The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[Kirk]

Who. Called. That?

BTW, by wading through all the spam, I've come to a few conclusions:
1) Ike has to play super defensively, campy, and mistake-free if he wants to win. A single mistake on his part can easily bring him to 50% or more --And a single mistake on your part will get you killed at 50%
2) The onus is on Ike to control the tempo of the match - if the Kirby overwhelms him, gg next stock. If he doesn't, the Ike can keep getting chip damage until Kirby is in kill percent range --More or less.
3) Ike players underestimate Kirby's F-smash --Not good to generalize. Most people know Kirby's Fsmash is quite good.
4)Both swallow and spit out are good choices --I say spit is the better option. But that's just me.
5) Simple way for Kirby to win: stay on the ground. Run toward Ike. Shield. Shieldgrab. Beat the **** outta Ike. Rinse. Repeat. Profit. No ????? here. Just profit. --If you're going to approach with shield all day, I'll just go in and grab you first. See what I did there? :o No one strategy can completely shut down a character...
6) Ike has weight, range, and power going for him (and his jab) --Yes...yes...yes...and **** yes.
7) Kirby has attack speed, grab game, edgeguarding and anti-edgeguarding --Agree here to.

Can somebody list all the good and bad stages in this matchup? --Ike tends to do well on Battlefield, Pirate Ship, small stages, stages with platforms, close blastzones, etc. Bad stages include Jungle Japes...i can't think of any at the moment... :/

There's the player preference issue here as well...i.e. some Ikes, like myself, are fine with Rainbow Cruise and can play the stage to Ike's strengths well. While others can't handle it because it forces you in the air a lot and it beats up on Ike's poor recovery.

And I just don't see how Ike can get around Kirby's dashing shieldgrab approach. He has almost everything covered, but it's way too easy for Kirby to get inside if he just dash --> shield --> grab --> pwn. If somebody could explain this to me, I can see that its 55-45 in Kirby's favour or neutral. But if Ike just doesnt have a solid counter, the matchup is no less than Kirby's favour
--Like I said before...I'll just grab you if you approach with shield all the time. Other options include simply retreating back or jumping away...because it'd be silly to attack a shield now wouldn't it? And if you start spotdodging...I'll just hold A. But then I'm going into "If this, then that" scenarios...and that wouldn't be very productive. Regardless, there are options to beat...shielding? :o


The autocanceling misnomer has really been bothering me. There's no no such thing as autocanceling. Nothing is canceled, automatically or not. It's just varying stages of landing lag, depending on when the aerial is landed. Aerials have had multiple landing lag windows since Smash 64, but everybody Z/L-canceled, so nobody ever figured it out because nobody ever took the time to not Z/L-cancel. If you need proof, fire up your N64 and take a look at Fox's B-air. Almost any time in the aerial, it has massive landing lag. But if you land before the hitbox comes out, there's almost no lag at all.

Thesis: stop calling it autocanceling!
--There is in fact autocanceling. Ike's Bair is a perfect example. Peformed in the air, one can see how long the attack lasts before you can take another action(55 frames to be exact). When performed immediately after a short hop, the Bair clearly lands before the animation is over(I've measured it landing ~37 frames in), but with none of the normal landing lag(only the universal landing lag a character gets upon landing, 2 frames).

This is what autocanceling refers to.

Stuffs in cyan.

 

[Kinzer]

Kirk, try D3s chaingrab on the unlucky 5/6. :O

I'll shut up now.

BTW you just love the color Cyan now don't you?

 

[Kirk]

Oh I see what you did there... >.>

And yes...cyan is quite a pleasing color, no?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

I know that Kirby ***** Ike which is apparently more than you know.

Anyone on smashboards that played competitive melee for any decent length of time will agree that melee players are MUCH smarter players than those who didn't. That is what "elite join daters" have over 08 brawl noobs like yourself Kinzer.

Truth.

but dont even bother arguing anymore.

