The NEW Yoshi Matchup Thread V2|Week 10 - Zelda

[bigman40]

Lol, I think we really need to figure out how the priority works on the egg roll. It seems to be alot different when bouncing. Also, I guess I can agree. As I mentioned before, I don't have much exp in this matchup.

 

[Ryusuta]

about AS spam:
- ftilt and jabs and bairs and the roll cancel it at low percents
- The roll cancels it at medium percents
and at high percents yoshi is just going to have to shield.

Are you talking about Egg Roll? And if so, do you mean damage, or the AS charge? Because as far as I've seen (and I just tested it to make sure), Egg Roll always cancels out a fully-charged Aura Sphere.

 

[Furbs]

yea the eggroll
typically when the lucario is at high percents (over 110 or so i believe)
the aura sphere can break through the roll. (fully charged)

the reason aura sphere can out prioritize it at those percents is because it actually grows in size and priority. its a really nasty move at those percents. T_T

Edit: bigman, the roll gains more priority the faster it's going (Momentum) when yoshi turns or is bouncing its a pathetic move
A rolling eggroll does 12% per hit whereas a bouncing or turning egg does 4%.

 

[Mmac]

I think I'm going to go with Furbs here, but I want to see if a few more people agrees before I move on.

 

[Ryusuta]

Ah, I gotcha now. Yeah, once Lucario gets to high percents, a fully-charge AS can indeed break through the Egg Roll.

 

[bigman40]

I know that, but I've seen some funny moments where the egg roll continues even though a relatively strong attack tries to hit it. (this is when it's bouncing)

 

[Furbs]

lol, idk its a weird move, perhaps upward momentum?

also we need a M2K of yoshis T_T

 

[Mmac]

I could be if I wasn't stuck here....

 

[Furbs]

lol, mmac btw, could you send me a link to a vid or directions on that 0-death on falco?

i wanna use it on sethlon as we're hanging out friday

 

[Mmac]

I don't have a video.

But it's really not that hard or complicated, it's just Chaingrab to the ledge, then Runoff Fair on release as soon as possible. The only tricky part is near the ledge, you have to be pretty quick or he'll grab it.

 

[Furbs]

oh ok, i thought it was like marths fthrow fthrow spike lolnvm

 

[Mmac]

Well I'm just going to update it with Furbs imput on Lucario.

I'll offer my input on Yoshi vs Lucario

One of the people I consistently play out here, Rocket Trainer (On Houston's Crew) mains Lucario so I can put in my experience versus him. I also played around with Lucario in training mode just to check out his moves (what has lag ect.)



Lucario is a pretty tough match for yoshi just because of how versatile a character he is. He has a good air game, good kill moves (at 100% or so), decent weight, a good projectile, good range, and good priority. Oh and did I mention he has a counter that kills too? Yoshi Struggles a lot with this matchup, not to say it isn't winnable in fact its quite far from that, but it's a match that takes a LOT of patience.

At low percents watch out for lucario's forward B because he can chaingrab yoshi up to 30% . And at high percents watch out for lucario in general, his dair alone does around 20% in damage :O omg!!!!11!!1!

Now lets take a look at Some of lucarios Kill moves at higher percents (120-150ish these are all fresh moves of course)

-fully charged aura sphere
-forward B (if DI'd wrong)
-Fsmash
-Fair
-Bair
-Dsmash
-Usmash
-Uair
-Down B
-Dair

OMG!!!! thats quite a lot of options

So the point here is to kill lucario asap!!
unfortunately that's quite a bit of a difficult task because of his weight and yoshi's lackluster variety of kill moves

-Fsmash kills at around 115-125%, and at that point lucario can out range fsmash with some of his moves. One thing I've found successful is thowing an egg OVER Lucario so that he instinctively counters (MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HIT AND IT GOES HIS DIRECTION) and punishing his counter with an Fsmash.

-Upsmash kills at around 130%, although if you're underneath lucario most of the time they'll spam dair which out prioritizes the upsmash

-Uair is a blessing in the matchup killing at around 120%, "but dear Furbs" you may ask "you silly person you're coming from the same direction as when you upsmash!!!". That is true, but the two things that make this different is that Uair BARELY out-ranges lucarios dair, also what I usually do (sense the spacing is tough) is double jumping when lucario uses dair, tanking the hit and THEN uairing!!!

