The New Tier List

[NixxxoN]

DK' s dash attack sets up an easy techchase afterwards.

 

[DMoogle]

Samus' uptilt and upsmash are up there too, but DKs dash is prolly worse.

Samus' up-smash definitely has legitimate applications, and it can do a ton of damage (10% per hit, up to 50%!), it's just difficult to recognize when it would be correct to use (kind of like Kirby's u-air).

Her up-tilt is pretty close to Luigi's dash though.

 

[walsh]

DKs dash attack is horrible. How can you catch someone offguard when you simply dash straight into them? It doesn't combo into anything except stage elements like tornados, piranhas etc.
Luigis dash attack is also horrible as it is negative on everything. you'll either hit their shield and get shield grabbed, hit them and then get counter. Hit there shield, push them off a ledge and get naired or they will jump, roll or anything and you'll look like a fool wailing yours tiny arms around.

not if you use luigi's dash attack to knock them off a ledge bro. and it depends what % they are at too.

 

[DMoogle]

not if you use luigi's dash attack to knock them off a ledge bro. and it depends what % they are at too.

If you use his dash attack to knock your opponent off of a ledge, then it's even worse, because your opponent should be able to approach faster and hit you before you have a chance to recover.

 

[rpotts]

If you use his dash attack to knock your opponent off of a ledge, then it's even worse, because your opponent should be able to approach faster and hit you before you have a chance to recover.

lol that's exactly what I was thinking. Dash attacking against someone up against a ledge is a pretty bad option, cause if they shield, you'll get countered. And if you knock them off they'll likely be able to recover and counter unless they're at high damage.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

did someone just say Samus's Up smash is terrible...

LOL, instant shield breaker, combo out of down air into an f-air, its a great move.

 

[rpotts]

did someone just say Samus's Up smash is terrible...

LOL, instant shield breaker, combo out of down air into an f-air, its a great move.

slowest upsmash in the game, comes out in what, 20 frames?? if you hit the first few hits you'll miss the last few/ vice versa. It's really good against master hand, but it's definitely not a "great move" at all.

And i didn't say it was terrible, I said it was up there, in reference to the worst moves in the game.

Show me a samus who uses it well in a match.

 

[asianaussie]

Falling D-Air on a grounded mid-percent foe > U-Smash is an instant boost in damage (20-50) and it can even link to N-Air or B-Air.

It's not wonderful, but it certainly isn't bad along the lines of DK's dash attack.

 

[rpotts]

but in a cumulative list of A moves I still believe its much closer to the bottom than top.

 

[Ha××y ßØy]

fox is way better than Pikachu, so really Fox should be up there alone.

 

[asianaussie]

Someone needs to write a brief summary of each matchup so kids don't come in and spout stuff like this.

 

[rpotts]

Someone needs to write a brief summary of each matchup so kids don't come in and spout stuff like this.

isn't that what the matchup thread is for??
plus, no matter how many threads we have sticked, kids will still come in here and be like

WHY IZ NESS SO LOW!!!?!?!one!?!? HIS SPIEK IS TEH BEZT!!!!!eleven!!

 

[ballin4life]

fox is way better than Pikachu, so really Fox should be up there alone.

You might be trolling but if not...

In ssb64 there's this thing called "recovery". It's pretty important.

 

[dch111]

Someone needs to write a brief summary of each matchup so kids don't come in and spout stuff like this.

Won't make a difference. This is the internet. There are no age or IQ requirements to register on these boards.

 

[NixxxoN]

lol
one of the forum's purposes is actually make people get informed or corrected if its necessary

 

[Darth Rancorous]

I actually think fox is a better character than pikachu overall. His combo abilities are near limitless, he has a great approach due to having one of the best projectiles in the game, and the startup time on most of his moves is the shortest in the game. I agree that his recovery isn't the best but if u ignore this, fox is definitely a better character than pikachu.

 

[dandan]

lol if you ignore the thing that make fox worst, he is better indeed
jking

 

[killmaster]

i was surprise at ness position on the tier list but I agree his position because non-tas he sucks

I also think that fox is a better character than pikachu but playing a fox better then pikachu would mean to be isai or to play tas ...

 

[Little England]

On the discussion of worst grabs, it seems everyone forgot about kirby's. Fthrow for vertical kills off the ceiling and that's all he has.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

F-throw is amazing. If you're against a character with a bad vertical recovery, f-throw suicide results in them dying as well, and if they're on their last stock, you win (assuming you weren't on your last stock to begin with).

