The Official Geno Thread

[RegalBuster]

Now really man, do you have to go off the deep end and say something like that? There is a much greater evidence to the contrary, but you still think that his fans will bail him out? They haven't bailed him out in so long, and he still has the same problems, so what's changed now?

why wouldn't Sakurai make him playable if people want him to be so bad, and also i'm not a man.

 

[Pieman0920]

why wouldn't Sakurai make him playable if people want him to be so bad, and also i'm not a man.

People have not wanted him as bad as you suspect, as is shown by his absence in all these new fangled Mario games with SE characters in them with direct recognition of SMRPG. Additionally, we all know the questionable quality of that poll, and that there's no real information as to where his real standings are, ma'am.

 

[Machspeed]

Read the first page of the thread. Geno's not 3rd party, not to mention Sakurai said if he was, he wouldn't count him as 3rd party.

Sonic wasn't on Sakurai's suggestion list, yet he was added to the roster. Why you ask? Multiple fan requests until he eventually took into consideration. I agree Geno is not close to a level of Sonic's hype, but then again remember, there are limited Geno fans. The reason there are limited Geno fans is because of the amount of games he's been in. Many people haven't even touched that RPG, nor heard of him. How many games has Sonic had in the 11 years since that games release? If Geno was included in more Mario games, I believe he would be alot more popular than he currently is, and his hype level is only for SE and Nintendo to blame.

Square-Enix and Nintendo haven't made another good Mario game since that RPG imo, just trash such as Basketball and sports games.

And once again I say, Cloud may have more fans, but Cloud teaming up with Pichu or another petite character for the good of others?
That's not even close to Cloud, he's a loner and he doesn't need help with his works, yet SSE usually has 2 characters. (from what we've seen)

 

[Cynan Machae]

Impending doom and the end of the world are things he normally deals with, even if it's not particularly a puppet. Heck, Bowser's goals basically take you to everything but the end, and since they all get sucked into Smithy's place anyways, it was inevitable.

Well, it's Geno who convinced Bowser to stay with the party.

Anyway, I can guess that Geno's fanbase among Smash players is quite big, I think. Cloud has fans, indeed. I like him quite a lot, too. But Geno would be a better addition in most aspects, game-wise.

Edit: yea, what Machspeed said for game-wise.

 

[Pieman0920]

Read the first page of the thread. Geno's not 3rd party, not to mention Sakurai said if he was, he wouldn't count him as 3rd party.

Contrary to what the opening post wants you to believe, Geno is fully a third party character, as demonstrated in the credits of M&L:SS. (Additionally, second and a half is a horrid term)

Sonic wasn't on Sakurai's suggestion list, yet he was added to the roster. Why you ask? Multiple fan requests until he eventually took into consideration. I agree Geno is not close to a level of Sonic's hype, but then again remember, there are limited Geno fans. The reason there are limited Geno fans is because of the amount of games he's been in. Many people haven't even touched that RPG, nor heard of him. How many games has Sonic had in the 11 years since that games release? If Geno was included in more Mario games, I believe he would be alot more popular than he currently is, and his hype level is only for SE and Nintendo to blame.

I actually am under the impression that as Sakurai said that Sonic got the most votes, that he probably didn't add them in because there were probably so many. And of course Geno could be more popular if he was shown around more, but that's a hypothetical alternate reality that we do not exist in. As the fact stands, Geno's only been in those limited number of games. (And to be quite frank, the only one that could possibly generate fans was SMRPG, which was a decade ago, and with no re-release)

Square-Enix and Nintendo haven't made another good Mario game since that RPG imo, just trash such as Basketball and sports games.

Actually, Itagaki Street is not a spots game, and is quite popular. Heck, I'm pretty sure you haven't played it, so there's no right to call it trash. As for the basketball game, did you actually play that enough to think it was trash?

And once again I say, Cloud may have more fans, but Cloud teaming up with Pichu or another petite character for the good of others?
That's not even close to Cloud, he's a loner and he doesn't need help with his works, yet SSE usually has 2 characters. (from what we've seen)

The fact that you think that staying in character is something that matters is beyond me. Additionally, Cloud always had a group. And if you think the mismatch is to freaky, then might I remind you that Snake also has to deal with the world of Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

If anything Mario was a secondary character. Mario, Peach, Bowser and Mallow helped Geno on his journey.

=|

Sure, they all had their fair share but Geno was effected the most in story wise.

 

[Machspeed]

Even if Geno was 3rd party, Sakurai said he wouldn't count him as taking up a 3rd party spot.

And yes, a sequel to the SMRPG would be nice, but unfortunately, thats not in the near future. It's Square-Enix and Nintendo's fault for basically putting Mallow and Geno to rest with no hope of return in sight.

I did not say a specific sports game, so no need to put words in my mouth. I am speaking about games such as Super Mario Strikers, Mario 3vs3 Hoops blah blah... (Yes I played the Basketball game, and I can say it: TRASH; Same thing with Super Mario Strikers)

You got me when it comes to Snake. But when it comes to staying it character, thats mainly what the fans want, nobody wants to see Cloud fighting for the forces of good collecting trophies. If you want a character in the game, you would like them to act as they did in the home series.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

*GLARES DAGGERS AT MACHSPEED.*

I liked Super Mario Strikers, son. Watch yo' self. Lol.

Anyway, I don't think Cloud will make it into the game for one simple fact:

HE HASN'T APPEARED ON A NINTENDO CONSOLE. AT ALL.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Machspeed]

If you count the 3 minute boss fight in Chain of Memories, yes he has been.

