**The NEW competitive guide to Jigglypuff**

*JuriHan*

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
4,700
3DS FC
1392-4901-1779
#1
About the author/foreword





I have been a Jigglypuff main since Smash64. I was quite potent at that game, even winning a small tourny back in the day. When Brawl first came out I used Jigglypuff, then after coming here to SWF I came to the conclusion she was a hopeless character. For some time, I even went so far as to drop her for Kirby. I wasn’t the only one who was in a situation such as this. Many notable Brawl Jigglypuff players dropped her for a different main (such as Meta knight or Wario) or completely gave up on Brawl, converting to Brawl+, where she really shines. As for myself, I used Kirby for some time and focused on improving my overall game. I later switched back to Jigglypuff, and found she really isn’t as bad as I originally thought. That’s not to say she still doesn’t have some glaring flaws that keep her down in H-tier, but she was useable... and at the same time, very rewarding to win with. :)

Why I wrote this-

The old Jigglypuff guide is horribly dated, from being ridden with inaccurate information to simply being too vague or obsolete with today’s meta game (mostly concerning her moveset, match-ups ect. This is not to say that some of Alex‘s old stuff isn’t still good, in fact I have included some of it in here.) Also, the author of it got banned so no one is going to be updating it anymore. I discussed writing a new guide with a few Jigglypuff mainers, and they were all for it. I hope this guide will draw more players to her, as she is a very under-represented and under-played character. My goal for for this guide is to aid newcomers and veterans alike in the fray. I had a lot of fun writing this, and I hope you have as much fun reading it as I did making it.

*Note- I will be constantly updating this guide as new information about her is discovered. Also, if you feel I left anything out, please feel free to PM me information or drop a comment in this thread and I will add it to this guide and give you credit for it. Let this be a joint collaboration into making the most successful, up to date Jigglypuff guide around!*

Special Thanks



illinialex24- Although you are banned your frame data will be here forever, and it’s still amazing to this day. I’m also keeping some of your old information, it’s still good.

General Woodman- Your amazingly unique Jigglypuff has always inspired me.

Jigglymaster- I'm glad you stuck with Jigglypuff. :)

Thinkaman- Dude, you freakin won a tourny with her! Mad respect. Also post here more, and get more videos of you up! We really could use it!

Updates
12/18/09- Fixed some typos, added more combos in combo section, started on "How To Kill With Jigglypuff".
12/21/09- Added additional information about tilts.
12/22/09- Added "Mind gaming into a SD or edge guard" information under strategy.
12/23/09- Added "Strategic Staling" information under strategy.
12/29/09- Added my Jigglypuff playlist featuring Woody and myself under "Fun Stuff"
1/6/10- Refined aerial information.
1/9/10- Added Jigglymaster's write up on n-air approaching, added Tham's write up on rest.
1/27/10- Added Jigglymaster's video on using d-air under "how to approach" section
1/31/10- Changed playlist url to my new one, which features perfect quality videos. Also made sections for Woody and Metatitan when I re-upload there matches under "fun stuff"
2/7/10- Added General Woodman's Jigglypuff playlist under "fun stuff"
2/21/10- Added your's truly's offline playlist under "fun stuff"
3/11/10- Added additional info about d-air and f-smash.
3/18/10- Added a texture hack link under "fun stuff"
3/21/10- Refined f-air information
3/26/10- Added more links under "fun stuff"
4/3/10- Changed "Fun Stuff" to "miscellaneous, added Jigglypuff hitbox video link, created a separate "Fun Puff Stuff" section.
6/25/10- Refined information. Added killing info on the situational f-tilt. Wrote information on how to approach with b-air.
1/5/11- Fix broken links, revised wording.
3/28/11- Minor stuff
4TH OF JULY SUPER AWESOME UPDATE OF 2011: CHANGED F-TIER TO H-TIER!!! AW YEAH SON!
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Table of Contents
1- Introduction
2- Is Jigglypuff Right for you?
3. Pros and Cons
4. Moveset
a. Jab
b. Tilts
c. Smashes
d. Dash Attack
e. Aerials
f. Specials
g. Grabs
5. Strategy
- Approaching with Jigglypuff (UNDER CONSTRUCTION)
- Killing with Jigglypuff
- Combos
- Advanced Techniques
6. Miscellaneous
- Jigglypuff texture hacks
- Jigglypuff Hitboxes
- Jigglypuff videos/playlists
7. Fun Puff Stuff
- Jigglypuff Wombo Combo
- Jigglypuff zero deathing Clefairy
- Why rest got nerfed
- Jigglypuff hyper rave
- The Song of Jigglypuff anime episode
8. Credits

1. Introduction

Jigglypuff, or known as Purin (プリン, meaning “pudding”) in Japan is a Pokemon from the original generation. Her first appearance was in Pokemon Red/Green in Japan and Pokemon Red/Blue outside Japan. She is a normal-type pocket monster, and her popularity was reinforced in the anime with her first appearance in "The Song of Jigglypuff." She was known for putting Trainers and their Pokemon to sleep (unintentionally) with her singing, thus causing her to fly into a rage usually resulting in her drawing graffiti on the sleeping victim’s face.




Jigglypuff is also the 2nd most popular Pokemon in Japan next to Pikachu. She is considered a mascot of Nintendo and is even a personal favorite of the developers of Pokemon (Gamefreak). In addition to being catch-able to the player in all versions of the game, she usually makes many cameo appearances in-game from being in Pewter City’s Pokemon center in Red/Blue/Green/Yellow, appearing in the intro of Pokemon Blue and Gold/Silver, and even making an appearance in the dancing session of Pokemon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum contests. Oddly though, despite Gamefreak's affinity for her, she nor her evolution Wigglytuff are viable in competitive play. Both have impressive hit points and a respectable movepool, however the rest of her attributes range from lackluster to poor.

In the first two smash games however, it's a totally different world for her. Jigglypuff is often renowned for being the “glass cannon” of the series, meaning she has powerful knock back moves such as rest, in the exchange of her being the lightest character in the game. She was a very respectable fighter in the right hands in the first two Smash games.

I did say "first two games" though, didn't I? Brawl's incarnate of Jigglypuff was nerfed quite harshly. Read on to find out how she changed over the Smash series.

