The New Console Debates

[Eight Sage]

Rachet and Clank and Unchartered are first party.

PS3 beat both the Wii and 360 in Japan in November, and is beating the 360 in Europe. Stockholders are starting to shift from the Wii to the PS3 because they feel the stocks are stagnant.

I think This wouldn't happened if Brawl's release were on December. They missed the Christmas hype with that (and Mario isn't enough).

 

[RDK]

Rachet and Clank and Unchartered are first party.

PS3 beat both the Wii and 360 in Japan in November, and is beating the 360 in Europe. Stockholders are starting to shift from the Wii to the PS3 because they feel the stocks are stagnant.

The Wii's stocks stagnant? I don't see how that's possible with how quickly they're being eaten up by just people in the U.S. alone. I know I speak for a lot of other people when I say that any local stores near my area are out of them at the beginning of every business week.

 

[Crimson King]

The Wii's stocks stagnant? I don't see how that's possible with how quickly they're being eaten up by just people in the U.S. alone. I know I speak for a lot of other people when I say that any local stores near my are out of them at the beginning of every business week.

Stocks as in the Wall Street Stocks.

I think This wouldn't happened if Brawl's release were on December. They missed the Christmas hype with that (and Mario isn't enough).

You need to stop putting so much trust and faith in ONE game. One game will not change sales or push someone over the top. It takes several games to do so, otherwise people will just wait until the console is cheap enough to buy. Take Halo 3. Did extremely well when it was released, but now you don't hear much about it because there was so much hype surrounding it. Also, the coveted Game of the Year title for some gamers will probably not go to Brawl. Even if the game is amazing as Melee, people are still standoffish with Fighting games and I don't think a fighting game has ever won Game of the Year title. Of course that means nothing to me.

 

[RDK]

any local stores near my are

^Eww, typo. X_X

Stocks as in the Wall Street Stocks.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It just seems weird that people wouldn't buy more Nintendo stock with how well the Wii is doing.

You need to stop putting so much trust and faith in ONE game. One game will not change sales or push someone over the top. It takes several games to do so, otherwise people will just wait until the console is cheap enough to buy. Take Halo 3. Did extremely well when it was released, but now you don't hear much about it because there was so much hype surrounding it. Also, the coveted Game of the Year title for some gamers will probably not go to Brawl. Even if the game is amazing as Melee, people are still standoffish with Fighting games and I don't think a fighting game has ever won Game of the Year title. Of course that means nothing to me.

I don't really use the Game of the Year standings as a guidline to what games I buy, but I see your point. I do think, however, that Brawl is the reason some people buy Wiis.

I remember when I first bought mine, I was really unimpressed with the job Nintendo was doing with its new console, not to mention the DS, so I was only really going to get it for Brawl. I was pleasantly surprised when I found out the Wii really wasn't the piece of crap for 8-year olds that I thought it was going to be.

 

[Eight Sage]

You need to stop putting so much trust and faith in ONE game. One game will not change sales or push someone over the top. It takes several games to do so, otherwise people will just wait until the console is cheap enough to buy. Take Halo 3. Did extremely well when it was released, but now you don't hear much about it because there was so much hype surrounding it. Also, the coveted Game of the Year title for some gamers will probably not go to Brawl. Even if the game is amazing as Melee, people are still standoffish with Fighting games and I don't think a fighting game has ever won Game of the Year title. Of course that means nothing to me.

I'm not saying Brawl would save Wii, I'm only stating that Brawl would help Wii. Wii sales would have been more now, with Brawl and Christmas, than on Feb.

But that's nothing new. We already know that.

 

[commonyoshi]

Yeah, that's what I meant. It just seems weird that people wouldn't buy more Nintendo stock with how well the Wii is doing.

People buy stock because ultimately they want to sell it for more than they bought it for. Nintendo's stock, I'm assuming, could be doing so well now that investors see it as having reached its peak. No matter how consistant Wii sales are, Nintendo's stock wont raise any higher, and investors will lose money if they buy Nintendo stock at the height of its worth. That's why they are taking a risk with some other company.

 

[blazer787]

I remember when I first bought mine, I was really unimpressed with the job Nintendo was doing with its new console, not to mention the DS, so I was only really going to get it for Brawl. I was pleasantly surprised when I found out the Wii really wasn't the piece of crap for 8-year olds that I thought it was going to be.

yeah, instead its the piece of crap for 5 year olds!

 

[Tagxy]

Rachet and Clank and Unchartered are first party.

Theyre second party, but regardless, why would a 3rd party company put games on a system that can't even sell its own games?

