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The *NEW* Snake Matchup Discussion Index

Ken Neth

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
2,545
Location
BYU- Provo, Utah
I don't get why we're still debating MVD's skill level instead of the actual matchup. MVD is good, no doubt about that. Whether he's a top snake in the country seems to be the main point of debate and it all seems to come down to differing opinions, and there's not really a way to prove that. So lets move on to the actual matchup :)

:phone:
 

MVD

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
3,236
Location
Miami, FL
I don't get why we're still debating MVD's skill level instead of the actual matchup. MVD is good, no doubt about that. Whether he's a top snake in the country seems to be the main point of debate and it all seems to come down to differing opinions, and there's not really a way to prove that. So lets move on to the actual matchup :)

:phone:
When so many people say I am there kinda is no debate, not many say I'm not :p

:phone:
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
2,066
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
GadielVaStar
MVD, don't give into it, you are one of the best Snakes in the world! Your Snake is so unique, and has a lot more potential than other Snakes, and quit saying that you don't have experience because you do, but you just have to soak it all in, and apply all that you learned so you can reach an even higher level.
 

mikeray4

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
708
Snake/Pika is ***.

Mike Ray did do exceptionally well...until I realized that all he does is DACUS and really basic **** (I was expecting more) and then I 3 stocked you on your counterpick.

**** is free.

Also, MVD is probably...3rd or 4th Snake in NA next to Razer, Ally, and maybe Havok (since Havok runs away from a lot of MUs with Snake, like Z's Pikachu)

#OnceAYearNamesearch

Also, he is even with NickRiddle this season (you can see that in our new PR), even against Ryo, loses to Seibrik, beat MJG at WHOBO4 the...2nd time they ever played? and whatever other wins are pretty damn recent (Except mampam, he hasn't beat mampam in a while)


You turned off the power.
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
I killed you once and was CGing you on the left when I was at like 40% lol

Still good ****, though.
 

Neon!

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
1,285
Location
Dallas, Texas
Not sure what matchup we're supposed to be discussing currently, I've recently changed my mind on snake vs marth. It seems like many people are accepting that marth goes even with snake instead of slightly beating him, I'd have to agree with this as well.

I've played the matchup extensively with shaya and a little with Nike. Once you learn to avoid early gimps and DI his fair correctly the matchup becomes proggressively harder for marth because of snakes longevity.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
meh.

i think marth vs snake has tons of room to develop and is more than likely going to develop into marth's favor as time progresses.
 

JTsm

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
3,230
meh.

i think marth vs snake has tons of room to develop and is more than likely going to develop into marth's favor as time progresses.
It's def in Marth's favor. Most Marth's however suck and therefore make the MU more even.

:phone:
 

Nike.

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
5,823
Location
SA-Town, Texas
I've always been in the dark about Math/Snake being even, considering that the Marth boards (for awhile) have considered it to be Marth's advantage.
Aside from Snake's weight, dacus alone is such a good "get-out-of-jail-free" card and covers itself quite well.
(obv Marth CAN beat/counter it, but it's such a good anti zoning move in general)
If it weren't for that move (of if it was difficult like Diddy/Sheik), Marth would clearly have the adv.
 

JTsm

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
3,230
Projectiles like grenades, C4 and even mines are pretty crucial in that MU. DACUS is too obvious, but I guess you can get hit by surprise. I really want to discuss the IC MU.
 

Ken Neth

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
2,545
Location
BYU- Provo, Utah
Difficultly of doing something shouldn't have an effect on the match up. Lack of tech skill doesn't make the match up worse, it makes that person worse in that matchup.

And dacus really isn't that great.

:phone:
 

Jrugs

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Messages
624
Location
140.96
This Mu is probably even. This Mu is ballz for a :marth: if therye even slightly less skilled than the :snake:.............However some times Neo makes me feel like Im playing a :metaknight:
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
6,025
Location
Melbourne, Australia
yo *****, money match.


Also my Marth spy network alerted me to your bull **** :(
!

didn't realise you had cronies.

in fact, i reckon you just name searched. yep, definitely. not that there is anything wrong with that <3

also, i would've gladly mm'd you if you came to bam... that was definitely your best shot at beating me :D
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
[1:39:23 PM] Shaya: 180% Z
[1:39:26 PM] Shaya: 90% Shaya
[1:39:27 PM] Kevin "Tennet" Surowiec: tap jump off is nice
[1:39:28 PM] Will: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14935503&postcount=132
[1:39:30 PM] Shaya: last stock
[1:39:31 PM] Shaya: last game
[1:39:31 PM] Will: the callouts shaya
[1:39:35 PM] Will: the callouts
[1:39:59 PM] Shaya: dang
[1:40:00 PM] Shaya: that *****
[1:40:05 PM] Will: hahaha
[1:40:08 PM] Shaya: and his ****ing perfect record against me in tournament
[1:40:13 PM] Shaya: gonna haunt me for life
yeah whatever. You did inspire me to name search myself afterwards though.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
6,025
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Not perfect, I lost to you in pools at my second ever tourney. Took you to third game though lololol

:phone:
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
Oh snap.

I'll ride that forever then,
just like my victory over zxv in melee.

That's right, you used Pit. I think you took me to that Pit stage (or lylat?) and I killed myself like 4 times. GG.
 

JTsm

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
3,230
lrn2metagame marth mains.

I actually I want to talk about IC/Pika. Esam needs to get bodied with our vasts amount of knowledge.

:phone:
 

mikeray4

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
708
At least we don't lose to peach esam. We two stock peach without breaking a sweat

:phone:
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
I didn't lose to peach last time I played one...

Also, Snake kinda does get countered by Olimar, ICs and Diddy are even, and you also lose to D3, Falco, Marth, Wario, MK, and Ike.
 

Neon!

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
1,285
Location
Dallas, Texas
I didn't lose to peach last time I played one...

Also, Snake kinda does get countered by Olimar, ICs and Diddy are even, and you also lose to D3, Falco, Marth, Wario, MK, and Ike.
Snake loses 45-55 to olimar, its not that bad. I used to think it was slightly worse but Razer has changed my mind, he's far better at the matchup than any other snake.

When it comes to most matchups I like to make 2 different charts, one that is optimistic for my character and one that is pessimistic. These ratios represent the highest or lowest numbers that I believe could realistically be argued for the matchup.

(Optimistic for Snake)
45-55 MK
55-45 IC
50-50 Olimar
50-50 DDD
55-45 Falco
50-50 Marth
55-45 Wario
55-45 Ike

(Pessimistic for Snake)
40-60 MK
45-55 IC
40-60 Olimar
40-60 DDD
45-55 Falco
40-60 Marth
45-55 Wario
45-55 Ike

Even if we accept all of the pessimistic ratios, they're still slight disadvantages. Pika still has even or slightly disadvantageous matchups against characters as bad as Ness, Peach, and Kirby, and borderline characters like GW, TL, and Lucario.
 

Ken Neth

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
2,545
Location
BYU- Provo, Utah
Hey you stole my avi >_>

Esam, instead of just telling us snake is bad, want to give us your views/tips on the match up? I'd be interested to hear it from the best pika's stand point.

:phone:
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
\

Even if we accept all of the pessimistic ratios, they're still slight disadvantages. Pika still has even or slightly disadvantageous matchups against characters as bad as Ness, Peach, and Kirby, and borderline characters like GW, TL, and Lucario.
(Pessimistic)
Pikachu has losing MUs to MK, ICs, Diddy, Lucario Olimar, G&W, and Peach

(Optimistic)
Pikachu has losing MUs to Diddy, Lucario, and Olimar.

Looks a hell of a lot better than yours.
 
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