Spoiler

Yeah, his chances still suck.

Er Super Mario Strikers Charged I meant; Charged really didn't do much new and the camera work sucked.

 

[Cless]

I have played an Itadaki Street and it is kind of like Monopoly.

 

[Machspeed]

Ahh, I heard it was pretty good, I wanted to try it out.

Is it wi-fi compatible?

 

[Cless]

I haven't played the DS version. I played the PSP version, but my research tells me that it does indeed have wifi.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Why you people think that Yoko = Geno confrimed is beyond me. You all don't really belive that do you? Heck, she's listed under Kingdom Hearts, and if Square is participating, wouldn't that be the hint? Heck, why not Final Fantasy with Nobuo? I guess there's the outside chance that she could be in for SMBRPG for some reason, but if you do it like that, you also have to count in the other possibilities for every other character who has that same status. =/

(Though Nobuo isn't affiliated with Square anymore)

Who said that that it 100% guarenteed him? It just brings some things to the table because of the three Nintendo games Yoko has composed for, Geno has been in two of them and all three of them were Mario RPGs and directed by the same two people who directed Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. Also, regarding the people who have the same status, people already have caught one considering how two of the composers on their were connected to two of Sonic's biggest titles: the original and Sonic Adventure 2.

You really hate the idea that Geno has any chance of getting into this game, don't you? From the posts of yours that I've read, you seem to believe that anyone that believes he has a chance is beyond ******** and you downplay any points that anyone brings up by claiming that they actually provide proof against instead of for Geno.

Your behavior makes me raise an eyebrow because you're like an atheist who bursts into a church and starts yelling at the patrons simply because they're there. In any case, what injury would it cause to you if Geno DID make it into Brawl? Would you really burst into flames or would your insurance rates skyrocket? Suppose he ISNT. Will you rub it in Geno's fans faces? Will you go on a several month tirade proclaiming to these forums that you were right and the Geno fans were wrong?

The bottom line is that Geno doesn't have a 100% chance of getting in but his chances are decent (75-80% if you want me throw out a guess) provided what we know. We've also already established that because of this knowledge, he'll either be playable or he won't even show up at all. Case closed and no excuses. It's a pretty deep ultimatium but it's logically sound. With that conclusion, how are Geno fans as obnoxiously deluded as you say they are? Most of us know the situation and it's a conclusion, that their favorite character may not even make it into the game, that a lot of character supporters won't even admit to.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sword users are still the minority. By prejudicing them, it's suggested that they're all alike outside of the fact that they have sword...which very obviously isn't true. I'd rather have another sword user with new sword moves than a character with a gimped Zero Beam, a non-returning boomerang, a multi-hit Thunder, and adds to the already overwhelming number of hand-to-hand fighters.

Heck, if you want to talk like that any character automatically loses any true form of uniqueness because certain characteristics are rarely exclusive. Jigglypuff becomes a modified Kirby, Captain Falcon becomes a modified Samus, King Dedede becomes a modified Ice Climber, and Luigi might as well go jump off a cliff because, in this situation, he's royally screwed. Also, I think it's safe to say that Sakurai probably couldn't care less about affirmative action. (To those that don't know, affirmative action is hiring someone simply because they are a minority or you don't have "enough" on your workforce.)


Geno's "theme" wasn't requested; the Forest Maze theme was. And I don't think something being known to have been requested once, one of the songs we know were actually requested, is the same as most requested.

"Beware the Poison Mushrooms" is heavily associated with Geno though and is often referred to as "Geno's Woods." The guy that even requests it in Sakurai's journal even says it himself "it wouldn't make much sense to just add it into the game so why not included Geno too." What he does there is set an instant connection to the tune and the character much like how, despite not being Mario's "theme", the original Super Mario Bros theme is instantly connected to Mario.



Why would they wanna make more money when they could make less? Interesting question...

I didn't read the original comment regarding this but I'm going to guess that you're saying that Cloud's addition would be a smarter addition then Geno. While Square Enix would easily benefit more, Nintendo would easily have to pay out the nose for him. Keep in mind that the third party characters added so far have connections to high influenceing people with Nintendo and I can't draw any lines of connection between Cloud and anyone of true importance there.



The number of entries does not equal the number of requests; it's just what they wanted to show us. They could've gotten tens of thousands of letters and the 290 they showed us aren't necessarily representative of any actual numbers.

And they showed us the ones they showed us because those particular 290 entries amused/interested them. I've used this analogy before: the poll ran for 29 days and it is estimated that they recieve probably 10,000 entries in all because it was open to the world. Roughly, that would have made 333 entires a day. During each of those days, they chose 10 to post on the site. Geno appeared in 5 and it should also be noted that the last three were very close to each other (entries 247, 268, and 276). Now, we all know that Geno is a relatively obscure character so what are the chances that not only was he in 5 of the 290 entires choosen out of 10,000 (5/10,000 or .00005% actually) but how he appeared 3 times in the span of 4 days (3/1332 or about .0022% actually) unless the entires truely reflected what Sakurai and his staff were interested in? So what we have here is believing something that's logically sound (Sakurai having interest in Geno) or something that's not (Geno only appeared due to an outstanding statistical anomally). To add to this, in the Deoxyes and Saki update, Sakurai comes right out and says that both characters were extremelly popular and yet neither of them appeared even once in the journal.

And not being mentioned in any interviews doesn't mean a whole lot; a lot of these talks are obviously done in private.

So Sakurai coming out and expressing interest in certain characters to the press doesn't mean a lot? Huh...

