I shoulda sent it with my message to AZ a minute ago having him sticky something else. lol
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The NEW Yoshi Matchup Thread V2|Week 10 - Zelda
- Thread starter Mmac
- Start date
Mmac
Smash Lord
Well... It's Wednesday, so I guess it would be a good time to start on Dedede.
And................ GO!
And................ GO!
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
I think we should take DDD into account without the CG. As his CG is hard, it be nice to discuss him without that, and pull that out later in the discussion.
That being said, I dont like him.
To be more exact...I don't like gordo.
Why? Because for some reason....that ******* always pops up at the WORST moments.
Besides Gordo his Projectile spam is really managable, Can it even break through Yoshi's Heavy armor frames?
DDD's range is also annoying, because there are times when you want to get in.... and well... you can't.
However DDD's air speed is Lawl worthy, and he can somewhat easy to manage because of that.
I don't have a lot of experience on this though....just throwing some info out to start and get this thread on track.
That being said, I dont like him.
To be more exact...I don't like gordo.
Why? Because for some reason....that ******* always pops up at the WORST moments.
Besides Gordo his Projectile spam is really managable, Can it even break through Yoshi's Heavy armor frames?
DDD's range is also annoying, because there are times when you want to get in.... and well... you can't.
However DDD's air speed is Lawl worthy, and he can somewhat easy to manage because of that.
I don't have a lot of experience on this though....just throwing some info out to start and get this thread on track.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
The CG is possible on D3 but since you only get like 3 grabs on FD and no release spike or follow up so therefore it is pretty pointless for D3 so don't put the CG in to factor due to no release options.
For the match up egg spam and pivot grab the **** out of him as long as you don't edge guard him when your down a stock (swallow side) then you should be good. Also yoshi can get out of his CG so thats a plus and you can combo the **** out of D3 but because of D3 easy KO (up-tilt and dash attack) options and weight (can't kill the fat ***) I would have to say its a 4:6 D3's favor
For the match up egg spam and pivot grab the **** out of him as long as you don't edge guard him when your down a stock (swallow side) then you should be good. Also yoshi can get out of his CG so thats a plus and you can combo the **** out of D3 but because of D3 easy KO (up-tilt and dash attack) options and weight (can't kill the fat ***) I would have to say its a 4:6 D3's favor
Poltergust
Smash Master
Unfortunately, I don't have any videos of Yoshi's f-smash breaking through Mr. Game & Watch's b-air. In every Yoshi vs. Mr. Game & Watch match I've had I had to play extremely defensively so that I don't get KOed at 75% by him. So, they all lasted over 3 minutes. You may have to try it for yourself. Have Mr. Game & Watch RAR you and try to f-smash him through it (up-angled, of course).
OK, now for King Dedede...
Use tons of eggs against him. He is so succeptable to egg spam that it isn't even funny. Just watch out for the occasional Gordo.
His b-air is a huge obstacle to deal with. You really can't reliably break through that attack with any move other than your eggs. If he is going to edge-guard you with it, then recover high when you can. Also, if you have to recover low, DJAD past him. Yoshi is like twice as fast as him in the air. XD
Dededecide is a problem. Don't try to get up close to him to edge-guard if you are down a stock.
One more thing. This may sounds extremely crazy, but does King Dedede have as large a grab range as Yoshi?
OK, now for King Dedede...
Use tons of eggs against him. He is so succeptable to egg spam that it isn't even funny. Just watch out for the occasional Gordo.
His b-air is a huge obstacle to deal with. You really can't reliably break through that attack with any move other than your eggs. If he is going to edge-guard you with it, then recover high when you can. Also, if you have to recover low, DJAD past him. Yoshi is like twice as fast as him in the air. XD
Dededecide is a problem. Don't try to get up close to him to edge-guard if you are down a stock.
One more thing. This may sounds extremely crazy, but does King Dedede have as large a grab range as Yoshi?
D
Deleted member
Guest
Really, the ONLY THING you need to do is camp. That is it. Nothing else. Lol its da truth.
