Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
Ugh, my internet connection is messed up again. I guess I have to respond like this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
Heck, if you want to talk like that any character automatically loses any true form of uniqueness because certain characteristics are rarely exclusive. Jigglypuff becomes a modified Kirby, Captain Falcon becomes a modified Samus, King Dedede becomes a modified Ice Climber, and Luigi might as well go jump off a cliff because, in this situation, he's royally screwed. Also, I think it's safe to say that Sakurai probably couldn't care less about affirmative action.
(To those that don't know, affirmative action is hiring someone simply because they are a minority or you don't have "enough" on your workforce.)
I know, sound stupid doesn't it?
The image didn't come up so I can't exactly respond... Regardless, we've already had three swordsmen turned into ATs (two of them having a decent amount of popularity, I might add) so it provides evidence that Sakurai is being very careful when it comes to picking new Swordsmen. Regarding Cloud, he barely meets the minimal requirements. He was a boss and summon in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. That's it. His other problem is that other then that, he's pretty much Sony oriented. With Snake, at least he can lean on how he had a Nintendo exclusive. Come to think of it, a 3D version of the game was included in the Final Mix version of Kingdom Hearts 2 so that leaves both Cloud and Sora, arguibly SE's biggest icons, high and dry.
Snake representing Konami is understandable too considering how for Castlvania, there are, what, 5 Belmonts that have been playable through the series and a handful of other characters too like Soma Cruz and Goemon is hardly known outside Japan (unfortunately).
Quote:
I didn't read the original comment regarding this but I'm going to guess that you're saying that Cloud's addition would be a smarter addition then Geno. While Square Enix would easily benefit more, Nintendo would easily have to pay out the nose for him. Keep in mind that the third party characters added so far have connections to high influenceing people with Nintendo and I can't draw any lines of connection between Cloud and anyone of true importance there.
What do you mean by pay out of their nose? More than they're willing or paid for Snake or Sonic? Is any proof to this?
What I mean is both literal and figuartive. Cloud is a huge icon; we all know this. Adding him doesn't exactly bring any benefits to Nintendo except maybe more copies of Brawl sold. From what I understand, thanks to Kojima, Nintendo had a relatively easy time getting the "rental rights" to Snake. The benefits of Sonic's addition are a no brainer considering how close Sega and Nintendo have been in recent years and how it's been one of the Wii's biggest supporters both with software and the virtual console. For Cloud, the benefits wouldn't exactly be long term and I can't really see him paying for himself over time. As I've mentioned in other posts, Geno doesn't have this problem because he's virtually worthless to Square Enix and, as the past has shown, getting him would be a snap and almost as easy as getting permission to use a second party character. With this said, even if he didn't pay for himself overtime (perhaps with decent sales of SMRPG for the virtual console), the loss wouldn't be all that great. Have you ever bought a video game at full price, go through it, and realize that it was okay but definately not the money *coughstarfoxadventurescough* or bought a discount/used game, play through it, and realize that it knocked your socks off? The situation is kind of like that.
The founder of Alpha Dream was a former president of Squaresoft. I'm sure he could help in negotiations with any SE character.
But why use a character that's technically never been in a Nintendo exclusive when Brawl is essentially a celebration of Nintendo's history?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
And they showed us the ones they showed us because those particular 290 entries amused/interested them. I've used this analogy before: the poll ran for 29 days and it is estimated that they recieve probably 10,000 entries in all because it was open to the world. Roughly, that would have made 333 entires a day. During each of those days, they chose 10 to post on the site. Geno appeared in 5 and it should also be noted that the last three were very close to each other (entries 247, 268, and 276). Now, we all know that Geno is a relatively obscure character so what are the chances that not only was he in 5 of the 290 entires choosen out of 10,000 (5/10,000 or .00005% actually) but how he appeared 3 times in the span of 4 days (3/1332 or about .0022% actually) unless the entires truely reflected what Sakurai and his staff were interested in? So what we have here is believing something that's logically sound (Sakurai having interest in Geno) or something that's not (Geno only appeared due to an outstanding statistical anomally). To add to this, in the Deoxyes and Saki update, Sakurai comes right out and says that both characters were extremelly popular and yet neither of them appeared even once in the journal.
Wouldn't 3 in 4 days be 3/40? And there were days where he did 20 in a day, too.