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Looking Back: A History of Jigglypuff in earlier Smash Brothers games

Smash64



My personal favorite incarnation of her; She was a formidable character in Smash64 with many ways of comboing into rest. D-air was normally the go-to move to set up rest. The combo was easy, safe, and reliable once perfected. Jigglypuff also had other assets as well. She was blessed with the largest shield to counter balance her light weight, a back throw with killing capacity, a reasonably fast f-smash, a d-smash useful for edge guarding, and a potent u-smash which could also be comboed via d-air. In fact, if done correctly or if the opponent fails to DI, d-air could do up to 30% damage! However, her recovery was not as good in the later games, and she was very vulnerable to spikes. Also, Jigglypuff would often have difficulties killing at higher %s, as she often needed to combo in order to land the final blow. Overall though, she was a solid character and could even go toe to toe with top tier characters such as Pikachu, Fox or Kirby.

Melee



In Melee, her d-air into rest combos were exchanged for u-throw or u-tilt into rest. Her recovery was improved, including an “extra jump” with an air dodge up. However, the most notorious buff was rest now had the power of a baseball bat. When this move connected, it was quite a site to behold. Her ground game remained solid. More importantly, Jigglypuff’s aerials greatly benefited due to the physics of melee with its increased hit stun, paving the road to a technique known as WoP (Wall of Pain). This could be attempted in Smash64, but was generally less effective. She gained a new special rollout, with heavy knock back however rolling off stage would result in a SD, and it really wasn’t viable in high levels of play. Anyways, I don’t think I need to go much more into this. The bottom line is she was arguably at her prime in this game. High tier easily (some would even argue she is secretly the best in the game even), winning many tournies both large and small.

Today…………

Brawl



This brings us to Brawl. I'm not going to beat around the bush here or hide it- I'll tell you right now: she got nerfed. Hard. All of the positive traits I just mentioned above are gone. She is now a shadow of her former self. Apparently Sakurai didn’t realize Smash64 was the best when both Kirby and Jigglypuff were viable, and decided to nerf Jigglypuff similar to how Kirby was nerfed in Melee. These nerfs include knockback (rest), priority (some aerials), and even range (hitbox nerfs, notably f-smash).

At a first glance, you will notice rest now has severely less knock back. It is even questionable if the risk is now worth the reward. However it should be pointed out that what has hurt rest the most is the virtue it can no longer be combo’d reliably into anything. It has no true combos. Although d-air into rest has returned it is performed differently, being much harder to pull off than the smash64 counterpart, and even worse, it will only combo IF THE OPPONENT TRIPS.

And nope I’m not even finished-there's even more bad news for Jigglypuff in Brawl.

The physics of Brawl do not suit her at all, they actually work against her playstyle which revolves around gimping. Reduced hit stun and multiple air dodges makes WoP difficult to perform to even next to impossible to perform on (good) players.

Overall, her priority has been nerfed as well- although pound and a few other moves still retains it, thankfully. It's still very noticeable though.

Her entire ground game has been severely nerfed, all of her smashes now have considerable start-up time and even poor range. Her f-smash for example, is now completely outclassed by Kirby’s in both priority, range, and knock back. It’s not to say that her ground game is unusable; It's no longer reliable, being much more situational.


This brings us to the final flaw with Jigglypuff- she lacks a reliable kill move. Arguably her best kill move is f-air in terms of speed and knockback, however this even in itself is flawed. It stales very quickly, and even worse- it requires a sweetspot to have KO power. If you fail to sweetspot it on the initial hit, it’s already staled. Also it's worth noting the hitbox on this move is fairly meager, further complicating getting it to connect successfully.

So… Jigglypuff’s biggest problem is her lack of reliable kill moves, she is no longer really a “glass cannon,” more just a “glass.”


TBH, I don't think Jigglypuff is as bad as a character as she is reflected on the tier list. (She's still bad though) She does have some potiential, but as some people pointed out already the problem is other characters can essentially do what she can do better, such as Wario, Kirby, and Meta knight. All three don't die as easy, and even have a ground game. Jigglypuff's problem is being outclassed and because of this her representation is very low which reflects her poor tourny results. Jigglymaster placed with her at Pound4, so she obsly has some viability in today's meta game. I think she can place in tournies, but the player is going to have to work harder and play even better than if they would using the 3 characters I just mentioned. When money is on the line, people would rather go the easy route.

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2. Is Jigglypuff the right character for you?

Now, if the knowledge I just shared with you did not cause you to hit the back button in disgust on your internet browser, and you are still willing to work with her... continue reading. However, Jigglypuff is not for everyone.

Jigglypuff is NOT for you if

- You are poor at DI’ing
- You are not in a habit of momentum canceling every time you get knocked far
- You are poor at spacing
- You are bad at precision
- You do not have a solid secondary (or main), as she has a few un-winnable matchups.
- You dislike working for your wins, meaning really being above your opponent mentally.
- You break your shield often (actually quit Smash if this is the case, should never happen.)


Jigglypuff is for you if:

- You enjoy aerial characters
- Looking for an unique play style
- Enjoy cute characters
- Are extremely opportunistic
- Consistent with getting situational KOs (does that make sense?)
- Creative with offstage gimping
- You are good with mind games
- Enjoy challenges
- Want a sense of accomplishment after nearly every victory. :)
- Enjoy humiliating higher tier characters by beating them with her. ;)
- Like trolling people

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3. Pros and Cons

Pros
- Has terrific air mobility with her multiple jumps and air speed
- Can be used to counterpick Diddy Kong
- Awesome at timing out matches
- Hard to combo
- Near infinite recovery
- Destroys some of the cast offstage.
- Can air camp well
- Can stall with pound
- Crouch avoids some projectiles
- Has many tools to punish lag, and is good at punishing in general
- Master of situational kills
- A few moves with great priority, notable pound, d-air and b-air
- Reliable, safe approaches given you space them correctly
- A grab game with insanely good range with decent damage output
- An above average sized shield
- An useful DACUS which can double as an approach or kill move
- Has a few good match-ups against certain high tier characters such as Diddy, Falco, goes even with Ice Climbers
- Powerful offstage game
- Gimping tools
- Can stage spike
- Good edge guarder
- She is underused, so many people will not know the matchup or how to deal with her, giving you the element of surprise.

