The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[MK26]

Oh, and before anyone asks, you'll have to hijack the thread if you want to change the topic to Meta Knight

Okay, the DK match-up is dying.

(Kirby) 45 :: 55 (Donkey Kong)

Next plz?

YAH!!

MK PLz kthx.

(Kirby) 43 :: 57 (Meta Knight)

He has teh sword

and teh speed

and teh everything, basically.

-_____________-

Wow, the falco's really think its 70-30 in our favor? Thats surprising. Probably should look that up so i know why they feel at such a disadvantage, haha.

THe chart itself looks fantastic MK26.

Meta Knight has his own Tier for a reason, but he still lacks Kirby's awesome.

(Kirby) 45 :: 55 (Meta Knight)

Next plz?


EDIT :: Why isn't my Ganondorf Summary posted?!
IMMA LOOKIN @ U MK26!!!1!!!

Read the sig...

In other news...i havent been active much lately. Sorry for the inconvenience

I'm losing track here. Week 20b

Meta Knight

Doppelganger? Or copying the copycat?​

Difficulty rating: 45-55​

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I'm pretty sure almost everyone might know Meta Knight's match up since he's everywere in the tourney area. 45:55 sound just about right, but since I'm biased, I'll say 50:50 because it seems that way. More Power better Grabs = Kirby. Faster Attacks, better recovery = Meta Knight. That's my logic. ☆

 

[fromundaman]

It probably seems that way because EVERYONE seems to know the MK matchup, but a lot of them don't know the Kirby matchup.
In reality he does have solutions to almost everything we do, and the same is true of us. It's just easier for him since for the most part he won't have to think about it, since grounded SL beats everything. If we know it's coming, we can punish it, but if we are for any reason approaching, it will punish every approach we have (except dash to shield).



(Oh, and any chance we could cover the Kirby ditto next? I know the number but not how to play the matchup. Mario's another one I think we should cover sometime soon, if only because no one seems to know what to expect of him.)

 

[Asdioh]

Why would we cover Kirby dittos? >_>

That's like, the matchup I know best, actually. If he grabs you at 0%, he will deal 18% at most, and no more. Fthrow->uair is inescapable, but the followups aren't. Dthrow->utilt is escapable, DI up + jump + airdodge.

...Bair is a good move. Uair is a good move when you're below him. He's surprisingly easy to gimp with Dair. People always assume I'm going to recover right up to the stage when they knock me off, and they Dair, but I recover differently since it's so obvious they're going to try to Dair.

For example, if someone knocks me off towards the bottom of Yoshi's Island, they usually think I'll recover right next to the wall, and they'll Dair downwards, right next to the wall. But I will usually go arouuuuuund since I have 5 jumps. I can usually gimp THEM instead by doing this.

Punish Final Cutter by rolldodging in front of or behind your opponent, timing it so that you dodge the beam, and land next to them, and you can easily punish.

Inhale is pretty good in this matchup, Kirby doesn't have much to beat it. It's surprising how often Kirbys fall for their own signature move >_>

Stone edgeguard...is alright.

Grounded Hammer to punish predicted Fsmashes, dash attacks (requires really good timing and prediction), Final Cutters, or whiffed dashgrabs.

Whoever Fsmashes first is going to lose that skirmish, because a shielded fsmash can be punished by ... fsmashing.

So basically, to fight a Kirby ditto: play somewhat defensively. Shieldgrabs are your friend. Spotdodge rarely is your friend. Don't get hit by Fsmash...easiest way to land Fsmash (besides the Dair or Dtilt combo) is to shield their Fsmash, and punish with your own. Bair.

That's really all there is to it... Kirby is so easy to read >_>

 

[Affinity]

It's either 45-55 or 40-60 easily. I'm leaning much more towards 45-55 though.


I found a good explanation of how the match-up looks from Kirby's point of view:

[Kirby has] a good match-up against MK. It's funny because Kirby is also a character that doesn't have many weaknesses: he's small, hard to hit, has a quick grab with crazy grab range, one of the best f-smashes in the game, a b-air that goes through almost all of MK's moves, a nice 0% - 35%+ combo, great recovery, and very useful tilts.