Now here's some things you should keep in mind on this matchup:
- If you spam eggs lucario can do two things. He can either counter (he moves forward quite a bit when he does this so he can use it to approach), or He'll start charging an aura sphere and power shield the eggs. How to solve: If lucario uses counter to approach you can actually use this as an advantage by power shielding when he reaches you and punishing with a jab combo, if lucario starts charging an aura sphere that means you're gonna have to start approaching .

- When approaching bairs are very effective, although he can grab you out of it it's best to use it to pressure and then use tilts when you land.

- Lucario's moves stay out for quite a while so it takes a while to get the timing right for spot dodging.

- In the air lucarios moves have a bit of ending lag, you HAVE to capitalize on this, it makes the match a LOT easier.

- Also pivot grab is your BEST FRIEND!!!!11!1! it outranges most of lucarios moves and can help setup for a kill.

- Lucario's recovery is kinda bad, Up-b doesn't have too much range on it, doesn't hurt people (Very good to know especially if you're edgehogging), and has start-up lag. In short lucario while off the stage isn't too much of a challenge to edgeguard. although with lucarios superior air game it's HIGHLY ADVISED to be careful, just spam eggs, or edgeguard smart.
lets look at things in terms of speed up close.

Yoshi's jab beats Lucarios
-jab (if timed right lucario can grab)
-ftilt
-utilt
-dtilt
-fsmash
-dsmash
-and usmash
so jabbing is a MUST

Yoshi's ftilt beats
-fsmash
-dsmash
-upsmash
-ftilt
-dtilt
-nair
-fair

Yoshi's utilt beats
-fsmash
-dsmash
-upsmash
-ftilt
-dtilt
and cancels lucarios utilt

Yoshi's Dtilt beats
-fsmash
-dsmash
-usmash
-ftilt
-dtilt
(haven't checked utilt lol i 4got, but it should beat it or cling with it)

Yoshi's Fsmash beats
-Fsmash
-Dsmash
-USmash

Yoshi's Dsmash beats
-Fsmash
-Dsmash
-Usmash

Yoshi's Usmash beats
-Fsmash
-Dsmash
-Usmash
-It also out prioritizes utilt so if you hyphon smash to approach you should be fine in that case

so as you can see the only thing up close Lucario can do is Jab, and even then your jab beats it. Not to mention that Jabbing Lucario; because of his weight/physics can set up for a grab at certain percents.

JAB HELPS A LOT!!!!!!



Overall: 4:6 lucarios favor
This match IS tough, but one thing you need to know is how to punish lucario. He has quite a few moves that leave him vulnerable, and given the speed of yoshi's up close game (u-tilt, jabs, and f-tilt) It's really easy to punish him. Don't be afraid to edge guard, in fact DO IT if it can kill him at a low percent and prevent him from doing around 16% damage with each hit . Patience is key in this match, and knowing when to approach and punish makes this match MUCH easier. DO NOT expect an easy win. go out and pwn!

Seriously going into training mode and trying out his moves helped me A LOT because I know when he lags, and what moves to punish

Next Stop, Link!

The Regular one....

 

[Furbs]

Lol when the tier list came out i saw link at the bottom so i figured i'd use him for low tiers, tried him out for a bit, dropped him and decided to go yoshi all the way :D.

I don't have a lot of link practice, most of the links around here aren't too great :/
although gnes (on texas power rankings) picked up link and i played around with him for a bit,
not enough to write a matchup discussion on but at the tournament this saturday I'm gonna be getting a lot of link friendlies with him in.

but one thing i do remember is if i fsmashed at around 80% near the ledge he was a goner LOL!!!

 

[Timbers]

Fair I guess could gimp, but it shouldn't ever be outright killing you. O,o
Also, Dsmash, Usmash, and Double Team are rarely used by the common, household Lucario. It's generally believed to be way too slow for a counter, as well as giving most opponents enough time to shield the hit. I'm not sure if Yoshi's slower shield is able to dodge the hit, though. Someone should check. <<

To add onto this, Lucario will be primarily killing with uair, fsmash, aurasphere. Bair and dair are somewhat common as well.