No, it'd be 3/1332 because we averaged that they recieved about 333 entries a day. 3/40 ( 7.5% exactly which is still a small percentage) is what we end up with after we elminate those other entries. Also, the poll ran for about a month so did he skip days. Either way, we still have the conclusions I reached above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
So Sakurai coming out and expressing interest in certain characters to the press doesn't mean a lot? Huh...
I meant we don't hear everything that's being done to the game as it's being included. There weren't any interviews done mentioning Snake until after he was announced which could be why we haven't heard about any other talks.
Point taken but I wouldn't expect a large number of "unforeshadowed" characters if I were you. If there are more then 2 characters in Brawl (besides Snake, I guess) that weren't mentioned in Sakurai's journal, the 2001 Melee Poll results, or interviews made public since 2001, I will be very, very shocked. (In a good way depending on the character. *points at Marina Liteyears and Captain Syrup*) Regarding this, Paper Mario is the only character I can really see happening in this category.
Also, he's only done that with Sonic and Mega Man; there's no evidence that he's done it with any other character.
I forgot what the context of this statement was so I'll just let it be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
Do you really want to drag Disney into this game? Enough said...
Sure, why not?
I don't know about you but, as far as third parties go, I'd rather have third parties that have contributed a decent amount to Nintendo. Seriously, name one Disney game besides Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories (which credit more to Square Enix anyways) made in the past decade that has really had an impact on Nintendo at least in terms of sales? Capcom, Square Enix, Namco, and even Ubisoft are more worthy of rep then Disney is. In all honestly, I rather see Rockstar Games, Naughty Dog, or Atari repped before Disney... That's how against it I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
As I've already pointed out, that's hardly a factor in this situation.
So you'll stop using it as evidence, then
When did I say that Geno was an extremelly popular character? His current situation is comparable to Pit's if you ask me: at first, most people didn't know who he was, many began to like him and request him, some people believed he was too obscure to enter Brawl's ranks, some people claimed that Nintendo didn't care about him because of his abscenses and minor appearances*winks at pieman*, he was only requested 5 times during the 2001 Melee poll (as was Geno, by the way), etc. He definately has a cult following behind him but, popularity wise, he's crushed by the likes of other megatons like Ridley, Megaman, and Krystal (people he was mentioned more then in the context's of the journal, by the way).
My responses red. (As if it weren't obvious by this point.
)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
Heck, if you want to talk like that any character automatically loses any true form of uniqueness because certain characteristics are rarely exclusive. Jigglypuff becomes a modified Kirby, Captain Falcon becomes a modified Samus, King Dedede becomes a modified Ice Climber, and Luigi might as well go jump off a cliff because, in this situation, he's royally screwed. Also, I think it's safe to say that Sakurai probably couldn't care less about affirmative action.
I know, sound stupid doesn't it?
The image didn't come up so I can't exactly respond... Regardless, we've already had three swordsmen turned into ATs (two of them having a decent amount of popularity, I might add) so it provides evidence that Sakurai is being very careful when it comes to picking new Swordsmen. Regarding Cloud, he barely meets the minimal requirements. He was a boss and summon in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. That's it. His other problem is that other then that, he's pretty much Sony oriented. With Snake, at least he can lean on how he had a Nintendo exclusive. Come to think of it, a 3D version of the game was included in the Final Mix version of Kingdom Hearts 2 so that leaves both Cloud and Sora, arguibly SE's biggest icons, high and dry.
Snake representing Konami is understandable too considering how for Castlvania, there are, what, 5 Belmonts that have been playable through the series and a handful of other characters too like Soma Cruz and Goemon is hardly known outside Japan (unfortunately).
Quote:
I didn't read the original comment regarding this but I'm going to guess that you're saying that Cloud's addition would be a smarter addition then Geno. While Square Enix would easily benefit more, Nintendo would easily have to pay out the nose for him. Keep in mind that the third party characters added so far have connections to high influenceing people with Nintendo and I can't draw any lines of connection between Cloud and anyone of true importance there.
What do you mean by pay out of their nose? More than they're willing or paid for Snake or Sonic? Is any proof to this?
