It's the same for the Weegee vs Marth match up. I don't trust any of my pocket characters(CF, fox, falco) against marth in a serious match. I feel like I know the Weegee/Marth match up pretty well for my current position in terms of how skilled of a player I am. I'm not pro. But I've played alot of Marths in my day so I've come to really enjoy the match up. Am I crazy?

 

[Winston]

You aren't crazy about the Marth matchups; pretty much every Marth sucks at it so Luigi does fine.

As for Ganon... pressuring him with sh double aerials? which really good ganons are these? >__> That doesn't work...

I don't know the matchup well enough myself to say how much Ganon is favored, but I think he definitely is.

 

[Wiggins]

Pfft. I don't know man. It's been a while since I've played a Ganon. But I remember(or at least thought I remembered) doing that. Meh. I meant to put "pressure on shield," I guess. I'm kind of running off of memory at this point for it, really. The last Ganon I played against was Pawls from Texas at a tournament a few weeks ago. We only got to play one match, and he beat me. But I really do like the Ganon match up. The other Ganon I used to play pretty consistently was Zakosai. Unfortunately he's in Korea now(air force).

But yea. Either way, I still like both those match ups.

 

[Winston]

Right, I'm saying that double aerial on shield is terrible vs. Ganon, because it's a free hit for him. If you do an aerial early on his shield he can either uair or bair oos, depending on which direction he's facing, before you get out of lag. You can't outrange those moves, haha.

Nothing wrong with liking unfavorable matchups; it's a good thing probably. just trying to convey some facts

 

[Wiggins]

Well then. Looks like my Ganon recollection is a little rusty.

Oh well. What are some good tips for fighting Ganon since we're on the subject?


Also, I had to play against Wobbles at that tourney.... I need IC's match up help. Never fought one before, so it was insane. I was told sh dair -> waveland behind popo was good for pressure and keep away. But I'm not sure.

 

[Winston]

Almost every reasonable character can punish early aerials on shield =\

About ICs... my friend who plays ICs calls the strategy "attacking at the fastest possible rate", and it's a fairly accurate description.

Yeah, you want to dair the front of their shield whenever you can. Luigi wins the matchup by pressuring them with aerials, wearing down their shield. Be careful not to rising aerial the back of their shield, though, as then they can get you with bair oos. Just be wary of bair in general when they are facing backwards.

Dsmash is tempting to use but I'd say only use it if you get a read, because it can be punished oos (though the timing is strict). Just wavedash up to them and aerial for the most part. I dont think aerialing the front of their shield and wavelanding behind them is good as a standard option but feel free to try it as a mixup. Aerial the front of their shield -> waveland away is pretty safe.

Once you get a stray hit just do a lot of attacks (mostly aerials cause they have the least lag) and just continue comboing/separating/disrupting them them as best you can. Double aerials and aerial -> waveland into more moves really shine here. Once nana is offstage, as long as you aren't at too high a percent, just jump offstage and hit her as she comes back for the kill. You might eat a hit from popo as you come back, but it probably won't kill you. If nana can't make it back with her double jump, but hasn't been hit out of it yet (i.e. popo can save her with up B or side B), you can also just go fight popo and stall him until nana dies.

That's the basics I guess. Your preferred situation is aerialing the front of their shield, and the situation you want to avoid is doing something that can get you grabbed, or engaging from directly above them. Use your mobility to do tricky stuff and to avoid ice moves. For example, you can short hop over ice blocks and threaten to waveland towards them, or onto a platform. That's all I got, cause I'm not excellent at the matchup. Vist is way better than me at it but he's probably not gonna post LOL

watch Vist vs. Chudat matches if you want some videos to study

 

[Wiggins]

Thanks for the tips. I doubt I'll be playing ANY IC's in the near future, seeing as how I doubt I'll ever run into Wobbles again. But it is nice to have an idea of what to do against them.