Sora's solely owned by Disney.

Do you really want to drag Disney into this game? Enough said...


Something that hasn't been tried? Like what? Cloud could've been more requested; we really don't know.

As I've already pointed out, that's hardly a factor in this situation.

 

[DarkVision]

As I've already pointed out, that's hardly a factor in this situation.

Nice,

...I only used the words "Geno's theme" to what he replied to because I couldn't remember the real name though...and cause of the connection to Geno

I specifically put it in quotes...

 

[Gordie123]

This whole Cloud argument is pissing me off.....Why would Nintendo add a character into a flagship game that symbolizes the terrible relationship they have had with Square the last 10 years........thats just dumb...real dumb.

Nintendo Rep::: "Hey remember that game you guys were going to make for Nintendo 64 but totally ditched us to make on the Playstation because you did not want to use cartridges? And afterwards we said in interviews we would never work with your company ever again because of it? Ya can we have the main character from that game appear in brawl?

.....

Where as Geno and Mario RPG represent a milestone in the history of Nintendo and the bond the 2 companies used to have.....

not to mention the 2 min. Cameo appearance cloud had on a hand held system is the only appearance on a Nintendo console....give me a break people

 

[Shuma]

"If anything Mario was a secondary character. Mario, Peach, Bowser and Mallow helped Geno on his journey."

I'm Pro geno, but this... is incredibly stupid and it's just a "fact" created by the biased fans and is in no way true. The game is still centered and based around Mario, Geno helped Mario and Bowser to get rid of smithy while following his own mission, he helped them, not the other way around.

And if he helped them was because he needed help to get rid of Smithy. Mario is still the protagonis, along with Bowser, Geno and Mallow who are sidekicks.

 

[Pieman0920]

^Don't forget Peach...I guess.

Who said that that it 100% guarenteed him? It just brings some things to the table because of the three Nintendo games Yoko has composed for, Geno has been in two of them and all three of them were Mario RPGs and directed by the same two people who directed Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. Also, regarding the people who have the same status, people already have caught one considering how two of the composers on their were connected to two of Sonic's biggest titles: the original and Sonic Adventure 2.

The actual connection between those composers and the actual Sonic music has actually yet to be truly confirmed, seeing as we don't have any Sonic music with their credits on them... Furthermore, we're constantly getting new musicians that Sakurai didn't mention in the begining. But still, it's true that all three of those games were Mario RPGs, but that means two of them were in house, and the odds are that she is taking the music from those, due to there being no legal issues at all. Heck, there's the chance she composing something new like Nobuo, or is just one of the people helping out, and not directly contributing anything from the past. (And since we are not dealing with the director of SMRPG, that's a moot point). Last, Itadaki Street DS used SMRPG music without Geno at all, which is another option for Brawl. (Remember the X update?)

You really hate the idea that Geno has any chance of getting into this game, don't you? From the posts of yours that I've read, you seem to believe that anyone that believes he has a chance is beyond ******** and you downplay any points that anyone brings up by claiming that they actually provide proof against instead of for Geno.

When did I say I ever hated Geno. Outside of Ridley, he's my favorite Nintendo character not yet confirmed. It is obvious to me though that he's not getting in. And if you guys find proof that is for instead of against Geno, then I'll congradulate you, since I want him in, but if you just post inconclusive things like this music debate, then I'll speak up. =/

Your behavior makes me raise an eyebrow because you're like an atheist who bursts into a church and starts yelling at the patrons simply because they're there. In any case, what injury would it cause to you if Geno DID make it into Brawl? Would you really burst into flames or would your insurance rates skyrocket? Suppose he ISNT. Will you rub it in Geno's fans faces? Will you go on a several month tirade proclaiming to these forums that you were right and the Geno fans were wrong?

I would be happy if he made it in. If he didn't though, I guess wouldn't rub it in your faces per say, but I would watch your reaction with a smirk, since I do like being right. I'll admit that much. But really, I don't need to go on a tirade. It's just to clear to me.

The bottom line is that Geno doesn't have a 100% chance of getting in but his chances are decent (75-80% if you want me throw out a guess) provided what we know. We've also already established that because of this knowledge, he'll either be playable or he won't even show up at all. Case closed and no excuses. It's a pretty deep ultimatium but it's logically sound. With that conclusion, how are Geno fans as obnoxiously deluded as you say they are? Most of us know the situation and it's a conclusion, that their favorite character may not even make it into the game, that a lot of character supporters won't even admit to.

No character has a 100% chance, that's for sure, but to even say 75 or 80 is really just dumb man. There are way to many things holding him back, and you think speculated fan numbers will push him through, when it's never done that in the past? In any case, yes he's a all or nothing type of character...unless SE does get a real one of their icons in, in which case, I'd say he has a chance as a sticker or trophy. In any case, it's not the fact that you don't understand that there's little chance of anything in between for him, but rather that you think he has precidence over so many other characters, that his legal rights can just be cleared up, or that any company really cares about him. Despite all that, you seem ignorant because you say 75% chance with the only proof being that some people asked Sakurai for him to be in, and also you think he'd have a good moveset. =/

 

[RegalBuster]

"It's obvious to me Geno's not getting in."

That's pretty stupid so many people want him in he is the most wanted character that hasn't been confirmed for Brawl.

 

[Pieman0920]

Do you pay attention to why I say what I say, ma'am? <_<

 

[RegalBuster]

Well it's hard to when you make such long posts.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well there's a lot of reasons I have to go over. Thus, with the high number valid of reasons against him, in contrast to some questionable reasons for him, I think Geno doesn't stand a chance. >_>

 

[AmericanGTS]

EDIT: forget this post, my apologizes.