PS3 beat both the Wii and 360 in Japan in November, and is beating the 360 in Europe. Stockholders are starting to shift from the Wii to the PS3 because they feel the stocks are stagnant.

First of all, people don't buy stock in the 360 and wii, they buy stock in their companies. Second off all, any shift that might be happening now (if there is one) probably doesn't make any difference. Nintendo is now the second largest company in Japan, thanks to the DS and Wii. Also, anything almost always beats the 360 in Japan. Oh wait, except that one time PS3 actually lost to it. To get the point across better, heres some nice charts of Japan (weekly) and the US (monthly)

 

[Crimson King]

Why do you try so hard to prove the Wii is so amazingly awesome, Tagxy? You have zero personal stake and in fact do nothing but lose from it anyway since you have to purchase games that you can play a limited number of times, so why push it so hard?

I already bought a PS3? I'm happy with it and I'm not going to return it, so why even argue over it?

Reading your last post really made me realize you are trying MUCH harder than I am at this and I felt a bit bad there.

 

[Chill]

Theyre second party, but regardless, why would a 3rd party company put games on a system that can't even sell its own games?

Nope, the franchises are wholly owned by Sony making them first party. Naughty Dog is a first party developer while Insomniac is second party. 3rd party devs look a number of factors when deciding where to place there games. It doesn't matter to them how well Sonys games are doing as long as their own do fine. That's why when devs see games like Zak and Wiki and No more Heroes sell poorly on the Wii it makes them think twice. There's also the potential audience they have to factor in, it's why you see a lot of games release on the 360/PS3 but not the Wii. The wii will of course get exclusive games but companies won't simply say 'the wii is selling!' and release all of their games on it. There's alot more to it than that.

 

[Wiseguy]

You need to stop putting so much trust and faith in ONE game. One game will not change sales or push someone over the top. It takes several games to do so, otherwise people will just wait until the console is cheap enough to buy. Take Halo 3. Did extremely well when it was released, but now you don't hear much about it because there was so much hype surrounding it. Also, the coveted Game of the Year title for some gamers will probably not go to Brawl. Even if the game is amazing as Melee, people are still standoffish with Fighting games and I don't think a fighting game has ever won Game of the Year title. Of course that means nothing to me.

I think if we know anything from Halo 1, its that one game can make a huge differeance in sales as that game single handedly saved the Xbox. However, neither the 360 nor the Wii need saving becuase they are both popular and prophitable consoles already.

 

[RDK]

Naughty Dog is a first party developer while Insomniac is second party

I miss hearing the trademark Naughty Dog audio at the beginning of every Crash game.

I think if we know anything from Halo 1, its that one game can make a huge differeance in sales as that game single handedly saved the Xbox. However, neither the 360 nor the Wii need saving becuase they are both popular and prophitable consoles already.

I think now that the new Halo has blown over, the only thing the 360 has coming are multi-console games that can be bought for the PS3 or PC. It's kind of lost some leverage, seeing as how Halo Trois was effectively killed by its own hype.

 

[Volrec]

It sounded like you were talking about console sales.

But in graphics, GC was the best. Right now, PS3>360>Game Boy Pocket>Wii on graphics

hahah
i laughed

 

[AltF4]

The sales charts don't mean much anyway. The Wii is sold out hardcore at every moment right now. The only reason the other consoles are even near it is because Nintendo can't keep up with production.

Plus it's Japan, the 360 doesn't have much of a chance there from the start.

Why do you try so hard to prove the Wii is so amazingly awesome, Tagxy? You have zero personal stake and in fact do nothing but lose from it anyway since you have to purchase games that you can play a limited number of times, so why push it so hard?

I already bought a PS3? I'm happy with it and I'm not going to return it, so why even argue over it?

Reading your last post really made me realize you are trying MUCH harder than I am at this and I felt a bit bad there.

I understand your argument CK and I agree with you. But this thread IS for people to argue about consoles and which one is best in their minds. If you think arguing it is stupid then why even bother coming to the thread? Or better yet, why not close it?

 

[Wiseguy]

I think now that the new Halo has blown over, the only thing the 360 has coming are multi-console games that can be bought for the PS3 or PC. It's kind of lost some leverage, seeing as how Halo Trois was effectively killed by its own hype.

I suspect that as long as one of those multiplatform games is GTA 4 and other big frnachises the 360 should do just fine in 2008. As the 360's strong showing prior to Halo 3 shows that it is no longer a one franchise console.

