Bamesy
Smash Ace
DD Garbs are so good
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Guide The Official Luigi Matchup Database! - Currently discussing: Various
- Thread starter Smash G 0 D
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Rollz
Smash Apprentice
I'm trying to get some help with peach too, but I don't wanna jump the gun because there could be more Falcon advice.
I mean have we covered the general match-up, or is there still more?
I mean have we covered the general match-up, or is there still more?
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
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Perfect ledgedash apparently surprised every Peach in existence who is floating 1/3 the way into the stage thinking they're out of UpSmash range
I don't know anything about Peach
I don't know anything about Peach
Bamesy
Smash Ace
I don't really know what to say about it, but I have an easy time against Peaches with both Mario bros for some reason. Be like an insect and get inside her in and out, all the way in and all the way out.
That sounds bad, but for realz.
Speed is something you have, Peach don't. Stay grounded or on platforms, don't commit to aerials out of nowhere, she'll get ya!
That sounds bad, but for realz.
Speed is something you have, Peach don't. Stay grounded or on platforms, don't commit to aerials out of nowhere, she'll get ya!
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
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More like Sheik has no lag on any of her aerials + needle camping + invincible edgeguarding
Tilts are the least of your problems
Tilts are the least of your problems
thumbs up
10 chars
StretchNutz
Smash Journeyman
Yeah. I used to think Marth was harder than Sheik but then I learned to wavedash into shield and spot dodge the grab. Insta-****. Sheik is such a pain though.
StretchNutz
Smash Journeyman
WTF am I supposed to do against Peach? I see her sitting there half a stage away and I know that no matter what I do she's going to crouch cancel it into a downsmash. Run away and throw fireballs? SH- double aerials? what's a ***** to do?
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
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Haha those vids were pretty sweet ... 0 -> 71 Dsmash 
At the moment the biggest thing you're lacking is tech skill ... it's hard to make good spacing decisions with Luigi without good tech skill (mainly wavedash length) because wavedash length is one of his biggest assets in screwing up people's spacing perceptions and one of the biggest reasons people without experience get ***** sometimes (the other reason being terrible DI against Luigi's weird as **** combos)
Winston gets Peaches who float halfway across Yoshi's with full length ledgedash upsmashes for example
Practice more and never jump up at Peach when she's waiting at a platform
if you're going to go at a Peach from below, do it from way off to the side so you don't get blenderized
Also don't try to CC unless you have the super read
*Edit*
There are a couple more fairly obvious decision making mistakes that you made I'll post them if you want me to / I watch the vid again because I don't remember right now
At the moment the biggest thing you're lacking is tech skill ... it's hard to make good spacing decisions with Luigi without good tech skill (mainly wavedash length) because wavedash length is one of his biggest assets in screwing up people's spacing perceptions and one of the biggest reasons people without experience get ***** sometimes (the other reason being terrible DI against Luigi's weird as **** combos)
Winston gets Peaches who float halfway across Yoshi's with full length ledgedash upsmashes for example
Practice more and never jump up at Peach when she's waiting at a platform
if you're going to go at a Peach from below, do it from way off to the side so you don't get blenderizedAlso don't try to CC unless you have the super read
*Edit*
There are a couple more fairly obvious decision making mistakes that you made I'll post them if you want me to / I watch the vid again because I don't remember right now
Let's talk about peach.
Peach is a rough matchup because it is really hard to hit her without trading and there aren't any great setups. Grab down throw shenanigans can work if your fast enough. I think you can get a free fair sometimes if they DI incorrectly. But again you gotta be fast or you are going to eat a nair. You have to play pretty defensive against her. You also need decent spacing. WD ftilt only if you are out of range. Peach can't kill you very easily so make sure to DI everything right so you have space to recover. Practice sweet spotting so you don't die to dsmah edge guards.
Sheilding her dash attack is a free shoryuken. Generally up smashing has good priority against her aerials but don't spam it.