Poltergust
Smash Master
The scary thing is is that I may have to agree with you there. =/
The problem with King Dedede is getting the killing blow, though. I usually kill him with n-airs or the lucky f-smash. Killing him off the top is a pain, even at high percents. Thank God that he has horrible DI...
The problem with King Dedede is getting the killing blow, though. I usually kill him with n-airs or the lucky f-smash. Killing him off the top is a pain, even at high percents. Thank God that he has horrible DI...
MK26
Smash Master
I lol'd.
Now fill it out for Yoshi.
and if you ask nicely I'll give you my matchup template that presently resides at the bottom of the second post of the thread you stole this from.But seriously, I couldn't stop laughing for about a minute after I saw this...and I checked out this thread completely on a whim, too...
P.S. I like the chart
gratefulxgrapefruit
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 10
It's probably pretty close. DDD has huge grab range.
Tidycats29
Smash Cadet
I think i said MO in other thread
but i'll say it again
i honestly think it's a 5:5
i really never seem to have a problem with DDDs
the CG is pretty easy to dodge
and you can egg spam him easily while he is recovering
or even when he tries to do the same old edgeguard game
like a few people have said
only problem seem to be that he is difficult to KO
i usually do the trick with a Down B on ground or Uair
I am curious at other opinions though
plz do tell
but i'll say it again
i honestly think it's a 5:5
i really never seem to have a problem with DDDs
the CG is pretty easy to dodge
and you can egg spam him easily while he is recovering
or even when he tries to do the same old edgeguard game
like a few people have said
only problem seem to be that he is difficult to KO
i usually do the trick with a Down B on ground or Uair
I am curious at other opinions though
plz do tell
Poltergust
Smash Master
No, you CAN'T avoid the chain-grab if the King Dedede player does everything correctly. That's why it is called a chain-grab. Also, it is much easier to KO him off the sides than off the top. He's extremely heavy and has fast falling-speed. It is easier to KO him off the sides due to his terrible air-speed. Heck, sometimes I see the King Dedede player jump twice and STILL die. That's pretty bad.
Big Red
Smash Journeyman
Start your bairs/dairs in front of him and end on the other side to try and bring down his shield without getting grabbed.
Watch out for grab mindgames. He has a lot of options after a down throw other than the usual regrab. He could fsmash, dash attack, ftilt. Make sure to you pick up on their patterns because trust me, you don't want to try to spotdodge an f-tilt and end up with at fsmash on your head.
Watch out for grab mindgames. He has a lot of options after a down throw other than the usual regrab. He could fsmash, dash attack, ftilt. Make sure to you pick up on their patterns because trust me, you don't want to try to spotdodge an f-tilt and end up with at fsmash on your head.
Tidycats29
Smash Cadet
Try walking away from chaingrab
or even a jab
it CAN be dodged
those are 2 example of getting away from it
Yoshi has a CG on DDD does that mean DDD can't get out of it
heck no
Sharky
Smash Master
It's been discussed before, but whether Yoshi can escape or not depends on whether DeDeDe buffers the dash or not. Check out their forums if you need more convincing.
Mmac
Smash Lord
D
Deleted member
Guest
He told me its evenish a while ago. He taught me the matchup so yea =/ Still id like to hear his opinion.
yoshihybrid
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 1
I've got some good exp with DeDeDe (both with and against) and let me say a few things.
DeDeDe isn't invicible. Most of the time you will be camping him, but your also looking for him to whif attacks. Some are easier to capitalize on that others, obvoisly, but doing so is whats important. A good tactic is to try and get him into a grab and shoot him either down or up. Since your upsmash isn't a KO move in this matchup, its definately open to juggle with, and DeDeDe doesn't have the greatest answers to it (at least none that won't make him whif if he hits the ground).
