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The *NEW* Snake Matchup Discussion Index
- Thread starter ZTD | TECHnology
- Start date
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
The way I see it is even if he's not the best he's still considered one of the top snakes by the community. So I don't know where all the hate is coming from, or why it's there. There is definitely stuff most snakes could learn from him, especially in a match up he has the most experience in out of us.
Ralph Cecil
Smash Champion
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Also that teching ability of his is something to strive for imo. :o
I still don't think he's good. MLG F@tal / @lly, 2010 Shu, 2011 Calzorz/R@zer give you hints on how far you can take Snake's gameplay to varying degrees. MVD doesn't place higher than top 20 in any OoS tourneys and I don't even know what 'good' wins he has recently. Probably some mediocre players who are considered 'good' because they place decently in local tourneys ... which in all honesty is pretty much all I see MVD do.
I mean, he's probably still good compared to most players [and most other Snakes in particular] but in terms of high / top-level play he's not worth mentioning imo ... unless he proves me wrong, that is.
Edit: This is not even hating on him, I just don't see the guy doing anything to back up these claims about him being so good. Most of the time he plays somebody good I see him lose ... and then john about how 'hard' things are as a Snake player. Kinda like Jrugs
I mean, he's probably still good compared to most players [and most other Snakes in particular] but in terms of high / top-level play he's not worth mentioning imo ... unless he proves me wrong, that is.
Edit: This is not even hating on him, I just don't see the guy doing anything to back up these claims about him being so good. Most of the time he plays somebody good I see him lose ... and then john about how 'hard' things are as a Snake player. Kinda like Jrugs
That was cute, but at least Im not some scrub who sits by my computer all day ,and talks about what some one could do, cuz I actually go to tournaments and practice. There almost no player on the top 5 thread I havent met and played yet. I have played like every olimar except rich brown, i bug Razer , Gnes, and Trela like some horny school girl for advice every time I see them,Ive slept in train stations for smashfest and tourneys just to gain experience. Further more you can ask any pro player what I say after every tourney set,money match, and friendly, and that is "what did I do wrong as a player or as a snake?"
I think snake is a hard as balls to main, and you have still yet to prove me wrong on that, or for that matter any good player as well.Ive seen good players convert to metaknight and wario, but rarely snake, maybe havok, but thats about it. I want to see you become a snake main in state where you play Gnes, Trela,Razer, Illmatic, Denti, Kprime,Dojo all the time and tell me if you wouldnt be the bitterest snake main ever! All that aside, I do blame snake for alot of things but before that I blame myself as a player more than I blame my character. You can ask Logic how many times I curse olimar, but he can also tell you more about how many times I ask him what my faults are as a player. So where you got this johning business from IDK.
So Im gonna ask you nicely, can you please get off my character's overrated nuts.
Oh and MVD's wins: Esam,Nick Riddle, MJG, Jerm, Mekos, Bizkit, Sebrik, Shaky, Kyon, Mampam, etc.......mediocre?
I think snake is a hard as balls to main, and you have still yet to prove me wrong on that, or for that matter any good player as well.Ive seen good players convert to metaknight and wario, but rarely snake, maybe havok, but thats about it. I want to see you become a snake main in state where you play Gnes, Trela,Razer, Illmatic, Denti, Kprime,Dojo all the time and tell me if you wouldnt be the bitterest snake main ever! All that aside, I do blame snake for alot of things but before that I blame myself as a player more than I blame my character. You can ask Logic how many times I curse olimar, but he can also tell you more about how many times I ask him what my faults are as a player. So where you got this johning business from IDK.
So Im gonna ask you nicely, can you please get off my character's overrated nuts.
Oh and MVD's wins: Esam,Nick Riddle, MJG, Jerm, Mekos, Bizkit, Sebrik, Shaky, Kyon, Mampam, etc.......mediocre?
I don't have anything to prove to you.
But it's good that you know that I don't play this game [I do!] and that I don't attent tourneys [I do!]. At least I don't make false assumptions about anybody though, maybe you should think about doing that as well.
