The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[CBK]

NO no that different than what I'm speaking of, walk grab is fast but the shield cancell is what SK uses.

 

[IC3R]

Yargh.

DK's aerial Spinning Kong comes out in 4 frames, with invincibility during frames 4-6. Kirby's U-Air's hitbox comes out on frame 10. So there has to be a minimum of 7 frames of hitstun, but I'm curious as to how one can measure the hitstun of the F-Throw in frames...

Maybe I'll hit up Colin's simulator...once I figure out how it works >_>;

 

[fromundaman]

Trust me shield grabbed Falco Chain grab you can't escape, snake can't even pull a nade if the grab is done correctly. Invincible we have all the frame data up if you want to look it up.

Some characters can escape via sex kick or even just jumps (Mario, for example, can jump out of it. At least I've been able to vs every Falco I've played).

 

[A1lion835]

Sheik's like, really skinny and bendy

And asidoh has lots of personal experience to back this claim up. XD

 

[NinjaLink]

well explain how DK can escape lucarios fair combo which chars cant normally escape........im confused lol

 

[choice_brawler]

Copy or Starshot?

o_O

I'd say it's viable either way, but it depends on how comfortable you are with Giant Punch, and how likely you think a Kirbycide/Starshot gimp will be. If you like to use Inhale->Starshot as an offensive move onstage, then obviously don't Copy his power. I can see Inhale being a good mixup approach move for DKs that shield and try to grab your aerial approaches. Conversely, Giant Punch is a great KO move with freaking superarmor, and though Kirby's reach isn't as great as Dawnkey Kawng's, it's still deceptively large.

I would imagine that the star shot is more worth while. It puts DK up into the air and thats where we want him. Even better he's up in the air facing FORWARD no bair ^^. The only difficullt part will be getting the inhale cuz im pretty sure his ftilt outranges it and his dtilt too, and thats about the range they like to stay at.

Can we inhale the ape out of his Bair by any chance?
I think FC actually beats his Bair, though he can probably DI out of the second hit then punish our lag, so that might not be a good option.

It's pretty easy to gimp DK though. Yeah, as someone said, they'll be on the lookout for it, but their recovery is bad when it comes to vertical range, and the landing lag on it is atrocious, which doesn't give them a big window to use it when recovering. All they can really try to do is headbutt stall, but we should have enough jumps to wait it out and still drill>footstool them. Personally, I think this is the biggest thing going for us in this matchup. If he tries to recover higher than the stage, don't even bother trying to get above him and drill, just wait on the ground and Fsmash him during his lag.

Also, get DK's power if you can. It's a great kill move that gives SA, and can also be used to survive punches/smashes (Best way to punish a Fsmash if you're in range is with this power). Just remember your range is MUCH smaller than DK's.

The bair does NOT beat inhale unless if they space it poorly. I've been hit in the face by a few bairs trying to do this, it wasnt good. Its like giving DK a free hit which he doesnt need.

I can see DK's punch be good if you're having trouble KO'ing and you've practiced with it. Definitely want to learn the range and when the super armor is and stuff, instead of experimenting mid tourney. I can see it working, but maybe wanna judge how easily you're getting your % in first.

 

[CBK]

Ninja the reason is because they mistime it not because of any other reason or Lucario gets too close when the hitbox appears in the move.

Oh about Falco there are characters that can't be chain grabbed I know this.

 

[MK26]

And now for something completely different...

Discuss how freaking awesome this is.

EDIT: sweet it doesnt stretch the page
Awesome just got better

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

still dont agree with the Falco, olimar, diddy and ganon match ups, but hey my opinion

 

[Lovely]

still dont agree with the Falco, olimar, diddy and ganon match ups, but hey my opinion

♪ I almost agree 100% with you, but my thoughts say that Diddy Kong and Pikmin & Olimar is done right. That's my option as well. :D

 

[Asdioh]

Regarding that chart, my opinion:

-Toon Link should be neutral, rather than 55-45
-I think Mario's at least 60-40, but I really haven't played or discussed this one much, that's just my opinion I guess
-Bowser and Link are probably less drastic than 70-30, though still definitely in Kirby's favor.
-Ice Climbers neutral, rather than 40-60 ^_^
-Olimar neutral, rather than 60-40 v_v
-Diddy Kong anywhere from 45-55 to 55-45, not 60-40 though
-People tell me than Falco is 50-50, I don't see it. I doubt it can be as much as 70-30 though.
-Ganondorf is still iffy for me, even after all that discussion XD I'm not going to be convinced it's anything closer than 60-40 until I experience it firsthand, or see it displayed well
-Dedede is 60-40? lolwut? Anywhere from 55-45 to 50-50
-Donkey Kong may be as much as 40-60 in DK's favor...still being discussed though

Never forget that we're always talking about the top of the top level players for matchups

 

[choice_brawler]

