The Nintendo "Off My Chest" thread (BE CIVIL)

[fogbadge]

Link and Zelda maybe not.

But Ganon was a far more compelling character when WW gave him some honorable traits. He's just gotten boring with those hints thrown out.

And even disregarding them, we could still have species groups who want to either be independent from Hyrule or want to take over without Ganon's help. Would make the universe more alive and compelling.

yes two seconds of introspection compared to 36 years of pure evil. It doesn’t make sense for ganon a form of living hate to have redeeming qualities. Sure a conflict for independence could be an interesting story but it’s not gonna work with ganon. He’d just subjugate them himself

 

[Baysha]

You know what drives me crazy? The Switch's themes menu. I mean, just look at it.

Spoiler: Large Image

View attachment 366821

Like, really, why even bother including a themes menu if you only have two options? Would it really kill Nintendo to let me use a pink theme!?

And, oh hey, what's this?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Sooooooo.... We almost had more themes, and they just decided to not go ahead with it? I can't even think of a good explanation for this, it's harmless content. Is Nintendo allergic to colors or something?

The worst part in my opinion is that there isn't even a "cynical and corporate" reason for them to not have more themes. They just did it for pretty much no reason.

 

[Oracle Link]

I really, really want a morally gray Zelda game. We need more than just glimpses of the good guys acting underhanded and the bad guys having noble qualities.

A Dark Link game could be cool!
And you wouldnt even need a new playstyle!

 

[fogbadge]

Actually thinking about it Quillion i think link between worlds had what you’re after

 

[Quillion]

yes two seconds of introspection compared to 36 years of pure evil. It doesn’t make sense for ganon a form of living hate to have redeeming qualities. Sure a conflict for independence could be an interesting story but it’s not gonna work with ganon. He’d just subjugate them himself

Actually thinking about it Quillion i think link between worlds had what you’re after

That's the thing though; those moments are just glimpses rather than interesting developments.

Even in ALBW, the unambiguously selfish Yuga dominates so much that the plot to save Lorule ends up being undercooked.

 

[Oracle Link]

That's the thing though; those moments are just glimpses rather than interesting developments.

Even in ALBW, the unambiguously selfish Yuga dominates so much that the plot to save Lorule ends up being undercooked.

How about Links Awekening? I mean link is not evil there but he is selfish!

 

[fogbadge]

How about Links Awekening? I mean link is not evil there but he is selfish!

how is freeing the windfish selfish?

 

[Perkilator]

I feel like Dragalia Lost was treated unfairly by most people and even Nintendo themselves. The game is extremely generous with its gacha mechanics and the gameplay is hella fun for a mobile game, along with having a genuinely good story. I genuinely wish it was given a legitimate chance.

 

[Oracle Link]

how is freeing the windfish selfish?

I mean it does destroy Koholintalthough granted i already thought that selfish might have been the wrong word!

 

[chocolatejr9]

I feel like Dragalia Lost was treated unfairly by most people and even Nintendo themselves. The game is extremely generous with its gacha mechanics and the gameplay is hella fun for a mobile game, along with having a genuinely good story. I genuinely wish it was given a legitimate chance.

Man, I miss that game...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

DL's biggest issue was probably timing. Coming out after the Switch started taking off (an event that gave Nintendo corporate the power to move away from heavy mobile experiments they reluctantly did after the Wii U's failure) put it in an odd place to begin with, but the end of the 3DS meant that the best venue for a the series to do a modest, low cost debut on mainline hardware was gone. A digital only Switch game always a hypothetical possibility but Nintendo's continuing mobile interest has only been with preexisting franchises like Animal Crossing and Mario Kart, and it could have been that an original IP like Dragalia Lost's best chance for a mainline port was if it was inexpensive enough, and a Switch version may have been seen as not in the cards for that very reason.

 

[Quillion]

...an original IP like Dragalia Lost's best chance for a mainline port was if it was inexpensive enough, and a Switch version may have been seen as not in the cards for that very reason.

I hate how EPD nowadays largely limits themselves to games that need physical releases rather than use the eShop to deliver games of more varied sizes and therefore varied budgets.