Those wins from MVD are either old or he has horrible records against these players ... or they aren't really good wins. I don't care if you agree or not, he's nothing special. If I see him place well outside of FL locas I'll change my mind.
But it's good that you know that I don't play this game [I do!] and that I don't attent tourneys [I do!]. At least I don't make false assumptions about anybody though, maybe you should think about doing that as well.
Those wins from MVD are either old or he has horrible records against these players ... or they aren't really good wins. I don't care if you agree or not, he's nothing special. If I see him place well outside of FL locas I'll change my mind.
Ralph Cecil
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How did he place in comparison to Razer at Whobo? :O
but yet you wanna overate my character?I don't have anything to prove to you.
At least I don't make false assumptions about anybody though, maybe you should think about doing that as well.
then john about how 'hard' things are as a Snake player. Kinda like Jrugs
but yet you want to reference calzorz?Those wins from MVD are either old or he has horrible records against these players ... or they aren't really good wins. I don't care if you agree or not, he's nothing special. If I see him place well outside of FL locas I'll change my mind.
I think gheb has a point, but he's not very good at explaining it.
I think there is a big difference between ally and everyone else that uses snake (maybe Japan are close, not sure).
Razer would come in second, but I haven't seen him play in a while.
Then there's another gap.
Then there's players like fatal, mvd and bizkit, who are quite similar to each other. They're not bad by any means, but they're not as good as ally or razer.
I think there is a big difference between ally and everyone else that uses snake (maybe Japan are close, not sure).
Razer would come in second, but I haven't seen him play in a while.
Then there's another gap.
Then there's players like fatal, mvd and bizkit, who are quite similar to each other. They're not bad by any means, but they're not as good as ally or razer.
Ralph Cecil
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I think Fatal and Razer are about the same honestly lol. Razer placed fairly bad at Whobo and then Fatal took ANTi to game 5 lol.
I understand gheb point, but he's trying to use it in such a bias way against snake.
MVD+Pika wins= snake can do it probably 45/55 pika or maybe 50/50
Razer,Ally,Fatal+Pikawins= 55/45 maybe 60/40 snake or lolololol snake is soooo broken hahahaha.
Edit: my point: MVD is not as good as Razer or Ally but the fact is any way you cut it, he worked hard to learn the pika with Esam, just as how Razer worked hard to learn the diddy mu with gnes, or how Bizkit and Fatal are probllaly gods at the falco mu/snake ditto. Don't try to discredit MVD's hard work by trying to overhype my character.
MVD+Pika wins= snake can do it probably 45/55 pika or maybe 50/50
Razer,Ally,Fatal+Pikawins= 55/45 maybe 60/40 snake or lolololol snake is soooo broken hahahaha.
Edit: my point: MVD is not as good as Razer or Ally but the fact is any way you cut it, he worked hard to learn the pika with Esam, just as how Razer worked hard to learn the diddy mu with gnes, or how Bizkit and Fatal are probllaly gods at the falco mu/snake ditto. Don't try to discredit MVD's hard work by trying to overhype my character.
definitely not.
and i agree that gheb thinks snake is better than he is.
which is why i ask what mvd does so differently in the mu. if he can beat, or at least play well against, a player who in most respects is better than him, he must be doing something that other snakes, like ally, are not doing.
i want to know what that is.
and i agree that gheb thinks snake is better than he is.
which is why i ask what mvd does so differently in the mu. if he can beat, or at least play well against, a player who in most respects is better than him, he must be doing something that other snakes, like ally, are not doing.
i want to know what that is.
He at WHOBO that he just plays with Esam over and over. I guess its like if I were to ask you Atilla how your so good a the diddy kong mu. You have done a great job in the past about writing about the MU, but there some things you just cant explain, thats just how brawl is There are so many possibilities and scenarios that one can never have a strategy that works...........ever......in brawl you can simply change a match up or your progress by just doing one simple thing instead of changing your whole strategy thats how great this game is. In reality all brawl is is problem solving.