Kirby's throws aren't bad... they're just not as good as other throws (wait... doesn't that make them bad? ).

 

[dch111]

lol
one of the forum's purposes is actually make people get informed or corrected if its necessary

Right, but I was saying it won't make a difference in terms of kids coming in randomly and "spouting stuff".

 

[The Good Doctor]

Right, but I was saying it won't make a difference in terms of kids coming in randomly and "spouting stuff".

Then why even have the forums?
Don't have such a negative attitude..

 

[rpotts]

Then why even have the forums?
Don't have such a negative attitude..

whaaaaa? That's not being negative, simply being realistic. I don't really understand your response.

 

[NixxxoN]

whaaaaa? That's not being negative, simply being realistic. I don't really understand your response.

Yup as The Good Doctor said, lets close the forum then, and replace it by just an information website, as people are forbidden to come here and be wrong/uninformed.

 

[dch111]

You misunderstand the post. Reread, and check anywhere if it says having these boards is pointless. I was just making an observation that you'll get posts like "this list sucks, Samus should be at the top!!!" regardless of what measures you take against it. Of course people are going to be wrong. But people that are both wrong and have bad attitudes about it will pop up whether you like it or not.

Why have the forums? For discussion. That has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Not to encourage people to say stuff like "Ness should be higher", but we can be wrong at times. Take melee for example. Puff was way down on the tier list. Then Mango comes and wins Pound 3, ROM, and basically all the major tournaments. Other puff players also placed high. Puff went from middle to high tier, and if there is another tier list, she would probably end up in the top tier.

I know it's slightly different, but it's related and relevant.

 

[ballin4life]

jiggs has always been pretty high, or at least didn't change much

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_previous_tier_lists

lol at the april fool's one though since that's what people say about jiggs now haha

 

[asianaussie]

I think the list is fairly accurate. There is some dispute, but everyone is close to where they should be.

The difference here is that every character has decent 'representation' - most people who gave input can play with multiple characters on a similar (relative) level that Melee players use their mains, and thus we get lots of input for almost all the matchups (which are also fewer in number). In relation to the entire tier list, I think this one is better than those made for other games, if only because all the characters are fairly viable and often used.

We don't use tournament placings, but that is a good thing in relation to the bottom half of the list - competition requires selective use of characters, and unless someone is extraordinarily specialised, most players will be using Pika/Kirby/Fox/Falcon, seeing as they are better than those in the bottom half.

 

[firo]

Someone (mod/t3h icy) needs to edit the first post and switch ness and jigglipuff - this was decided a long time ago in the matchup thread but still has yet to be changed. Give the psychic boy his props!

And the one on smashwiki too!

 

[andrewajt62]

Ness IMO has a lot of potential just takes a really good player to take advantage of it

 

[asianaussie]

*insert character* IMO has a lot of potential just takes a really good player to take advantage of it

 

[andrewajt62]

That's not completely true, I'm by no means a professional kirby player but I can easily dair-up tilt-back air for a devastating combo

 

[ballin4life]

Noob combo imo. True pros weak bair or fair -> nair/dair yo (or maybe even fsmash?)

 

[MattNF]

That's not completely true, I'm by no means a professional kirby player but I can easily dair-up tilt-back air for a devastating combo

That's one of the easiest combos in the entire game

 

[t3h Icy]

That's not completely true, I'm by no means a professional kirby player but I can easily dair-up tilt-back air for a devastating combo

Yeah, well I can Falcon Uair combo.

*****.

 

[ballin4life]

Someone (mod/t3h icy) needs to edit the first post and switch ness and jigglipuff - this was decided a long time ago in the matchup thread but still has yet to be changed. Give the psychic boy his props!

And the one on smashwiki too!

If we're making changes then kirby for S tier imo

 

[sharksquail]

If we're making changes then kirby for S tier imo

I would say that Kirby is a solid 3 spot. Kirby doesn't have the combo ability that Pika and Fox have, witch makes them s tier imo.

 

[NixxxoN]

I would say that Kirby is a solid 3 spot. Kirby doesn't have the combo ability that Pika and Fox have, witch makes them s tier imo.

Combos =/= Everything

Kirby can gimp so easily and a lot of his moves are way too good.

I'd say Kirby = Fox at least, if not better than Fox

 

[SilentSlayers]

I agree with DixxxoN