 

[Vudujin]

I want to know everything about Luigi vs. Falcon. I'm tired of being horrible at that matchup.

 

[Pakman]

I want to know everything about Luigi vs. Falcon. I'm tired of being horrible at that matchup.

WD uptilt.

 

[Vudujin]

Nice

Tell me more

 

[Thoraxe]

di down and away on his dthrows. ****ing upthrow CG his *** at lower mid percents, end it with a upsmash or dsmash and try to get his *** off stage. edge guarding falcon is da bess. i like FD for the MU and obviously DL, all of the other maps are pretty much falcon's favor.

 

[Vudujin]

Thank ye kindly

 

[Winston]

di down and away on his dthrows. ****ing upthrow CG his *** at lower mid percents, end it with a upsmash or dsmash and try to get his *** off stage. edge guarding falcon is da bess. i like FD for the MU and obviously DL, all of the other maps are pretty much falcon's favor.

You think Yoshi's is in Falcon's favor?

 

[Wenbobular]

FD and Dreamland both kinda suck vs Falcon if he can edgeguard you ... he has infinite room to run on those stages ~_~

 

[Vudujin]

I played a kid named SlayerTokey in MI who was UNGODLY on FoD and it totally threw me off, and he was a beast. Falcon's always a thorn in Luigi's side.

I always thought Falcon was terrible there, but this guy made the exception.

As far as Yoshi's is concerned I think it's in CF's favor; realistically speaking, his knee will kill you off the side before your anything.

 

[Thoraxe]

I played a kid named SlayerTokey in MI who was UNGODLY on FoD and it totally threw me off, and he was a beast. Falcon's always a thorn in Luigi's side.

I always thought Falcon was terrible there, but this guy made the exception.

As far as Yoshi's is concerned I think it's in CF's favor; realistically speaking, his knee will kill you off the side before your anything.

precisely, it doesn't matter how well you can control what little space there is if his knee is killing you at 70 percent. And yeah, i used to love FoD against Falcon, but as soon as the falcon main i play with stopped *****ing about moving platforms, he realized it doesn't really hinder his defensive game... i loathe a defensive falcon in this MU.

 

[Winston]

precisely, it doesn't matter how well you can control what little space there is if his knee is killing you at 70 percent.

Disagree 100%. Falcon also dies considerably earlier since he's always closer to the edge on a small stage than he is on a big stage. On big stages he doesn't even get sent offstage by your combo finisher if you're in the middle of the stage until past 100.

He doesn't have platforms on FD, but I think his combos/pseudocombos are better there. Plus, there's just sooo much room for him. FD is not all upside for Luigi. If they DI, sometimes the platforms are actually beneficial for Luigi's combos since they would be able to jump out on FD, but they are forced to tech on easily reachable platforms on Yoshi's.

I'm not confident enough to say that Yoshi's is definitely the best stage in the matchup, but I think it's far from the worst.

I don't know where to place FoD.

 

[Thoraxe]

Disagree 100%. Falcon also dies considerably earlier since he's always closer to the edge on a small stage than he is on a big stage. On big stages he doesn't even get sent offstage by your combo finisher if you're in the middle of the stage until past 100.


I don't know where to place FoD.

captain falcon's love the sides on yoshi's story, always wall jumping with bairs and uairs to keep you off. They keep him alive much longer than luigi, also making edge guarding falcon a bit more tricky... and randal likes falcon more than luigi for lucky recoveries. i just think the quick deaths dealt out by falcon on YS outweigh the benefits of stage control by luigi. its like a 60 40 for falcon at YS imo where as FD is close to a 50 50. FoD on the other hand is rather tricky, in theory it should be better for weegy than falcon, but its too close to call, maybe even a 50 50 if played right? I LOVE FoD against the spacies for some reason, so much combos

 

[Wenbobular]

YS sides only help Falcon if you're bad at edgeguarding ... he gets to walljump -> airdodge at best, which still gets beat by shorthop aerial, which is what you're doing to edgeguard anyways ...