EPD's "experimental teams" (Groups 4 and 7) could take heavy advantage of the Switch's handheld niche, but they seem mostly dead in this era.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly, I think Dragalia's biggest issue was actually the rights.

Cygames being involved made everything legally rigid. Ports can't happen unless all parties sign off on it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Honestly, I think Dragalia's biggest issue was actually the rights.

Cygames being involved made everything legally rigid. Ports can't happen unless all parties sign off on it.

If that's the case, there might be hope given Granblue Fantasy getting console games (keyword: MIGHT).

 

[Quillion]

Honestly, I think Dragalia's biggest issue was actually the rights.

Cygames being involved made everything legally rigid. Ports can't happen unless all parties sign off on it.

I don't know. Since about the Gamecube era at the latest, Nintendo seems to keep a very strict hold on any IP made by and made for them. "Geno" complications don't happen anymore with Nintendo.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I've never much cared for some of the colors/aesthetic choices in the NES version of Mario 3. The SNES All Stars version looks fantastic and feels incredibly timeless, but the original just feels a bit blah whenever I play it. A lot of this is rooted in my sense that 16 bit visuals have aged better than arguably any other video game generation; to the point where I'm glad indie titles are more often utilizing that style as the retro aesthetic of choice than 8 bit graphics again. Even the DKC trilogy and Mario RPG, both of which get a lot of grief for the 3D renders appearing dubious now, I'd argue still work if played on anything besides an HD television. Go through Diddy's Kong Quest on a Switch Lite and it still looks great.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I've never much cared for some of the colors/aesthetic choices in the NES version of Mario 3. The SNES All Stars version looks fantastic and feels incredibly timeless, but the original just feels a bit blah whenever I play it. A lot of this is rooted in my sense that 16 bit visuals have aged better than arguably any other video game generation; to the point where I'm glad indie titles are more often utilizing that style as the retro aesthetic of choice than 8 bit graphics again. Even the DKC trilogy and Mario RPG, both of which get a lot of grief for the 3D renders appearing dubious now, I'd argue still work if played on anything besides an HD television. Go through Diddy Kong's Quest on a Switch Lite and it still looks great.

I disagree on All-Stars - SMAS is one of the ugliest Nintendo games IMO - sprites that small weren't meant to be shaded or outlined.

That being said, mid 90s pre-rendered CGI (and not just Nintendo's - I'm also talking Vectorman, Rise of the Robots, Sonic 3D Blast, e.t.c.) games have aged shockingly well, arguably better than CGI films and cartoons from around the same time and after like Toy Story; The Lawnmower Man; and Reboot, and even some 32-bit-era, GBA, and DS games with prerendered graphics. Hell, just compare the DKC games to their GBA ports.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Recently watched a retrospective about the Yoshi series it made me realize that it might be one of the subtler victims of Nintendo failing to properly balance its experiments vs. rehashes. While the series rarely ever hit extreme lows (and its budgets were modest enough that likely none of the games lost money) it is one that felt like it often failed to live up to its potential for a long time,.

Yoshi's Story is probably the easiest to defend. While the focus on an easygoing time and very storybook art style was likely anathemic to some of the then audience getting sick of Nintendo's family friendly focus, it has aged reasonably well and for the time was a genuinely interesting attempt at a Yoshi title emphasizing replay. And given the company's propensity for second games in series doing their own thing (Mario 2, Zelda II, etc) the followup to Yoshi's Island being a quirky title like Story was fairly harmless in the grand scheme.

However after this things went a bit wayward. While the SMW2 remake could be understood as introducing that game to a new audience, Topsy Turvy and Touch & Go suffered from the DK mid aughts problem of being gimmick games that were made into the series' main output. A side releases between stronger entries they made sense, but as the only new releases 1998-2005, they amounted to little more than their core concepts; wacky projects that happened to have Yoshi in them. Comparisons to Kirby Tilt & Tumble do the former no favors given that series still had consistent mainline output (and KT&T being a better game) while the latter is hard to not see as something that would be a cheap/free mobile release now.

