P D
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2007
- Messages
- 579
take this out
this has been settled
dk destroys jiggly, one of the few match up dk wins.
or i guess someone else more competent could be the owner of this thread
-
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The New Match-up Chart
- Thread starter t3h Icy
- Start date
take this out
this has been settled
dk destroys jiggly, one of the few match up dk wins.
or i guess someone else more competent could be the owner of this thread
Dude I've actually played on console for years and i still do. I didnt include myself in the 50% who dont.
The fact is (like it or hate it) a large part of this community is based on online and we should merge the online/console thing into one
Btw, we should create a thread about the Console/Online differences and make a serious analysis
Superstar
Smash Champion
The point of that was that you mentioned a scenario that only happens to that extent online [the DIing thing].
And PD, you don't have to be a ****.
And PD, you don't have to be a ****.
D
Deleted member
Guest
what are we going to analyze? obvious stuff? thats SEROIUS?
Obvious DI and different controller setups are obvious... Online delay is obvious. But more small details?
For my experience from all those ages on PAL console SSB, the main difference I see is that console smash is smash with sh¡tty (imo) controller and emulator smash is smash with a custom controller suited to your hands and your preferences
So I dont think the matchups change much on online/console... you may wreck the controllers stick if you pull of that insane DI with it but you still can.
D
Deleted member
Guest
there you go
now you don't need a thread
now you don't need a thread
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Keyboard DI is overrated imo. It only really allows for consistency unless someone is using autofire (cheating).
Luigi = Samus. I don't see what gives Luigi any particular advantage. Other than up-B (which is good against almost everyone) Luigi doesn't seem to have anything vs. Samus that stands out.
Fox = Kirby because of counterpick stages imo
Samus = Jigglypuff
Luigi > Jigglypuff. Nobody has bothered to counter my points on this matchup.
Luigi = Samus. I don't see what gives Luigi any particular advantage. Other than up-B (which is good against almost everyone) Luigi doesn't seem to have anything vs. Samus that stands out.
Fox = Kirby because of counterpick stages imo
Samus = Jigglypuff
You seem to like jiggs so much.
Luigi is a floaty char comboer due to his floatyness and his high jump. He can kill both jiggs and samus at really low % especially jiggs (Lol dair to up+b at a high platform --> dead) although Samus vs Luigi is kinda more even but i still think its Luigi > Samus due to Luigi being able to do some combos.
About Luigi vs Jiggs i think its one of the most unbalanced matchups. Jiggs has a really hard time comboing luigi providing good di to escape the drill, and luigi has an easy time comboing jiggs to death (aka to 50-60%) but Its hard to tell about < and <<
Lovage
Smash Hero
luigi has the WORST fireballz
Kefit
Smash Journeyman
Luigi's fireball is better than Pika's
Luigi > Pika
Luigi > Pika
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
If it's the most unbalanced matchup, and it's <, and there are other matchups that are <<, then there's a flaw in the logic. Just pointing it out 
But in seriousness, here's my opinion:
DK > Jiggs
DK can easily out range and out camp puff. Sure once puff gets the hit on DK, it should be an almost guaranteed kill, but with DK's range, it's too difficult to get that one hit. That, along with Puff dying early (Fthrow or no Fthrow), I say DK has the advantage.
Luigi >> Jiggs
Too easy for Luigi to combo into up-B (or down B) combined with puff dying at rediculously low percents... add to the fact that Luigi is hard to combo for puff since Fthrow sends him too far. Then again, it's not impossible for puff to combo Luigi, but there's just too much going for Luigi.
-Smart- Fox > Kirby
Sure, any random Fox can walk into Kirby's up-tilt and get sent off the edge and be easily edgeguarded, but a smart Fox player should be able to avoid Kirby's up-tilt. Now I will admit... I haven't played this matchup in a very long time, so my opinion may be way off, but that's how I feel this matchup is.