 

[AmericanGTS]

When did I say I ever hated Geno. Outside of Ridley, he's my favorite Nintendo character not yet confirmed. It is obvious to me though that he's not getting in. And if you guys find proof that is for instead of against Geno, then I'll congradulate you, since I want him in, but if you just post inconclusive things like this music debate, then I'll speak up. =/

You may have never said you hated Geno, but you are certainly giving us one hell of a time. Its when you say things like "Geno WILL NOT be in Brawl" that makes me dislike your points and arguments even more. Why you say that based off of your reasons and logic without any proof or evidence is kind of inappropriate. I never said once that my reasons CONFIRM Geno, but I mean there are ways that they COULD promote Geno. I'll admit it right here and now that Geno might not make it into Brawl. I know that he isn't a 100% guaranteed character, but just let us work with what we have. For the record, we don't need to you speak up with your outrageous claims because you're causing problems. If you had proof or evidence, then by all means challenge us. However, if you choose to be hypocritical like you usually are, then please spare us some peace.


I would be happy if he made it in. If he didn't though, I guess wouldn't rub it in your faces per say, but I would watch your reaction with a smirk, since I do like being right. I'll admit that much. But really, I don't need to go on a tirade. It's just to clear to me.

Its clear even when you don't have proof or evidence supporting your claims?

No character has a 100% chance, that's for sure, but to even say 75 or 80 is really just dumb man. There are way to many things holding him back, and you think speculated fan numbers will push him through, when it's never done that in the past? In any case, yes he's a all or nothing type of character...unless SE does get a real one of their icons in, in which case, I'd say he has a chance as a sticker or trophy. In any case, it's not the fact that you don't understand that there's little chance of anything in between for him, but rather that you think he has precidence over so many other characters, that his legal rights can just be cleared up, or that any company really cares about him. Despite all that, you seem ignorant because you say 75% chance with the only proof being that some people asked Sakurai for him to be in, and also you think he'd have a good moveset. =/

No character has a 100% chance, that is for sure, but to even say "Geno will NOT be in Brawl" is really just dumb man. Barely anything is holding Geno back, there are third party characters in Smash Bros Brawl. If Snake can make it into Brawl certainly Geno could too. If the fans want to speak out and request Geno, what are you going to do about it? He was requested, Sakurai acknowledged it even if it was minor and a lot of people want Super Mario RPG to be represented into Brawl.

 

[Fatmanonice]

^Don't forget Peach...I guess.



The actual connection between those composers and the actual Sonic music has actually yet to be truly confirmed, seeing as we don't have any Sonic music with their credits on them... As I said in a previous post, they played the original Sonic Adventure 2 final boss theme during Sonic's trailer.Furthermore, we're constantly getting new musicians that Sakurai didn't mention in the begining. Constantly? We've gotten one new one in the course of 7 months. But still, it's true that all three of those games were Mario RPGs, but that means two of them were in house, and the odds are that she is taking the music from those, due to there being no legal issues at all. You know, because getting permission to use music THAT SHE WROTE would definately be an uphill battle... Heck, there's the chance she composing something new like Nobuo, or is just one of the people helping out, and not directly contributing anything from the past. (And since we are not dealing with the director of SMRPG, that's a moot point). That could be the case but what you're doing is completely eliminating the possibility of it happening based on your bias. Not all the original composers who made the pieces are working on Brawl but Yoko is there and Sakurai said himself that many of them would be contributing their favorite Nintendo themes. "Beware the Poison Mushrooms" is easily the most recognized theme in that game and I wouldn't be surprized at all if she allowed one of the other composers to remix it like how Kondo has with many of the Ocarina of Time themes. Last, Itadaki Street DS used SMRPG music without Geno at all, which is another option for Brawl. (Remember the X update?) Which was a third party game so that arguement is kind of moot. Square Enix would have to recieve some form of credit anyways so why settle for only a single piece of music?


When did I say I ever hated Geno. Outside of Ridley, he's my favorite Nintendo character not yet confirmed. It is obvious to me though that he's not getting in. Meaning in your eyes that he has a 0% chance and is basically the reason why we're even having this little debate. And if you guys find proof that is for instead of against Geno, then I'll congradulate you, since I want him in, but if you just post inconclusive things like this music debate, then I'll speak up. =/ Like I said in the previous post, you downplay everything that anyone brings up so someone could show a letter from Sakurai saying he wants him in the game and you'd still deny it so...

How about listing all the things that supposedly kill his chances? For example, You keep bringing up how he's third party and how you believe he'd be a monstrous pain in the butt to obtain but how can that be the case when Nintendo's used him in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga without fully dragging Square Enix into the game's development? They credited Square Enix and that was that and, despite it being yet another point you've downplayed constantly, it was all due to the two directors of SMRPG that it was able to happen.



I would be happy if he made it in. If he didn't though, I guess wouldn't rub it in your faces per say, but I would watch your reaction with a smirk, since I do like being right. I'll admit that much. But really, I don't need to go on a tirade. It's just to clear to me.

Like I asked before, how it soooooo obvious that he's not going to be in this game? You keep talking like you the final roster in the palm of your hand. At least I believe that he will either be in or he won't instead of believing he doesn't have a chance what-so-ever.



No character has a 100% chance, that's for sure, but to even say 75 or 80 is really just dumb man.