Cons
- Gets KO'd the fastest in the game- Paper-like weight combined with no game breaking way to momentum cancel (G&W's bucket for example) means she's going to be dying early.
- Slowest running speed (This isn't too bad though since you will be spending most of your time in the air)
- KO’d if shield breaks (This should never happen)
- No up B recovery- you must use your jumps wisely!
- Having good DI and momentum canceling with her is mandatory. If you lack these, expect to be KO'd at ludicrously low %s. I'm talking 60-80% depending on stage.
- Having good spacing is important so she will not get shield grabbed with her aerial approaches, which she is going to be relying on a lot to build damage.
- Poor range, small hitboxes on nearly everything
- Precision is required for nearly all of her KO moves (In order of hardest to easiest to sweetspot or connect: rest, f-air, f-smash, dash attack.)
- Limited options on the ground
- D-smash and D-tilt are nearly useless. You might as well play Jigglypuff pretending you don't even have those two moves.
- Failure of reliable kills <- This is a big one
- Few true combos, most are situational and depend on how opponent DIs or reacts. This means you will have to work harder to build damage with her.
- Although she has a very generous grab range and nice damage output, her actual throws have virtually no combo or highly limited follow up potential.
- Mostly poor to unwinnable matchups; you’re going to have to really play better and smarter than your opponent if you expect victory.
- Essentially outclassed by other characters in the game, meaning they can do what she can do better, safer, and with MUCH better match ups. Such characters include Kirby, Wario, and Meta knight.

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4.The moveset:


a.
Jab


Hits on Frame: 5-6
Duration: 21*
Hitlag: 6
Blockstun: 1
Blockhitlag: 6
Base Damage: 3%
Knockback:
Angle: 45 Degrees
Base: 548.27
Growth Rate/ variance: 5.91

*If you keep on pressing A and the attack does not hit, the attack only has a duration of 11 frames. This is the repeating first jab which stops once you get a hit. This means by holding A you can cut off 5 frames of the total animation of jab.

Analysis: This, not including rest is tied with Dash Attack as Jigglypuff’s fastest ground move. Although Jigglypuff has small, stubby arms the hitbox on this is bigger than you would expect. You may hold A down for a repeated jab (another taunt, anyone?) Jab can lead to a few things if you’re opponent is not expecting it- a grab, or if they’re REALLY not expecting it- a f-smash. 3% for a jab is not too shabby for a total of 6%. If used cleverly, jab can disrupt recovering characters offstage and if they do not react in time they can SD. Doesn't combo until 30%. Try it out, but use in moderation.
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b. Tilts- Jigglypuff’s tilts are nothing extraordinary, all of them suffering from poor range which makes them mostly situational. Overall, u-tilt will prove to be the most useful in combat for it’s combo or ko potential if unstaled.

Up Tilt

Hits on Frame: 9-11
Duration: 30
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 9%
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 1996.49
Growth Rate/ variance: 31.39

Analysis: A slower and similar version to Kirby’s, with a few tradeoffs. Firstly, the range on this is abysmal, and does not cover in front of her at all. It only hits behind her. Secondly, it has more knock back. Unstaled, this is actually a kill move (slightly more knock back than her u-smash even). However, due to the poor range it is situational. I’ve found that the u-smash actually proves to be the better kill move so it is recommended you don’t worry about staling u-tilt and use it for setting up combos, which it does quite efficiently. You can get a couple of u-tilts off at early %s, and on fast fallers you may even combo into an u-smash. U-tilt to u-air or n-air is viable as well. In summary, to use this move the most efficiently, you will need to consider the falling speed of your opponent as well as the current damage they have. If it’s not stale, don’t forget it has more knock back than u-smash and can serve as a surprise, situational kill move. Just don't expect Snake u-tilt material here.

Down Tilt

Hits on Frame: 10-12
Duration: 38
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 10%
Knockback:
Angle: 30 Degrees
Base: 1466.4
Growth Rate/ variance: 8.56

Analysis: Her slowest, and least useful tilt. Arguably her worst move as well. Insignificant knock back and has absolutely no combo potential, chances are if you use this move you’re probably going to get punished so it's not even useable as a poke. I’ve found the only use of this is highly situational. For example if your opponent is a fair distance from you and you sense he or she may approach you from the ground you could try throwing this attack out in hopes of him or her running into it, but really there are much better options. When using this move you are immune to some projectiles because you are crouching. Nonetheless, because of how slow this move is it is still not recommended.

Front Tilt

Forward Tilt
Hits on Frame: 7-9
Duration: 35
Hitlag: 8
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 10%
Knockback:
Angle: 42.5 Degrees
Base: 848.7
Growth Rate/ variance: 28.73

Analysis: An underrated and often overlooked tilt for her in my opinion. This is her fastest tilt. The range on this like most of her moves is poor, however it is a fairly quick move, making it useful for intercepting slower attacks. It’s not bad for spacing, either. You may also use it to end combos, such as from a sour spotted f-air and your opponent is still next to you. Proper usage of this move should come naturally, using it with intuition. It should become like a reflex, using this move to protect yourself from slower, more powerful ones. It also needs to be pointed out, that when your opponent is at higher %s and near the edge, unstaled, this can actually kill them, making f-tilt one of her most situational (and rarest) kill move. Precision is the key here.

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c. The smashes- here we have some potential kill moves, however this is one of the areas that received the nerf stick with a few added start-up frames and nerfed range. Still, these do have uses in the given situation, read on to learn about them!

Up Smash

Hits on Frame (Sweetspot, Back)*: 16-17, 19
Hits on Frame (Sourspot, Back): 18
Hits on Frame (Sweetspot, Front): 18-19
Hits on Frame (Sourspot, Front): 17
Duration: 62
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 10
Hitlag (Sourspot): 10
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 5
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 10
Blockstun (Sourspot): 4
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 10
Starts Charging (Charges For): 9 (52)
Base Damage Sweetspot: 15%
Base Damage Sourspot: 13%
Knockback:
Angle (Sweetspot): 92.5 Degrees
Base (Sweetspot): 1325.35
Growth Rate/ variance (Sweetspot): 39.91
Angle (Sourspot): 87.5 Degrees
Base (Sourspot): 1245.25
Growth Rate/ variance (Sourspot): 35.75

*The move has different hitboxes in the front and back of the move. The initial hit in the back is always sweetspotted while for almost all characters (on Jigglypuff is an exception), the front starts out with a sourspotted hit. This causes the illusion that there are different moves in the front in back. However, the sweetspots and sourspots of the move simply come at different times.