Samus > Jiggly
I know people are arguing over this, with some people saying it's even and some saying Samus has the advantage (and I think some say Puff has the advantage). I as puff have extreme difficulty in this matchup. I do worse against Samus than I do against Fox, Pika, DK, Luigi, etc. (mainly because I know those matchups more). There may be something in this matchup that I am missing that makes it even, but as far as I know, Samus has the advantage. My reasons are basically the same as for DK vs Jiggs (more or less).
Jiggly > Yoshi
After having played Yoshiking's Yoshi today (Sept 8 for you eastern time people), I believe this is a Jiggly advantage. Then again, he did say he just came back from retirement (and I'll be honest, he was quite predictable), but that aside, it still seemed like it was a Puff advantage. Yoshi is way too easy to combo (and mashing the double jump does nothing if the puff combos properly... as every hit can be done before Yoshi can double jump). Both characters have difficulty edgeguarding each other if they recover properly (though it still can be done). Yoshi can combo puff, but it's much harder, as most combos that work on the other characters don't work on Puff, so Yoshi is limited in that sense.
Once again, I admit I'm basing this mainly on my matches with Yoshiking, along with my past experience against Yoshi (which isn't the best to be honest), so this may be wrong as well, but I very much believe that Puff has the advantage.
As for shield breaking... well, this should never happen. If puff gets her shield broken, then that is entirely the puff player's fault. It may happen from time to time, but if it happens twice or more in a match... then there's something wrong with that puff player lol.
As I said, this is my opinion, so some of this may be wrong, but this is what I believe is the case.
But in seriousness, here's my opinion:
DK > Jiggs
DK can easily out range and out camp puff. Sure once puff gets the hit on DK, it should be an almost guaranteed kill, but with DK's range, it's too difficult to get that one hit. That, along with Puff dying early (Fthrow or no Fthrow), I say DK has the advantage.
Luigi >> Jiggs
Too easy for Luigi to combo into up-B (or down B) combined with puff dying at rediculously low percents... add to the fact that Luigi is hard to combo for puff since Fthrow sends him too far. Then again, it's not impossible for puff to combo Luigi, but there's just too much going for Luigi.
-Smart- Fox > Kirby
Sure, any random Fox can walk into Kirby's up-tilt and get sent off the edge and be easily edgeguarded, but a smart Fox player should be able to avoid Kirby's up-tilt. Now I will admit... I haven't played this matchup in a very long time, so my opinion may be way off, but that's how I feel this matchup is.
Samus > Jiggly
I know people are arguing over this, with some people saying it's even and some saying Samus has the advantage (and I think some say Puff has the advantage). I as puff have extreme difficulty in this matchup. I do worse against Samus than I do against Fox, Pika, DK, Luigi, etc. (mainly because I know those matchups more). There may be something in this matchup that I am missing that makes it even, but as far as I know, Samus has the advantage. My reasons are basically the same as for DK vs Jiggs (more or less).
Jiggly > Yoshi
After having played Yoshiking's Yoshi today (Sept 8 for you eastern time people), I believe this is a Jiggly advantage. Then again, he did say he just came back from retirement (and I'll be honest, he was quite predictable), but that aside, it still seemed like it was a Puff advantage. Yoshi is way too easy to combo (and mashing the double jump does nothing if the puff combos properly... as every hit can be done before Yoshi can double jump). Both characters have difficulty edgeguarding each other if they recover properly (though it still can be done). Yoshi can combo puff, but it's much harder, as most combos that work on the other characters don't work on Puff, so Yoshi is limited in that sense.
Once again, I admit I'm basing this mainly on my matches with Yoshiking, along with my past experience against Yoshi (which isn't the best to be honest), so this may be wrong as well, but I very much believe that Puff has the advantage.
As for shield breaking... well, this should never happen. If puff gets her shield broken, then that is entirely the puff player's fault. It may happen from time to time, but if it happens twice or more in a match... then there's something wrong with that puff player lol.