What I mean is both literal and figuartive. Cloud is a huge icon; we all know this. Adding him doesn't exactly bring any benefits to Nintendo except maybe more copies of Brawl sold. From what I understand, thanks to Kojima, Nintendo had a relatively easy time getting the "rental rights" to Snake. The benefits of Sonic's addition are a no brainer considering how close Sega and Nintendo have been in recent years and how it's been one of the Wii's biggest supporters both with software and the virtual console. For Cloud, the benefits wouldn't exactly be long term and I can't really see him paying for himself over time. As I've mentioned in other posts, Geno doesn't have this problem because he's virtually worthless to Square Enix and, as the past has shown, getting him would be a snap and almost as easy as getting permission to use a second party character. With this said, even if he didn't pay for himself overtime (perhaps with decent sales of SMRPG for the virtual console), the loss wouldn't be all that great. Have you ever bought a video game at full price, go through it, and realize that it was okay but definately not the money *coughstarfoxadventurescough* or bought a discount/used game, play through it, and realize that it knocked your socks off? The situation is kind of like that.
The founder of Alpha Dream was a former president of Squaresoft. I'm sure he could help in negotiations with any SE character.
But why use a character that's technically never been in a Nintendo exclusive when Brawl is essentially a celebration of Nintendo's history?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
And they showed us the ones they showed us because those particular 290 entries amused/interested them. I've used this analogy before: the poll ran for 29 days and it is estimated that they recieve probably 10,000 entries in all because it was open to the world. Roughly, that would have made 333 entires a day. During each of those days, they chose 10 to post on the site. Geno appeared in 5 and it should also be noted that the last three were very close to each other (entries 247, 268, and 276). Now, we all know that Geno is a relatively obscure character so what are the chances that not only was he in 5 of the 290 entires choosen out of 10,000 (5/10,000 or .00005% actually) but how he appeared 3 times in the span of 4 days (3/1332 or about .0022% actually) unless the entires truely reflected what Sakurai and his staff were interested in? So what we have here is believing something that's logically sound (Sakurai having interest in Geno) or something that's not (Geno only appeared due to an outstanding statistical anomally). To add to this, in the Deoxyes and Saki update, Sakurai comes right out and says that both characters were extremelly popular and yet neither of them appeared even once in the journal.
Wouldn't 3 in 4 days be 3/40? And there were days where he did 20 in a day, too.
No, it'd be 3/1332 because we averaged that they recieved about 333 entries a day. 3/40 ( 7.5% exactly which is still a small percentage) is what we end up with after we elminate those other entries. Also, the poll ran for about a month so did he skip days. Either way, we still have the conclusions I reached above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
So Sakurai coming out and expressing interest in certain characters to the press doesn't mean a lot? Huh...
I meant we don't hear everything that's being done to the game as it's being included. There weren't any interviews done mentioning Snake until after he was announced which could be why we haven't heard about any other talks.
Point taken but I wouldn't expect a large number of "unforeshadowed" characters if I were you. If there are more then 2 characters in Brawl (besides Snake, I guess) that weren't mentioned in Sakurai's journal, the 2001 Melee Poll results, or interviews made public since 2001, I will be very, very shocked. (In a good way depending on the character. *points at Marina Liteyears and Captain Syrup*) Regarding this, Paper Mario is the only character I can really see happening in this category.
Also, he's only done that with Sonic and Mega Man; there's no evidence that he's done it with any other character.
I forgot what the context of this statement was so I'll just let it be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
Do you really want to drag Disney into this game? Enough said...
Sure, why not?
I don't know about you but, as far as third parties go, I'd rather have third parties that have contributed a decent amount to Nintendo. Seriously, name one Disney game besides Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories (which credit more to Square Enix anyways) made in the past decade that has really had an impact on Nintendo at least in terms of sales? Capcom, Square Enix, Namco, and even Ubisoft are more worthy of rep then Disney is. In all honestly, I rather see Rockstar Games, Naughty Dog, or Atari repped before Disney... That's how against it I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
As I've already pointed out, that's hardly a factor in this situation.
So you'll stop using it as evidence, then
When did I say that Geno was an extremelly popular character? His current situation is comparable to Pit's if you ask me: at first, most people didn't know who he was, many began to like him and request him, some people believed he was too obscure to enter Brawl's ranks, some people claimed that Nintendo didn't care about him because of his abscenses and minor appearances*winks at pieman*, he was only requested 5 times during the 2001 Melee poll (as was Geno, by the way), etc. He definately has a cult following behind him but, popularity wise, he's crushed by the likes of other megatons like Ridley, Megaman, and Krystal (people he was mentioned more then in the context's of the journal, by the way).
My responses red. (As if it weren't obvious by this point.
)