If Yoshi is in range to connect with his tilts, the Lucario screwed up.

How? Yoshi's ftilt and dtilt are like same range as our own (possibly greater?), and have plenty of speed on them. That made no sense.

fair can kill at high percents actually, and is pretty good too T_T
also the lucario i talked to last night (Milln) said that U-smash was an excellent move vs yoshi (he has quite a bit of yoshi exp.)
yoshi's shield dosen't come out any slower, its the ending lag that makes it slow, and the roll.

At like, 150%, and fresh, and on the edge...it MIGHT KILL Yoshi. However Lucario's fair is easily one of his most used moves, so saying it's ever fresh is just fantasy. Fair won't kill.
Usmash is generally something I enjoy using against characters with poor aerial movement and can be trapped easily by the lingering hitbox. With Yoshi's highspeed movement, it's not something I'd generally want to use like, ever, but he plays Yoshis more frequently than I do I'd assume.

-bair actually works quite well to approach, because lucario has startup lag you can time yoshi's bair to hit lucario when the attack ends (and yes I used this in game too.)

Bair approach is annoying, but do be careful with it. Fair can outprioritize your bair (and if fair can, then ftilt should do the same) and Luc can drop shield into utilt if you decided to DI behind him.

It's really just safer for Yoshi to play defense in this match, but that's just how I see it.

-and Eggroll is actually pretty good at approaching f-smash and f-tilt (eggroll wtf!?)

- On fsmash eggroll beats the start-up frames and ending frames obviously, when the attack is out (before and after the blue aura is out) it cancels. when the aura is out it out prioritizes the eggroll. however in the time it takes to cross FD in the egg and the time it takes for lucarios fsmash to come out (we tried this too) the roll usually cancels. the lucario player needs to time it just right considering you're in a bad spot if you cancel the attack, yoshi is pretty much lagless and can punish you sense everything he has up close is once again faster.

Now THIS is theory. Eggroll to approach fsmash/ftilt? lol. You guys must have amazing mindreading ability. Also, fsmash isn't used to stop like, any approach. Like it was said however many times in this thread, Luc's fsmash has considerable startup. It's just a good tool for brickwalling, it's not going to be thrown out mindlessly when Yoshi is in a position to eggroll and actually hit us.

Fsmash in general isn't something I want to use in this match anyways. A character like Yoshi has enough aerial movement to get around fsmash and punish us. He's one of the few characters that can actually succeed in punishing a spaced, yet whiffed, fsmash.

Ftilt and aurasphere does it's job in playing the spacing game in this matchup anyways.

 

[Bwett]

I've been playing Link alittle lately...he's awesome, I love it. I think I might make him a secondary lol

 

[Furbs]

Now THIS is theory. Eggroll to approach fsmash/ftilt? lol. You guys must have amazing mindreading ability. Also, fsmash isn't used to stop like, any approach. Like it was said however many times in this thread, Luc's fsmash has considerable startup. It's just a good tool for brickwalling, it's not going to be thrown out mindlessly when Yoshi is in a position to eggroll and actually hit us.

Fsmash in general isn't something I want to use in this match anyways. A character like Yoshi has enough aerial movement to get around fsmash and punish us. He's one of the few characters that can actually succeed in punishing a spaced, yet whiffed, fsmash.

Ftilt and aurasphere does it's job in playing the spacing game in this matchup anyways.

timber, it's not theory it's fact, and the fact is if lucario fsmashshes or ftilts when yoshi uses eggroll to approach it has a pretty good chance of canceling or going through. and how is it mindreading? if yoshi uses eggroll then lucario is going to be the one reacting. what he does i don't know but fsmash and ftit aren't good ideas to handle it.

you may not use fsmash to stop an approach but read the post i made. I NEVER SAID always use eggroll, i used eggroll to point out the fact that yoshi does have options against fsmash.

