The New Match-up Chart

[Nintendude]

Some Agreement:

Pikachu >> DK to Pikachu > DK
DK = Ness to DK > Ness

Debating:

Jigglypuff = Yoshi to Jigglypuff > Yoshi
Ness = Samus to Ness ? Samus
Ness = Yoshi to Ness ? Yoshi
Falcon > Ness to Falcon ? Ness

DJCers are hard to come to a consensus with. =P

Pika > DK
DK = Ness
Jiggly > Yoshi
Ness = Samus
Ness = Yoshi
Falcon = Ness (in between = and > and I can settle for either I suppose)

I want to bring up another old one: Samus < Yoshi to Samus = Yoshi. I've had some pretty lengthy sessions with SheerMadness and I can beat him most consistently with Samus. Yoshi cannot combo Samus well and has a hard time approaching a campy one. Charge Shot and Grapple Beam totally own Yoshi off the stage. There's like nothing he can do. Still possibly a slight yoshi advantage due to Yoshi being a way better character but I think it's closest to even.

 

[P D]

Pika = DK

i agree

 

[Nintendude]

lolllll oops

 

[P D]

well i guess its better to sandbag the dk counterpick to pika

 

[Superstar]

Pika > everyone, if anyone has an = it MIGHT be Fox [or maybe Mario].

 

[Nintendude]

or Falcon. I still believe it is pretty close to an even matchup despite Pika having a slight edge.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I find mario gets trashed by pika personally

 

[MattNF]

lol at people saying jiggly has a bad approach

nair beats out a ton of character's aerial approaches, except maybe pika, fox and some others

 

[Superstar]

I find mario gets trashed by pika personally

Good, then Pika > Mario.

Jiggly's approach is bad except for nair. And her great aerial speed. Its mostly average, actually.

Better than Ness' I'll say that.

 

[DemonicInfluence]

Err what else does Jiggly approach with besides nair lol.

And I have to agree with MattNF that Jiggly = Yoshi. Nintendude, how come you think Jiggly is equal to Mario. Mario has fireballs, enough said lol

 

[Deleted member]

Only noobs get owned by fireballs

 

[SheerMadness]

I like to parry fireballs.

 

[asianaussie]

Jiggs' N-Air, Jab, F-Tilt, F-Smash, F-Air, U-Air, D-Air > Fireballs.

Fireballs can set up edgeguards on Jiggs. Otherwise, Mario is still better off approaching.

Jiggs approach is limited to N-Air only if you intend to rush. Baiting is an integral part of Jiggs' approach. For instance, if you use up 2-3 jumps, float near an enemy, stall with a jump to bait, then follow up. When they start predicting this, act accordingly.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

jiggly can't combo mario from fthrow very well

 

[t3h Icy]

Agreement:

DK = Ness to DK > Ness
Jigglypuff = Ness to Jigglypuff > Ness
Pikachu >> DK to Pikachu > DK

Some Agreement:

Luigi = Ness to Luigi > Ness
Jigglypuff = Yoshi to Jigglypuff > Yoshi
Falcon > Ness to Falcon = Ness

So Ness is still under discussion, but we're getting there. Are there any other match-ups that people are not happy with and would like to discuss?

I'm still leaning on Pikachu > Fox to Pikachu = Fox, and I'd like to discuss Jigglypuff and Link, despite I don't really play either.

 

[Deleted member]

Pikachu has an advantage on Fox on Falcon no question about it, just not as much as the other people

 

[Surri-Sama]

Nair ***** most recovery's wewt

Just jump out and use Nair into most chars before or ust as they use thier UpB? win

 

[firo]

The fact that Ness is slowly going into low tier and, (if all these new agreements go through), will have a chance at being second or third to last on the tier list seems pretty radical to me, but I guess if that's the consensus...