Analysis: Slower and a bit weaker than the previous games, but still has uses. Has KO potential, however as pointed out earlier it is slightly weaker than u-tilt. Still, the hit box on this is impressive actually which is a true rarity for Brawl Jigglypuff, and it even hits on both sides. For this reason you may use this move to punish and even potentially kill a roller. When your opponent is close to you and you spot dodge an anticipated move successfully, you may use this move to punish or even kill them. It’s stronger on the back than the front. This can also be dash attacked canceled (DACUS), giving it deceptive range, and even double as a kill move or as an approach if you need it. However I recommend you save DACUS for KOing- not for approaching, as Jigglypuff doesn't have issues with approaching but KO'ing. More KO options is something always welcomed for Jigglypuff!

Down Smash:

Down Smash
Hits on Frame: 14
Duration: 60
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 4
Blockhitlag: 9
Starts Charging (Charges For): 5 (52)
Base Damage: 12%
Knockback:
Angle: -12.5 Degrees
Base: 1488.32
Growth Rate/ variance: 22.14

Analysis: Her quickest smash, but don’t let this fool you into thinking it’s good, because it’s not- it's by fare her worse smash and possibly her worse move along with d-tilt. Poor KO potential and the hitbox of this is a joke. Such a joke, some Jigglypuff mainers would tell you the best use of this move is to charge it as a taunt. In case you didn't pick this up in the frame data, it only hits on one frame. It can do in a pinch, but it is situational. As with d-tilt there are generally safer, better options than this one. If you want to punish rollers or hit on both sides, your best bet would be u-smash or even f-smash with some prediction. You might as well just tell yourself Jigglypuff doesn't have a d-smash.

Front Smash:

Forward Smash
Hits on Frame (Sweetspot): 16-19
Hits on Frame (Sourspot): 20-24
Duration: 59
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 11
Hitlag (Sourspot): 10
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 5
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 11
Blockstun (Sourspot): 4
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 10
Starts Charging (Charges For): 5 (69)
Base Damage (Sweetspot): 16%
Base Damage (Sourspot): 13%
Knockback:
Angle (Sweetspot): 50 Degrees
Base (Sweetspot): 948
Growth Rate/ variance (Sweetspot): 44.5
Angle (Sourspot): 54 Degrees
Base (Sourspot): 674.2
Growth Rate/ variance (Sourspot): 28.60

Analysis: This has some good KO potential. However as mentioned earlier on in this guide, it has been nerfed and is outclassed by Kirby’s f-smash in all dimensions of priority, knock back and range. Some people say this move is terrible and hard to hit, but I’m going to disagree with that claim. This move is excellent for punishing lag, landing opponents, spotdodges and with the help of a little mind games, can net you many KOS. People are not going to expect a f-smash from a Jigglypuff, because they generally will be anticipating the f-air, so never stale this and always keep it as an option for a finisher. To use this move successfully, you’re either going to be punishing, or outsmarting/outplaying your opponent.This isn't too shabby out of shield, if someone attacks your shield you can punish the lag with this move. If you attempt to f-smash an opponent and come up short, you may grab them if they fail to punish you. This is not a move to be spammed, as it has some ending lag. You are left wide open if you whiff this move. Overall, keep your opponent guessing, and always be on the lookout for chances to use this. This is what I meant about being opportunistic is important when playing as Jigglypuff. F-smash hits on frame 16 which is a bit slow for a smash, but it’s not as slow as MK’s f-smash to put it in perspective. It's the same speed as Peach's f-air, and Zelda's f-smash so it is just barely quick enough to still be viable. The big difference here is the fact that Jigglypuff's f-smash lacks range, and isn't a very safe move to use because of the poor ending lag. Because of these factors, it's going to be more difficult and risky to land consistently.

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d.

Dash Attack

Hits on Frame (Sweetspot): 5-9
Hits on Frame (Sourspot): 10-15
Duration: 47
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 9
Hitlag (Sourspot): 8
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 4
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 9
Blockstun (Sourspot): 2
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 8
Base Damage (Sweetspot): 12%
Base Damage (Sourspot): 8%
Knockback:
Angle (Sweetspot): 42.5 Degrees
Base (Sweetspot): 1111.4
Growth Rate/ variance (Sweetspot): 33.55
Angle (Sourspot): 45 Degrees
Base (Sourspot): 845.92
Growth Rate/ variance (Sourspot): 23.76


Analysis: Jigglypuff’s fastest attack (tied with jab) aside from rest is actually a ground move. Surprising, isn’t it? What’s even better about this move, is when unstaled, it can actually KO at mid 100% center stage. It’s even more deadly if you get your opponent at the edge of the stage. This move does require a sweetspot, but it’s very easy to do, just make sure your opponent gets hit with this as soon as it comes out. The range on this is a bit below average, with Jigglypuff’s head literally being the hitbox. Like all dash attacks this can be punished when predicted or spammed, but it shouldn’t be an issue, you have no business staling or spamming this to begin with. I’ll go more into detail under the “how to kill” section. You can follow this up from a sourspotted f-air, if you’re quick about it.



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e. Aerials-This is Jigglypuff’s specialty! Her aerials are pretty fast, some with good range, and b-air is an integral part of approaching and her main damage dealing option. F-air, when sweetspotted is a good KO move too!


ForwardAir


Hits on Frame (Sweetspot): 8-9
Hits on Frame (Sourspot): 10-20
Duration: 44
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 9
Hitlag (Sourspot): 7
Landing Lag: 15
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 4
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 9
Blockstun (Sourspot): 2
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 7
Base Damage (Sweetspot): 12%
Base Damage (Sourspot): 6%
Knockback:
Angle (Sweetspot): 45
Base (Sweetspot): 1612.88
Growth Rate/ variance (Sweetspot): 36.01
Angle (Sourspot): 45
Base (Sourspot): 795.38
Growth Rate/ variance (Sourtspot): 13.27

Analysis: F-air is fast and reasonably safe to use. Although Jigglypuff extends her legs greatly when she uses this, the hitbox could be better. This is her fastest KO move, however it requires a sweetspot. The problem with this is if you mess up the sweetspot it’s already staled. My recommendation is to practice killing with this move, until you begin to get a feel for how to sweetspot it. It’s not terribly hard, however if you spam it hoping to get the sweetspot/get lucky and not focus chances are you’re going to mess it up. This move makes a good approach as well as it can lead to other things such as n-air or grab but I *strongly* recommend you reserve this move for killing, and rack up damage with b-air, pound, u-air, n-air, u-tilt, and grabs unless you are confident you will be able to find an alternative way to kill. If you don't need f-air for killing, then by all means use this move to your hearts content, it's great for building damage. Also forward air is devastating offstage, you will find yourself getting many kills with it. What’s good about it offstage is even if it sour spots, you can follow up with something or you may have already effectively gimped your opponent. You can WoP with f-air as well, although the downside to this is if you fail to kill your opponent your f-air will no longer be suitable for killing. F-air can also stage spike when your opponent is on the edge. Overall, be wise with your usage of this move, get used to sweetspotting it and it will aid you greatly in combat.