Regarding that chart, my opinion:

-Toon Link should be neutral, rather than 55-45
-I think Mario's at least 60-40, but I really haven't played or discussed this one much, that's just my opinion I guess
-Bowser and Link are probably less drastic than 70-30, though still definitely in Kirby's favor.
-Ice Climbers neutral, rather than 40-60 ^_^
-Olimar neutral, rather than 60-40 v_v
-Diddy Kong anywhere from 45-55 to 55-45, not 60-40 though
-People tell me than Falco is 50-50, I don't see it. I doubt it can be as much as 70-30 though.
-Ganondorf is still iffy for me, even after all that discussion XD I'm not going to be convinced it's anything closer than 60-40 until I experience it firsthand, or see it displayed well
-Dedede is 60-40? lolwut? Anywhere from 55-45 to 50-50
-Donkey Kong may be as much as 40-60 in DK's favor...still being discussed though

Never forget that we're always talking about the top of the top level players for matchups

I'd agree with the bowser being less drastic, and link prolly just to be nice to link =p. Top links are very hard to find so its hard to get match up experience on that.

Diddy Kong is closer to neutral than 60-40 for sure.
Falco has nothing going for him really against kirby's. I saw SK92 playing friendlies with twilight kirby and he was having a very difficult time. SK92, i hear, gets to practice with kirby's pretty frequently in vegas too, so thats saying something. When i got in friendlies with him, he didnt use falco against me though =/ As soon as i chose kirby he switched.

Ganondorf is 55-45 or 50-50, for sure i believe. I played some matches with Salty (it was wifi and stuff but still, i could see what was goin down, not too laggy) and yea the matches were pretty even.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

well explain how DK can escape lucarios fair combo which chars cant normally escape........im confused lol

DK is REALLY F'ing Weird

seriously, his ftilt has clanked with sheiks needles(timing on it is weird, but i've seen this done repeatedly, and other dk's have backed up my claims) only attack in the game that does that. His fthrow does not diminish at all (one of two). we just have come to expect things to be confusing

on the kirby matchup, dk does not get his live forever shenanigans (watch a good dk play peach/diddy/samus/other bad koer and you'll know what i mean) since kirby has decent ko power, BUT, the hammer seems to be shut down due to it being extremely easy to upb momentum break out of(I might just be lucky, not sure).

if dk has really good DI and spacing this will be pretty hard for kirby

also, a note to all kirbys out there, stop going for nothing but grabs for the first 40%, it gets old really quick, and i'll usually get more damage on you from spamming downb, wisen up and just hit him

 

[choice_brawler]

also, a note to all kirbys out there, stop going for nothing but grabs for the first 40%, it gets old really quick, and i'll usually get more damage on you from spamming downb, wisen up and just hit him

Yea i know im guilty of this sometimes. I often force myself not to go for low % grabs while practicing just to break this habit.

on the kirby matchup, dk does not get his live forever shenanigans (watch a good dk play peach/diddy/samus/other bad koer and you'll know what i mean) since kirby has decent ko power, BUT, the hammer seems to be shut down due to it being extremely easy to upb momentum break out of(I might just be lucky, not sure).

Up b momentum break only works on the hammer? Or do you just get sufficient of a warning to time it correctly? Could the up b momentum break possibly leave DK open to another kill move or is it like not all that punishable at all? Vid if possible would be great.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

the hammer seems to hit him out in more of a home run style, meaning a lot of momentum, but less hitstun, which is where the upb works best

the upb brake works on all moves, but we usually die to fast to use it against fsmash (except on japes)

 

[MK26]

Regarding that chart, my opinion:

-Toon Link should be neutral, rather than 55-45
-I think Mario's at least 60-40, but I really haven't played or discussed this one much, that's just my opinion I guess
-Bowser and Link are probably less drastic than 70-30, though still definitely in Kirby's favor.
-Ice Climbers neutral, rather than 40-60 ^_^
-Olimar neutral, rather than 60-40 v_v
-Diddy Kong anywhere from 45-55 to 55-45, not 60-40 though
-People tell me than Falco is 50-50, I don't see it. I doubt it can be as much as 70-30 though.
-Ganondorf is still iffy for me, even after all that discussion XD I'm not going to be convinced it's anything closer than 60-40 until I experience it firsthand, or see it displayed well
-Dedede is 60-40? lolwut? Anywhere from 55-45 to 50-50
-Donkey Kong may be as much as 40-60 in DK's favor...still being discussed though

Never forget that we're always talking about the top of the top level players for matchups

Sorry, forgot to metion top number is our opinion, bottom is the other board's, and it's half-coloured if we havent discussed the matchup yet while full if we have

A bracketed number highlighted in black is an agrement between boards, and a purple number means there's an anomaly, such as the Falcos putting the matchup at 70-30 in out favour while we have it as 60-40

Does the chart look good and all?