Kitamerby was arguing that if a lucario spams ftilt, fsmash, and AS yoshi has pretty much no options. I never said it was all lucario has, it was a counter argument. read my other posts and move on lucario matchup discussion is over.

 

[Shiri]

Enough about Lucario, nobody plays him anyway.

Now, about this Link kid.

You all can expect a few pages worth of stuff from me regarding this matchup.

I'm not letting this matchup getting much closer to neutral without a fight! :D

 

[Ryusuta]

You'll get a fight from me! I've been just WAITING for this match-up to get talked about.

I would argue (and very likely WILL argue) a dead-even match-up between the two of them.

I have played some of the better Link players out there, and have never seen him particularly dominant in this match-up. It's not to say that Link fails against Yoshi, but I think it was absolutely laughable that he was at one point considered Yoshi's hardest match-up.

Link's got large disjointed hitboxes (Z air and tilts, specifically) and a spam game on Yoshi, but conversely, Yoshi has INFINITELY better pokes, a much more adaptable grab game, about a BILLION times better of a recovery, a better chasing game, and much quicker movement speed, both on the ground and in the air.

I would totally call this match completely neutral without a moment's hesitation.

 

[Gindler]

When I used link for a while I couldn't help but notice how effective walking and throwing out the first slash of a Fsmash was, and since link's walking and running speed are almost exactly the same he's not losing much speed just walking around, cancelling laggy attacks with bombs was one of my favorite things (grounded UpB, Dair come to mind the most). Then again I never played a yoshi as link, I only used him against snakes before I got better at the matchup with yoshi.

 

[Ryusuta]

I think jab canceling into a forward smash is an even cooler technique, personally.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I kinda play Link...kinda.

His Z-air out ranges us, but we all knew that.
Bombs are >.>
and arrows are manageable...but harder in my opinion than Toons due to the speed.
Gale boomerang isn't much though, and it's more effective from my opinion against other characters.


Watch out for Arrow cancels, as Link can use certain moves, then end it by shooting an arrow at you as well.

Think is, Link has enough considerable lag, then anything that misses....is easily messed up with.
Links recovery is so poor, if by some chance you hit him and he DI's upwards to the corners, From my perspective, eggs are great, use Eggs while approaching him in the air, With Links poor recovery, taking any damage that increase your Knock back is like "AAAAH".
If you ever hit him off stage....he's dead, 80% of the time.

Though a smart Link should be able to space so that his lag is less noticable leaving with smaller windows of opportunity. Link can camp better than you can, but that doesn't really matter as well... Links Projectiles are easy to get past if thats All he's doing.

6:4 Yoshi - Neutral - 4:6 Link
>.> I think thats like the bar right now Links not good enough to be higher than 6:4, and your not good enough against him to be 4:6... ( I messed up the order of that didn't I).

I think neutral really, experience is key right?

 

[Furbs]

You'll get a fight from me! I've been just WAITING for this match-up to get talked about.

I would argue (and very likely WILL argue) a dead-even match-up between the two of them.

I have played some of the better Link players out there, and have never seen him particularly dominant in this match-up. It's not to say that Link fails against Yoshi, but I think it was absolutely laughable that he was at one point considered Yoshi's hardest match-up.

Link's got large disjointed hitboxes (Z air and tilts, specifically) and a spam game on Yoshi, but conversely, Yoshi has INFINITELY better pokes, a much more adaptable grab game, about a BILLION times better of a recovery, a better chasing game, and much quicker movement speed, both on the ground and in the air.

I would totally call this match completely neutral without a moment's hesitation.

for now i'm pretty inclined to go with this.
lol when you're going even with someone on the power rankings i think theres something about the matchup :O.

I'm gonna get a lot of link games in at the next tournament though so expect a response from me on sunday or so about it.

 

[Timbers]

timber, it's not theory it's fact, and the fact is if lucario fsmashshes or ftilts when yoshi uses eggroll to approach it has a pretty good chance of canceling or going through. and how is it mindreading? if yoshi uses eggroll then lucario is going to be the one reacting. what he does i don't know but fsmash and ftit aren't good ideas to handle it.

you may not use fsmash to stop an approach but read the post i made. I NEVER SAID always use eggroll, i used eggroll to point out the fact that yoshi does have options against fsmash.