Personally, however, the Wii is still the only console I need. 2008 marks the advent of Brawl, the Wiiware channel, and a ton of weird and wonderful Japanese titles like No More Heroes.

 

[Crimson King]

The sales charts don't mean much anyway. The Wii is sold out hardcore at every moment right now. The only reason the other consoles are even near it is because Nintendo can't keep up with production.

Plus it's Japan, the 360 doesn't have much of a chance there from the start.



I understand your argument CK and I agree with you. But this thread IS for people to argue about consoles and which one is best in their minds. If you think arguing it is stupid then why even bother coming to the thread? Or better yet, why not close it?

I come to this thread because blind fanboyism is counter-capitalism and I morally oppose that. Plus I get a bit tired of people giving me **** on AIM or the PS3 topic (it stopped now) and this is the only topic where I can express why hating on any console is dumb. Plus, just because I don't like a topic, doesn't mean I close it. Modship duties and personal preference are separate.

 

[RDK]

There's a PS3 thread? Talk about a pit of rabid wolves.

I'm not so sure about hating consoles being counter-capitalism, but you shouldn't blindly hate a console just because it's a rival console of your favorite. That's dumb.

 

[Crimson King]

There's a PS3 thread? Talk about a pit of rabid wolves.

I'm not so sure about hating consoles being counter-capitalism, but you shouldn't blindly hate a console just because it's a rival console of your favorite. That's dumb.

Yes, it's quite productive because pretty much everyone has a PS3.

 

[Eight Sage]

Plus, just because I don't like a topic, doesn't mean I close it. Modship duties and personal preference are separate.

That's the perfect sig-quote for mods

There's a PS3 thread? Talk about a pit of rabid wolves.

No way RDK are you serious? Do you know there's a Wii thread also?

And I won't quote that gigantic chart, but I don't believe in graphics... specially if they're about sales.

 

[Red Exodus]

Well since the discussion is closing down...

Quick question:

How do you guys feel about buy outs/loss of exclusivity?

Personally I love it to a certain extent [if every game was on every system it'd feel weird], but I have a friend that hates it, he boycotting Namco for making Ace Combat 6 for 360.

I've need do anything that ridiculous because of one game, it's kinda like when Resident Evil 4 came out for PS2 when it was supposed to be GC only.

 

[Tagxy]

Why do you try so hard to prove the Wii is so amazingly awesome, Tagxy? You have zero personal stake and in fact do nothing but lose from it anyway since you have to purchase games that you can play a limited number of times, so why push it so hard?

I already bought a PS3? I'm happy with it and I'm not going to return it, so why even argue over it?

Reading your last post really made me realize you are trying MUCH harder than I am at this and I felt a bit bad there.

Don't feel too bad, I rarely come by here in the first place and maybe spend about 10 minutes on posting. You and many others have put in a bigger effort arguing your side more then I have mine. Also, I didnt create those charts.

Anyways, why argue? Well considering the thread's theme and the fact that your arguing for likely the same reason as well, I dont think I need a lengthy answer for why. But mainly my posts have been to correct some misinformation (such as sales recently) or counter an attack. I wasnt really trying to convince anyone since its unlikely Ill change their opinion.

Nope, the franchises are wholly owned by Sony making them first party. Naughty Dog is a first party developer while Insomniac is second party. 3rd party devs look a number of factors when deciding where to place there games. It doesn't matter to them how well Sonys games are doing as long as their own do fine. That's why when devs see games like Zak and Wiki and No more Heroes sell poorly on the Wii it makes them think twice. There's also the potential audience they have to factor in, it's why you see a lot of games release on the 360/PS3 but not the Wii. The wii will of course get exclusive games but companies won't simply say 'the wii is selling!' and release all of their games on it. There's alot more to it than that.

You see a lot of games release on 360/PS3 because they can easily go multiplat, thats not the case with the wii. Of course if the wii surpasses PS3 and 360 total sales combined, you can expect that to change.

Also, all of Sony's games do poorly (also, first party has nothing with what you own, but whether it is in-house or not). That's not the case with wii games, even third party (the examples you listed were poor, but I wont delve into it unless youd like).

 

[Wiseguy]

Well since the discussion is closing down...

Quick question:

How do you guys feel about buy outs/loss of exclusivity?

Personally I love it to a certain extent [if every game was on every system it'd feel weird], but I have a friend that hates it, he boycotting Namco for making Ace Combat 6 for 360.

I've need do anything that ridiculous because of one game, it's kinda like when Resident Evil 4 came out for PS2 when it was supposed to be GC only.