Peach is a rough matchup because it is really hard to hit her without trading and there aren't any great setups. Grab down throw shenanigans can work if your fast enough. I think you can get a free fair sometimes if they DI incorrectly. But again you gotta be fast or you are going to eat a nair. You have to play pretty defensive against her. You also need decent spacing. WD ftilt only if you are out of range. Peach can't kill you very easily so make sure to DI everything right so you have space to recover. Practice sweet spotting so you don't die to dsmah edge guards.
Sheilding her dash attack is a free shoryuken. Generally up smashing has good priority against her aerials but don't spam it.
StretchNutz
Smash Journeyman
after revisiting ka master vs. MacD and Sastopher, I realize that I pretty much need to work on my spacing with SH aerials and be more patient with my approach.
My tech skill is pretty much spot-on in these matches, insofar as I did exactly what I meant to do, it just ended up not working for the most part cause a.) I don't know how to fight Peach and b.) Kyle is mad good yo.
also: I can't ledgedash. at all. I die every time. Tips? tricks?
My tech skill is pretty much spot-on in these matches, insofar as I did exactly what I meant to do, it just ended up not working for the most part cause a.) I don't know how to fight Peach and b.) Kyle is mad good yo.
also: I can't ledgedash. at all. I die every time. Tips? tricks?
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
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<_<
When I say you're lacking tech skill I mean I don't think you're up to par with the technical standard for tournament Luigi play - I see you frequently not even slide off a Dreamland platform when you're wavedashing and Luigi's max wavedash length is probably between 2-3 times that ... Luigi is just another crappy low tier if you can't abuse his wavedash (probably worse than your average low tier because he has a terrible aerial / dashdance game without good wavedashes)
If you managed to play your best in tournament, that's great and it'll be a good base to build on, as long as you recognize that you still have a lot to work on in the tech skill department
My experience with ledgedashing as Luigi is that the timing is just like a wavedash - as soon as you hit down do your standard wavedash going as horizontally as possible - you want to start your jump ideally the frame you let go (or something very close to that)
You have to delay a bit because Luigi's vertical momentum isn't exactly da bess, but that's kinda a good thing because it syncs with your standard wavedash timing so you don't really have to deal with significantly different ledgedash and wavedash timings (unlike Falco where his ledgedash is fast but his wavedash is molasses)
When I say you're lacking tech skill I mean I don't think you're up to par with the technical standard for tournament Luigi play - I see you frequently not even slide off a Dreamland platform when you're wavedashing and Luigi's max wavedash length is probably between 2-3 times that ... Luigi is just another crappy low tier if you can't abuse his wavedash (probably worse than your average low tier because he has a terrible aerial / dashdance game without good wavedashes)
If you managed to play your best in tournament, that's great and it'll be a good base to build on, as long as you recognize that you still have a lot to work on in the tech skill department
My experience with ledgedashing as Luigi is that the timing is just like a wavedash - as soon as you hit down do your standard wavedash going as horizontally as possible - you want to start your jump ideally the frame you let go (or something very close to that)
You have to delay a bit because Luigi's vertical momentum isn't exactly da bess, but that's kinda a good thing because it syncs with your standard wavedash timing so you don't really have to deal with significantly different ledgedash and wavedash timings (unlike Falco where his ledgedash is fast but his wavedash is molasses)
StretchNutz
Smash Journeyman
well I've only been playing this gay *** game for 4 months cumulative with a 2 month hiatus in the middle. I'm able to do any length wavedash and vary the distances accordingly but I lack the experience to know when to go where and etc.
For the ledgedash is it easier to drop off the ledge using back instead of down?
and pakman: to get the shoryuken after the dash attack do I need to step in? Or just do it right out of shield?
For the ledgedash is it easier to drop off the ledge using back instead of down?
and pakman: to get the shoryuken after the dash attack do I need to step in? Or just do it right out of shield?