Kitamerby was arguing that if a lucario spams ftilt, fsmash, and AS yoshi has pretty much no options. I never said it was all lucario has, it was a counter argument. read my other posts and move on lucario matchup discussion is over.

Luc's ftilt startup is considerably faster than eggroll and outprioritizes. Not sure which would win out if a Yoshi tried to eggroll Lucario right as Luc fsmashed at tipper range. Point being, It is theory.

I was unaware that you were "counter-arguing" with Kita, so I'll leave it at that.

Enough about Lucario, nobody plays him anyway.

I think it's ****ing hilarious that you'd rather have a slew of inaccurate information in a viable tourney-character summary so you can hurry up and discuss one of the worse characters in the game.


Anyways, enjoy Link.

 

[Mmac]

Timber's, you do know that Yoshi isn't going to use Egg Roll point blank right? The startup has terrible priority to make it useful from that distance

 

[Ryusuta]

I think 80% is an exaggeration, Chrono, but you're right. Link's recovery really hurts him in this match-up, as well as the fact that he can't Gale Guard Yoshi in the slightest, giving him very few interception options of his own.

And in addition to the bad lag on a lot of his moves (which can be disguised by clever Link players), he can be horribly out-poked on the inside. And in spite of his Z air and great projectiles, it's not hard to get in there.

Link also doesn't have any impressive defense against Yoshi's biggest kill moves. His down air DOES beat Yoshi's up air, of course, but this isn't a solution for Link for a few reasons.

First, if he whiffs it, even if it's canceled, there's still a reasonable amount of ending lag on the move. All it takes is one single fake-out from Yoshi, and Link's in a world of hurt. Because Yoshi's up air is so much quicker than Link's down air, Link can't even perform the down air on reaction. When faced with a possible up air, the best he can do is see if the Yoshi is coming up after him and either dodge down or counter-attack. The problem is that if he's feinted by the Yoshi, both of those options leave Link vulnerable due to Yoshi superior maneuverability.

Link can also counter a whiffed forward smash or down B, but it's situational. For the most part, Yoshi generally doesn't have to worry about punishment from Link, While Link is dealing with significantly more start-up and lag time on a lot of attacks. Like I said, though, he does have the jab cancel, bomb cancel, and Z air to back him up, but those don't pose a significant threat to Yoshi.

In addition, Link's falling speed is a nightmare for him in this match-up. At low percentages, Yoshi can intentionally diminish his up smash and hit Link about three times with it safely. Link's only choice is to DI away and/or dodge down, since none of his air attacks cover him quickly enough from the onslaught. I've actually been toying around with this against some characters for awhile.

Yoshi's back air beats Link's arrow and boomerang, so it really comes down to Link's Z air and bombs to to most of his damage. I've actually been helped quite a bit against Z air by crawling on occasion, though this isn't fool-proof. Bombs are actually his greatest asset, as he has a wide variety of ATs that use them effectively. But remember that he still has to pull a bomb in order to use it. Yoshi's Egg Toss Slide helps against bombs and Z air quite a bit.

Personally, I wouldn't rule out Link only for one reason: variety. The one thing Link really has going for you is that a good Link never gets predictable at all, and is able to VERY cleverly disguise the lag of his moves, giving the illusion that there is none. Yoshi versus Link is an all-out match of creativity. Players that use both are able to be VERY creative, so it comes down to whose art project gets the blue ribbon.

As I said, Link's bad maneuverability, TERRIBLE recovery, unimpressive start-up and lag for his biggest killing moves (in particular, though not exclusively), and relative inability to counter Yoshi on reaction more than make up for his DH, spam, and reach advantages, in my estimation.

 

[sasook]

I know nothing about Yoshi, so I'll just post what I know about Link.

You guys already seem to know about how he spaces, primarily jabs, boomerang, and the zair. Some of you have stated that getting around the projectiles isn't too hard either. Among other things, you guys have listed the surface material to Link, which is fine, since most people don't realize his complexity.