Even when I believe Krystal has a 95% chance, Ridley has 90%, and Megaman has a 85% chance? Yeah, because it's obvious that I'm putting him above everyone else simply because of my own bias... There's other characters that I believe have higher chances too like Claus, Black Shadow, and Sukapon. Also, I think you should read my comments regarding Sakurai's journal in the post to Devistilian (or however you spell it).

There are way to many things holding him back, and you think speculated fan numbers will push him through, when it's never done that in the past?

What's holding him back? I've already debunked how being third party hardly ties him down and how he'd be easier to obtain then most other third party characters, shown how Sakurai and his staff appear to have a decent amount of interest in him and shown that he has several connections to important people at Nintendo so where's this iron gate you keep talking about?

In any case, yes he's a all or nothing type of character...unless SE does get a real one of their icons in, in which case, I'd say he has a chance as a sticker or trophy.

*sigh* As I've already pointed out before, SE really doesn't have anyone that's suitiable to represent it as a whole because the stars of their games change so often. As someone already mentioned, if they added Cloud, they'd basically be shooting themselves in the foot because FFVII was the reason that Nintendo and SE had bad blood during the N64 era and the early part of the Gamecube era. There's other reasons too but that's one of the bigger ones. Sora would drag Disney into the picture and that itself should be enough to scare off anyone.

In any case, it's not the fact that you don't understand that there's little chance of anything in between for him, but rather that you think he has precidence over so many other characters, You know, despite me listing several characters that definately have higher chances then he does and explaining in full detail why, among Mario characters, he really doesn't have any competition... that his legal rights can just be cleared up which they already have once before so why in God's name do you keep bringing this up as if they is supposed to be the end all of this debate, or that any company really cares about him. Despite all that, you seem ignorant because you say 75% chance with the only proof being that some people asked Sakurai for him to be in, and also you think he'd have a good moveset. =/

This line right here tells me that you've basically only read what you've wanted to read... Tell me, when was the last time I even talked about his moveset? Can you honestly tell me? Can you show any post within 100 pages of this one where I use the possibility of his moveset as the foundation of my arguement? Regarding the "few people" comment, you really should read the comment I left in Devistlian's post regarding how if the 5 comments were the only five that were picked out of 10,000 how it becomes really significant.

Also, ignorant people aren't able to respond like I have. Ignorant people curl up in a ball or start flaming wildly because they get caught in a mental corner almost as soon as a debate begins. You seem to be annoyed that I'm even able to debate this issue and that I'm not rolling over simply because you keep coming back.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sorry for the double post but I'm reposting this because I seriously doubt that pieman's going to go back and read what I wrote to Devistilian:

And they showed us the ones they showed us because those particular 290 entries amused/interested them. I've used this analogy before: the poll ran for 29 days and it is estimated that they recieve probably 10,000 entries in all because it was open to the world. Roughly, that would have made 333 entires a day. During each of those days, they chose 10 to post on the site. Geno appeared in 5 and it should also be noted that the last three were very close to each other (entries 247, 268, and 276). Now, we all know that Geno is a relatively obscure character so what are the chances that not only was he in 5 of the 290 entires choosen out of 10,000 (5/10,000 or .00005% actually) but how he appeared 3 times in the span of 4 days (3/1332 or about .0022% actually) unless the entires truely reflected what Sakurai and his staff were interested in? So what we have here is believing something that's logically sound (Sakurai having interest in Geno) or something that's not (Geno only appeared due to an outstanding statistical anomally). To add to this, in the Deoxyes and Saki update, Sakurai comes right out and says that both characters were extremelly popular and yet neither of them appeared even once in the journal.

 

[Devastlian]

I should point out that Cloud isn't my first choice for an SE representative and I just use him as an example.

Notice how many Geno supporters there are on these boards. Not focusing on these boards, he is also popular in Japan and places all around to world; I highly doubt someone who played the SMRPG would not like him. Geno, like I said, has a massive appeal to him, seeing as he hasn't been in any games in so long, and he still has his popularity. I'm guessing you've never played the SMRPG if you don't like him for some reason or think he's not a good choice. His moves would fit perfectly into the game, the only question being what his Up + B (Recovery move) would be.

I have played SMRPG and it's still one of my favorite games.

Final Fantasy fans don't want to see loner badass Cloud fighting next to Pikachu to save Mushroom Kingdom or trophies, or anything of the sort like that.

Yes I do. Even though I'd want another FF main character before Cloud.

If you've seen Geno's moves in the RPG, or even just the moveset McFox made, you'd understand what I mean by different.

Ya, I know what you're talking about. McFox based his moveset on the one I made on the first few pages of the thread. He's not really that unique, though, is what I'm saying. He couldn't have an aspect to him like Samus, Zelda, Ice Climbers, or the Pokemon Trainer do. He'd have a couple unique specials but he's not anymore unique than, say, Diddy or any of the other announced newcomers.

1. What's the problem with the majority being hand-to-hand fighters?

Nothing at all. I'm just annoyed by the attention swords get as though they're taking over the roster.

3. Well, it's just a thought. Also, there's the fact that Cloud is utterly insignificant to Nintendo's history, making him very out-of-place with the rest of the Smashers.

Ya, but a character like Cecil or Terra wouldn't.

4. No, but it DOES give us an accurate judge on who Sakurai's interested in. Even if Cloud was highly requested, if Sakurai doesn't care for him, he'll be an AT at best. This is what happened to Saki.