Here's what you do.
1.) Perfect the timing for nailing f-smashes or grabs on MK's that air dodge toward the ground from the air. The only thing MK can do against Kirby when he's above him is spaced d-airs; besides that, he's completely vulnerable. When an MK is trying to attack from above, just shield and respond with an up-tilt or a quick b-air.

2.) Once MK's stop trying to attack from above, they'll realize they have a better chance coming at you face to face. However, since MK is always in the air (or can be knocked in the air), it's good for you always position yourself under MK by running under him and trying to stay under him. The reason for this is because when MK -really- wants to land to get his ground game going, the most habitual tactic is to air dodge to the ground. As said before well-timed f-smashes and grabs will get you either an early kill, or a grab that will put MK back into the air to repeat the process.

3.) Speaking of grabs, always f-throw at 0%. At low %'s, do d-throw. If the MK doesn't DI correctly, you CAN combo this into an aerial.

4.) Space your b-airs. It's almost IMPOSSIBLE for a MK to break Kirby's WOP since he can immediately follow up his b-air with an up-tilt. If you space correctly and patiently, most MK's will switch to a style where they come dash in range and shield in order to make you whiff. If you can SEE this play style developing, be a step ahead and go in for a dash grab.

5.) Once they feel uncomfortable with the ground/shield game, MK's will then attempt to space their f-airs either defensively or offensively. If it's defensively, it's a WOP battle, but if its offensively... hooray! Your b-air goes through his f-air each time if you space it correctly.

6.) Edgeguard MK. Again, your b-air is awesome. It goes through his glide attack. If he tries to smarten up and tries to use tornado, have a f-smash prepped because guess what...? F-smash also goes through tornado. This is how you can get so many kills against MK because most of them won't be DI'ing correctly and/or expecting it.

Asidioh, I could go ON and ON and ON about this match-up. The most important thing I can tell you is that you're not losing to MK just because MK is a better character. You're mainly losing to MK because you're not thinking ahead enough steps in the future. Great players find patterns and habits before the end of the first stock. If you get better at this (mindgames), it will make your matches against MK infinitely easier. Guaranteed.

-Affinity

 

[Asdioh]

I remember that post.

It just sounds so... convincing.

But...what about Shuttle Loop? Tornado in the air? The fact that MKs can gimp us 10x easier than we can gimp them?

alkjfjkjerg

 

[fromundaman]

Affinity, that post is very much outdated.

1) Rising Dairs from MK beat Utilts, and if he decides to tornado from right above you, there isn't much you can do except shield.

2) Or he could just go for the edge instead of airdodging to the ground. I mean how many times are you going to eat that Fsmash before you learn it's a bad idea? Also, DC to the ground is better than AD, as it is much harder to punish.

3) No. It is very easy for MK to DI out of the Gonzo combo, and I think he can hit us out of it too. At most, we'll get 18% from it. Dthrow>Utilt is much better (though stop the Utilts at 40%, or you will get Daired).

4) WoP is very useful in this matchup, but not impossible to get around. I'm not sure exactly how to do it, but DJ_Iskascribble has so far almost always made it out.

5) Which is when MK baits your Bair and does a grounded SL.

6) Edgeguarding MK is MUCH harder than that. For one, Drill will always beat out our Bair. For some reason our Dair beats it, but Bair will not. Also, Bair does NOT go through Glide Attack. If well spaced, it will clash with it, which for some reason puts you guys in a prolongued period of freefall (if after a SL, if not it just feels like you guys have a bit of hitstun, which is strange...) and makes you slide forward faster than if you'd just done glide attack normally.
Also, if you come from above or below us, our Bair will not be anywhere near as useful. basically, unless the MK player charges into our feet, we aren't going to reliably gimp MK.

As for the tornado... I played against a MK player I've never played before Saturday. While the outcome is irrelevant (I messed up at the end and got gimped, though I nearly won it), he tried to tornado twice. I Fsmashed it both times. He stopped using tornado. Most people will not keep doing something they see gets punished, so we will not get 'most of our kills' from Fsmashing tornadoes. Maybe one or two per game/set, but I really hope that doesn't constitute 'most'.



Finally, MK can gimp Kirby MUCH, MUCH more easily than we gimp him. Reverse Dair just ***** Kirby.