 

[Asdioh]

mogx is too good though


-mikehaze on tofu's account

I keep hearing about mogx... I just looked for some vids, he has two Kirby videos that are 5 months old... I hear he's good though. ... ?

And apparently you know more than the Kirby mains/Kirby boards.

D***it why am I still talking to you?

Can somebody else besides this troll agree/disagree with my points?

hi

your post was good and stuff

Jab canceling/combat walking. He can just continuously use his first 2 jabs over and over. You drop the shield, jab beats out grab in both speed and range. (Frame 3 > Frame 6/7, what ever frame it is that grab comes out). If you keep the shield up, we can cancel the jab into a grab.

Or we could use a SH'd retreating Fair/Nair to keep you back. If it's Nair, Kirby is probably just within jab range upon landing.

This is true. Kirby requires ridiculous timing to dash in, powershield and grab an Ike camping aerials.


When I said "dthrow chase" it seems people misunderstood me. It doesn't matter what percentage Ike is at, or if he double jumps. All I mean to say is that his options are limited after you dthrow him: he can go left, right, or straight down, but he has to land on the ground sometime, and Kirby will be waiting with shield and grab ready to repeat the process. Obviously it's escapable, but Ike has some difficulty getting out of it.


Ike mains:

IKE DITTOS! NAO!

And I'll play Kirby too.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Arturo and Nidtendofreak is gonna feel my wrath at Final Smash 5 with kirby and ike and if i have to use my main ill change the MM to 10$

 

[kirbz]

asdioh,

would you take an ike to brinstar?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

take anyone to brinstar if ur kirby



except another kirby >_>

 

[kirbz]

take anyone to brinstar if ur kirby



except another kirby >_>

why not another kirby?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

I mean u can but the other kirby will do good also so why CP your self? Might as well take it to FD or something, but if you are just really good on brinstar (asdioh) then yea go ahead and take em there.

 

[Sino]

brinstar isn't that good for kirby imo, frigate is beter i think. I hate brinstar because that thing in the middle of the stage.
Anyway, I don't have much trouble against a ike. Just grab a lot, roll en shield and don't get in his smashes. kirby's grab is faster than ike's jab.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

I always CP Rainbow cruise anyways.

 

[SaltyKracka]

brinstar isn't that good for kirby imo, frigate is beter i think. I hate brinstar because that thing in the middle of the stage.
Anyway, I don't have much trouble against a ike. Just grab a lot, roll en shield and don't get in his smashes. kirby's grab is faster than ike's jab.

lawlno

tenlawls

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

lawlno

tenlawls

lawlyes

its a ok stage at that.

i think RC and Green greens are better

 

[SaltyKracka]

lawlyes

its a ok stage at that.

i think RC and Green greens are better

I meant the thing about Kirb's grab being faster than Ike's jab. Otherwise, Ike is okay on Brinstar, doesn't do as well on RC, and is very good on Green Greens.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Oh, when i mentioned those CP's i was not talking about just for ike, i was talking in general. Don't take Ike to pirate ship >_>

 

[SaltyKracka]

Oh, when i mentioned those CP's i was not talking about just for ike, i was talking in general. Don't take Ike to pirate ship >_>

Or Corneria, or Norfair, or BF really. Ike loves small stages.

 

[Asdioh]

asdioh,

would you take an ike to brinstar?

well since I like it so much, probably. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUU_ZWhgO1M I have some clips against Ike...you see him get an uptilt kill which is really easy to do on the top platform. Something interesting happens at about 3:46 - he gets knocked down on those cylinders, and then he does his "get up attack" and it somehow destroys them and makes him fall.

And that's always fun :D

There are definitely better stages to pick against Ike though. The close sides and ceiling can help him more than you, and gimping might not work if the acid comes up. Still, I'd probably play it because I have the advantage on that stage simply by playing it more than my opponent.