For DeDeDe's neutral B. Fact, DeDeDe does not like eggs. Feel free to make him eat a few. If he attempts to suicide, roll back and whoop him with a D-air. DeDeDe has horrible lag on the start and end of his neutral B, and might even suicide if he releases it too late. If DeDeDe is great at recovering from the top, shouldn't he be horrible from below? Something to watch out for, DeDeDe has a second suicide if you chase him off the edge, but it only works from a specific angle, I'll get to it later.
For DeDeDe's side B. Its a disruption move for the most part. Don't be intimidated by Gordo's, infact, if you can ninja one out of the air (hit it with your fresh neutral air) you may take him off his game. This is good, because if he's anything like me, he'll attempt to use waddle doo's (orange guys with big eye) to set you up for a power move like a f'smash. Take aay DeDeDe's little range game though, and he's all the more open to yours. Also, get DeDeDe flustered, and he loses the chaingrab. Get in his head, and use the Gordo to do it if you can.
For DeDeDe's up B. Most of my better tricks with DeDeDe actually come from this move. It spikes, and its invincibility is great for mindgames, but it does have its flaw. If you neutral B DeDeDe out of this move (which is easier than it sounds), you can further mind game him. If you get him to start canceling early for fear of being eaten, you might just get a shot in when he realizes your faster than him in the air. It can also lead to a star KO depending on how high he cancels. Now, if DeDeDe whif's the suicide, and he is going straight down, he can use his up B to spike, and potentially grab the ledge. He can't have any left or right, if he's too far in or going in, he'll hit under the stage (exception, Yoshi's Island) and if he needs to pull out to rectify himself, odds are he'll miss the ledge. Basically, if he has to tilt the jump either way after suiciding, feel free to pwn him or hope he dies.
For DeDeDe's down B. Seriously, walk away. He's either got to use it and whif, or burn himself out. If he whif's, he's dead, you WILL eat him alive with a juggle if your fast enough.
For DeDeDe's "A game" stay to his corners. DeDeDe can only easily reach them with a smash, and remember, if he whif's, he's dead. Get used to doing smashes just as you land so he doesn't have time to d-smash or grab you when you land inside him.
For DeDeDe's air game. Keep some distance, and egg him to his face. If he attepts to b-air, run under him if he's high, fly over him if he's low. Your d-air can't out prioritize his u-air to my knowledge, but his u-air is sloppy on the corners. If below him, make him whif his d-air, and punish. Repeat a few times to rock him off his game.
If DeDeDe chaingrabs you. Don't panic. Hopefully, you have been mindgaming him all day. If you have, he may mess up, and a messed up chaingrab can be u-smashed. Get DeDeDe in the air on YOUR terms and you kill the chaingrab. He can't return to the ground fast enough to dodge both a u-air and a down attack, and your d-air has plenty of sexkick on it. Be warned though, land with him, and you will be grabbed.
Hopefully these help.
DeDeDe isn't invicible. Most of the time you will be camping him, but your also looking for him to whif attacks. Some are easier to capitalize on that others, obvoisly, but doing so is whats important. A good tactic is to try and get him into a grab and shoot him either down or up. Since your upsmash isn't a KO move in this matchup, its definately open to juggle with, and DeDeDe doesn't have the greatest answers to it (at least none that won't make him whif if he hits the ground).
For DeDeDe's neutral B. Fact, DeDeDe does not like eggs. Feel free to make him eat a few. If he attempts to suicide, roll back and whoop him with a D-air. DeDeDe has horrible lag on the start and end of his neutral B, and might even suicide if he releases it too late. If DeDeDe is great at recovering from the top, shouldn't he be horrible from below? Something to watch out for, DeDeDe has a second suicide if you chase him off the edge, but it only works from a specific angle, I'll get to it later.
For DeDeDe's side B. Its a disruption move for the most part. Don't be intimidated by Gordo's, infact, if you can ninja one out of the air (hit it with your fresh neutral air) you may take him off his game. This is good, because if he's anything like me, he'll attempt to use waddle doo's (orange guys with big eye) to set you up for a power move like a f'smash. Take aay DeDeDe's little range game though, and he's all the more open to yours. Also, get DeDeDe flustered, and he loses the chaingrab. Get in his head, and use the Gordo to do it if you can.