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
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If you can do any length wavedash on command you should be aiming for max length wavedashes almost every time xD
See Peach floating one full wavedash away, thinking she's safe? Perfect wavedash USmash and she doesn't really have many options to get away from it unless she calls it perfectly or airdodges / trades because it's not like Peach has anything to beat your USmash while she's above you
I just didn't see any evidence that you could do better wavedashes is all ;D
It depends on what you're comfortable with - personally I use down because if I hit back I tend to drift back a little bit or do the weird backward jump which is kinda awkward for ledgedashing ... just go into practice mode, choose FD, move the start select thing to reset and then just keep ledgedashing -> wavedash back -> repeat, resetting if you die to save time
If you want to practice ledgedashing to the left, pick Hyrule Temple and ledgedash from that ledge in the middle
Up-b out of shield is just inputting up-b while in shield ... Peach gives you a massive timing window if you shield her dash attack
Same applies for ... most dash attacks really (Sheik/Marth being the other characters I can think of who uses dash attack in neutral position)
For most other attacks you can still do it (Up-b out of shield is I think your fastest option and is probably similar to Samus except with the ****tiest hitbox ever) but you need to call it harder and they have to be spaced deep into your shield (the nature of dash attack puts them pretty deep into your shield due to the lunge so you can get it basically 100% of the time if you time it right)
*Edit*
Winston wanted to say something about Peach's Fair being super **** or something
Even though I still think Fair has enough startup that they would still have to call your wavedash a bit to not trade with an Upsmash ... but I don't play Luigi
I guess I should put this disclaimer here that I don't play Luigi so my views on neutral game in matchups that aren't Luigi vs fastfallers are probably not entirely accurate
But these boards are pretty dead so I'm going to flaunt my ****ty opinion until someone makes a good post <_<
See Peach floating one full wavedash away, thinking she's safe? Perfect wavedash USmash and she doesn't really have many options to get away from it unless she calls it perfectly or airdodges / trades because it's not like Peach has anything to beat your USmash while she's above you
I just didn't see any evidence that you could do better wavedashes is all ;D
It depends on what you're comfortable with - personally I use down because if I hit back I tend to drift back a little bit or do the weird backward jump which is kinda awkward for ledgedashing ... just go into practice mode, choose FD, move the start select thing to reset and then just keep ledgedashing -> wavedash back -> repeat, resetting if you die to save time
If you want to practice ledgedashing to the left, pick Hyrule Temple and ledgedash from that ledge in the middle
Up-b out of shield is just inputting up-b while in shield ... Peach gives you a massive timing window if you shield her dash attack
Same applies for ... most dash attacks really (Sheik/Marth being the other characters I can think of who uses dash attack in neutral position)
For most other attacks you can still do it (Up-b out of shield is I think your fastest option and is probably similar to Samus except with the ****tiest hitbox ever) but you need to call it harder and they have to be spaced deep into your shield (the nature of dash attack puts them pretty deep into your shield due to the lunge so you can get it basically 100% of the time if you time it right)
*Edit*
Winston wanted to say something about Peach's Fair being super **** or something
Even though I still think Fair has enough startup that they would still have to call your wavedash a bit to not trade with an Upsmash ... but I don't play Luigi
I guess I should put this disclaimer here that I don't play Luigi so my views on neutral game in matchups that aren't Luigi vs fastfallers are probably not entirely accurate
But these boards are pretty dead so I'm going to flaunt my ****ty opinion until someone makes a good post <_<
Winston
Smash Master
General thoughts on Peach:
-Attack her from the air for the most part if she's grounded and defensive. Spaced sh aerials avoid her CC dsmash. Reserve wd dsmash/usmashes for when you have the read that she wants to dash or wd back, or on reaction to her turnip pulls. Ftilt is really weak and doesn't break CC for forever, so don't do this unless you can keep your maximal spacing (i.e. usually dont approach with a wd ftilt, but do it when you are already standing at the max spacing).
-She can counter your wd sh aerial approaches with dash attack, but that's rather risky for her. Predict them and shield them, or WD back to avoid and punish. Like Pakman said, you really want to shield these when she's ~70 or above so you can get that shoryuken oos ko.