For example Gnes once told me that all Trela started doing differently against Razer's camp game is spot dodging near the edge so Razer's grenades would go right through him.Just as how Razer just simply started spot doging Rich browns pikmin tosses at apex 2012 to avoid damage instead of wasting time having to shake off pikmin. Or another secnario is how Razer would always start placing d smashes near the edge to counter Trela's use of extreme speed to recover, then trela got wise and started using counter to counter his d-smash counter. One interesting thing I see MVD do is use his nikita to cut through annoying sh tjolt spam instead how having to powersheild all the time. I saw an 09' snake use nikita to cut through a yoshi's plank game before, I tried this out on poltergust once, I didnt win but it made things easier.
Edit: Oh and one other thing, can we agree there is no such thing as 2010 ally, like seriously go look at the top five thread and compare how many good players we have today from back then. I mean 2010 there was no Reflex Wario back then just Fiction. Or like when Marth's use to use shield breaker alot against us, until we just waited for shield breaker to extend his hurt box and just up tilt him out of it.
For example Gnes once told me that all Trela started doing differently against Razer's camp game is spot dodging near the edge so Razer's grenades would go right through him.Just as how Razer just simply started spot doging Rich browns pikmin tosses at apex 2012 to avoid damage instead of wasting time having to shake off pikmin. Or another secnario is how Razer would always start placing d smashes near the edge to counter Trela's use of extreme speed to recover, then trela got wise and started using counter to counter his d-smash counter. One interesting thing I see MVD do is use his nikita to cut through annoying sh tjolt spam instead how having to powersheild all the time. I saw an 09' snake use nikita to cut through a yoshi's plank game before, I tried this out on poltergust once, I didnt win but it made things easier.
Edit: Oh and one other thing, can we agree there is no such thing as 2010 ally, like seriously go look at the top five thread and compare how many good players we have today from back then. I mean 2010 there was no Reflex Wario back then just Fiction. Or like when Marth's use to use shield breaker alot against us, until we just waited for shield breaker to extend his hurt box and just up tilt him out of it.
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
So from what I read apparently you can't learn anything from other players unless they're top players? Don't be dumb. Who cares how good mvd is at a national level, that's not the point. The point is he has the most experience in the match up as a snake main.(Pretty much what jrugs was saying) The only match of him vs pikachu on youtube that I found was him vs esam @ whobo 3. Wish they could upload some of their more recent matches/sessions. =/
Only other snake vs pikachu matches that I know of on youtube are False vs Esam, ally vs esam(1 match at sktar) and razer vs esam @ 2012. I haven't looked to see if Z and Kprime have any recent matches vs snake up. I'll check after class tomorrow.
@ The whole thinking snake is better than he is or snake being bad... it's alright to complain about snakes faults. You gotta get that salt out of your system somehow =P Out of all the top tiers everyone just seems to understand Snake the most so every mistake or bad play gets exposed the most often. Who cares though, snake is still top 4 in my eyes
Only other snake vs pikachu matches that I know of on youtube are False vs Esam, ally vs esam(1 match at sktar) and razer vs esam @ 2012. I haven't looked to see if Z and Kprime have any recent matches vs snake up. I'll check after class tomorrow.
@ The whole thinking snake is better than he is or snake being bad... it's alright to complain about snakes faults. You gotta get that salt out of your system somehow =P Out of all the top tiers everyone just seems to understand Snake the most so every mistake or bad play gets exposed the most often. Who cares though, snake is still top 4 in my eyes
Ralph Cecil
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Yeah if MVD isn't getting borderline 3 stocked or something by ESAM then he is probably one of the only Snakes worth watching for the Pika mu lol.
BulletSquall
Smash Rookie
There are a couple videos of MVD solidly beating a few pikachus in pools at WHOBO 4 but idk if you'd consider them really good. However he knew the mu well so he probably made them not look as good lolSo from what I read apparently you can't learn anything from other players unless they're top players? Don't be dumb. Who cares how good mvd is at a national level, that's not the point. The point is he has the most experience in the match up as a snake main.(Pretty much what jrugs was saying) The only match of him vs pikachu on youtube that I found was him vs esam @ whobo 3. Wish they could upload some of their more recent matches/sessions. =/
Only other snake vs pikachu matches that I know of on youtube are False vs Esam, ally vs esam(1 match at sktar) and razer vs esam @ 2012. I haven't looked to see if Z and Kprime have any recent matches vs snake up. I'll check after class tomorrow.