Let me just cut to the chase. Link has the most advanced techniques in the game. He's also the fastest faller in the game (both good and bad attribute), so his SH aerial speeds up a lot.

DAC - sliding upsmash, pretty common

Bomb DAC - Link does a DAC with a bomb in hand

Bombsliding - 5 types.

• upthrow fakeout, in which he throws up but the bomb goes forward
  
  upthrow, in which he slides forward and throws upwards
  
  forward throw, it resembles a glide toss, he slides forward and throws forward
  
  reverse, in which he turns and slides backwards while throwing a bomb behind him
  
  reverse fakeout, in which he turns and slides backwards, but the bomb goes in the same direction as him as if he threw it forward

ZAC - Z drop, A Attack, Catch - Link performs aerials with a bomb in hand by dropping them and quickly doing an aerial to catch them

Arrow canceling - when landing, he shoots an arrow with no startup lag (can also be done in the reverse direction by holding back)

Pivot boosting - when used properly, this can reach the same speed as Link's full dash. While that might not say much at first, realize that any move can be used out of a pivot boost, whereas out of a dash, it cannot.

Craq walking - pivot boosting's cousin, this is jumping and holding back to gain momentum for the pivot boost. Can be used for sliding dsmashes, dtilts, fsmashes, and ftilts.

Double/Triple arrow - creates a wall of arrows in which Link shoots an arrow on the way up of his first jump, then can either choose to jump and shoot another rising arrow, fall and arrow cancel the third arrow, or just not shoot the second arrow at all and go straight to the arrow cancel.

Bombsmashing - doing an fsmash with a bomb in hand

Jab canceling - different from the normal jab canceling in which a player holds down after a jab to get it back. This involves doing usually 2 (but can be 1 as well) jabs, waiting for a slight moment, and performing a move. Moves usually done are grabs, dsmash, the spin attack, and the utilt.

Jab lock - Link's first jab if an opponent on the ground will cause them to go into a "forced get-up motion." Meaning, if he jabs them while on the ground, they can't get up with an A attack, nor roll, it will always be a neutral stand up. This can be done with arrows as well. If he continually does this jab by walking forward a bit in between each one, he forms a jab lock until he messes up or the opponent's damage gets too high or he runs out of room.

Gale guarding - Link throws the boomerang at the stage in order to use it's push/pull effects to push a recovering opponent away from the stage.

Zair edgeguard - Link can tether a ledge a total of 3 times before he must get on solid ground. Every time he tethers and pulls himself back, he gets invincibility frames. So, a Link hangs on the ledge, then when the time comes, moves slightly back and quickly regrabs the ledge with a tether pulling him in.

Boomerang canceling - not really used too often, highly situational. Some of you mentioned canceling the lag of moves with bombs, like the dair. The boomerang, if done right, also reduces this landing lag. The catching of the boomerang replaces the pulling the sword out of the ground, making the lag much less. Works for the dair and uair, but the uair auto cancels out of a full hop anyway.

Other things I thought of:

Double nair - as link does a nair, he can jump and immediately do another nair as well. While it may not sound like much, it holds lots of gimping properties on certain characters. I dunno if Yoshi gets his second jump back after being hit again, but if he doesn't, this may be something to watch out for.

DI + zair recovery - if Link is hit horizontally and holds down, no matter what his percentage, he will tether the ledge. It works even at 300%

Spiking - still an iffy issue on the Link boards, sometimes the dtilt will spike when Link faces forward. What's harder to land, but always spikes, is when Link's back is towards the opponent. The hitbox is inside his body, so he's at the ledge facing the stage, he might try to spike you.

Attacking out of shield - Link's upsmash and spin attack are commonly used out of shield, primarily while they wait for the opponent to get up from the ledge. They wait and shield, and if the opponent rolls or ledgehop attacks, it'll get shielded and a spin attack will be done. If the opponent jumps, an upsmash is done. Sometimes if a roll is done, the upsmash will be done anyway since it has a higher chance of hitting someone behind Link than the spin attack (sounds weird I know, but the spin attack is useless after the first few frames of it).