-When she's floating she'll often be expecting a direct WD approach, so unless you have reason to believe otherwise, don't oblige. Try to get under her with a utilt/usmash when you predict that she'll jump, not after she's already floating.
-If you can get her to shield that's usually to your advantage. You can space aerials on her shield and she can't do anything but try to reset the situation, and you can mix in tomahawks (empty shorthop grabs) or weird wavelands or whatever to turn that into your advantage.
-Out of grab, dthrow -> aerial will combo if they don't DI it properly (almost nobody DIs it correctly all of the time.) After the aerial you usually wont get another combo hit unless their DI is garbage, but even so, you can waveland and pressure them still. At mid percents you could do fthrow -> ftilt as a cute mixup if they are starting to DI your dthrow.
Thoughts about the neutral game/positioning:
1). Try to stay within max WD range at all times.
Max WD range is really far, so you can retreat to the edge of this if you want breathing room and be safe from an immediate attack from peach, but basically the point of this is to punish her for picking turnips whenever possible. Your mobility advantage is reduced greatly if peach is holding a turnip.
2). Try to always allow yourself avenues of escape if you get pressured by Peach.
This usually happens if she's able to approach with a turnip -> fair. If you can wd out of shield after the turnip and before the fair hits that's usually better than letting the fair hit your shield.
When you end up cornered, the platforms can sometimes offer ways of getting around Peach and back into center stage. Dont do it super obviously because good Peaches will predict this and try to stuff it with a fh nair. This is a pretty big commit though, and Peach is slow horizontally and vertically, so you can mix it up with wavelanding on place on the platforms or just weird tricky movement overall. When you're cornered, you don't have to panic since she's slow, you can set up tricks or whatever and try to find a way out.
Oh, and Down B is a godsend for getting out of bad situations as long as you don't overuse it. But you probably already knew that.
For this reason I think Dreamland is a great stage for Luigi in the matchup. FD and stadium are good too. Small stages are to Peach's advantage imo.
-Attack her from the air for the most part if she's grounded and defensive. Spaced sh aerials avoid her CC dsmash. Reserve wd dsmash/usmashes for when you have the read that she wants to dash or wd back, or on reaction to her turnip pulls. Ftilt is really weak and doesn't break CC for forever, so don't do this unless you can keep your maximal spacing (i.e. usually dont approach with a wd ftilt, but do it when you are already standing at the max spacing).
-She can counter your wd sh aerial approaches with dash attack, but that's rather risky for her. Predict them and shield them, or WD back to avoid and punish. Like Pakman said, you really want to shield these when she's ~70 or above so you can get that shoryuken oos ko.
-When she's floating she'll often be expecting a direct WD approach, so unless you have reason to believe otherwise, don't oblige. Try to get under her with a utilt/usmash when you predict that she'll jump, not after she's already floating.
-If you can get her to shield that's usually to your advantage. You can space aerials on her shield and she can't do anything but try to reset the situation, and you can mix in tomahawks (empty shorthop grabs) or weird wavelands or whatever to turn that into your advantage.
-Out of grab, dthrow -> aerial will combo if they don't DI it properly (almost nobody DIs it correctly all of the time.) After the aerial you usually wont get another combo hit unless their DI is garbage, but even so, you can waveland and pressure them still. At mid percents you could do fthrow -> ftilt as a cute mixup if they are starting to DI your dthrow.
Thoughts about the neutral game/positioning:
1). Try to stay within max WD range at all times.
Max WD range is really far, so you can retreat to the edge of this if you want breathing room and be safe from an immediate attack from peach, but basically the point of this is to punish her for picking turnips whenever possible. Your mobility advantage is reduced greatly if peach is holding a turnip.
2). Try to always allow yourself avenues of escape if you get pressured by Peach.
This usually happens if she's able to approach with a turnip -> fair. If you can wd out of shield after the turnip and before the fair hits that's usually better than letting the fair hit your shield.