As I said, this is my opinion, so some of this may be wrong, but this is what I believe is the case.
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
Or you clearly haven't played against a Yoshi who knows how to break shields.
I can tell you right now that I can break Isai's Jigglypuff shield if I hit it. Does Isai being the Jigglypuff matter at all? No, because Isai's Jigglypuff shield is no different than any other Jigglypuff player's shield and if done right theres nothing Jiggly can do to escape the shield break. Thus, the player does not matter in shield breaking.
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
It does matter, because in a match vs. Isai's Jiggly, you'd likely never even get the opportunity to hit his shield apart from on platforms.
What Blue Yoshi is saying is that Jiggs is a character who is rarely caught getting shield pressured, her awesome roll and her aerial game mean that Jiggly is always avoiding that situation altogether as much as possible.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
I meant Puff should never shield in this matchup. It is much better to be hit and combo'd to 50% than to get an instant loss of a stock. I do know Yoshi can easily break puff's shield... my point was Puff should never give Yoshi that opportunity. Hence me saying there's something wrong with the puff player.
I know Yoshi has an easy time breaking shields once he hit it once (nair chain).
edit... basically what Daed said.
I know Yoshi has an easy time breaking shields once he hit it once (nair chain).
edit... basically what Daed said.
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
That's why I said IF I hit it.
Blue Yoshi lets play. Maybe I can change ur mind on the matchup.
Blue Yoshi lets play. Maybe I can change ur mind on the matchup.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
lol sure I'll play you. Maybe you can change my mind. I am nowhere near the best puff, but maybe there's something about the matchup I don't know that makes it even.
Now that University is starting up again, my availability is on weekdays basically any time I don't have class (or too much homework lol). Tomorrow after 4pm pacific (7pm eastern) works for me.
Now that University is starting up again, my availability is on weekdays basically any time I don't have class (or too much homework lol). Tomorrow after 4pm pacific (7pm eastern) works for me.
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
I'm down to play now. Get on godweapon and we'll play a couple.
If not then we can play tomorrow or something but I dont have MSN messenger so we'll have to catch each other on kaillera which seems doubtful. If u have AIM my SN is SheerMadness10, if u dont i dunno how were gonna contact each other.
If not then we can play tomorrow or something but I dont have MSN messenger so we'll have to catch each other on kaillera which seems doubtful. If u have AIM my SN is SheerMadness10, if u dont i dunno how were gonna contact each other.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
I have aim (blueyoshissb), so we can contact each other tomorrow.
Sorry, I only play online matches on the University computers since my home computer is terrible. Last time I logged in to God Weapons (or was it Galaxy? Either way...) I had a ping of over 600, with 41 frames of delay. Now, my computer crashes on even offline 64 1v1's against the computer (training dummy). So I unfortunately can't play today (well... today being Sept 8th).
Sorry, I only play online matches on the University computers since my home computer is terrible. Last time I logged in to God Weapons (or was it Galaxy? Either way...) I had a ping of over 600, with 41 frames of delay. Now, my computer crashes on even offline 64 1v1's against the computer (training dummy). So I unfortunately can't play today (well... today being Sept 8th).
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
But we were talking about the frequency of shieldbreaks in a match, and how the player of the Puff affects that frequency. To use your example, if your Jiggs opponent were Isai, then that frequency would be zero. You said the player does not matter in shieldbreaking, which is true, but the player will never have their shield hit.
The only reason for this "argument" is a misunderstanding in what Blue Yoshi was communicating and what you were saying. Neither of you are wrong, you're just arguing different points.
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
I've never played anyone I was unable to ever catch their shield with an aerial. Just "not shielding" is nowhere near as easy as you guys make it sound. Shielding is 100% reactionary by most players and isn't something you can just "stop doing".
Never played a Jiggly that completely eliminated any shield breaking opportunities either. Hypothetically it sounds great but it seems insanely unrealistic that Jiggs should never get caught in her shield.