Too bad Allisbrawl removed it from the counterpick lists for the winter ladder. -_-

That means no more "he only won because of the stage" comments for me XD

 

[Pixler132]

Well you guys are saying who's better against kirby you guys don't seam to mention metaknight Why I HAVEN'T seen much on kirby vs. metaknight matchups

 

[Hoser]

Because they are doing it one character at a time. They haven't gotten to him yet.

 

[kirbz]

Well you guys are saying who's better against kirby you guys don't seam to mention metaknight Why I HAVEN'T seen much on kirby vs. metaknight matchups

i suggested it, but we did ike.

 

[Kinzer]

i suggested it, but we did ike.

You sound like you didn't want us here.

Ike mains:

IKE DITTOS! NAO!

And I'll play Kirby too.

So ya herd I liek Asdiohs? (reference)

Just leave a visitor's message, I should respond as soon as I get it.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I think it's funny we discussed Ike over MK. Ike is a cp char and there are so many better Kirby cp's. MK is a threat THAT NEEDS TO BE FUGGIN ADRESSED GOD ****IT.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

I think it's funny we discussed Ike over MK. Ike is a cp char and there are so many better Kirby cp's. MK is a threat THAT NEEDS TO BE FUGGIN ADRESSED GOD ****IT.

yea like a ban

a long with snake (over powered broken *** >_>)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs Ike, shouldn't Kirby just be able to B-air out of shield 95% of everything Ike does?

 

[Falconv1.0]

yea like a ban

a long with snake (over powered broken *** >_>)

....That was beyond facepalms good sir. Notice how the people who are good with other chars understand the match and dont whine.


Actually, you're right, ban MK/Snake even though IT WIIL CHANGE ABSO ****ING LUTELY NOTHING.

 

[kirbz]

You sound like you didn't want us here.

meh, u guys are ok.

 

[MK26]

Vs Ike, shouldn't Kirby just be able to B-air out of shield 95% of everything Ike does?

Either that or shieldgrab, depending on which way Kirby's facing.

I can see this as 55-45 Kirby's favour, but I can also see it as 60-40. Hmmm...what about comparing Ike to other characters? I see Ike as much less of a threat than TL. It's a close match, but is it close enough to warrant a 55-45? I don't know.

And I chose to do Ike this week because of the massive discrepancy between our rating of the matchup and their rating.

 

[Wyvern-x]

I'd love to see a kirby shield grab a tipped fair...

 

[A1lion835]

God... I had this monstrous wall of text, but then my internet died THE SECOND I TRIED TO POST it and I lost it. I'll work on it again...

BTW, Kirby vs Ike is nowhere near 55-45. 60-40, maybe even 65-35 Kirby's favor.

 

[momochuu]

You guys need to stop playing noob Ikes that don't jab cancel and play some good ones. -_-

 

[Lord Viper]

And I chose to do Ike this week because of the massive discrepancy between our rating of the matchup and their rating.

Oh, I see. When I went to some match up thread, (it might be on the Ike boards), I saw Ike vs Kirby 50-50, and I was like, "that can't be right, I'm sure Kirby has the upper hand," after a few rounds with three of my friends that's good with Ike I first picked Ice Climbers, (boy that was a bad choice, lol), then I chose Kirby. I notice that Ike's advatages to Kirby isn't even to Kirby's advantage to Ike's. The only time my friend won against me when vs Ike was.... an online battle, due to me not being to use to the lag, I lost most of my match's with Kirby due to Ike's very powerful attacks and me not having dodge timing. Of course when it come's to Aethercide vs FinalCuttercide/Swallowcide of course, Aethercide wins that. Why, because Ike's Aether has better reach, and he can able to grab the ledge backwords as the Final Cutter can not, as for Swallowcide, it's harder to swallow a good Ike player so I wouldn't even try.

Over all, Kirby can do a good number of combo's to Ike when it come's to grabs, air attack's, or even U-Tilt > B-Air > U-Air > repeate as well.