More along the lines of "was" interested in; the roster's probably finalized by now. And he could've changed his mind or got convinced by his team or the higher ups at Nintendo or from meeting with SE. ...I don't know where you got that part about Saki from; Sakurai did seem interested.

5. Also true. I got this wrong. Either way, though, Sora would be quite hard to aquire, seeing as Disney is a much bigger, much more expensive company than Square.

Not necessarily. Nintendo and Disney have a pretty good relationship. Not mention we have no idea what sort of compensation third parties are getting.

I'm sure he'd fit into SSE snuggly, playing an important role there too.

I think you put too much emphasis on this. With no dialogue or much backstory at all, anyone could fit into SSE, really.

Read the first page of the thread. Geno's not 3rd party, not to mention Sakurai said if he was, he wouldn't count him as 3rd party.

No he didn't. People just assume that because Geno was listed as a Mario character on the SSBM poll.

Sonic wasn't on Sakurai's suggestion list, yet he was added to the roster. Why you ask? Multiple fan requests until he eventually took into consideration. I agree Geno is not close to a level of Sonic's hype, but then again remember, there are limited Geno fans. The reason there are limited Geno fans is because of the amount of games he's been in. Many people haven't even touched that RPG, nor heard of him. How many games has Sonic had in the 11 years since that games release? If Geno was included in more Mario games, I believe he would be alot more popular than he currently is, and his hype level is only for SE and Nintendo to blame.

...Weren't just saying how huge Geno's fanbase is? Also, Sonic fits into pretty much every fan made and apparent requirement for a character (ignoring the fact that he's confirmed).

And once again I say, Cloud may have more fans, but Cloud teaming up with Pichu or another petite character for the good of others?
That's not even close to Cloud, he's a loner and he doesn't need help with his works, yet SSE usually has 2 characters. (from what we've seen)

You mean like Cait Sith? And how Cloud's in a party for the majority of FFVII?

I did not say a specific sports game, so no need to put words in my mouth. I am speaking about games such as Super Mario Strikers, Mario 3vs3 Hoops blah blah... (Yes I played the Basketball game, and I can say it: TRASH; Same thing with Super Mario Strikers)

No, you specifically said Square-Enix and Nintendo.

Heck, if you want to talk like that any character automatically loses any true form of uniqueness because certain characteristics are rarely exclusive. Jigglypuff becomes a modified Kirby, Captain Falcon becomes a modified Samus, King Dedede becomes a modified Ice Climber, and Luigi might as well go jump off a cliff because, in this situation, he's royally screwed. Also, I think it's safe to say that Sakurai probably couldn't care less about affirmative action.

(To those that don't know, affirmative action is hiring someone simply because they are a minority or you don't have "enough" on your workforce.)

I know, sound stupid doesn't it?

I didn't read the original comment regarding this but I'm going to guess that you're saying that Cloud's addition would be a smarter addition then Geno. While Square Enix would easily benefit more, Nintendo would easily have to pay out the nose for him. Keep in mind that the third party characters added so far have connections to high influenceing people with Nintendo and I can't draw any lines of connection between Cloud and anyone of true importance there.

What do you mean by pay out of their nose? More than they're willing or paid for Snake or Sonic? Is any proof to this?

The founder of Alpha Dream was a former president of Squaresoft. I'm sure he could help in negotiations with any SE character.

And they showed us the ones they showed us because those particular 290 entries amused/interested them. I've used this analogy before: the poll ran for 29 days and it is estimated that they recieve probably 10,000 entries in all because it was open to the world. Roughly, that would have made 333 entires a day. During each of those days, they chose 10 to post on the site. Geno appeared in 5 and it should also be noted that the last three were very close to each other (entries 247, 268, and 276). Now, we all know that Geno is a relatively obscure character so what are the chances that not only was he in 5 of the 290 entires choosen out of 10,000 (5/10,000 or .00005% actually) but how he appeared 3 times in the span of 4 days (3/1332 or about .0022% actually) unless the entires truely reflected what Sakurai and his staff were interested in? So what we have here is believing something that's logically sound (Sakurai having interest in Geno) or something that's not (Geno only appeared due to an outstanding statistical anomally). To add to this, in the Deoxyes and Saki update, Sakurai comes right out and says that both characters were extremelly popular and yet neither of them appeared even once in the journal.

Wouldn't 3 in 4 days be 3/40? And there were days where he did 20 in a day, too.

So Sakurai coming out and expressing interest in certain characters to the press doesn't mean a lot? Huh...

I meant we don't hear everything that's being done to the game as it's being included. There weren't any interviews done mentioning Snake until after he was announced which could be why we haven't heard about any other talks.

Also, he's only done that with Sonic and Mega Man; there's no evidence that he's done it with any other character.

...

That's not it at all. I like Geno and all of that I just don't agree with some of the evidence people put forth.

This whole Cloud argument is pissing me off.....Why would Nintendo add a character into a flagship game that symbolizes the terrible relationship they have had with Square the last 10 years........thats just dumb...real dumb.

Nintendo Rep::: "Hey remember that game you guys were going to make for Nintendo 64 but totally ditched us to make on the Playstation because you did not want to use cartridges? And afterwards we said in interviews we would never work with your company ever again because of it? Ya can we have the main character from that game appear in brawl?

And after that they went with discs anyway and SE started making games for them again. And Konami and Capcom stopped only putting crappy ports in Nintendo's systems. If they're going to put their differences behind them and acknowledge the bond they used to have, why would they be so fickle about what character it would be?