And PD, when's the last time we've played, especially in a 1v1 on P2P? I feel that some of your comments about Ness are unreasonably harsh. Also, the difference between a console and an online Ness I feel can be the biggest out of any character besides possibly fox, or maybe Pikachu. In those "high level" games on console, I think that Ness only improves. Frame delays and lag can really make Ness a lot worse than he is. Not to mention people on EGX and whatnot who are playing Ness online without a N64 controller.

 

[Surri-Sama]

firo...this thread isn't serious O_o

i thought ya'll knew that

 

[Nintendude]

I think Ness is easier to play on a keyboard >_>

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I like to parry fireballs.

You like to parry everything

You're not allowed to parry a falcon punch sheer Falcon punch isn't blockable.

the freakin galaxy gets destroyed by one and you parry it. WTF

EDIT :

2 posts till 4000. Yay for useless post count garbage

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

so...is there any other matchup to discuss

 

[Nintendude]

Nobody commented on my Yoshi = Samus argument.

 

[Zen Yore]

parrying fireballs ?
i prefer just jabbing them
or when im fox

shine > dash to usmash

too good

 

[t3h Icy]

Agreement:

DK = Ness to DK > Ness
Jigglypuff = Ness to Jigglypuff > Ness
Pikachu >> DK to Pikachu > DK

Some Agreement:

Luigi = Ness to Luigi > Ness
Jigglypuff = Yoshi to Jigglypuff > Yoshi
Falcon > Ness to Falcon = Ness

Debating:

Yoshi > Samus to Yoshi = Samus

KoRoBeNiKi, discuss whatever you want. If you feel there's nothing to discuss, are you saying that the chart is accurate in your opinion? If not, please bring up what you think is wrong.

 

[MattNF]

I played koro last night with my Samus vs his Yoshi

I won every one by like 2 or 3 stocks lol

it's probably even

 

[Nintendude]

I agree with all of that except actually I'm not sure if Luigi has enough of an advantage on Ness to make it > rather than =. I'm actually leaning towards keeping it equal.

 

[Fireblaster]

I agree with all of that except actually I'm not sure if Luigi has enough of an advantage on Ness to make it > rather than =. I'm actually leaning towards keeping it equal.

I agree. In this case I actually believe that Ness has a better approach, due to Luigi being so god**** slow and his fireballs being crap for approaching. Ness's DJC stuff > Luigi's slow ***. Luigi not having the worst recovery in the game is probably what makes this match even.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

falcon > ness

 

[SheerMadness]

I'll play any Samus who wants to see what the Yoshi vs Samus matchup is like.

 

[Zen Yore]

falcon > ssb
hes the best in ZA WARUDO

 

[t3h Icy]

Agreement:

DK = Ness to DK > Ness
Jigglypuff = Ness to Jigglypuff > Ness
Pikachu >> DK to Pikachu > DK

Some Agreement:

Luigi = Ness to Luigi > Ness
Jigglypuff = Yoshi to Jigglypuff > Yoshi
Falcon > Ness to Falcon = Ness
Yoshi > Samus to Yoshi = Samus

So are we nearing the end of completing the chart then?

 

[Nintendude]

I think after this batch of changes (except keep Luigi = Ness) I'll be pretty satisfied.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Jigglypuff > Ness
Jigglypuff > Yoshi

Other than that, I agree with the chart for puff's matchups.

 

[SheerMadness]

OK i'll bite @ Nintendude and Blue Yosh.

Why do you guys have Jiggly > Yoshi?

 

[DemonicInfluence]

Yes, Sheer agrees with me. jiggly doesn't have advantage against yoshi

Jiggly = Yoshi

~ImNotPro

 

[Surri-Sama]

yoshi's only real weakness is pikachu, and the reason for that is because sheermadness has a hard time with pikachus, nothing else!

Jiggly > Yoshi

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

yoshi's only real weakness is pikachu, and the reason for that is because sheermadness has a hard time with pikachus, nothing else!

Jiggly > Yoshi

...I hope this is a joke...if not, im reading sacarsm on the internet..

Kirby....by far

 

[P D]

kirby does PWN yoshi

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

falcon > ness

I think I'll do this for every "update" lol