After this the arrival of Yoshi's Island DS & New Island proved to be mixed blessings. While the were finally core platformers that ended up being decently solid, neither fundamentally seemed to take the series in particularly interesting direction. The first one's focus on the babies was novel, but given Baby Mario wasn't the strongest element of the 1995 game to begin with, building on that led to an experience that while interesting at points, often felt like it lacked depth. The second was a good game, however it lacked even the exploration of the multiple baby mechanic in DS, leading to a solid yet unspectacular title.

Moreover, many of the Yoshi releases were falling into the trap of feeling infantile in tone and aesthetics. The series was always meant to be a family friendly franchise that kids could get into; its just that first game still felt restrained in being colorful while not obnoxiously kiddy for most of it. Even Story could at least be forgiven in Nintendo initially indulging an art style to make the game stand out against the 2D games still prominent in the era. Afterwards though, "baby's first platformer" felt almost literally true in some cases, as between the new Yoshi voice, reuse of Story visual elements without genuinely evolving them, and losing so much subtlety in use of colors/designs? It contributed (unfairly) to a sense of shallow appeal with the IP, even when there were games that had relatively strong cores like DS and New Island.

All that made Woolly World such a triumph. The level design/puzzles felt evolved, the baby Mario aspect was finally moved away from again, and the visual tone was creative, warm, & inviting without going over the top in trying to appeal to young kids. The physical textures for each level are brilliantly utilized, each unique theme fits the level perfectly, and the unlocked Yoshi's are so well done it incentivizes unlocking them (and therefore completion) even more. Good Feel made a game that truly built on the the original game, gave it a unique graphical identity, & even managed better pacing/fair challenge than the 1995 title did. It was the sequel the series desperately needed for so long and never got until then.

Its incredible success does make Crafted World a bit of a downgrade, though to its credit, most of its issues seem to lie in a clear change in direction during production than its core ideas being necessarily bad. Visually it looks fantastic, level motifs are creative, and even the boss battles stand out; its just undermined by inconsistent success in intertwining relatively easy levels with rewarding exploration/completion. A clearly flawed game, though unlike the franchise's previous mixed efforts it doesn't drown in its gimmick nor play it too terribly safe most of the time.

Basically I'd say its a series that like DK and Star Fox, has greatly suffered from a lack of consistently strong in house developer and a focused effort in evolving what the IP is best at. Good Feel's emergence has been a relief and with any luck they might be the group to keep it a relatively strong sub-brand, but time will tell.

 

[Quillion]

Recently watched a retrospective about the Yoshi series

This one? I'd like to watch it but the fact that it's an hour long is a bit of a turn-off.

Anyway, partly in response to your statements of gimmick/rehash balance, I do think Nintendo's brand of "gimmick sequels" is at least an inherently good idea. For the most part, it manages to make each installment feel unique without straying too far from a given series' core appeal.

It's mainly in the execution of the idea where the flaws show. Sometimes they focus too much on the gimmick like Skyward Sword, sometimes they don't focus enough like in Pokémon XY and (U)SM, and sometimes the balance is there but other factors detract from it, such as a lack of polish in Mario Sunshine or Pokémon SV, or a lack of content like Kirby Star Allies early on.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This one? I'd like to watch it but the fact that it's an hour long is a bit of a turn-off.

Anyway, partly in response to your statements of gimmick/rehash balance, I do think Nintendo's brand of "gimmick sequels" is at least an inherently good idea. For the most part, it manages to make each installment feel unique without straying too far from a given series' core appeal.

It's mainly in the execution of the idea where the flaws show. Sometimes they focus too much on the gimmick like Skyward Sword, sometimes they don't focus enough like in Pokémon XY and (U)SM, and sometimes the balance is there but other factors detract from it, such as a lack of polish in Mario Sunshine or Pokémon SV, or a lack of content like Kirby Star Allies early on.