 

[Pieman0920]

You may have never said you hated Geno, but you are certainly giving us one hell of a time. Its when you say things like "Geno WILL NOT be in Brawl" that makes me dislike your points and arguments even more. Why you say that based off of your reasons and logic without any proof or evidence is kind of inappropriate. I never said once that my reasons CONFIRM Geno, but I mean there are ways that they COULD promote Geno. I'll admit it right here and now that Geno might not make it into Brawl. I know that he isn't a 100% guaranteed character, but just let us work with what we have. For the record, we don't need to you speak up with your outrageous claims because you're causing problems. If you had proof or evidence, then by all means challenge us. However, if you choose to be hypocritical like you usually are, then please spare us some peace.

You're paraphrasing me wrong. Though I do think that "Geno WILL NOT be in Brawl" I have made it a point to say that it's what I think, rather than simply state it as a fact, no matter how obvious it may be. This is because it's not set in stone. All the facts pretty much do that, but only pretty much. Thus I add in that it's what I think. And I still don't get why you people go so much of the defensive in this manner. These are valid reasons why he probably won't get in, and you need to take them seriously, instead of brushing them aside, or attacking the messenger. I have been the one giving you guys the evidence of my claims. There are past examples that verify my claims. What exactly do you have besides that poll, which everyone knows is highly questionable?

Its clear even when you don't have proof or evidence supporting your claims?

Please, what is with you guys? I'm the one who's been giving evidence. Why are you ignoring it?

No character has a 100% chance, that is for sure, but to even say "Geno will NOT be in Brawl" is really just dumb man. Barely anything is holding Geno back, there are third party characters in Smash Bros Brawl. If Snake can make it into Brawl certainly Geno could too. If the fans want to speak out and request Geno, what are you going to do about it? He was requested, Sakurai acknowledged it even if it was minor and a lot of people want Super Mario RPG to be represented into Brawl.

Nice try at twising my words around and not noticing that it doesn't work both ways. Snake is much more popular and well known than Geno. He's a video game icon, unlike Geno, who's not even a Nintendo icon. Snake making it in also was due to Kojima "begging" Sakurai. Now I don't know exactly who made Geno, but I doubt that person cares enough about Geno to even do what Kojima did. Why do I say that? Well look at all the new Mario games where he teams up with SE characters. But that isn't Brawl you say? Well quite frankly, it's still Mario with SE characters, just like SMRPG. Why not add in Geno right there?! The same conditions were met as of old, yet they meant nothing. Neither company cares.

Additionally, third party characters like Snake pay for themselves by the sheer fact that they bring in new fans to the SSB seris. Geno can't do that. He's an obscure Mario character. He's not going to bring in anyone new, so why bother pay the money? Oh, you think they could get him for cheap? Well tell me how you'd even know that. But M&L had him as a cameo? Well that's just a friggen cameo, in opposition to a full blown playable character. Heck, just look at the guy compared to the other third party characters, and you can tell he's nothing special at all. And quite frankly we have three SMRPG characters already, so we do have them in Brawl.

 

[AmericanGTS]

That's not it at all. I like Geno and all of that I just don't agree with some of the evidence people put forth.

If we had some evidence to work with, you can be certain we'd be posting it. Most of our points are hypothetical speculation that does have factual relevance.. I mean it isn't the fan's fault that Sakurai isn't telling us anything about Geno.

 

[AmericanGTS]

You're paraphrasing me wrong. Though I do think that "Geno WILL NOT be in Brawl" I have made it a point to say that it's what I think, rather than simply state it as a fact, no matter how obvious it may be. This is because it's not set in stone. All the facts pretty much do that, but only pretty much. Thus I add in that it's what I think. And I still don't get why you people go so much of the defensive in this manner. These are valid reasons why he probably won't get in, and you need to take them seriously, instead of brushing them aside, or attacking the messenger. I have been the one giving you guys the evidence of my claims. There are past examples that verify my claims. What exactly do you have besides that poll, which everyone knows is highly questionable?

Whoa, hold it right there! You have claimed that Geno would NOT be in Brawl as a fact. I mentioned it many pages ago when you were debating with me the first time. This entire post of yours is a giant contradiction. "Its obvious he won't be", "it isn't set in stone" what the hell? Also, you aren't providing us with facts. You're providing reasons that you want to be facts. There are no "facts" that clearly state Geno will be confirmed or not. I must say that I haven't seen one single thing that you've posted that has truly debunked our arguments. Other than "Oh.. boohoo Geno wasn't in Mario Hoops.. a game that is entirely unrelated to Brawl in every way, that means SAKURAI should just forget about Geno!" I'm sorry Pieman, but you do NOT have facts that clearly state that Geno is NOT in Brawl. Simply, speculation like the rest of us.


Please, what is with you guys? I'm the one who's been giving evidence. Why are you ignoring it?

What evidence?! Do you personally know someone from Hal Labs, or anyone affiliated with the official production of Brawl, that has officially debunked Geno?



Nice try at twising my words around and not noticing that it doesn't work both ways. Snake is much more popular and well known than Geno. He's a video game icon, unlike Geno, who's not even a Nintendo icon. Snake making it in also was due to Kojima "begging" Sakurai. Now I don't know exactly who made Geno, but I doubt that person cares enough about Geno to even do what Kojima did. Why do I say that? Well look at all the new Mario games where he teams up with SE characters. But that isn't Brawl you say? Well quite frankly, it's still Mario with SE characters, just like SMRPG. Why not add in Geno right there?! The same conditions were met as of old, yet they meant nothing. Neither company cares.