@ The whole thinking snake is better than he is or snake being bad... it's alright to complain about snakes faults. You gotta get that salt out of your system somehow =P Out of all the top tiers everyone just seems to understand Snake the most so every mistake or bad play gets exposed the most often. Who cares though, snake is still top 4 in my eyes
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
Yeah I just finished watching his matches vs Leaf and Cam. He seemed to have outclassed them both by a lot and game 2 was on RC both sets so I ignored them =/ The only mu specific things that I can gather are approach with a nade in hand at low %'s, sdi and cause the nade to trade at low %'s to get out of cg % and ban yoshi's( after watching esam vs razer I can def see why v-v). There was also a lot of ftilt pressure on shield at a certain distance, but I don't know if he did it because its good vs pikachu specifically or if that's just how he likes to use ftilt1. It was never punished so...
Ralph Cecil
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYsI have to defend myself and I will in a few when I'm on a computer, I love the ppl degrading me
I'm pretty excited for this.
ok....
First of all, I wanna thank yall who support me and gimme some form of credit, and I'd be willing to help any of you if you PM me, I like to help ppl 1on1. I have beaten ESAM three times iirc, the one at whobo3 he was playing bad, the other ones were legit wins. Idk why that Gheb ***** hates me so much, I dont understand why you dont consider me anything more than "mediocre", I started playing this game late so excuse me for not having as much exp as the other top snakes. This summer I went to SKTAR and WHOBO4, I was the third highest placing snake at SKTAR, behind Ally and Fatal, and I tied with Razer at whobo. So idk how I do poorly at Nationals. look at whobo, Razer lost to who? Ryo and Nick Riddle... Hmm oh right FL ppl that I beat or go even with. I guess you missed the 2v1 against razer and gnes, cause I dont think anyone in their right mind can legit think I am bad after that. I usually lose to people who have an insane level of snake exp.. look at my losses over the past three months.
Sktar: Koolaid and Bloodcross, they both have so much snake practice and I am known for being bad at the Falco MU.
Whobo: Atomsk and Seibrik. hmmm guess the guy who also beat Ally at whobo and they guy who I train with the most and who is known for beating snakes are both bad losses.
Every tournament since whobo I have only lost to Seibrik. with the exception of me forfeiting to riddle this past weekend due to me being exhausted. oh and I also placed third at our Apex Qualifier this past weekend, I'd like to see other snakes come to FL and try to compete with the ppl I have to go up against all the time. and Gheb, I am pretty sure I've done far more things than you have ever done and what you will ever do in this game, with the exception of hating on people on the boards. come to Apex and money match me if you think im so bad. I have done my very best to get better at this game even tho I do not own the game and barely play, I dont give a **** if anyone thinks im bad at this game, cause at the end of the game, I know it, they know it, and the entire world knows im one of the best snakes in the world. oh and ESAM lives in SC so I dont train with him anymore, I am by far the best at that MU so dont try to discredit me. I'm going to place better when I go OOS and maybe that will shut you the **** up, I dont walk around anywhere bragging about myself, so when others mention me as being a top snake I truly appreciate it, thank all of you who have nothing but good things to say about me. as for the haters, keep that **** alive, I love it, cause in the end, I make yall *****s look bad as ****
First of all, I wanna thank yall who support me and gimme some form of credit, and I'd be willing to help any of you if you PM me, I like to help ppl 1on1. I have beaten ESAM three times iirc, the one at whobo3 he was playing bad, the other ones were legit wins. Idk why that Gheb ***** hates me so much, I dont understand why you dont consider me anything more than "mediocre", I started playing this game late so excuse me for not having as much exp as the other top snakes. This summer I went to SKTAR and WHOBO4, I was the third highest placing snake at SKTAR, behind Ally and Fatal, and I tied with Razer at whobo. So idk how I do poorly at Nationals. look at whobo, Razer lost to who? Ryo and Nick Riddle... Hmm oh right FL ppl that I beat or go even with. I guess you missed the 2v1 against razer and gnes, cause I dont think anyone in their right mind can legit think I am bad after that. I usually lose to people who have an insane level of snake exp.. look at my losses over the past three months.