For DeDeDe's up B. Most of my better tricks with DeDeDe actually come from this move. It spikes, and its invincibility is great for mindgames, but it does have its flaw. If you neutral B DeDeDe out of this move (which is easier than it sounds), you can further mind game him. If you get him to start canceling early for fear of being eaten, you might just get a shot in when he realizes your faster than him in the air. It can also lead to a star KO depending on how high he cancels. Now, if DeDeDe whif's the suicide, and he is going straight down, he can use his up B to spike, and potentially grab the ledge. He can't have any left or right, if he's too far in or going in, he'll hit under the stage (exception, Yoshi's Island) and if he needs to pull out to rectify himself, odds are he'll miss the ledge. Basically, if he has to tilt the jump either way after suiciding, feel free to pwn him or hope he dies.
For DeDeDe's down B. Seriously, walk away. He's either got to use it and whif, or burn himself out. If he whif's, he's dead, you WILL eat him alive with a juggle if your fast enough.
For DeDeDe's "A game" stay to his corners. DeDeDe can only easily reach them with a smash, and remember, if he whif's, he's dead. Get used to doing smashes just as you land so he doesn't have time to d-smash or grab you when you land inside him.
For DeDeDe's air game. Keep some distance, and egg him to his face. If he attepts to b-air, run under him if he's high, fly over him if he's low. Your d-air can't out prioritize his u-air to my knowledge, but his u-air is sloppy on the corners. If below him, make him whif his d-air, and punish. Repeat a few times to rock him off his game.
If DeDeDe chaingrabs you. Don't panic. Hopefully, you have been mindgaming him all day. If you have, he may mess up, and a messed up chaingrab can be u-smashed. Get DeDeDe in the air on YOUR terms and you kill the chaingrab. He can't return to the ground fast enough to dodge both a u-air and a down attack, and your d-air has plenty of sexkick on it. Be warned though, land with him, and you will be grabbed.
Hopefully these help.
Bwett
Smash Ace
I'll give you another matchup description here probably on sunday or something. Just to get you prepared, I might be calling for 55:45 DDD. Fogo has covered almost all my approaches and he makes it seem pretty easy
Poltergust
Smash Master
Actually, it does. It's called a chain-grab for a reason, you know. What else would you call it if you can escape?
SOVAman
Smash Hero
But...
it sucks *** on that fat duck you get like two or three CGs in on FD from one side to the other so therefore it sucks and also there are no release options on D3 therefore it sucks more
in other words just throw him and give him damage
Poltergust
Smash Master
Um, I'm just saying that you actually can chain-grab him, though. Just chain-grab him to one side then throw him. o_O
Every little bit of damage helps, especially against a heavyweight like King Dedede.
Every little bit of damage helps, especially against a heavyweight like King Dedede.
Mmac
Smash Lord
I updated the Matchup Thread with "Well Known Matchups" Being that this matchup was either discussed so many times it's practically common knowlage, or has already been discussed by the repersenting community. Basically I'm adding them now to not waste time in the weekly matchup. I Have updated the list currently with Falco, Marth, Diddy, and Kirby
Edit: Pit and Wolf too
Edit: Pit and Wolf too
Ryusuta
Smash Master
I'm loving the look of the new chart, Mmac!
By the way, not to start a character invasion or anything, but the Samus board is (laughably) trying to argue a neutral-to-advantage against Yoshi. Someone actually had the gall to cite an 80-20 for her!
By the way, not to start a character invasion or anything, but the Samus board is (laughably) trying to argue a neutral-to-advantage against Yoshi. Someone actually had the gall to cite an 80-20 for her!
Mmac
Smash Lord
Yeah, I'm already there, didn't you see me?