When you end up cornered, the platforms can sometimes offer ways of getting around Peach and back into center stage. Dont do it super obviously because good Peaches will predict this and try to stuff it with a fh nair. This is a pretty big commit though, and Peach is slow horizontally and vertically, so you can mix it up with wavelanding on place on the platforms or just weird tricky movement overall. When you're cornered, you don't have to panic since she's slow, you can set up tricks or whatever and try to find a way out.
Oh, and Down B is a godsend for getting out of bad situations as long as you don't overuse it. But you probably already knew that.
For this reason I think Dreamland is a great stage for Luigi in the matchup. FD and stadium are good too. Small stages are to Peach's advantage imo.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
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Once you have ledgedashing down, you also have the ledge as a place to retreat to if you need to reset to neutral because every character needs to respect ledgedash invincibility
Winston
Smash Master
Yeah, that's true, but literally no Luigi player is currently good enough at that to make actively retreating to the edge a good thing, from what I've seen. It's something everyone needs to work on.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Nicknyte likes to spam tornado onstage, I noticed.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
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Tornado sucks, but people suck more at reacting to it so it works (against some / most? people)
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Man. How is Luigi supposed to beat Mario, a "better" character? WD -> WD in place to bait f-smashes? IDK.
Winston
Smash Master
Just clank it with tornado
/not sure if that actually works
/not sure if that actually works
StretchNutz
Smash Journeyman
Tornado will always clank the sourspot (I think) but will only clank the sweetspot if it's mad stale yo. Too lazy too look up damage range for mario's fsmash.
Winston
Smash Master
Played like 2 games of Luigi yesterday.
I wish Fox wasn't so short
I wish Fox wasn't so short
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
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Me vs Vist (Luigi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDbpLvzDG28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VynidlhG0hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecn5TwZ2Rbk
For anyone that cares haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDbpLvzDG28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VynidlhG0hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecn5TwZ2Rbk
For anyone that cares haha
Vist
Smash Champion
oh snap that was recorded lol
i just remember it being a pretty sloppy set for both of us
i just remember it being a pretty sloppy set for both of us
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
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- 5,744
Yeah seriously
=_= the badness
=_= the badness
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Who even plays Mario?
You guys, let's talk about the Peach matchup. Good for Luigi? Evensies? I'm curious because I may or may not have Luigi talent!
You guys, let's talk about the Peach matchup. Good for Luigi? Evensies? I'm curious because I may or may not have Luigi talent!
Winston
Smash Master
I made a big post on Peach not too long ago >.>
Oddly enough the only Peach I've played who's made me feel the matchup is disadvantaged for Luigi is Wife. Armada ***** me but that felt like it was because it was Armada, not the matchup.
I think it's close to even.
Oddly enough the only Peach I've played who's made me feel the matchup is disadvantaged for Luigi is Wife. Armada ***** me but that felt like it was because it was Armada, not the matchup.
I think it's close to even.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Why did Wife make you feel that way?
Winston
Smash Master
I guess because he was able to edgeguard and pressure me with turnips more effectively than the others, and was better at spacing fairs to beat approaches.
I think those things can be worked around as Luigi, but I'm not sure from experience.
I think those things can be worked around as Luigi, but I'm not sure from experience.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
What's Luigi's best tool for getting around d-smashes? SH dair?
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
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What is there to get around ... ?
Dsmash is only a problem if you run into it ... just ... don't run into it
<_<
Dsmash is only a problem if you run into it ... just ... don't run into it
<_<
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
It's not even a problem as ICs. The only reason why it's good is because she has good setups into it.
I just like knowing what beats what.
I just like knowing what beats what.
Eddy 007
Smash Apprentice
Random thoughts:
I think F-tlt clanks with her d-smash. I always try to catch turnips to avoid getting camping with her projectiles.
Against falcon d-throw i DI away but i little down of the horizontal line (4 o'clock or 8o'clock) AND mash u-air (with the c-stick).
I think F-tlt clanks with her d-smash. I always try to catch turnips to avoid getting camping with her projectiles.
Against falcon d-throw i DI away but i little down of the horizontal line (4 o'clock or 8o'clock) AND mash u-air (with the c-stick).