Neutral Air

Hits on Frame (Sweetspot): 6-8
Hits on Frame (Sourspot): 9-29
Duration: 51
Hitlag (Sweetspot): 8
Hitlag (Sourspot): 7
Landing Lag: 15
Blockstun (Sweetspot): 3
Blockhitlag (Sweetspot): 8
Blockstun (Sourspot): 2
Blockhitlag (Sourspot): 7
Base Damage (Sweetspot): 10%
Base Damage (Sourspot): 6%
Knockback:
Angle (Sweetspot):
Base (Sweetspot):
Growth Rate/ variance (Sweetspot):
Angle (Sourspot):
Base (Sourspot):
Growth Rate/ variance (Sourtspot):

Analysis- Comes out quickly, the hitbox of this is literally Jigglypuff. A good out of shield option, good for combos (and may even lead to rest), and good for stopping your opponent from comboing you. As an approach, b-air does it better but if it suits you, go for it. This doesn’t have any real reliable KO power, however offstage it can prove to be useful for gimping. A good mixup with this is retreating n-airs which can aid your air camping game.


Down Air:

Down Air
Hits on Frame: 5-6,8-9,11-12, 14-15, 17-18, 20-21, 23-24, 26-27
Duration (All 8 hit): 73
Hitlag: 4
Landing Lag: 30
Blockstun: 0
Blockhitlag: 4
Base Damage: 2% Per Hit (Max 8 hits)
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 2084.1 (At 147 Damage)*
Growth Rate/ variance: 7.45

*Dair has literally no knockback, absolutely none at all until 147 damage (tested thoroughly). However, starting at 147 damage, it gets a knockback of 2099 and increases at a rate of 7.45.


Analysis: This move has been improved from Melee, however it’s not broken like it was in Smash64. It's still very good though and the hitbox is decent too. It can combo into a few things, including rest if they trip, or even a grab which is very nice for building damage. If your opponent is not expecting it, d-air can also set up a f-smash. D-air is very good for shield poking as well. If used properly offstage d-air may even disrupt an opponent's recovery (however it doesn't spike.) Overall, this is an useful move and you should try it out with mix-ups. I really feel many Jigglypuff players neglect or overlook her d-air in favor of her acclaimed b-air. Give this move a try and expirement with it!!!

Up Air:

Up Air
Hits on Frame: 8-16
Duration: 43
Hitlag: 8
Landing Lag: 15
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 8
Base Damage: 9%
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 1556.56
Growth Rate/ variance: 26.16

Analysis: U-air isn't as strong in the other games, but combos very nicely at lower %s. You can even do an u-air chain on fast fallers or heavy weights which can prove to be useful for racking up some quick, early damage. You can even try u-air, u-air, b-air or n-air depending on how your opponent DIs. Rest is also possible but it really shouldn’t happen. Overall, study your opponent’s reaction to this move to get the most out of any possible follow ups.

Back Air

Hits on Frame: 8-11
Duration: 40
Hitlag: 9
Landing Lag: 15
Blockstun: 4
Blockhitlag: 9
Base Damage: 12%
Knockback:
Angle: 47.5 Degrees
Base: 858.72
Growth Rate/ variance: 30.19

Analysis: B-air is the bread and butter of Jigglypuff’s approaches, and it’s also pretty darn good at punishing opponent’s approaches too. This is the aerial you’re going to want to momentum cancel with. This doesn’t have much KO potential any more, so feel free to use this to your hearts content. It’s fast, safe, (given you space it correctly) has good priority, and has good, deceptive range. It's also quite versatile. However keep in mind wen using this you do need to space it correctly to avoid getting shield grabbed or punished. With Jigglypuff’s outstanding air mobility, this should not be a difficult thing to do by any means. You may stage spike with this like f-air, and WoP. It’s better to attempt WoP with this than f-air because if your opponent manages to escape it (and this will happen a lot due to Brawl’s physics and air dodge system) your f-air will be left unstaled.

Arguably one of her best moves. (But don't forget d-air, it's very useful too!)

-------------------------------------

f. Specials- Some of her specials have been buffed, some nerfed, and another changed.

Rest:

Down Special
Hits on Frame: 2
Duration: 259
Hitlag: 10
Invincible On: 1-27
Blockstun: 5
Blockhitlag: 10
Base Damage: 15%
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 3676.85
Growth Rate/ variance: 30.41

Analysis: Nerfed, nerfed, nerfed. Still deadly against lighter opponents but the knock back on this has been nerfed so severely some characters such as Snake or DK wont have to worry about this killing until around 100%s. It’s been changed as well, the trajectory now sends the opponent up for a star KO, and adds the flower effect on them. The hitbox of this is her inner body. As mentioned earlier, the real problem with this move is the lack of true combos into it, making it a very risky endeavor to use. I see it work for some people, and if you’re into high risk, high reward(?) moves, you can try using it. If you miss, expect to eat your opponent's strongest move. Always consider if the risk is worth the reward, because in Brawl, often it’s not. The only true combo into this is through d-air, also known as “drill resting” however this only works if they trip. Rest is Jigglypuff's quickest move, it’s possible to interrupt attacks with this, I’ll mention Alex’s write up on it later but it takes perfect timing and prediction with no room for error (known as "Perfect Resting"). I personally don’t feel it’s worth using this move anymore, but I have seen some people use it to a great degree of success. Try it out, and if you’re good with it- great- you now have one more KO option.