The funny is that I don't even indulging strongly in gimmicks in necessarily the worst thing for a series, but its one best done with entries that are getting consistent releases to begin with so the IP isn't be defined as a roulette wheel to a general audience. Kirby went through a big experimental phase post Kirby 64, but was still getting stuff like Nightmare in Dream Land, Amazing Mirror, & Squeak Squad while also doing touch screen focused titles and spin-offs like Air Ride. A Donkey Kong series that was doing Konga or Jungle Beat between DKCR like releases circa the 2000s would have put the brand in a much healthier place than it ended up being.

I mean Epic Yarn in 2010 and Return to Dream Land in 2011 might be the most triumphant example of a very unconventional Kirby game and a traditional one both succeeding on their own merits and demonstrating just how strong the brand was and much range it really had.

 

[Oracle Link]

So we Finnaly get new Zelda Action Figures!
For now its only BOTW Link and BOTW Zelda!
If you like these designs pick em up i will probably wait for green hatted Links and Toon Zelda/ Tetra
Also Obviously i Hope Hope Hope we get Octorocks, Moblins, Impa and tons of other unique Characters!

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

-If a Nintendo ''Leaker'' says the sky is blue, get another source. They're almost always wrong on every single thing.

-There's no such thing as a bad direct, it's either things you like or things you don't.

-I miss when Nintendo games got decent ports of EA games. Those were a victim of EA sucking major ass.

 

[fogbadge]

-If a Nintendo ''Leaker'' says the sky is blue, get another source. They're almost always wrong on every single thing.

that one’s just a fact

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

Even at the best Illumination can do, I wish Dreamworks was the studio that adapted Mario instead. We'd likely keep Jack Black as Bowser and Charlie Day as Luigi, thanks to his work on Kung Fu Panda, and the Lego license being handed to them a few years back, so the supposed "best things about the movie" wouldn't change.

Oh, and another thing about the movie. March 10th, 2023 was RIGHT THERE for a theatrical release, and you guys chose to put it 3-4 weeks after that! This is the next "Sonic not promoting Sonic" over here.

But in the gaming sense? I first got into owning a Game Boy because I wanted to own a GBA Video cartridge. But hey, at least I fell in love with Mole Mania in the end.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The re-releases of Skyward Sword and Metroid Prime, and specifically their various included control options leave me optimistic that future remakes/ports will embrace player preferences; specifically that DS/3DS releases will re-released with traditional methods to experience them. The modern gaming landscape (including the Switch) has moved on from Nintendo's former insistence in certain player controls, and we're all the better for it.

 

[Quillion]

The re-releases of Skyward Sword and Metroid Prime, and specifically their various included control options leave me optimistic that future remakes/ports will embrace player preferences; specifically that DS/3DS releases will re-released with traditional methods to experience them. The modern gaming landscape (including the Switch) has moved on from Nintendo's former insistence in certain player controls, and we're all the better for it.

Frankly, what the next Nintendo console needs is a dual screen option on top of every option the Switch had so that we can get the full DS experience for those who want it.

 

[CastletonSnob]

Remember the GameCube and Wii U days, when being a Nintendo fan felt like being a Boston Red Sox fan before 2004? I kind of miss that. There's just something about being a fan of an underdog.

I don't know, maybe I'm just weird.

 

[Demon Dragon]

Nah, I get your point. There's something more appealing about liking something the mainstream dismisses as "lame" or "nerdy"

 

[Quillion]

Remember the GameCube and Wii U days, when being a Nintendo fan felt like being a Boston Red Sox fan before 2004? I kind of miss that. There's just something about being a fan of an underdog.

I don't know, maybe I'm just weird.

I think if Nintendo was actually pushing boundaries and seeing more quiet successes during those two eras in their own right, they would be a good kind of underdog.

Instead, both of those eras were marred by struggling to make new IPs and failing to balance courting newcomers with appealing to established fans of their old IPs. So I'd say those two deserved to be flop eras (as good as a few games in both are).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I really do wish Nintendo would branch into horror a bit more.

I know it goes against their family friendly image, but I really do want them to have a standout horror IP. Eternal Darkness was neat, but I'm a bit baffled at how they treated Fatal Frame. You had horror royalty in the palm of your hand and you just squander it. I know Nintendo doesn't actually own the IP as a whole, but they do own rights to some of the games. You'd think they'd try for a Bayonetta like partnership where Fatal Frame is an exclusive franchise for them.