I'm not saying that it shouldn't be 45-55, because that seems accurate, but that post seems completely wrong. Your matchup guide has much more up-to-date info on it.

 

[Asdioh]

I find it hard to believe that MK falls victim to Dthrow->uptilt at 0%, when I as Kirby can escape the Uptilt just by DI upwards, with a jumping airdodge.

Isn't MK lighter? >_>

 

[Affinity]

*Many, many words*

Oh, my bad

 

[fromundaman]

I find it hard to believe that MK falls victim to Dthrow->uptilt at 0%, when I as Kirby can escape the Uptilt just by DI upwards, with a jumping airdodge.

Isn't MK lighter? >_>

I don't think so. In any case DIing upwards and airdodging doesn't work. I've tested this many times before. He can however get some sort of weird footstool superjump thing to get out if he times it right.

Oh, my bad

No worries. And yeah, my posts tend to be fairly lengthy.

 

[A1lion835]

I don't think so. In any case DIing upwards and airdodging doesn't work. I've tested this many times before. He can however get some sort of weird footstool superjump thing to get out if he times it right.

He IS lighter (even though he wears that mask, which looks like it's made of solid metal, and he's the same size as us...wtf?). And the jump thing... I'm not exactly sure how it works, but you know how you can buffer a jump and always stay in the air, but only above solid ground? Well, it's possible to do that on characters, even if they're offstage. Also...if he can SL after our fthrow (or *insert name of attack MK uses to get out of fthrow>uair here*), why wouldn't he be able to do that out of dthrow>utilt?

 

[fromundaman]

He IS lighter (even though he wears that mask, which looks like it's made of solid metal, and he's the same size as us...wtf?). And the jump thing... I'm not exactly sure how it works, but you know how you can buffer a jump and always stay in the air, but only above solid ground? Well, it's possible to do that on characters, even if they're offstage. Also...if he can SL after our fthrow (or *insert name of attack MK uses to get out of fthrow>uair here*), why wouldn't he be able to do that out of dthrow>utilt?

I don't know... If I remember correctly, you were the one who said they could get out of Fthrow>Uair with an attack. I just know they can DI out after a Uair.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

my kirby got owned by a mk today

then my diddy owned him back

kthxbai

 

[A1lion835]

Um...just wanted to know.

When did suspect become a troll? I definitely remember him not being one...

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

few months ago

 

[fromundaman]

Um...just wanted to know.

When did suspect become a troll? I definitely remember him not being one...

You must have a short term memory...

But yeah, on topic, I seriously think we could just copy/paste the summary from the MK boards. They have it right.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Wow, the Meta Knight talk just died.... which character should we move on to next? ☆

 

[freddybones]

Someone mentioned Mario and I'm going to aree just because I always fight a really good Mario and he kicks my *** on a regular basis.
I know our matchup is supposed to be better, but I don't see why. I guess I just don't know the match up like I should. I'm well aware he's a considerably better player, but he 3 stocks me from time to time. That's just shameful for me.

 

[Triple R]

Not that it makes any difference, but tid bits are always fun to know. I just wanted to say that aerial hammer can trade hits with meta knights sideb drill. I've only done it once and is very pointless to try to pull off.

As far as the match up goes. Pretty much anything I can think of has been mentioned already. For so reason I find it effective to recover with fairs. Sometimes you can be level horizontally with them off stage and time a fair in between their dairs.

For the next match up we should do falcon. Should be quick. Just duck and half of his moves go over you.

 

[IC3R]

☆ Wow, the Meta Knight talk just died.... which character should we move on to next? ☆

I know, man. I wish all of our match-up discussions could be super-heated like with Ganondorf. I actually wanted to be a part of it. But DK and MK are just....whatever...

Both match-ups are easily 45 :: 55 in D/MK's favor.

Next should be Capt. Falcon, I'm thinking. We've already done Mario.

 

[choice_brawler]

I support Captain Falcon next. Prolly should cover all match ups before we revisit any.

 

[freddybones]

We've already done Mario.

My bad. It wasn't on the front page. I'd to go look at that.

 

[fromundaman]

But I think the Mario discussion is outdated... I mean, we can do CF too, but I want to revisit Mario as well (personally I think it's either even or barely in Mario's favor, though since I play both characters but have never actually PLAYED this matchup, I could be wrong.).