 

[choice_brawler]

Sorry, forgot to metion top number is our opinion, bottom is the other board's, and it's half-coloured if we havent discussed the matchup yet while full if we have

A bracketed number highlighted in black is an agrement between boards, and a purple number means there's an anomaly, such as the Falcos putting the matchup at 70-30 in out favour while we have it as 60-40

Does the chart look good and all?

Wow, the falco's really think its 70-30 in our favor? Thats surprising. Probably should look that up so i know why they feel at such a disadvantage, haha.

THe chart itself looks fantastic MK26.

 

[IC3R]

Okay, the DK match-up is dying.

(Kirby) 45 :: 55 (Donkey Kong)

Next plz?

 

[Sky`]

Okay, the DK match-up is dying.

(Kirby) 45 :: 55 (Donkey Kong)

Next plz?

YAH!!

MK PLz kthx.

 

[Asdioh]

(Kirby) 43 :: 57 (Meta Knight)

He has teh sword

and teh speed

and teh everything, basically.

 

[momochuu]

Everything except balance.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Kirby wins this match up

http://youtube.com/watch?v=S2p0JX3dA1M

 

[momochuu]

That MK sucked.

But yeah, I think it's about 45-55 in his favor. If we didn't have BAir, FSmash, and UpTilt...it would be a much harder match.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

that MK was the computer >_>

 

[Asdioh]

When you think about it, MK says "Victory (long pause) is my destiny"

But really, his destiny is to lose to Kirby.

Unless it's Brawl.

Agreed with Bunny, those moves are useful. Except even uptilt isn't that great, MK's moves simply come out faster than ours, as well as beat ours. We have almost no answer to Tornado in the air unless we get lucky spacing and land a Hammer. On the ground, we can beat it with Fsmash easily, unless it's slightly above us, then that sucks.

Stealing MK's power is useless except as a recovery move: most of his moves beat Kirbynado.

Stone edgeguard is too good.

Kirby has a projectile so he can outcamp MK

Grabs, Bair, Fsmash. Those are the key to victory in this match. Make good use of tilts too, but be aware that his dtilt and ftilt beat all yours, lawl.

 

[momochuu]

I know. xD

I played NMiD plenty of times. I still have it actually.

 

[IC3R]

Meta Knight has his own Tier for a reason, but he still lacks Kirby's awesome.

(Kirby) 45 :: 55 (Meta Knight)

Next plz?


EDIT :: Why isn't my Ganondorf Summary posted?!
IMMA LOOKIN @ U MK26!!!1!!!

 

[choice_brawler]

MK really is just like Kirby + steroids + sword - awesome - foot. Throws work wonders against MK i feel, especially dthrow, 11% is like 1/10 his life. He has very little lag on like any attack, and his aerials **** ours. Recovering is such a pain against MK for me =/

 

[A1lion835]

All you have to do is airdodge the shuttle loop, and then he'd fly down to his death in helpless

Sorry. I forgot about the brokenness. MK-sword+foot-brokenness=Kirby

 

[Asdioh]

Throws work wonders against MK i feel, especially dthrow, 11% is like 1/10 his life.

TWELVE PERCENT!

Kirby's Dthrow = 12%
Meta Knight's Dthrow = 11%

Kirby > Meta Knight

 

[fromundaman]

I'm just going to link what I put in the MK thread (follow it to find other very useful posts on this matchup on that same page.).

I just want to say that I have a LOT of experience in this matchup (Iska and I have probably done it over 100 times in the last week), and while pretty much everything said here is true, you guys are leaving a few things out:
-Yeah, we can shieldgrab a Dtilt if we're close, but why would we, considering a well spaced Fsmash beats it and a badly spaced one trades hits.
-A shielded Dsmash is a free grab for Kirby, so don't get predictable with it. It works best as a surprise move (usually for the KO.).
-be warry of Kirby's ground game. Our air game is better, but because of it surprise ground attacks (ftilt, DA, Dtilt) tend to occasionally hit. Don't get caught offguard because you were expecting a Bair or something.
-Copied from one of my previous posts:

Dair beats out SL as long as you position yourself so that the front of the arc doesn't touch you. If it does, then you trade hits (though you don't go flying very far), which can be useful A) offstage: It frustrates your opponent and causes them to expend more jumps. No, you aren't going to gimp MK, and that's not what I'm getting at, but it is easier to hit a recovering MK with fewer jumps than one who's not worried about falling offastage. B) On BF, Lylat, or any other stage where the Dair will spike them into a platform and you can attempt to follow up with one of your faster moves (I usually do Bair or FFed Nair>something).