 

[UserKev]

I really do wish Nintendo would branch into horror a bit more.

I know it goes against their family friendly image, but I really do want them to have a standout horror IP. Eternal Darkness was neat, but I'm a bit baffled at how they treated Fatal Frame. You had horror royalty in the palm of your hand and you just squander it. I know Nintendo doesn't actually own the IP as a whole, but they do own rights to some of the games. You'd think they'd try for a Bayonetta like partnership where Fatal Frame is an exclusive franchise for them.

Another theory, Nintendo seems to be comfortable with horror elements in moderation. Majora's Mask, Metroid, Mother. They may not find the idea unique or worth investing into. Nintendo is witty like that.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Really wish Nintendo hadn't ended balance patches for Smash Ultimate so early. It's been evident for a while now that Steve and Kazuya could use at least a little toning down. And there are still characters who underperform by a lot and needed more buffs. And now, our hand is forced to ban Steve at most tournaments because a tech that pushes him over the edge was found. Maybe if he had been toned down more, a ban wouldn't have been necessary. Because I don't think it's just the tech, but the tech in conjunction with the insane amounts of reward Steve gets from it.

I really hope Nintendo comes in with a hotfix to at least remove the tech. And it sucks that with how Nintendo is, there's so little certainty that they will. Most other competitive games always find themselves with the needed support.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Another theory, Nintendo seems to be comfortable with horror elements in moderation. Majora's Mask, Metroid, Mother. They may not find the idea unique or worth investing into. Nintendo is witty like that.

I don't think that's their logic as they wouldn't delve into the franchises to begin with.

 

[UserKev]

I don't think that's their logic as they wouldn't delve into the franchises to begin with.

Nintendo never really delved into horror tho. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but from your thoughts on the topic, it was basically the benefit of the doubt. Nintendo most likely gave it a try and brushed it off like it was never supposed to happen.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

You know, I've been thinking about the nature of the old libraries from NSO and while I do think in many respects its not an ideal model (especially with the arguably overpriced offerings of the expansion pack) I do think it has contributed to Nintendo being strong at its own video game cultural continuity.

What I mean by that term is a sense having a strong thread of history from company's (and specifically its game series) past into the present through various elements. The obvious stuff is continual new releases (Mario games in the 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, now), but even things like ports, cameos, just general references are things that can still bring semi-relevance to old series. F-Zero has unfortunately been largely untouched with any new games, however appearances in Smash or tracks in Mario Kart essentially allow that franchise to still resonate even without new entries; the gap between what it was and what it is now is still bridged by the awareness new fans get via such media.

The numerous Nintendo libraries now on offer from the online service I think contribute that significantly as well, possibly even more than they would as Virtual Console esque paid downloads (even I might personally prefer that model). Because there is no direct cost to new fans playing such games beyond the initial fee, its an easy environment for them to try and experience older titles that they might otherwise be uninterested in. They get NSO and/or the Expansion Pack for Mario Kart, but then get curious about these retro games, and get to learn about them in a comfortable context via stuff like the rewind function. Its a structure that essentially allows for really knowing that the timeline of Nintendo is since its arcade days and giving a better appreciation for what it is now.

The reason while I think this particular phenomenon is important is because cultural continuity is not commonly maintained in lot of the video game landscape. Sega has had its identity and associated timeline so inconsistently defined by different consoles and different starts/stops for their own first party series, that stuff like Sonic ends up being the one of the few IP's that has an international through-line in the past 30 years. Certain franchises of theirs ceased to have releases, only continued in certain regions, or simply went into outright hibernation for a while without consistent media like a Sega Smash or Racing title to give it occasional prominence in its shout outs. A lack of more frequent quality compilations and ports of Master System, Saturn, Dreamcast, and arcade games means that its a company that too often feels ill defined unless your a dedicated fan seeking out older games via collecting or emulation.