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
As an avid Dedede user and Yoshi as well, them being my two top people, I can strongly say that this match could go either way. The biggest weapon Yoshi user's have is the down A air, Its massive combo potential along side D3s large size is a sure fire way to rack up damage. This will also put you in close range where Yoshi has a large advantage to the slow moving Dedede. However, either do this after a move with large lag is used by Dedede or stall in the air with and egg throw in attempt to throw off the dedede to make sure you are not hit up by any number of Dedede's up hammer swings. A good combo I find is to swallow, then when Dedede jumps out of the egg to hammer with the A down air.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Finished the known matchup section.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Sweet chart.
Do you pronounce Mmac as in Meh-Mac?
I usually say Mic-Mac. Sounds better.
Do you pronounce Mmac as in Meh-Mac?
I usually say Mic-Mac. Sounds better.
Bwett
Smash Ace
Alright, I actually was deciding not to do another description because I've done this so many times, but then I read some comments about the matchup and it charged me up so yeah, get ready beyotches!
First off, the CG DDD performs on Yoshi has strange timing and most DDD's have problems pulling it off. You cannot escape it if they have the timing proper, however because it is hard for them to do, always try to spot dodge, roll, or something everytime, just in case they screw up. Most of yall do have the right idea. Spam eggs. If you don't use eggs, the matchup moves quickly in DDD's favor.
Now let's discuss all options if both of you are on the ground. The best range you want to be at against DDD is far away. He can try to spam waddles, but as long as you stay out of that range, then you can punish him for it with eggs.
If you happen to approach DDD, there are only a few things you can do that won't be punished. Retreating bairs, or rising aerials, are really the only safe things to do. If you do bairs through the DDD, he can shield the entire thing and grab you on the other side, or possible grab you while trying to go through. It can happen. Usually you want to do interchange bair and ETS back and forth. It causes your strategy to be split between defense and offense and the DDD won't know how to approach it. If they try to approach, they will get caught by the retreating bair into other attacks. If they back up, you can egg spam. This is the absolute best strategy I have found, in fact it's pretty good against most characters (I use it quite a bit).
If he happens to shield grab alot, throw in more grabs and egglay. DJC egglay works wonders on DDD. Pivot grabs should be used quite a bit.
When you are being CG'ed by DDD, you have to keep in mind a few things. If you are at high percentage, the chance of you being CG'ed to the end of the stage is quite rare. Odds are they are going to stop the CG and use dash attack or wait for your spot dodge and utilt (And as a side note, always be wary of his ultilt. It kills at 98% or something when fresh. This is a good DDD's main killing tool besides gimping). Also, I don't know if some of you that have seen my recent vids but I have started implementing something where I will run straight at someone, they spot dodge, and I run past them to pivot grab. It works surprising well, BUT now Fogo stole it from me and is wrecking me with it with his CG's. On FD, he will CG me to the end. I usually try to spot dodge out of the grabs and he will run past and pivot another grab and go across the stage again. I've been CG'ed in one go 3 times around FD...it was the worst experience of my life lol but no other DDD knows about that just yet so ssshhhhh =P. If you do ever get that, might want to try rolling instead, that will break the cycle. He can also dtilt out of CG, which hurts.
Now, no matter what, you do not want to be above him at high percentage. Utilt has deceptive range and will connect. If yall are both in the air, connect uairs together with eggs and maybe a dair or two. This area is really where a certain yoshi's style comes out so mix it up.
The absolute worst position and what I believe makes this match 55:45 DDD is when you are off the stage and DDD is standing right at the edge. If you are ever in this position, probably the safest thing is to recover high and try to get back on without getting punished. However, if your life has become so incredibly unlucky that you must grab that ledge...personally I believe besides playing against MK in this kind of setup, this is the absolute hardest setup yoshi can be in. Now let's go through your options.
1) Get up attack can be shieldgrabbed.
2) Ledge jump can be grabbed or attacked instantly. Might work once or twice but very dangerous to do since you are so vulnerable doing that.
3) The last option available would be to do drop -> DJ - something. This part all depends on how smart the DDD you're playing is. This is super mind games lol.