Having exclusives on your console of choice is nice, to be sure. But a great game is still a great game if its released on other consoles. Personally, I think people should spend more time playing games and less time arguing that thier console is the best.

 

[Chill]

You see a lot of games release on 360/PS3 because they can easily go multiplat, thats not the case with the wii. Of course if the wii surpasses PS3 and 360 total sales combined, you can expect that to change.

Like I said there is more than one reason for games to go multiplat. The wii will probably end up with more exsclusives they may just not be the exclusives that the "hardcore" fanbase wants.

Also, all of Sony's games do poorly (also, first party has nothing with what you own, but whether it is in-house or not). That's not the case with wii games, even third party (the examples you listed were poor, but I wont delve into it unless youd like).

But like I was saying devs aren't going to care how Sonys games are doing as long as their own are successful, likewise they won't care how Nintendo's are doing if they can't see their own profit in it. Regardless most f Sonys games have done pretty well all things considered except for poor Folklore.

On the subject of first party games I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

Why are the examples I listed poor? I wasn't trying to argue that capcom is going to stop development of Wii games because of those sales. Rather they will think more carefully about what kind of game they release on the Wii and that the audience for the wii is different than that on the 360 or PS3.

 

[Dai-A]

yeah

im fat! so thats all i wanted to say

 

[blazer787]

the 360 doesn't need exclusives, it handles most of its games well.they look, sound, and play much better than any wii game. unlike the white box for todlers known as the wii. look at COD3, it was amazing on the 360, but a piece of ****ing **** on the wii.
microsoft doesn't discourage develepers from making certain games on its console, rather it is trying to fill the gap in certain genres. (RPGS).
also, after watching THIS!!!!!!!(click it) i DEMAND A PS3 SOON.

 

[Wiseguy]

the 360 doesn't need exclusives, it handles most of its games well.they look, sound, and play much better than any wii game. unlike the white box for todlers known as the wii. look at COD3, it was amazing on the 360, but a piece of ****ing **** on the wii.
microsoft doesn't discourage develepers from making certain games on its console, rather it is trying to fill the gap in certain genres. (RPGS).
also, after watching THIS!!!!!!!(click it) i DEMAND A PS3 SOON.

I'd like to see a toddler try and beat Prime 3 or Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn...

 

[antimatter]

the 360 doesn't need exclusives, it handles most of its games well.they look, sound, and play much better than any wii game. unlike the white box for todlers known as the wii. look at COD3, it was amazing on the 360, but a piece of ****ing **** on the wii.
microsoft doesn't discourage develepers from making certain games on its console, rather it is trying to fill the gap in certain genres. (RPGS).
also, after watching THIS!!!!!!!(click it) i DEMAND A PS3 SOON.

you are insane. plus, you don't spell well.

 

[El HP]

Right now I only own a Wii it's a disappointment the game library is poor, the graphics are GC 1.2, it lacks features and only a few games make a good use of the wiiremote hopefully things will improve.

360 looks great Gears of War & Mass Effect in particular look like excellent games, PS3 like Wii right now has a poor library.

 

[Crimson King]

Right now I only own a Wii it's a disappointment the game library is poor, the graphics are GC 1.2, it lacks features and only a few games make a good use of the wiiremote hopefully things will improve.

360 looks great Gears of War & Mass Effect in particular look like excellent games, PS3 like Wii right now has a poor library.

Interestingly, Mass Effect is being ported to the PS3.

There is an odd trend that developers are starting to recognize and respect the PS3, not sure where it even started, but now games are designed ON the PS3 and ported to the 360 (Burnout Paradise is the next major title like this, as well as Unreal Tournament 3).

Also, sorry Wii fans, but Rockstar has CONFIRMED that GTA 4 will never be on the Wii. Why? No clue, they claim some games work better on it than others, and GTA 4 is not one of them (but Manhunt 2 is?).

 

[Red Exodus]

I can't imagine GTA on a Nintendo console, it's just one of those things that isn't meant to be. It doesn't surprise me though, most 3rd party games are for Xbox 360 and PS3 only anyway.

 

[Formula1]

Interestingly, Mass Effect is being ported to the PS3.

There is an odd trend that developers are starting to recognize and respect the PS3, not sure where it even started, but now games are designed ON the PS3 and ported to the 360 (Burnout Paradise is the next major title like this, as well as Unreal Tournament 3).

Also, sorry Wii fans, but Rockstar has CONFIRMED that GTA 4 will never be on the Wii. Why? No clue, they claim some games work better on it than others, and GTA 4 is not one of them (but Manhunt 2 is?).

