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The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! Updated 8/14/14!

Sneak8288

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why dont you guys update the rankings a little less frequent and use more data than just maybe 2 tournaments since they happen pretty frequent down here and try to create some sort of point system, to make the list as accurate and unbiased as possible. for instance, say you have 10 spaces for the list, each spot holds points from like 2 to 11 with 11 being the #1 spot and everyone off the list is a 1 pointer. you have a tournament ranking period of like 3 tournaments with 2 being the requirement to get ranked so if you wana be ranked your gonna go and enter. then you just add the points accordingly and whoever you beat holds a point value so you dont have to just be like person A is better than person B but person C beat him so he shouldn't be ranked and blah blah... the system would handle it. Sorry for grammar.. i'm on my phone and didn't feel like trying
 

lord karn

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I do think we should make the updates slightly less frequent. Perhaps increase it to four tournaments or something. These past rankings have just been too hard to accurately make due to lack of data for many players.

I disagree with a point system, though. Set counts are more accurate. Point systems make things complicated because of attendance.

Edit: Also, people who start the ranking period ranked would be at a disadvantage because they would get byes which wouldn't mean anything.
 

Sneak8288

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not if they get far in the tournament and beat more important people and the set count would matter, and you can also give a bye a point value. higher ranked players should be beating higher ranked people and would need to stay consistent to earn points and keep a high point total. for instance... say kevin gets a bye round one but wins the tournament, even tho he only got one point for round 1 by the time he got to grand finals the opponents would get harder and harder having higher point values which would add up in the end. with the point system, who you beat matters and if you have an easy bracket then your not gonna get a high rank on the pr for placing high because you only had to play scrubs (no offense to anyone) all day. So say if i was a scrub and i got 3rd at a small tourney because i beat more scrubs my point total would reflect that i only beat scrubs
 

lord karn

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not if they get far in the tournament and beat more important people and the set count would matter, and you can also give a bye a point value. higher ranked players should be beating higher ranked people and would need to stay consistent to earn points and keep a high point total. for instance... say kevin gets a bye round one but wins the tournament, even tho he only got one point for round 1 by the time he got to grand finals the opponents would get harder and harder having higher point values which would add up in the end. with the point system, who you beat matters and if you have an easy bracket then your not gonna get a high rank on the pr for placing high because you only had to play scrubs (no offense to anyone) all day. So say if i was a scrub and i got 3rd at a small tourney because i beat more scrubs my point total would reflect that i only beat scrubs

Ok, let's say there is an unranked player who gets really good this ranking period. Let's say theoretically that said player is almost completely equal in skill level to someone that is powerranked now. This newly skilled player gets a low seed, so first round he plays someone powerranked. The already powerranked player of equal skill either gets a bye or plays a scrub. The powerranked player gets like one point for beating a scrub, but the new player gets many points when he beats the good player (remember the other player would win this match too if he played it).

So we have two equal players, but one gets more opportunities to get points because he's unranked. That doesn't seem fair. Being highly seeded shouldn't be such a disadvantage.

Also, if we have a point system, someone who comes to like every tournament and goes 1-2 could possibly accumulate more points than someone who comes to only one tournament but does pretty well. In reality the first player could suck, but he would be ranked higher than the second.

Also, it's hard for point systems to incorporate losses into the rankings. Losses are just as important as wins when calculating the rankings. This ranking system would favor people who are inconsistent and attend a lot of tournaments (like me). I tend to be able to beat several good people, but I also lose to people that I statistically shouldn't a lot. Because I almost always beat someone relatively good, I would accumulate a lot of points because I go to a lot of tournaments, and my losses wouldn't really matter that much. It would be unfair to people like cam/twitch who don't go to as many tournaments but don't really lose to anyone bad. In this system I would probably be ranked higher than them.
 

Bl@ckChris

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hmm....points are weird.

but once they become in the system after 2 rankings, they will make sense.

idk. complicated matter. starting it is hard, and finding a proper mathematical balance to incorporate wins, losses, and attendance in any sort of formula is...hard, if not impossible.

doesn't affect me too much. it'll be a while yet before i make these at all.
 

Sneak8288

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Ok, let's say there is an unranked player who gets really good this ranking period. Let's say theoretically that said player is almost completely equal in skill level to someone that is powerranked now. This newly skilled player gets a low seed, so first round he plays someone powerranked. The already powerranked player of equal skill either gets a bye or plays a scrub. The powerranked player gets like one point for beating a scrub, but the new player gets many points when he beats the good player (remember the other player would win this match too if he played it).

So we have two equal players, but one gets more opportunities to get points because he's unranked. That doesn't seem fair. Being highly seeded shouldn't be such a disadvantage.