3a) If you try bair, he can shieldgrab it and is rather dangerous.
3b) Dair is another option and can be quite good, but only if they don't see it coming. Also can be shield grabbed while you are coming up.
3c) DJAD is probably one of your safest options. In this instance, you have to choose where you will dodge to, either in front of him or behind him. Once again, all depends on how your opponent reacts. If he predicts the dodge through, you get grabbed and CG'ed to the other side. If he predicts in front, you get grabbed and thrown back out in the air.
3d) Egglay can be very useful as well.
3e) Depending how close to the edge they are, ECE can off some good damage, but they can dtilt or ftilt you out of it so watch out for that.
In all these instances with grabs, you have just lost your DJ. He can wait for the release and a quick edgegrab with invincibility will leave you falling to your doom.
In all actuality though, there is no safe option. If your opponent plays smart, you will punished from any of these things. Luckily, though, most DDD's won't have the reactions or timing to perform most of this. However, if you do play a smart DDD, do not put yourself in this position.
Well, it was kinda scattered and stuff but I hope this is what yall wanted. I might sound rather bleak in some situations, but it really is that hard if you are playing someone smart.
55:45 Have fun!
First off, the CG DDD performs on Yoshi has strange timing and most DDD's have problems pulling it off. You cannot escape it if they have the timing proper, however because it is hard for them to do, always try to spot dodge, roll, or something everytime, just in case they screw up. Most of yall do have the right idea. Spam eggs. If you don't use eggs, the matchup moves quickly in DDD's favor.
Now let's discuss all options if both of you are on the ground. The best range you want to be at against DDD is far away. He can try to spam waddles, but as long as you stay out of that range, then you can punish him for it with eggs.
If you happen to approach DDD, there are only a few things you can do that won't be punished. Retreating bairs, or rising aerials, are really the only safe things to do. If you do bairs through the DDD, he can shield the entire thing and grab you on the other side, or possible grab you while trying to go through. It can happen. Usually you want to do interchange bair and ETS back and forth. It causes your strategy to be split between defense and offense and the DDD won't know how to approach it. If they try to approach, they will get caught by the retreating bair into other attacks. If they back up, you can egg spam. This is the absolute best strategy I have found, in fact it's pretty good against most characters (I use it quite a bit).
If he happens to shield grab alot, throw in more grabs and egglay. DJC egglay works wonders on DDD. Pivot grabs should be used quite a bit.
When you are being CG'ed by DDD, you have to keep in mind a few things. If you are at high percentage, the chance of you being CG'ed to the end of the stage is quite rare. Odds are they are going to stop the CG and use dash attack or wait for your spot dodge and utilt (And as a side note, always be wary of his ultilt. It kills at 98% or something when fresh. This is a good DDD's main killing tool besides gimping). Also, I don't know if some of you that have seen my recent vids but I have started implementing something where I will run straight at someone, they spot dodge, and I run past them to pivot grab. It works surprising well, BUT now Fogo stole it from me and is wrecking me with it with his CG's. On FD, he will CG me to the end. I usually try to spot dodge out of the grabs and he will run past and pivot another grab and go across the stage again. I've been CG'ed in one go 3 times around FD...it was the worst experience of my life lol but no other DDD knows about that just yet so ssshhhhh =P. If you do ever get that, might want to try rolling instead, that will break the cycle. He can also dtilt out of CG, which hurts.
Now, no matter what, you do not want to be above him at high percentage. Utilt has deceptive range and will connect. If yall are both in the air, connect uairs together with eggs and maybe a dair or two. This area is really where a certain yoshi's style comes out so mix it up.
The absolute worst position and what I believe makes this match 55:45 DDD is when you are off the stage and DDD is standing right at the edge. If you are ever in this position, probably the safest thing is to recover high and try to get back on without getting punished. However, if your life has become so incredibly unlucky that you must grab that ledge...personally I believe besides playing against MK in this kind of setup, this is the absolute hardest setup yoshi can be in. Now let's go through your options.