Winston
Smash Master
^ Yeah that's really important vs. Falcon. Dthrow doesn't actually combo Luigi with down + away DI.
Uair is the best thing at low percents. At higher percents if he's trying to knee you it might not be as good, I think untumble + airdodge is the best if you can learn that. If not, try to judge if you can jump out and not get hit by it. Jumping into the knee is the worst though ><
Uair is the best thing at low percents. At higher percents if he's trying to knee you it might not be as good, I think untumble + airdodge is the best if you can learn that. If not, try to judge if you can jump out and not get hit by it. Jumping into the knee is the worst though ><
Thoraxe
Smash Apprentice
I feel like marth, Falco, and sheik haven't been adequately discussed in this thread, and these are three of my biggest problems with luigi. I say we start with the hardest, Sheik. The only decent advice i have for this match up is rely on platforms to properly waveland away and keep spacing WD Ftilts for room to retreat. I've i'm feeling bold, i'll drop from platform, thorw a fire ball or two, waveland and see what how she's reacting to my balls in her face, if shield, WD G to awesome weegy Dmash combos, if attack canceling or PS, or SH, i'll approach with a Ftilt, and stick on her if you get you tumbling, as soon as you get her off stage, she's as good as dead, Bair the **** out of her, it can out reach that Fair of hers, grab ledge, force stage recovery, punish with either Bthrow or SHROYUKEN, death.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
Winston
Smash Master
I think fireballs are pretty terrible and don't force an exploitable response from the opponent >__>
vs. Sheik:
Fight grounded sheik by spacing with a combination of spaced ftilt, wd approach sh bairs, empty sh to wavelands, empty sh to attack, and platform wavelands, if they're patient and actually bait things correctly. If they're a mediocre sheik who's staying grounded you can probably just approach with attacks and **** them when they aren't prepared for your CC dsmashes.
If they're an aerial sheik then you can do something like space sh approaching wd bair at the spot where they land. (Fair beats luigi's bair straight up, but bair has longer range still, so if you aim it at the spot she lands she's at least threatened and has to shield or something.) You also have to take advantage of the (short) window of time when they are jumping to force them to do something other than sh ac aerial spam. If you predict her jump you can try to hit her as she's jumping or get under and pressure with sh uairs or something.
If she's at KO percent and you are not you can space your fair to trade with hers, but otherwise this isn't a good idea.
Basically I think direct approaches are terrible in this matchup except when you've used your weird crap to force her to stop baiting your linear approaches, and then you can mix them in. Or when you have a straight up read.
vs Falco:
I have no clue.
vs Marth: If they DD a lot then play it like Falcon. If they space aerials a lot, fake approaches and approach with shield to condition them to continue spamming aerials, then time an attack to beat their aerial, either dsmash or upward angled ftilt, depending on how they are doing the aerial. Marth's aerials actually have a lot more vulnerable time than other characters'. Dtilt is really good vs. Luigi, but it is punishable still. You can get in attack in during the lag if you predict the timing.
When he hits you with something, like an aerial or a dtilt, CC it or something and either dsmash (if there's enough time) or just get out of there so he can't grab you. Grab is the best thing he can get on you, since it leads to you being in the air and never getting down/getting ken comboed.
If they're trying to be maximally gay and dtilt, shield, grab, and CC a lot, then beats me. Just outplay them. Nobody plays this style properly though from what I've seen.
Luigi's combos on Marth off dthrow are pretty decent if Marth doesn't DI. If Marth starts DIing those, mix in fthrow combos.
Edgeguarding Marth is really, really easy if they suck at recovering, and kind of hard if they're good at it. If they're bad at it just use ledge invincibility and hit them as they do some obvious recovery attempt. If they're good at it then you kind of have to predict their recovery timing and edgehog at the right time. Or, you can try to space a sh dair around their up B hitbox and hit their sweetspot attempt, but I think this depends on how much they hug the stage/how they are curling their up B.