Hylian Shield - can block Yoshi's eggs. Don't be too concerned about it.

Grabs - don't underestimate Link's grabs. Most people think they are not used too often because of the lag if they miss. Smart Link players know when to grab, and space it very well so it reaches it's maximum distance. His grabs are underrated. Sometimes Link players will do a grab release to dsmash.

Bombshielding/bombrolling - Link holds a bomb in hand and waits for it to explode by either holding up a shield or rolling.

Bombplacing - Link can place bombs on ledges (only when on the ledge himself) and on platforms.

And finally....

The dair can be autocanceled when used at a very high height. Also, killing Link vertically is harder than killing horizontally.



Anyways, I hope that helps you guys.

 

[Ryusuta]

There is certainly no doubt as to Link's complexity. That's the exact reason why I'd have a hard time giving Yoshi anything more than a neutral in this match-up. Certainly, Link players have so many tools at their disposal - most of which are very complicated to use - that one could liken them to an architect. A master Link is a master of subtlety and finesse.

It doesn't make him unbeatable, but it does make him hard to second-guess.

I have to get going for work so I can't go point-for-point with the things you mentioned, but I should point out that this...

DI + zair recovery - if Link is hit horizontally and holds down, no matter what his percentage, he will tether the ledge. It works even at 300%

Doesn't make any difference when fighting Yoshi, since none of Yoshi's kill moves send Link at the lateral angle required for this to work (like Jigglypuff/Fox's down smashes do, for instance - Yoshi's down smash would probably do this, but it's not a kill move). I know you mentioned not fighting a lot of Yoshis, but I thought this bore mentioning. Z air edge guarding is completely ineffective in this match as well.

 

[Furbs]

I know nothing about Yoshi, so I'll just post what I know about Link.
blah blah blah (don't wanna take up a page)

thats why I dropped link, lol its so complicated O_o


I'll stick to my happy dinosaur

also it was only a matter of time b4 this was posted

 

[4Serial]

Yoshi's n-air is scary for Link

wait, Link can't galeguard Yoshi? O_o

Link's aerial maneuverability does suck, but his ground movement is decent. I wouldn't say it was horrible lol

I honestly would give this match up a neutral

no one has this exact match up experience because good Yoshis are as rare as good Links

 

[Snowstalker]

I think that the matchups discussions should go something like this:

Week 1 Dedede
Week 2 Lucario
Week 3 Link
Week 4 Snake
Week 5 Zelda
Week 6 Toon Link
Week 7 Captain Falcon
Week 8 Lucas
Week 9 Meta Knight
Week 10 Charizard

 

[sasook]

Yoshi's down smash would probably do this, but it's not a kill move.

My mistake, this was indeed the move I thought of when posting that. I didn't know it was not a KO move.

Z air edge guarding is completely ineffective in this match as well.

Yeah, the only instance I can think of is maybe the Yoshi tries to grab the ledge and does an aerial while getting close to attack Link, but Link has invincibility frames. It's iffy, probably wouldn't work.

thats why I dropped link, lol its so complicated O_o

lol, it's understandable

Yoshi's n-air is scary for Link

wait, Link can't galeguard Yoshi? O_o

What does his nair do? lol I really know next to nothing about Yoshi. And yeah, I thought Link could gale guard Yoshi, but apparently not. I'd like to know why.

 

[Tidycats29]

TBH from what i've read in these great inputs
seems more like 55:45 yoshi

i don't really think i can say anymore on this matter because mostly everything has been discussed

but doesn't Mr.Dino have CG on link
that's pretty easy to get him off stage followed by a Nair
then an edgeguard
it is a quick kill usually

i have done it a few times

 

[Ryusuta]

What does his nair do?

It's an ungodly aerial poke with almost total coverage and basically no start-up time. It is unbelievably valuable against juggling games, and is a great offensive and defensive option in countless situations. Like back air, it also snuffs out several projectiles.

lol I really know next to nothing about Yoshi. And yeah, I thought Link could gale guard Yoshi, but apparently not. I'd like to know why.