1) Get up attack can be shieldgrabbed.
2) Ledge jump can be grabbed or attacked instantly. Might work once or twice but very dangerous to do since you are so vulnerable doing that.
3) The last option available would be to do drop -> DJ - something. This part all depends on how smart the DDD you're playing is. This is super mind games lol.
3a) If you try bair, he can shieldgrab it and is rather dangerous.
3b) Dair is another option and can be quite good, but only if they don't see it coming. Also can be shield grabbed while you are coming up.
3c) DJAD is probably one of your safest options. In this instance, you have to choose where you will dodge to, either in front of him or behind him. Once again, all depends on how your opponent reacts. If he predicts the dodge through, you get grabbed and CG'ed to the other side. If he predicts in front, you get grabbed and thrown back out in the air.
3d) Egglay can be very useful as well.
3e) Depending how close to the edge they are, ECE can off some good damage, but they can dtilt or ftilt you out of it so watch out for that.
In all these instances with grabs, you have just lost your DJ. He can wait for the release and a quick edgegrab with invincibility will leave you falling to your doom.
In all actuality though, there is no safe option. If your opponent plays smart, you will punished from any of these things. Luckily, though, most DDD's won't have the reactions or timing to perform most of this. However, if you do play a smart DDD, do not put yourself in this position.
Well, it was kinda scattered and stuff but I hope this is what yall wanted. I might sound rather bleak in some situations, but it really is that hard if you are playing someone smart.
55:45 Have fun!
D
Deleted member
Guest
Lol Bwett. Good advice =D
Except ECEs get ftilted.
Except ECEs get ftilted.
Sharky
Smash Master
Jab out of the CG instead? That way he can't get around you to pivot grab.
Dtilt really is a pain out of the CG. Not too many DDD's do it, though, which is nice.
edit: LOL we could do the same thing against spot-dodging falcos for our CG. XD
Ryusuta
Smash Master
I'm inclined to agree with everything Bwett has said about the matchup.
Mmac
Smash Lord
I'm going to move onto the next character which will probably be Snake
SOVAman
Smash Hero
every ****ing tourney I lose to a lucario second or third round so he is soooo annooyyyinggg just pointing that out
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Yeah, Lucario still ranks as the single worst match-up for my Yoshi, personally...
Mmac
Smash Lord
Hmmm.... Lucario Next? So much debate on him.
Tidycats29
Smash Cadet
I haven't faced a pro lucario yet
i just don't see them
so my experience is very little
but common sense tells me he probably is 6:4 for lucario
seeing his range is HAXED!!
i just don't see them
so my experience is very little
but common sense tells me he probably is 6:4 for lucario
seeing his range is HAXED!!
Ryusuta
Smash Master
It's more than just his range. In virtually every situation on practically any stage layout, Lucario is almost invariably in a better position to do damage than Yoshi is. His pokes beat ours, his aerials beat ours, his spam beats ours, and he's just generally a pain in the neck. It's not to say Yoshi CAN'T win, it's just really difficult for him.
I'd give him a 7:3, personally, though I think more Yoshis would argue a 6.5:3.5 (possibly 6:4).
I'd give him a 7:3, personally, though I think more Yoshis would argue a 6.5:3.5 (possibly 6:4).
Poltergust
Smash Master
Actually, I think a more pressing issue is Link. We know that we're at a disadvantage with Lucario, but with Link no one has a clue about the match-up. I've played some Link mains and I've beaten them, and they say that Yoshi is the one at an advantage here. Yet, we say that Link is the one at an advantage...
We need some more clarification on this match-up. It's just too vague. We should ask the Link board for some help on this matter. I think that Lucario can wait.
(I really don't have much experience fighting Lucarios, so I can't contribute much...)
We need some more clarification on this match-up. It's just too vague. We should ask the Link board for some help on this matter. I think that Lucario can wait.
(I really don't have much experience fighting Lucarios, so I can't contribute much...)