I don't think they respect the PS3, I would say that the PS3 is bying out 360's games

Alot like how Microsoft is buying out Sony's games

I'm sure MGS4 will come out for the 360 and the differences between the consles will soley fade,

THe wii is original for sure, but it's kinda for little kids, I don't think they've really tried too hard to produce a lasting FPS for it yet, but they're working on it for sure..

In all my opinon is
-the wii is a good buy that will eventually develop some nice games
-But until then-360 is still better due to halo 3 and the knowledge that eventually every 3rd party game will come out for both 360 and PS3

the PS3 is too ahead of its time, no one needs Blu-ray games yet. They should focus on becoming both software and hardware like nintendo, only for more mature audiences

 

[blazer787]

I'd like to see a toddler try and beat Prime 3 or Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn...

it is very entertaining to watch, trust me. and a little sad. but i've seen it done.

 

[TGM]

Blazer, no..............just no.

 

[Wiseguy]

it is very entertaining to watch, trust me. and a little sad. but i've seen it done.

Uh-huh.

 

[blazer787]

no seriously. it was very funny because in fire emblem he thought he was supposed to kill EVERYONE, including his allies. stupid 4 year old.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Blazer, shut up. Seriously.

 

[Red Exodus]

FE isn't my cup of tea, I also fail to see how come it's viewed as so great among Nintendo's top franchises, but then again with so few franchises actually doing something well on the Ninty home consoles [DS not included] I can understand why.

I guess I'm so harsh towards Nintendo because all of their good stuff is so scarce that anything above average instantly becomes a 'must buy', whereas on other consoles you have more variety so everything that's good isn't instantly hyped.

If Nintendo were to gain the same 3rd party support Xbox and PS3 have now I'd throw out that pet peeve.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

FE isn't my cup of tea, I also fail to see how come it's viewed as so great among Nintendo's top franchises, but then again with so few franchises actually doing something well on the Ninty home consoles [DS not included] I can understand why.

So you can't see, but you can understand? It's normally the other way around. In all seriousness though, Fire Emblem(along with Advance Wars) is one of Nintendo's most well thought-out games. Every character has a storyline, every character establishes relationships, every character has one life. It's really a good formula for building likable characters(or at least characters you care to at least live, in my case for the most part). You have to use strategy to win, especially on the harder difficulties and further into the game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the closest thing to strategy in a Nintendo game is...Mario Party.

I guess I'm so harsh towards Nintendo because all of their good stuff is so scarce that anything above average instantly becomes a 'must buy', whereas on other consoles you have more variety so everything that's good isn't instantly hyped.

A good game will be considered a 'must buy' whether or not it's on a system full of topnotch games.

Look at the 360:Mass Effect, Halo 3, Gears of War, The Orange Box, Call of Duty 4, PGR 4, Forza 2, Bioshock, Rock Band(though only if you have friends over often), and Grand Theft Auto 4 are all considered such, and are among many.

 

[blazer787]

shesh that prt was a joke.
you can't pick small number of games that are different and say they represent all of the wii's games as a whole.

FE isn't my cup of tea, I also fail to see how come it's viewed as so great among Nintendo's top franchises, but then again with so few franchises actually doing something well on the Ninty home consoles [DS not included] I can understand why.

I guess I'm so harsh towards Nintendo because all of their good stuff is so scarce that anything above average instantly becomes a 'must buy', whereas on other consoles you have more variety so everything that's good isn't instantly hyped.

If Nintendo were to gain the same 3rd party support Xbox and PS3 have now I'd throw out that pet peeve.

took the words right out of my mouth

 

[Wiseguy]

FE isn't my cup of tea, I also fail to see how come it's viewed as so great among Nintendo's top franchises, but then again with so few franchises actually doing something well on the Ninty home consoles [DS not included] I can understand why.

I guess I'm so harsh towards Nintendo because all of their good stuff is so scarce that anything above average instantly becomes a 'must buy', whereas on other consoles you have more variety so everything that's good isn't instantly hyped.

If Nintendo were to gain the same 3rd party support Xbox and PS3 have now I'd throw out that pet peeve.

I'm not trying to "hype" Fire Emblem or say that that it's instantly a "must buy" for every Wii owner. It just happens to be an RPG that I personally love, and it offers a respectable challenge that you won't find in most Nintendo offerings these days - hardly a "toddler's game". That was all I was saying.

Personally, I think when judging the Wii you have to take in consideration that this is the console's first year. As I recall, the 360's first year wasn't too hot either and look at how it turned out. Also, I'd say the Wii's first year is lightyears better than the last 3 years of the Gamecube.