Rollout

Neutral Special
Charge Time To Hit: 34
Charge Time For 12%: 34
Charge Time For 13%: 38
Charge Time For 14%: 42
Charge Time For 15%: 45
Charge Time For 16%: 49
Charge Time For 17%: 53
Charge Time For 18%: 57
Releases on Frame After Charge: 2
Ending Lag With Hit: 65
Hitlag: 11
Blockstun: 6
Blockhitlag: 11
Frames it Takes To Cross Final Destination (Fully Charged): 41
Tournaround Animation (Fully Charged):
Duration: 29
Hits On: 29*
Invincible On: 14-15
Base Damage: 18%
Knockback:
Angle on the Ground: 40
Base on the Ground: 1585.68
Growth Rate/ variance on Ground: 47.74
Angle in the Air: 87.5
Base in the Air: 1598.58
Growth Rate/ variance in Air: 48.69

*Does an 8% hit, which is only seen right after a turn, so it is included in the turning animation. Right after you go to full speed with an 18% damaging hitbox from then on.

Analysis: Another high risk, high reward move. It’s been changed a bit, less knock back (it’s still devastating though, even if not fully charged) however Jigglypuff no longer goes into the helpless mode after flying off the edge. You can use this to recover as well if you need to get back on quickly, but using this move always carries a risk because it is extremely punishable in many circumstances. For example, when recovering with it, if your opponent intercepts you before you reach the edge, you will hit them, and SD. Another example of this is recovering with on smashville, you may unintentionally smack into the balloon causing you to SD. When using this move to grab the edge if you do not aim properly you risk bouncing off of the edge into a SD. Now for killing here is the deal- if it hits, awesome- it‘s going to hurt, but if it doesn’t hit or your opponent anticipates it, you’re going to be in for a world of pain. They can grab you out of it from their shield, or even worse, smash you out of it. Many moves in the game also stop this move dead in it tracks such as projectiles (Falco’s laser, Mario/Luigi’s fireballs, Wario's bite ect, also Meta knight’s tornado eats this move alive as well) so don’t even think of spamming this move. Rollout however, is not bad for tech chases. If you plan to use this move for whatever reason, just make sure it’s clearly safe, or reap the consequences.

Final note: For Wifi players you may think my write up on this is total nonsense, and rollout is one of her best... even reliable kill moves. Truth be told rollout is INSANELY BUFFED on wifi. It is very hard to react to, and like many moves online... hard to punish. This guide is describing Jigglypuff's attributes OFFLINE, where rollout is next to ****. Very easy to react to (f-smash, grab, block) and very easy to punish.

Pound:

Side Special
Hits on Frame: 13-28
Duration: 53
Hitlag: 9
Blockstun: 3
Blockhitlag: 9
Base Damage: 11%
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 2120.15
Growth Rate/ variance: 23.35

Analysis: One of Jigglypuff’s best moves, best special, arguably the best special in Brawl
HAHA DISREGARD, NEEDS MORE META KNIGHT NADO SPAM
. There is some start up to this, but it is quicker in the air than on the ground. You don’t want to use this move as an approach, but rather punish with it. The hitbox and range of this move is highly deceiving, giving it extreme deceptive range with the hitbox stays out for awhile, further enhancing this. The power in it has been cut back, so killing with this is going to be rare. The trajectory has changed by now sending the opponent up, however this is a blessing at lower %s, leading to grabs or u-tilts, opening up different combo possibilities. This move’s usage goes beyond punishing, but canceling moves out, even smash attacks. The priority on this is very high (sadly though not as high as G&W’s back air, which is one of the reason she struggles against him) and is very useful for canceling various attacks or even projectiles.

You can check them out here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218940

This move, when used back and forth is useful for stalling, and can even aid Jigglypuff’s recovery. You may use this move on the ground as well however it is slower and much less effective. To master Jigglypuff, master this move. It’s incredibly useful, on par with b-air.

Sing:

Up Special
Hits on Frame: 29
Duration: 178
Wave 1: 18-63
Wave 2: 73-108
Wave 3: 118-164

Analysis- This move has never been useful for Jigglypuff in any Smash game, and Brawl is no exception to this. The only use for this is a ledge canceled sing, although why would your opponent allow you to do this? The more %s your opponent has, the longer they will slumber. If you put someone to sleep you should follow up with either a charged f-smash or a fully charged rollout, I’ve seen people miss rest even when they are asleep, lol. Also you would be surprised how much better knock back those have when fully charged and fresh. Most importantly- if they’re on the edge, you want horizontal, not vertical knock back.

----------------------------------------------------

g. Grabs- Jigglypuff’s grabs really don’t have many combo, KO, or follow-up potential, so there isn’t much to say about them however they all do 10% damage and each pummel does 3%, making it very useful for racking up a lot of damage. However, what is best about Jigglypuff’s grab game is the absurd range of it. It’s very, very abuse-able and is something well needed to compensate for her general lack of ground options.

Forward Throw

Hits on Frame: 10
Duration: 41
Hitlag: 6
Base Damage: 10%
Knockback:
Angle: 63 Degrees
Base: 3342.3
Growth Rate/ variance: 4.97

Analysis- Useful for throwing opponents off the edge, maybe setting up a possible WoP.

Up Throw:

Up Throw
Hits on Frame: 10
Duration: 43
Hitlag: 1
Base Damage: 10%
Knockback:
Angle: 90 Degrees
Base: 3666.4
Growth Rate/ variance: 8.56

Analysis- Does not have hit stun so can not combo into rest.


Back Throw:

Back Throw
Hits on Frame: 28
Duration: 51
Hitlag: 1
Base Damage: 10%
Knockback:
Angle: 132.5 Degrees
Base: 2991.6
Growth Rate/ variance: 7.14

Analysis: Dang, don’t you really miss Smash64 Jigglypuff’s b-throw? Because I know I really do.

Down Throw:

Down Throw
Hits on Frame: 61
Duration: 89
Hitlag: 6
Base Damage: 10%
Knockback:
Angle: 80 Degrees
Base: 3430.1
Growth Rate/ variance: 8.59

Analysis- Nothing remarkable about this throw, although animation wise it’s pretty amusing.