And even Sega is still lucky in comparison to the likes of Atari or the various microcomputer games in the 80s, both of which also struggle at times to have a pertinence to the modern scene because the proverbial vehicles to deliver them to new fans are too niche or outside the typical habits of contemporary audiences to experience them. I think one of the reasons the pop history of video games feels so defined by the post 1983 crash and by American or Japanese emphasis is because the lack of cultural continuity with Atari or the British home computer scene has created a disconnect to fans about such contexts.

TL;DR, while I have many issues with Nintendo's take on legacy content (especially in light of what the modder and Steam Deck generation is capable of doing) I do think it (in combination with its some of its crossover series) has value in maintaining a connection with the company's past that can all too often be lost with the way the industry is.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

On a completely off-topic note, but related to the above post, it baffles me how Sega are so good at preserving MD games, but ALWAYS drop the ball on everything else - once-cult-classics like Dynamite Headdy and Ristar have been transformed into household names by Sega's willingness to slap them onto every console imaginable in massive compilations for budget price - on the other hand, Master System games have never received a compilation for consoles, are chosen weirdly selectively for their rereleases, and more often than not get snubbed for their inferior Game Gear ports; the Dreamcast selection on Steam is extremely limited, hasn't dropped in price since launch (and in fact received a permanent price boost), and uses the inferior DX/Battle ports of the Sonic Adventures; the Saturn is treated as if it were a plug & play that could only run Nights into Dreams; the SG1000, Mark 3, and the Pico line may as well not exist (Understandably in the case of the latter though, given how niche a market retro preschool media fans are and how tricky the Storyware is to emulate); and everything from after Sega entered the multiplatform market needs to get a fancy remake instead of a straight port for some reason.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With Sega I wonder if its a combination of certain source codes being lost and them simply wanting to maximize profitability with certain releases. Master System lacking greater value in the US and Japan limiting Sega's interest in doing more with re-releases and Saturn seen as being too costly to emulate/re-release would sadly enough, not surprise me.

Still doesn't excuse the lack of better Dreamcast releases though.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Really I think the truth is the majority of older sega fans only came about for the genesis and bailed as soon as the PS1 came out lol. I feel like most people aren't even aware the master system exists, and sure as hell nobody knows about the SG1000

Also the Saturn was the video game hardware equivalent of running a car on duct tape and a prayer, I think it's hard to port games from there

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Well the issue of Sega has never quite been an outright lack of popularity in most regions as much as its been selective success in various places. America is defined by big success with the Genesis and moderate sales of the Dreamcast; Europe by incredible strong numbers of the Master System and (to a lesser degree) the Megadrive, Brazil by Tec Toy's Master System being beloved/supported to this day, and Japan by solid standing of the Saturn paired with iconic status of Sega arcades. But it was it never able to get big consistent success and even lacked a strong handheld to get it through leaner years like Nintendo did.

That has led to compilations/ports being in an odd financial place of lacking international appeal because there is no one console that endured everywhere. Genesis has gotten the most support because the sheer popularity numbers in North America and Europe mean its got the least risk, but beyond that there's probably a lack of incentive to do much else without keeping costs down. Moreover because the many franchises that have popularity in some regions but not others means its harder to lure in certain fans to play older entries of their favorite series outside very select examples like Sonic, Phantasy Star, & Puyo Puyo. Essentially from the perspective of inexpensive re-releases/hardware of older games to sell all over the world, it has plenty of examples that are regionally popular, but that many that are internationally safe.

 

[Quillion]

You know, there's been a lot of talk that the main Pokémon games need to slow their release schedule since they've been feeling lacking in content and/or unpolished.

Given that all of the non-Kart Mario spin-offs feel so meager nowadays, perhaps even Mario needs to cool it on spin-offs. Not to say eliminate them altogether, but maybe just prune it down to just Kart and Party, sad as that may be.
----
Speaking of Mario spin-offs, I don't understand why people care about certain ones so much (like the RPGs and even some Sports games like Golf and Strikers). They're just spin-offs that minorly tide over until the next main Mario game.

Don't get me wrong, the spin-offs are fun little arcadey experiences, but I don't understand why they need to be treated just as representative of the Mario franchise as the main games and/or need to be hyper-content-stuffed.