Well, you stated your very first statement factually with no evidence supporting it. This isn't about Snake anyways. By the way, if you're referring to games on the DS, there might be a sequel in the future. Besides, how many people could voice their opinion? Also, that one game DOES have Super Mario RPG music. You're right, Geno isn't in there but that doesn't deconfirm him either! Plain and simply, who knows why he wasn't in.



Additionally, third party characters like Snake pay for themselves by the sheer fact that they bring in new fans to the SSB seris. Geno can't do that. He's an obscure Mario character. He's not going to bring in anyone new, so why bother pay the money? Oh, you think they could get him for cheap? Well tell me how you'd even know that. But M&L had him as a cameo? Well that's just a friggen cameo, in opposition to a full blown playable character. Heck, just look at the guy compared to the other third party characters, and you can tell he's nothing special at all. And quite frankly we have three SMRPG characters already, so we do have them in Brawl.

Ok, but does Mario, Peach and Bowser CLEARLY represent Super Mario RPG and not the entire Super Mario franchise in general?

 

[Desruprot]

Aye sooo much to read, to keep it simple, Geno got 4 votes on Sakuria's Poll, Krystal got 3 hen Geno>Krystal>Ridley>....

 

[Copperpot]

I'm going to try to avoid getting sucked into this debate, but I do have something that I'd like to address:

Pieman, AmericanGTS, Devastlian, and Fatmanonice, I think it's time for us all to agree to disagree. It's sort of funny that this is all amongst Geno fans, but I can only see this resulting in a flame war. Not once, in this entire debate, have I seen any proof (pertaining to Geno being, or not being, in Brawl) presented at all. There's no point in asking for it. There isn't any, at least, not right now.

The only real fact, that definately shows its ugly face during these past few pages, is that no one really knows what's going on, and when I say 'no one', I'm not specifically addressing the people in this thread more-so than I am everyone in general (besides Sakurai, of course).

Pieman, from the information that you've gathered, you've come to think that Geno will not make the cut. That's perfectly fine, and you're entitled to believe so just as much as anyone here can believe the contrary.

In short, there's really no point in arguing about it. I can't tell any of you that you're wrong. Nor can I say that any of you are right. Only time can tell if we merely have blind faith if our hopes were warranted.

 

[AmericanGTS]

You're right Copperpot, we should all just move on. Although, like any thread, we have our fair share of haters. It gets to be utterly annoying when people stop by here and rain down on our parade. I don't mind people sharing constructive criticism as long as its relevant to Brawl but for the most part I think we're all tired of the crap that people say with this "one game" or "he wasn't in _____ game, that means ______ doesn't care about him!" or "he isn't popular" and blah blah blah.. and to be quite frank, I'm sick of it. I'm trying to defend Geno's good name partly because I'm bored and partly because I want Geno to make a return in other games too. A lot of the opposing argument is hypocrisy that holds little to no factual evidence.

But I understand where you're coming from and I apologize for the light flaming. I will drop the debates entirely.

Hopefully if Sakurai decides to give us a special Christmas update (unlikely) it will be Geno! It would save us so much time and stress.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Aye sooo much to read, to keep it simple, Geno got 4 votes on Sakuria's Poll, Krystal got 3 hen Geno>Krystal>Ridley>....

Krystal and ridley got four and geno got 5, FMOI Has proof of that <_<.

I'm going to try to avoid getting sucked into this debate, but I do have something that I'd like to address:

Pieman, AmericanGTS, Devastlian, and Fatmanonice, I think it's time for us all to agree to disagree. It's sort of funny that this is all amongst Geno fans, but I can only see this resulting in a flame war. Not once, in this entire debate, have I seen any proof (pertaining to Geno being, or not being, in Brawl) presented at all. There's no point in asking for it. There isn't any, at least, not right now.

The only real fact, that definately shows its ugly face during these past few pages, is that no one really knows what's going on, and when I say 'no one', I'm not specifically addressing the people in this thread more-so than I am everyone in general (besides Sakurai, of course).

Pieman, from the information that you've gathered, you've come to think that Geno will not make the cut. That's perfectly fine, and you're entitled to believe so just as much as anyone here can believe the contrary.

In short, there's really no point in arguing about it. I can't tell any of you that you're wrong. Nor can I say that any of you are right. Only time can tell if we merely have blind faith if our hopes were warranted.

Well said, Agreed...

 

[ValiantVernon]

ok so yea guys to get away from this debate and such how do you think they should enter Geno into the Subspace Emisary??? I think he should come in about the middle or so with some mario character being the one to dicover him =-]]

 

[Machspeed]

Most likely; either Mario, Peach, or Bowser will have to do with his entrance. (Characters who he fought alongside in the RPG)

 

[Cless]

With the randomness of the SSE so far, he should be found by like Captain Falcon or maybe Luigi since he was barely in SMRPG.

 

[Machspeed]

He should start off with SOMEONE from the mushroom kingdom, lets say it like that, and get displaced with another character from a random series.

Like how we saw Diddy start off with Donkey Kong, and somehow end up with Fox.

 

[Cless]

Luigi it is then.

 

[AmericanGTS]

I was thinking that Gazz is in the forest picking mushrooms for his mom and he has the Geno doll with him and as he is picking mushrooms he sees a bush rumble and then a bad guy jumps out of the bushes and lands right in front of Gazz. Gazz picks up the Geno doll and tries to fire his wooden arm or whatever and it just deflects right off the baddie. Then Gazz tosses Geno down and starts to shake and duck for cover then Geno comes to life and rocket punches the baddie and it goes flying off into the distance.