5. Strategy


1. Approaching with Jigglypuff:

B-air approaching- Two ways to do this: full hop, or short hop. The best is utilizing both, and using mixups. Don't just jump at your opponents using this move repeatedly, because they will likely begin to read you, and punish you for a mispace. To counter this, consider switching from b-air to a d-air, or even try a retreating n-air. If you feel it is safe pound is also a viable alternative. B-air is a good move, and a good approach- but make sure that's not the only thing you do when on the offense with your Jigglypuff.

N-air approaching-
I've been fooling around with the neutral air recently and i've came to the conclusion that its a great shield poker.

Basically, you jump in the air and n air, then fast fall into your opponent's shield and then follow up with a grab. It works. If they try to read it use pound to counter their sidestep dodge. N air last so long so they have no idea that its going to stay out long enough for you to hit them when your too far away from them. Of course if they actually try to attack you they'll hit you because it has no priority, but take full advantage of this if they are acting too defensive or are trying to sheild grab/sheild dsmash(MK)

The n air gets weaker the longer its out so try to hit your opponent when its just about to lose its hitbox to make them flinch and then you can grab them during that time.

This works best on characters like Metaknight and not so much on characters like DDD because you'll just get a b air to the face.
U-air approaching: You do this only if you are GeneralWoodman.

D-air approaching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBUoRDtFQPI

2. How To Kill With Jigglypuff



Before we start, let’s review which moves have KO potential

- F-air
- F-smash
- U-smash
-F-tilt*
- U-tilt
- Dash attack
- Rest
- Rollout

* Most situational. Requires opponent to be at a high %, unstaled, and near the edge.

Now we will examine alternative ways of killing

- WoP
- U-smash DACUS
- Edge guard
- Foot stool gimp
- Stage spike with either f-air or b-air


-The killing mentality-



When playing as Jigglypuff, you need to always be aware of what options you have available. When I say this I mean always keep track of what is stale and what is fresh. This is good advice that can be applied to any character in the game, but it's even more important to consider when using Jigglypuff.

This brings us to the #1 rule killing with her…

DON’T STALE YOUR STUFF!!!! (except maybe u-tilt)

Jigglypuff’s KO moves are situational, so staling them is simply digging yourself a grave and reducing your options, therefore chances of winning. For example don't be throwing out a f-smash even if it will hit when your opponent isn't even at kill %s. Seems like common knowledge but people do it. I mentioned this earlier, the only KO move you can get away with staling is u-tilt, because of the small hitbox, it is more suitable for combos, especially at earlier %s. F-air is okay too if you aren't good with sweetspotting it and you are adept at finding other ways of killing (this is even how I am.)

Rule #2

BE OPPORTUNISTIC!!

You’re playing as Jigglypuff. You die fast. You need to make sure your opponents die even faster. Always be on the lookout for mistakes your opponents make, and learn to capitalize on them. This is especially important when killing with f-smash, or getting crucial edge guards.

-Killing Tips-

F-air tips-

Please, please, please do NOT approach with f-air unless you are certain you will find an alternative way to KO. It’s very tempting as an approach because it‘s good and has combo potential, but you will regret it when it comes time to kill. Remember, you may not get the sweet spot the first time you attempt to kill with it, so it may be a little stale. You want it to be as fresh as possible.

If you fail to sweetspot the initial hit, try to see if you can f-air them again if they did not DI. Sour spot f-air can lead to a sweet spot. If your opponent pulls back, try to hit them with a b-air or pound when you can to soften them up for killing again (because the move will now be slightly stale), before attempting to go for the sweetspot once again.

There are also other follow ups to the sour spotted f-air, such as dash attack which can kill if they are close to the edge, or a f-smash if they do not move out of the way. You have to react faster than your opponent to do either of these however.

F-smash tips-

Two ways of getting this to work: punishing or pure mind games. As mentioned earlier, if someone attacks your shield depending on what move they used you may counter with this move. Landing lag works wonders too. You will find yourself killing with this move a lot by punishing mistakes. Also you can possibly follow this up from a sour spotted f-air if your opponent is not expecting it. As said earlier, be opportunistic- and don’t forget mind games, to kill with this move you may simply have to out smart and outplay your opponents.

U-smash tips-

Firstly, get use to DACUSing this, and get use to the range it has. Training mode is your friend in this regard, I suggest setting the cpu to walk so you can practice nailing a moving target. DACUS isn’t the only way to kill with this however. The hitbox on this is great as I mentioned earlier in the guide so if you sense someone is going to roll into you, they will be in for a nasty surprise. Another personal favorite thing to do, although a bit risky because it involves allowing your opponent to be very close to Jigglypuff, and anticipating a powerful move such as a d-smash, spot dodging it, and countering with an u-smash for a kill. Requires you to read your opponent, but it’s very useful for killing. Also u-smash out of shield is another viable option.

U-tilt tips-

The higher and closer your opponent is to killing range the more difficult and situational this move becomes to land. Also, it may be stale. If it’s not however and you have fast fingers you may attempt a roll into an u-tilt. You need to be very fast about it or it will not work.

Dash Attack tips-

This move barely has what it takes to be a kill move, so don’t use it unless you intend to kill. Although dash attacks in general are easily punished, Jigglypuff’s comes out super fast to help amend this. Don’t be afraid to lure or bait your opponent to the edge if needed. The edge is where this moves shines the most.

Rest tips-

the easiest way to get a rest against n00bs (real beginners who played brawl just a few times):
just dont move and rest if they attack you (some friends visited me and i nearly didnt move the whole 1on1 fight xD, just rested)
ok, if your opponent does not know the matchup jiggs: try dair2rest
if you think your opponent can be killed by dair2rest, try it, if he smashDIs, ok, just dont rest and if he does not smashDI that hard, follow and rest
this is really easy when trained a little bit and your opponent does not really know what to do

if your opponent knows how to escape you nearly have no chance to land a rest, exept if your opponent trips in the dair and he can not SDI any more, so a granted rest if u recognice this early enough

a quite useless 100% resthit is shown in the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hLXtKfBac0

weak hit nair can be used too to land a rest, but it can be shielded, so u shouldnt use it that much

now the most usefull chance to rest in a real fight: see the lag of your opponent, punish it
a very good example: kirbys upB, if you see that he makes a final cutter, just airdodge through the attack and rest him while having lag (my most trained match up is kirby, so i have trained this offline very much, dunno if its really that easy), same with ganons wizkick if he trys to hit you out of the air