Yoshi simply has too much aerial manueverability. Without exaggeration, Yoshi can literally return to the stage from any direction at any time. Even if a Gale Guard was attempted, Yoshi can Egg Toss stall and/or go above it.

The main thing to keep in mind that most people that don't play as Yoshi aren't aware of is that Yoshi doesn't have to use his second jump at all many times, and in fact is capable of using his second jump AFTER using Egg Toss. (Most people aren't aware that most yoshi players play without Tap Jump, thereby allowing this without restriction). In short, Yoshi simply has too much aerial range and speed to be effectively gimped by this.

 

[Poltergust]

The problem for Link is that he is too easily gimped by Yoshi. If he is hit ONCE with a d-air or n-air during recovery, he's a goner. Heck, I even successfully edge-guarded with just Egg Toss once because I hit Link right after his double-jump. His recovery is THAT bad.

Link does have more overall range than Yoshi, though. However, he just doesn't have the speed to back it up. Yoshi can quite easily approach Link with his b-air and Link won't be able to do anything about it. However, Link doesn't have to approach Yoshi due to having three projectiles, so he shouldn't really worry about that.

Link is a very technical character (like us! =D), but most of his ATs don't work well against Yoshi, while out own ATs work fine on him. =/

I think Link's ground game is slightly better than Yoshi's, but Yoshi just absolutely owns Link in the air.

By the way, Yoshi's u-air out-ranges Link's d-air. I've done it a couple of times before, but the timing is extremely hard due to Link being the fastest fast-faller in the game.

I would put the match at 55:45 Yoshi or 60:40 Yoshi.

 

[Sharky]

Luc's ftilt startup is considerably faster than eggroll and outprioritizes. Not sure which would win out if a Yoshi tried to eggroll Lucario right as Luc fsmashed at tipper range. Point being, It is theory.

Try that priority test again when Yoshi's rolling at full speed. That's the only way it should be hitting you, anyway. Like Mmac said, we never use it on the ground point blank.

I think it's ****ing hilarious that you'd rather have a slew of inaccurate information in a viable tourney-character summary so you can hurry up and discuss one of the worse characters in the game.
Anyways, enjoy Link.

lol, undetected sarcasm is undetected. Shiri ftw.

edit: where's the match-up chart? o.o

 

[Oddler]

I have trouble with Yoshi's as Link because nobody plays that darn Dino to learn off of! So I usually have trouble with them. The element of surprise usually works toward Yoshi's favor since he can be a real ******* to kill with too many tricks up his sleeve...

 

[Ryusuta]

To be fair, the same could almost be said of Link by some people.

 

[Sharky]

Yeah, really. I've pulled out link a couple times in tourney and won with him just because the other person didn't know what to do with him. XD

 

[Timbers]

Timber's, you do know that Yoshi isn't going to use Egg Roll point blank right? The startup has terrible priority to make it useful from that distance

Try that priority test again when Yoshi's rolling at full speed. That's the only way it should be hitting you, anyway. Like Mmac said, we never use it on the ground point blank.

I'm so confused now, considering Furbs just said that eggroll will beat out our brickwalling, yet you have to use it like half a stage away to get to "full momentum." lol.

You'll have to pardon my naivety on the subject, as I've yet to experience an eggroll that wasn't extremely easy to either shield or sh dair.

lol, undetected sarcasm is undetected. Shiri ftw.

Naw, he use to troll the Luc matchup thread, I already knew it was sarcastic but he's a very boring person to keep listening to.

 

[Furbs]

You'll have to pardon my naivety on the subject, as I've yet to experience an eggroll that wasn't extremely easy to either shield or sh dair.

ugh, read ALL THE POSTS, i said that counter and Dair can be used against the roll.

I NEVER SAID (once again cause you don't seem to get it) ALWAYS use the roll. only against a lucario that is ONLY using ftilts and fsmash (as in NOTHING ELSE AT ALL) because kitamerby said that lucario could spam those moves all day and yoshi could do NOTHING.

you can grab a roll too if you time it right!
you can shield it and u-tilt too!

Edit: also when yoshi players refer to the roll they typically mean one at normal speed considering no yoshi player is ever going to use it up close