 

[IC3R]

Here's fromundaman's post on the Kirby vs. Craptain Failcon:

Not exactly a matchup I've played much, but Kirby vs Falcon will generally end badly for Falcon.

As was previously mentioned, Kirby can crouch under a lot of your attacks, and since Dtilt brings Kirby into a crouch, he can pretty much Dtilt a lot of Falcon's moves. Inhale will also pull Falcon out of a lot of his moves, but it has a long startup, so it really won't be used that often.

Also, I believe Kirby's Bair outranges all of Falcon's aerials except maybe his Uair, and is without a doubt one of our most used aerials.

If Falcon works like Ganon, then we should be able to Dair you out of your recovery, which makes gimping you really quite easy.
Also, does your UpB beat our stone? If not, then stone edgeguarding is also fairly effective.

Also, against Kirby you should expect Gonzo combos, and even after you are out of the percent range for it, be wary of our grabs. Kirby has a grab range that is abnormally large for his tiny arms and comes out quite fast.

We can also combo fairly well with other moves. For example, a FFed Fair, while it can be shieldgrabbed, leads into anything else if not shielded. Utilt combos into a Bair or itself. Dtilt can combo into grabs or Fsmashes, and Dair can combo into just about anything else.

While our hammer is powerful, it is very situational, and our Fsmash is most likely going to be our kill move. A hyphen Usmash seems to work fairly well too, but not too many Kirbies use it due to the ending lag (Dsmash is rarely seen due to a relatively low range and high ending lag.).

Hope that helps.

Edit: Oh, and just so you know, our version of the PAWNCH! makes us rise a little, so don't get caught off guard by a rising PAWNCH!.

I agree with this, pretty much.

 

[MK26]

We've done Mario?

New vote:
Mario - 3.5 (big freddy, fromundaman, Maestro)
CF - 3 (Triple R, Ic3r, choice)
ICs
Luigi
Bowser
Ness
Samus
Sonic
Link
Jigglypuff

 

[IC3R]

We've done Mario?

I thought we did, but I guess not...

I just looked through the OP and I was looking for "fireballs" but no luck.

 

[Lord Viper]

Both match-ups are easily 45 :: 55 in D/MK's favor.

☆ Only thing I'll agree to is the Meta Knight match up, but 45:55 Donkey Kong I will not agree to in a few levels.

Also, I vote Luigi. ☆

 

[fromundaman]

☆ Only thing I'll agree to is the Meta Knight match up, but 45:55 Donkey Kong I will not agree to in a few levels.

Also, I vote Luigi. ☆

Why not? (I haven't actually played this matchup much, though I probably will soon since my friend is thinking of picking him up as a secondary. From the few matches we've done, it seems to be slightly in DK's favor though.)

 

[Lord Viper]

Why not? (I haven't actually played this matchup much, though I probably will soon since my friend is thinking of picking him up as a secondary. From the few matches we've done, it seems to be slightly in DK's favor though.)

☆ You have to remember that Kirby can combo Donkey Kong easily if your getting pass his gay hit box attacks, and he's easily gimped and Metor Smashed when he's comming back. ☆

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

"can" and "if" used in the same sentence does not prove anything

 

[fromundaman]

Indeed he can be. However, he CAN also keep you at bay the whole game if he has good spacing, not to mention he has a LOT of kill options. He can also get quite a few spikes on us.

The way I see it, DK has the advantage on the ground, but Kirby ***** him offstage.
Our grabs are better though.

 

[MK26]

Mario it is

gogogo

 

[A1lion835]

Mario...

fthrow>uair, as many of us know, doesn't work on Mario. So none of that.

I think fromundamam will know a lot, given that he plays both of them...

 

[freddybones]

His forward smash has at least as big a range as yours if he pivots it, and it can be aimed up or down. That coupled with a guy that likes to use fireballs means he's hard to aproach, at least from the ground anyway.

 

[IC3R]

His forward smash has at least as big a range as yours if he pivots it, and it can be aimed up or down. That coupled with a guy that likes to use fireballs means he's hard to aproach, at least from the ground anyway.