Never played a Jiggly that completely eliminated any shield breaking opportunities either. Hypothetically it sounds great but it seems insanely unrealistic that Jiggs should never get caught in her shield.
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
"play me so i can show you why i am right"
ahaha logic fail
Yoshi < Jiggly
I can only beat sheer's yoshi when i use pikachu or jiggly
does that count as evidence towards my opinion? O_o
ahaha logic fail
Yoshi < Jiggly
I can only beat sheer's yoshi when i use pikachu or jiggly
does that count as evidence towards my opinion? O_o
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Someone tell me the difference between these 2 scenarios:
1. Luigi uairs a Jiggly at 30%, and then does an up-B for the kill.
2. Luigi uairs Pikachu at 30%, and then does a couple more uairs and up-Bs for the kill.
People saying that Luigi >> Jiggly are basically arguing that 1 and 2 are the difference between > and >>.
1. Luigi uairs a Jiggly at 30%, and then does an up-B for the kill.
2. Luigi uairs Pikachu at 30%, and then does a couple more uairs and up-Bs for the kill.
People saying that Luigi >> Jiggly are basically arguing that 1 and 2 are the difference between > and >>.
Lovage
Smash Hero
are people basing their opinions about matchups on online smash? whack attack
Nintendude
Smash Hero
That wasn't the point, but if you really want to look at it this way, is Pika really 3 degrees of matchup better than Jiggly? Jigglypuff is a very good character.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
The results of our matches won't change my opinion of what the matchup ratio should be. I'm playing to see if there is something about this matchup that I do not know about that makes this matchup more even. I've beaten more Foxes as puff than I've lost. I still say the matchup is Fox >> Puff. Boom's Falcon destroys my Kirby. I still say it's Kirby > Falcon.
Sheer knows much more about Yoshi than I do, so playing him will let me see some things I did not consider when I made my opinion on the matchup.
Sheer knows much more about Yoshi than I do, so playing him will let me see some things I did not consider when I made my opinion on the matchup.
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
Well I won't be home till like 8:30-9:00 eastern so if u wanna play be on around then.
infernovia
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Messages
- 675
Well, pika has utilt.
Basically, if luigi has better aerials then jiggly but worse than pika, then there is a difference. Not to mention that jiggly usually stays in the air more than other chars, which again makes uair more scary.
I don't play this matchup with any consistency to actually make a comment. However, I don't lose this matchup to people who use jiggly (I haven't played this matchup in a super high level though).
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
After playing Sheer's Yoshi, I'm now unsure of what Yoshi vs Jiggs should be. I would probably still consider it to be a Puff advantage, but I won't complain to see it as even on the matchup chart.
Yoshi and Puff can both 0-death each other.
One good hit on Puff's shield should be a shield breaker.
Puff is somewhat easy to edgeguard (she can make it back, but more often than not, she'll be edgeguarded.
Yoshi is semi-difficult to edgeguard, but it can be done. His double-jump makes it hard.
So basically in my opinion:
Puff combos Yoshi slightly more easily than Yoshi combos Puff.
Puff's combos are more deadly than Yoshi's.
Yoshi's edgeguarding is better than puff's.
Yoshi can break puff's shield.
So... the only thing I don't know about is who's approach is better. I can't shorthop with my keyboard config (I know it's possible, but no button config works for me). On controller on console, I often approach with short-hop nairs. So my decision on this matchup is basically dependent on who's approach is better.
Yoshi and Puff can both 0-death each other.
One good hit on Puff's shield should be a shield breaker.
Puff is somewhat easy to edgeguard (she can make it back, but more often than not, she'll be edgeguarded.
Yoshi is semi-difficult to edgeguard, but it can be done. His double-jump makes it hard.
So basically in my opinion:
Puff combos Yoshi slightly more easily than Yoshi combos Puff.
Puff's combos are more deadly than Yoshi's.
Yoshi's edgeguarding is better than puff's.
Yoshi can break puff's shield.