Sktar: Koolaid and Bloodcross, they both have so much snake practice and I am known for being bad at the Falco MU.
Whobo: Atomsk and Seibrik. hmmm guess the guy who also beat Ally at whobo and they guy who I train with the most and who is known for beating snakes are both bad losses.
Every tournament since whobo I have only lost to Seibrik. with the exception of me forfeiting to riddle this past weekend due to me being exhausted. oh and I also placed third at our Apex Qualifier this past weekend, I'd like to see other snakes come to FL and try to compete with the ppl I have to go up against all the time. and Gheb, I am pretty sure I've done far more things than you have ever done and what you will ever do in this game, with the exception of hating on people on the boards. come to Apex and money match me if you think im so bad. I have done my very best to get better at this game even tho I do not own the game and barely play, I dont give a **** if anyone thinks im bad at this game, cause at the end of the game, I know it, they know it, and the entire world knows im one of the best snakes in the world. oh and ESAM lives in SC so I dont train with him anymore, I am by far the best at that MU so dont try to discredit me. I'm going to place better when I go OOS and maybe that will shut you the **** up, I dont walk around anywhere bragging about myself, so when others mention me as being a top snake I truly appreciate it, thank all of you who have nothing but good things to say about me. as for the haters, keep that **** alive, I love it, cause in the end, I make yall *****s look bad as ****
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
Lol *****. Keep it up MVD
Ayce God
RIP Nova 9
my first time visiting this thread and mvd is ****** folk. its whobo4 all over again
So then, what are we doing wrong in the matchup?
Gnes
Smash Master
JTsm
Smash Master
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Lmao **** you xD
Mvd going hard :3 Since Tech is being inactive as ****, can someone make a IC or Pika MU thread?
AllyKnight
Banned via Administration
Beating someone once after losing 23 times is a horrible odd.
I never said I had a good record against ESAM lol just I've beaten his pika while no other snake has
I've done a write up of pika snake its somewhere lolLmao **** you xD
Mvd going hard :3 Since Tech is being inactive as ****, can someone make a IC or Pika MU thread?
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
First name search in months. MVD, we didn't tie at whobo, I out placed you .
.You got 9th? I coulda sworn you got 13th too if not my mistakeFirst name search in months. MVD, we didn't tie at whobo, I out placed you
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Snake/Pika is ***.
Mike Ray did do exceptionally well...until I realized that all he does is DACUS and really basic **** (I was expecting more) and then I 3 stocked you on your counterpick.
**** is free.
Also, MVD is probably...3rd or 4th Snake in NA next to Razer, Ally, and maybe Havok (since Havok runs away from a lot of MUs with Snake, like Z's Pikachu)
#OnceAYearNamesearch
Also, he is even with NickRiddle this season (you can see that in our new PR), even against Ryo, loses to Seibrik, beat MJG at WHOBO4 the...2nd time they ever played? and whatever other wins are pretty damn recent (Except mampam, he hasn't beat mampam in a while)
Mike Ray did do exceptionally well...until I realized that all he does is DACUS and really basic **** (I was expecting more) and then I 3 stocked you on your counterpick.
**** is free.
Also, MVD is probably...3rd or 4th Snake in NA next to Razer, Ally, and maybe Havok (since Havok runs away from a lot of MUs with Snake, like Z's Pikachu)
#OnceAYearNamesearch
Also, he is even with NickRiddle this season (you can see that in our new PR), even against Ryo, loses to Seibrik, beat MJG at WHOBO4 the...2nd time they ever played? and whatever other wins are pretty damn recent (Except mampam, he hasn't beat mampam in a while)