Also, if we have a point system, someone who comes to like every tournament and goes 1-2 could possibly accumulate more points than someone who comes to only one tournament but does pretty well. In reality the first player could suck, but he would be ranked higher than the second.

Also, it's hard for point systems to incorporate losses into the rankings. Losses are just as important as wins when calculating the rankings. This ranking system would favor people who are inconsistent and attend a lot of tournaments (like me). I tend to be able to beat several good people, but I also lose to people that I statistically shouldn't a lot. Because I almost always beat someone relatively good, I would accumulate a lot of points because I go to a lot of tournaments, and my losses wouldn't really matter that much. It would be unfair to people like cam/twitch who don't go to as many tournaments but don't really lose to anyone bad. In this system I would probably be ranked higher than them.
thats also where activity comes into play, if you place well at one tournament and thats all you can go to than you would be on the list of good and noticeable players but unranked due to inactivity. also with the other scenario i doubt that one match would really make that much of a difference unless they beat someone really high on the list and that unranked player would also have to consistently beat ranked players every tournament during the season. you could also seed based on point total for the current season for tournaments also so by the last couple tournaments of the season his point total would be pretty high and it would mean he consistently beat ranked players and therefore would be playing a lower seeded person early on in the tournament.. the details of the system could be fine tuned and hammered out down the line but i do think this is the way to produce the most accurate results without any bias at all and as for the losses they could be incorporated by subtracting a small amount based on who you lost to but not an amount so high that it would overpower the wins they have had during the season which i think is more important. kevin could lose to ocean 1st round but win the tournament and would that loss to ocean mean anything? hell no because kevin walked away with the prize money
 

Moophobia

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Yeah he's the knight, go get a rom of it and you'll be raging all night I'm sure...

Or you'll just **** it and make me look like an idiot.
 

lord karn

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A few points would make a difference in a lot of scenarios. As for high up in the prs, it could make the difference between yay and lozr who in past rankings have been absurdly close. The main place it matters is lower in the prs, where there isn't as much data (because the players get out of the tournaments faster).

If you incorporate things like attendance and losses, then it becomes something more than just a point system, and something more like what we have now. We don't actively think about attendance the way we do it now, but if players don't attend, they don't get data and thus can't be ranked. We currently incorporate wins and losses. The only 'bias' that comes into play is when the data between two players is ambiguous. If we adopt a point system, there would be a clear cut difference between players, but that difference, while objective, wouldn't necessarily be any more accurate than it is now. In fact, the problems that I have brought up already would probably make it less accurate, though more definitive.


And PP losing to an unranked player would matter for him a lot. While his other data is so good it probably wouldn't make him not #1, it theoretically could if other players also did well vs. him and didn't lose to ocean.

To sum everything up, we already consider everything that the proposed point system does, without the negatives. I think that if people were aware of all the data that we use to determine the power rankings, people wouldn't be as surprised as they are when they come out. Sometimes the lower spots are relatively ambiguous and we are forced to make a judgement call, and it is possible that our decisions are wrong. However, when we have more data, the rankings are usually much more clear cut. Perhaps next time, if we do indeed wait for four tournaments, PP and I will write up an explanation for why each player gets the spot they get. In reality, it is much more objective than most of you realize.
 

Bl@ckChris

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i wouldn't say the loss means nothing, ryan lol. thats kind of a stretch. however, his points attained on his run through losers bracket should greatly outweigh his loss to ocean.

it would mean that ocean would end up pr'd though, probably.

if the goal is for oos to come in and know who is who in NC, then this point system can work....maybe. however, for the more self-satisfying part of nc (ie, determining who is who within nc for US to look at) then our current system gets the job done pretty well.
 

stingers

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however, for the more self-satisfying part of nc (ie, determining who is who within nc for US to look at) then our current system gets the job done pretty well.
not really, take me off and put sneak on, that dude hits buttons really fast so he can rep NC far better then me :c
 

Bl@ckChris

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lol stingers shutup, you really are one of the better smashers we have in NC. i need to talk to you about the peach matchup. i get *****. a lot.
 

Dr Peepee

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So no one will be happy unless they basically become part of the panel and nitpick every decision the panel makes by having every decision completely exposed? Defeats the point of a panel.

Had something else I wanted to say but I'm not fully conscious.
 

bossa nova ♪

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So no one will be happy unless they basically become part of the panel and nitpick every decision the panel makes by having every decision completely exposed? Defeats the point of a panel.

Had something else I wanted to say but I'm not fully conscious.
lol u say this like every time.



maybe when things don work..... ees tyme forr deh nü shtingz!>!>!?!?!?! :reverse::mad::reverse:
 
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