So... the only thing I don't know about is who's approach is better. I can't shorthop with my keyboard config (I know it's possible, but no button config works for me). On controller on console, I often approach with short-hop nairs. So my decision on this matchup is basically dependent on who's approach is better.
ugh, "console smash" elitists are some of the most annoying posters on this forum
"WUTS DAT U PLAY ONLINE? HERP DERP UR OPINION DUN MATTER"
t3h Icy
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,917
Updated:
DK > Jigglypuff to DK = Jigglypuff
Yoshi = Samus to Yoshi > Samus
Pikachu > Luigi to Pikachu >> Luigi
Ness = Luigi to Ness > Luigi
Debating:
Luigi > Jigglypuff to Luigi >> Jigglypuff
Luigi = Samus to Luigi > Samus
DK = Jigglypuff to DK > Jigglypuff
Samus = Jigglypuff to Samus > Jigglypuff
Fox = Kirby to Fox > Kirby
Jigglypuff = Yoshi to Jigglypuff > Yoshi
Firstly, PD, I'm not taking my own opinion into account on this and before yourself, everyone was agreeing with DK = Jigglypuff. However, I wasn't able to read Blue Yoshi's comment for this update. It's not as if it becomes irreversible after changing something, so relax. It just needs to be more finalized. For now though, it's DK = Jigglypuff.
As the chart currently stands now, Luigi is 2nd last, only above Samus, and the ranks are close to being ranked higher means advantage (see the orange triangle from the top left to the bottom right). The only character ranked lower having an advantage over someone above is Luigi vs Jigglypuff.
Also, Mario is very close to taking 4th now.
Anyway, these last few match-ups don't seem to come to agreement, so I'm putting them all in "debating". Discussion please. I would, but I don't really Jigglypuff or Luigi, so my opinion isn't worth much.
DK > Jigglypuff to DK = Jigglypuff
Yoshi = Samus to Yoshi > Samus
Pikachu > Luigi to Pikachu >> Luigi
Ness = Luigi to Ness > Luigi
Debating:
Luigi > Jigglypuff to Luigi >> Jigglypuff
Luigi = Samus to Luigi > Samus
DK = Jigglypuff to DK > Jigglypuff
Samus = Jigglypuff to Samus > Jigglypuff
Fox = Kirby to Fox > Kirby
Jigglypuff = Yoshi to Jigglypuff > Yoshi
Firstly, PD, I'm not taking my own opinion into account on this and before yourself, everyone was agreeing with DK = Jigglypuff. However, I wasn't able to read Blue Yoshi's comment for this update. It's not as if it becomes irreversible after changing something, so relax. It just needs to be more finalized. For now though, it's DK = Jigglypuff.
As the chart currently stands now, Luigi is 2nd last, only above Samus, and the ranks are close to being ranked higher means advantage (see the orange triangle from the top left to the bottom right). The only character ranked lower having an advantage over someone above is Luigi vs Jigglypuff.
Also, Mario is very close to taking 4th now.
Anyway, these last few match-ups don't seem to come to agreement, so I'm putting them all in "debating". Discussion please. I would, but I don't really Jigglypuff or Luigi, so my opinion isn't worth much.
comments in bold like normal
otg
Smash Master
Luigi as the second worst? .....
*walks away*
*walks away*
Lovage
Smash Hero
nah, that's better than people who spam boring 4chan jokes in an attempt to be original but no one laughs
at least I'm not terrible at ssb64nah, that's better than people who spam boring 4chan jokes in an attempt to be original but no one laughs
people were telling me how you were doing pro fox combos like utilt -> fsmash
Lovage
Smash Hero
are u talking about online smash without a controller? then i won't be offended by what fireblaster says about my **** combos
D
Deleted member
Guest
you suck from what i rememberat least I'm not terrible at ssb64
people were telling me how you were doing pro fox combos like utilt -> fsmash
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
Can you little boys shut up about your vidjagameMADskillZ and get things back on track please