Kirby is a very aerial-oriented character, so that's not much of a worry. Kirby can easily steal Mario's Fireball power and spam right back (only better), but Mario will most like either Powershield them, or knock them back with his Cape. Either option will leave him wide open, depending on where Kirby is when he's Fireball spamming. Mario has some pretty good Out-of-Shield options, like his Super Jump Punch, but I don't really know if he can do it straight out of a Powershield (it's been a little while since I've played any Smash at all). Mario can probably out-do Kirby on the ground, so our goal should be to get him in the air...

Although, even in the air Mario can be dangerous. His B-Air is a bit faster than Kirby's and they hit just about as hard, not to mention his U-Air is a good utility aerial that can link into itself. Mario can use his Cape in the air to turn around for a B-Air wall, or to flip Kirby's attack around, leaving the little puffball wide open for attack. But thanks to the weird glitch with Cape-Jumping, doing rising aerials will save Kirby should he get knocked away by the Cape. Anyway, approaching with N-Airs could help in Kirby's case since it has a circular hitbox, as opposed to the F-Air and B-Air which hit in front and behind, respectively. Mindgaming could come in handy here: if the Mario player uses the Cape rather well defensively, switch up the aerials. Do a B-Air when it normally wouldn't hit, get Caped, and Mario gets some big feet in his face.

I dunno. This is all theory, really. I don't play as any of the Mario Bros. characters, so I could just be spouting off nonsense (and not being able to play the game doesn't help at all >_<)


-IC3R, Official Star Warrior

 

[A1lion835]

Bair actually hits both sides. And I think fair hits a little bit behind him.

And what cape jumping glitch?

 

[IC3R]

Bair actually hits both sides. And I think fair hits a little bit behind him.

orly?

And what cape jumping glitch?

Have a friend Cape you as you jump; you should be sent WAY high...

 

[Lord Viper]

Mario it is

gogogo

☆ I guess I'm down with that, since Mario is one of my top five mains and all. No big trouble for Kirby in this match up, just watch out for the Fire Ball camp, good Cape users don't underestimate his FLUDD, and his killer F-Smash. x_x

Mario's recovery can lead him into trouble, so when your able to gimp him, take that chance. You can take his power so you can help think of some new ways to combo as well. My over all thoughts, hmm, I'll say 55-45 Kirby or even what ever's the case. ☆

 

[Matt07]

Hey, I'll try to throw in some contributions in this thread.

Pros+Cons:
+/-Mario and Kirby tie for range in the air (I think they trade hits)
+/-Mario and Kirby K.O eachother at around the same percent.
-Mario can Fireball camp forcing you to react to them sometimes.
-Mario can utilt/u-air combo, but Kirby can break out at 30-50%?
-Mario can up B out of Gonzo Combo (I'm fairly sure)
-Mario out ranges Kirby on the ground.
-I'm unaware of Kirby's frame data, so I don't know who aerials are faster.
+Kirby is slightly hard to Cape, but if your too careless and up B, expect a Cape.
+Kirby's swallow, followed by a d-air offstage is probably a gauranteed gimp.
+Mario isn't too hard to 'gimp'.
+You can steal Mario's Fireball's helping which will help you approach, or make it harder to gimp offstage.




Watch out for:
F smash- This move as amazing range, with a stutter step. The sourspot can still K.O Kirby fairly early.

D-throw - Mario will use this grab at low %'s to get you into a u-air combo.

Fireball - Fireball doesn't have the best priority, but it forces you to react to it by either shielding, dodging, etc, which we can punish your reactions to the Fireball. They help with approaching/retreating. Mario might use this offstage to protect himself from Kirby's offstage game.

Cape - Cape reverses your momentum, and if you throw out an aerial, we can cape it and punish you. Also, we can Cape your Final Cutter so beware how you recovery offstage.

Super Jump Punch - If your pressuring us, we can up B out of shield to interrupt a combo, or halt an approach. This move gains invincibility frames at the start, and can racks up 10% if it connects with all hits. However, if the Mario misses with this move you can get a free usmash/fsmash/etc.

 

[Matador]

We've discussed this on our boards already and have it as 55:45 Kirby. It's pretty even for the most part in gimping and kill power. They both have great combos as well. The deciding factor is Kirby's superior aerial range; usually he'll beat Mario going head to head in the air. It's not a huge thing, but it's enough to give Kirby the nod.

Overall, this is a pretty even match.