 

[Rykoshet]

Truth is, kirby has to get inside ike to kick his ***, and gimping him isn't just 1, 2, 3, done. Ike has to play the zoning game and limit his attempts at approaching and kirby pretty much has to weave around him to do the heavy duty damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZLT28rvOzk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhm2qY9GbB4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3zP-SJvB4c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2G5Zs3BfmU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChP0cPOIqPc

Anything beyond 60:40 is unreasonable, though the world:ike is 70:30 apparently.

 

[Commander_Beef]

King Dedede has all the advantages over Kirby.

 

[SaltyKracka]

King Dedede has all the advantages over Kirby.

If you could shut up and leave for the moment, it would be much appreciated.

 

[momochuu]

King Dedede has all the advantages over Kirby.

Omg. -_-

What are these people thinking?

 

[Asdioh]

I think it's funny we discussed Ike over MK. Ike is a cp char and there are so many better Kirby cp's. MK is a threat THAT NEEDS TO BE FUGGIN ADRESSED GOD ****IT.

After 10 months, what discussion can we do to make the matchup any less ******** >_>

a long with snake (over powered broken *** >_>)

I find Snake harder than MK (at least when I'm using Kirby) because I can be kicking Snake's *** left and right across the stage, but he takes foreeeevvvveerr to die and that gives him time to even it out...

Vs Ike, shouldn't Kirby just be able to B-air out of shield 95% of everything Ike does?

Not 95%, but it's definitely a good option sometimes. Don't underestimate Ike's jab...

Hmmm...what about comparing Ike to other characters? I see Ike as much less of a threat than TL. It's a close match, but is it close enough to warrant a 55-45? I don't know.

Tell you what...I play Kirby and Ike (my Kirby is of course far better) but still, I'd much rather play as Kirby against Ike than as Ike against Kirby. Still thinking it's only 55 or 60 in Kirby's favor asjkfl;j.

I'd love to see a kirby shield grab a tipped fair...

Well obvious that's not going to happen, but you're not going to have perfect spacing 100% of the time against a moving target

You guys need to stop playing noob Ikes that don't jab cancel and play some good ones. -_-

I've been trying to play Renegade for months but he always makes excuses. The first time was because he didn't want to play me online because he was supposed to go to the same tourney as me...but he didn't. Now it's because my AiB ladder record is too crappy D:

Anything beyond 60:40 is unreasonable, though the world:ike is 70:30 apparently.

NOT HURRICANE IKE!

sorry

King Dedede has all the advantages over Kirby.

I'm still unsure about this matchup, but in general, the better player will win almost every time.

 

[kirbz]

King Dedede has all the advantages over Kirby.

shut up this is an ike discussion. now talk about ike/kirby or die.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Eh, I've never actually heard very in depth Kirby vs MK stuff. What moves beat tornado, what kind of defense can we use? Obviously Kirby wont win with his sub par offense.

Commander Beef, get off drugs you crazy mother ****er. All Kirby has to do is get in his face and once he's been grabbed and then later sent off edge you can WoP the **** out of him.


Ike's range, attack speed on his most used moves, and recoveery are worse than DDD's. So it should be in Kirby's favor easily. Not like 70/30, but still not fun for Ike.

 

[MK26]

Truth is, kirby has to get inside ike to kick his ***, and gimping him isn't just 1, 2, 3, done. Ike has to play the zoning game and limit his attempts at approaching and kirby pretty much has to weave around him to do the heavy duty damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZLT28rvOzk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhm2qY9GbB4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3zP-SJvB4c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2G5Zs3BfmU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChP0cPOIqPc

Anything beyond 60:40 is unreasonable, though the world:ike is 70:30 apparently.

1) I agree...didn't I already say almost exactly what your first paragraph said?
2) Friendlies or tournament? Either way, good matches.
3) Well...as long as 60-40 isn't unreasonable...

King Dedede has all the advantages over Kirby.