I'm not sure if lightshield edgehogging works; if it does then it'd be really good cause of shoryuken.
vs. Sheik:
Fight grounded sheik by spacing with a combination of spaced ftilt, wd approach sh bairs, empty sh to wavelands, empty sh to attack, and platform wavelands, if they're patient and actually bait things correctly. If they're a mediocre sheik who's staying grounded you can probably just approach with attacks and **** them when they aren't prepared for your CC dsmashes.
If they're an aerial sheik then you can do something like space sh approaching wd bair at the spot where they land. (Fair beats luigi's bair straight up, but bair has longer range still, so if you aim it at the spot she lands she's at least threatened and has to shield or something.) You also have to take advantage of the (short) window of time when they are jumping to force them to do something other than sh ac aerial spam. If you predict her jump you can try to hit her as she's jumping or get under and pressure with sh uairs or something.
If she's at KO percent and you are not you can space your fair to trade with hers, but otherwise this isn't a good idea.
Basically I think direct approaches are terrible in this matchup except when you've used your weird crap to force her to stop baiting your linear approaches, and then you can mix them in. Or when you have a straight up read.
vs Falco:
I have no clue.
vs Marth: If they DD a lot then play it like Falcon. If they space aerials a lot, fake approaches and approach with shield to condition them to continue spamming aerials, then time an attack to beat their aerial, either dsmash or upward angled ftilt, depending on how they are doing the aerial. Marth's aerials actually have a lot more vulnerable time than other characters'. Dtilt is really good vs. Luigi, but it is punishable still. You can get in attack in during the lag if you predict the timing.
When he hits you with something, like an aerial or a dtilt, CC it or something and either dsmash (if there's enough time) or just get out of there so he can't grab you. Grab is the best thing he can get on you, since it leads to you being in the air and never getting down/getting ken comboed.
If they're trying to be maximally gay and dtilt, shield, grab, and CC a lot, then beats me. Just outplay them. Nobody plays this style properly though from what I've seen.
Luigi's combos on Marth off dthrow are pretty decent if Marth doesn't DI. If Marth starts DIing those, mix in fthrow combos.
Edgeguarding Marth is really, really easy if they suck at recovering, and kind of hard if they're good at it. If they're bad at it just use ledge invincibility and hit them as they do some obvious recovery attempt. If they're good at it then you kind of have to predict their recovery timing and edgehog at the right time. Or, you can try to space a sh dair around their up B hitbox and hit their sweetspot attempt, but I think this depends on how much they hug the stage/how they are curling their up B.
I'm not sure if lightshield edgehogging works; if it does then it'd be really good cause of shoryuken.
Thoraxe
Smash Apprentice
@ Winston sound advice for both match ups, i find marth battles to be pretty straight forward, it ending up being a game of intensive WD spacing on both parts, now i wouldn't use fireballs on every character, but i believe weegy's fireball is way underrated, fireball Wave land approach works to open up there defense and has opened up some combos for me occasionally, depending on how you react to there reaction. and one of my favorite combos to pull is when my opponent is trying to approach stage from above, to quickly WD or WL on a platform (usually platform) jump up and throw two fireballs out to intercept there path (hopefully catching them off guard with the sudden and unorthodox approach), first stuns a moment, second stuns again, which places them exactly where i want them, i usually follow the two balls with a Dair or Fair depending on the situation.
anyyhoww, the point is just because it isn't the best projectile in the game, doesn't mean you can't occasionally utilize green ballz of fire in Weegy's game effectively. And i've never seen a game where someones PS EVERY projectile they face... especially a weegy game (unexpected).
anyyhoww, the point is just because it isn't the best projectile in the game, doesn't mean you can't occasionally utilize green ballz of fire in Weegy's game effectively. And i've never seen a game where someones PS EVERY projectile they face... especially a weegy game (unexpected).
Abate
Smash Journeyman
What should luigi do if he is above a marth? Well timed dair doesn't work, you can't trade with nair to recover and if you keeping airdodging the marth will eventually wait for it.