Competent Falcons will just crush your recovery anyways, so dying at lower % gets less relevant the more the Falcon is willing to go offstage and knee you

Being able to ledgedash well also turns Yoshi's into a really good stage to keep up pressure

Comes down to preference really ... if they're playing super aggro Yoshi's might not be what you want but it's definitely not just the worst stage ever vs Falcon

 

[Winston]

Luigi can freaking ledgehop aerial regrab. What more do you want? just use ledge invincibility to edgeguard him, his walljumping really isn't that important

and I'm not countering your argument with stage control is more important than survivability... I'm saying that Falcon's survivability is greatly decreased as well by Yoshi's, not just Luigi's.

 

[Vudujin]

Yoshi's sucks cause, if you get hit with ONE of aerials and you're above 50% you're going to die; cause the next move is going to be a very brutal stock-ending knee.

 

[Winston]

Whatever, you guys can keep picking Falcon players' favorite stages, and I can keep counterpicking Luigi players with Falcon I guess

 

[Thoraxe]

and I'm not countering your argument with stage control is more important than survivability... I'm saying that Falcon's survivability is greatly decreased as well by Yoshi's, not just Luigi's.

that's cool and all, but honestly, who do you think is hurt more by a smaller stage, the traction-less floaty or the heavy knee machine? hint: its pretty obvious.
No one ever said YS was the worst map for the MU, in fact, its probably 3rd or 4th best of the neutral stages. I just think other stages provide better advantages to luigi. lol i think battlefield is the worse stage for the falcon mu, no walls, small sides, etc.

 

[Wenbobular]

The floaty with terrible aerial mobility or the one of the most mobile characters in the game you mean?

If you're just getting kneed a bunch you're getting whooped regardless of what stage you're on, Falcon doesn't really have reliable knee setups at kill % and the early setups for double knee usually just flat out kill you regardless of stage

 

[Thoraxe]

The floaty with terrible aerial mobility or the one of the most mobile characters in the game you mean?

The mobile one the mobile one!!1 stage selection is all personal preference, so i'm sorry if i offended your choice of stage, YS is my second favorite stage, right behind icicle mountain, i just don't find it sensible for luigi in this MU. what do you guys ban against C falcon anyways? i ban battlefield and hope he isn't cheesy enough to take me to RC.

 

[Vudujin]

I think DL and FD are the best for Luigi. DL's got nice knee-forgiving walls, room for recovery offstage, breathing room onstage, perfectly spaced platforms for teching d-throw at high %'s and combos when on the offensive, and a techable ledge for recovering. FD has the same pros with the exclusion of the platforms. It's usually just a battle of the 0 to death combos, which I don't mind. You just really need to avoid getting grabbed on that stage.

 

[CRODD]

I feel like the controller will burst into flames if you can press it 14 times in a second xD. By chance do you have a video of someone doing the full down b?

 

[Vudujin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcrbxzfiayg 5:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3TD0oKaPqQ 2:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNWF5hFXsng 6:45

There's a few examples. I think for the most part I get maximum height unless I forget to charge the darn thing.

 

[CRODD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcrbxzfiayg 5:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3TD0oKaPqQ 2:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNWF5hFXsng 6:45

There's a few examples. I think for the most part I get maximum height unless I forget to charge the darn thing.

Very nice thanks for the help.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

That's crazy, I must really suck at button mashing or something, I can only maintain height for a split second >_<

 

[pingding]

I would think BF would be really bad vs. Fox, you're already limited *** recovery now has to deal with the weird lip and ledges of battlefield. Plus if you're sideBing as you recover to get into position to upB the ledge, you have to be INCREDIBLY precise not to get underneath the stage or you're pretty much dead regardless of what % you're at.

Personally I would stay away from it, but I don't main Luigi so wtf do I know?

i personally like bf because i can maneuver very easily on it and i like all the small platformed levels.