-Be careful about spamming SL... a shielded SL isn't too hard to punish.
-Our grabs can wreck MK if the player doesn't know how to handle them. Yeah, we can't Gonzo you, but Dthrow chains are incredibly effective. Under 40%, Dthrow>Utilt can only be escaped by a perfectly timed jump/footstool jump thingy that sends you really ****ing high (what iskascribble was talking about). If you try to Dair after the Utilt, you will make me happy, as I will shieldgrab you and do it again. Do that twice and MK goes from 0 to 40. After that, our Dthrow still does great damage and puts you in a bad position.

Kirby's Swallow.
...Is useless. Seriously, when Kirby performs Mach Tornado, only one third of his hits actually have hit-stun, the rest don't. So you can air-dodge, or actually hit him, even while inside the Mach Tornado. It even has a much smaller range than Meta Knight's Mach Tornado. Fair, ftilt, up-B...anything that has more range hits him out of it (since Meta Knight's moves don't clash and hit the opponent directly), and you can make him lose the ability easily, because a lot of Meta Knight's moves have multiple hits (not that you should worry about him losing the ability or not, since it's not all that useful).

See, I don't understand why so many Kirby mains can't understand this... While inhale is situational, it can hit, and at worst, it's still better than a move that's going to deal 2-3% before you break out and hit me with a Dair/Fair (I don't know what percent that is, but it's definitely higher than what Kirby-nado does...). If Kirby DOES take that, I'd let him keep it; he's the one losing out...

On top of that, our Ftilt outrange the first 2 hits of Ftilt.

 

[SheerMadness]

Kirby can't really approach defensive Metaknights who know what they're doing.

 

[DFat2]

TWELVE PERCENT!

Kirby's Dthrow = 12%
Meta Knight's Dthrow = 11%

Kirby > Meta Knight

What more do you need than this? You people don't know how to appreciate pure genius :/

 

[~Gonzo~]

Sheer yes they can, i prefer to play against defensive MKs and aggressive MKs but not super smart MKs like Omni lol.

THey just play **** style.

 

[Asdioh]

So how does Kirby approach defensive MKs? Keep in mind that imo, almost every shield/dodge a MK does could be better spent attacking.

So you try to approach from the air: you get Grounded Shuttle Looped.
You try to approach him while he's in the air...tornado, or Dair/Fair outprioritize you.

I recently realized that I haven't played against a MK in over a month. O_O

 

[A1lion835]

THey just play **** style.

Yea. Whenever I play a good MK I know, whenever I try to use rock, he uses shuttle loop and hits me before I finish transforming, even though I'm 6 Kirbies higher than him.

 

[choice_brawler]

Yea. Whenever I play a good MK I know, whenever I try to use rock, he uses shuttle loop and hits me before I finish transforming, even though I'm 6 Kirbies higher than him.

Dude seriously i get the same thing T_T. They should implement a hitbox right before the transformation thats even stronger than the stone, just for MK.

With defensive MK, i figure once you manage to get up in his face you go for all da moneys. Dont let him escape without dying.

 

[IC3R]

lol, I hardly have any experience against MK.

 

[SheerMadness]

Sheer yes they can, i prefer to play against defensive MKs and aggressive MKs but not super smart MKs like Omni lol.

THey just play **** style.

Right... a smart defensive Metaknight is insanely hard to approach.

 

[fromundaman]

You really shouldn't be playing very aggressive vs MK, reguardless what type of MK it is. This matchup requires you to play very defensive.

As for getting around SL, if you see your opponent is very SL happy, you have several options:

-You are above them and in range: Dair. Try to position yourself so the front of MK doesn't hit you.
-You are SHing and think MK is going to SL: Air dodge. You can't beat grounded SL on startup, but you can **** him afterwards, especially if you get behind him.
-You are on the ground: Shield it, then punish.

Basically, when against grounded SL, never try to beat it. Ever. What you have to do is not get hit by the initial hit then punish them when they are in the air. If they try to glide attack, a well spaced Bair will clash with it and send them into a prolongued state of freefall. If you're behind them, there's not much they can do to avoid a Bair. If they're getting close to reaching the ground to follow up with a Dsmash, SH a Bair (but watch out they don't pull out glide attack while you start your SH.

If MK is using a lot of tornado, he is doing you a giant favor. Tornado can be beaten with a Fsmash, inhale, or a Bair if you come down at the right angle, as well as a Nair or Dair in the center of it. I think Dsmash may also beat it, but I don't remember. You can also pivot grab it if you're close to the ground.

To the people talking about stone: NEVER use it in this matchup unless you are absolutely certain it will hit. MK can punish it just about anywhere with a SL (Startup on SL < the time it takes you to regain control of Kirby while breaking out of the rock.).

For his aerials: Dair and Nair suck (for us). Really hard. Other than that, his other aerials aren't too bad, but his Dair especially will hurt. Watch out for Footstool to Dair, and try to avoid it when recovering. Onstage just remember to count his jumps and that he has to land sometime, and when he does, rush in and shieldgrab him.