all in all you need to know charakters to know when they have enough lag to rest them, training makes you perfect, knowing match ups is the clue
for example if you miss a rest against a diddy and you see that he charges a fsmash (dunno if really good diddys do that if u sleep) mash cstick and controllstick behind and up diddy, u SDI the first hit behind diddy and can rest him easily with a bit training
another way is to tech such an attack (made it 2 times against a peach) and roll to your opponent and rest immediatly, but thats a bit luck ...
some rapids (so keeping a pressed and punching very often, e.g. kirbys jab, dunno if its really called like this) can be end into a rest too, but u need the right SDI and u need to be fast
all in all multihits can help you to get a resthit because you can SDI out of the attack and your opponent can not do anything while doing this multihit

maybe one more way: rest in the air
in former time i made many uair2rests (pound, uair, utilt, uair, uair rest, something like this) but nowadays the metagame improved and most of my opponents dodge or do a fast attack ...
so u have to change your resthabits
one case: you have very much percentage, u land pound, uair, utilt - in most of these cases i risk a rest, although the opponent does not die in most of the cases (well ... in 99%) - but rest gives a few percentages damage and before i get killed and did not do any further damage i prefare getting a 100% kill but gibing nice dmg
an other method: uair your opponent in the air
now there are a few possibillitys:
- your opponent does nothing, just falling - jump and rest
- your opponent jumps, most often your opponent is too far away, try to land another arial, maybe another uair^^
- your opponent dodges - see it, fall with him, rest
- your opponent attacks (**** >.<) - most often you will get hit if its a fast attack (if its not fast you can rest xD) but sometimes a dodge and a rest if both of you fall works

some things against snake (sure against other chars too, but i just have this in my head with snake because i try to kill him somehow >.<)
snakes often recover high if you edgeguard them over and over again (and fail killing xD)
but when they fall, they often dunno what to do
i often come from down and do a uair without any chance to hit, just to mindgame
many snakes fastfall and bair, sometimes fair or uair, if u see that, airdodge and punish groundlag, lag in the air
but if your opponent is confused, he might airdodge, this can led into a cool rest ;) - sometimes ...

on BF, snake is on one of the lower platforms, sometimes it works if you fulljump and nair at the same time below him, his granate in his hand wont explode (i think so) and you can let him fall down from the platform - exactly into your jiggs -> rest

on pokémon stadium (had this against a diddy who visited me in a few offline matches) if diddy is on one of these platforms at normal stage, fulljump nair and rest when he is pushed off this platform


u made a jablock? dont try to jablock him too much, a jab does 2/3% ... dont risk your opponent to stand up without getting a powerful attack ;)
although rest is not the best way to punish a jablock, it is a way, but most often your opponent is in your jablock (one jab is enough, good players SDI out of your jab range) they are in low percentage (and u can not get them into a jab lock easily ... but fulljump nair under platforms are sometimes really usefull)


and in team machtes: if you are not familiar with team matches, just overuse rest at the beginning
in team matches its much less bad if you miss because your team partner can just jab you
im no really good team player, but i learned resting in team battles, its a good way to train


i dunno if this post is really helpfull, maybe you will write: lol, n00b, this wont work - but a rest is hard to land against good players, hard to do in general
these things work against everybody if he does mistakes, but the most usefull thing is imo punishing lag, the rest is a bit lucky ... (like edgecanceled sing2rest xD)

i sometimes see me playing and thinking: why didnt i do a rest a few secs ago? why did i made a nair etc.?
i think training rest is overusing it at the beginning
if you never try to do it, you will never get into resting
but if you once are in a rest-flush, its hard to get out of it

so just try more rests in friendlies, dont risk too much in tourney matches (maybe if your opponent just doesnt want to die and you have less stocks)
but trainig is using it, u mustnt think while using it
thinking: "dair2rest now" is too slow, just doing it because your hands are doing it because its good at the moment
so rest, rest, rest
if you rest much you will see when to use it - and when not to use it, you will learn it by doing, you will feel it on your own and you will know when its good to rest and when better not to do it
if you get the right feeling you wont do bad rests any more and you will land many of your rests, but at the beginning you will fail very often, but thats not bad in friendlies
the more you try, the better youll get (i hope you got the point)
thats the same thing i done with the DACUS, i really overused it at the beginning and now i do it without thinking: do a smashboost now, i just wonna hit the opponent fast, juggle him, punish lag - something like that
be conscious of resting, if you do it often enough you will get rest into your subconscious
Rest kill %s:

Jigglypuff 57%
Metaknight 64%
Sheik 64%
Zelda 65%
Fox 65%
Peach 66%a
Olimar 67%
Zero Suit Samus 69%
Game and Watch 69%
Toon Link 70%
Lucas 70%
Squirtle 70%
Falco 70%
Kirby 71%
Diddy 71%
Luigi 72%
Pit 73%
Lucario 73%
R.O.B. 75%
Yoshi 77%
Sonic 77%
Charizard 78%
Wario 78%
Wolf 79%
Samus 80%
Mario 81%
Marth 81%
Bowser 81%
Pikachu 83%
Ivysaur 85%
Ice Climbers 86%
Captain Falcon 88%
King Dedede 93%
Ganon 94%
Ike 97%
Link 98%
Donkey Kong 100%
Snake 103%

Rollout tips-

Tech chases are your safest bet with this move. You can even try a f-throw to rollout if you feel the risk is worth the reward.

-MORE COMING SOON!-



3. Combos:

Hey all, just decided to make a thread showcasing "combos" that Jiggly might use in combat.

Please refer to "combos" as combos from here on out.

Combo Usefulness/Application (will be marked as following)

Red = Not much use
Yellow = Some use
Blue = Should know and breathe this combo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pound-> grab (Low %s, - Dina)

Pound -> u-tilt->u-tilt->u-smash (Low %s, deadly on fast fallers. - Dina)

U-air-> U-air->n-air/b-air/rest ( U-air to u-air is usually guarenteed, the final hit depends on how the player DIs. -Dina)

Jab -> Grab (Main Jab followup, goes into aerials)

Utilt -> Uair (Amazing at low percents)

Utilt -> Bair String (If characters have poor recovery, potential 0-Death combo)

SH Bair -> Nair (Nair on frame one, works wonders if a Utilt after Nair at low percents)

SH Bair -> Uair (Uair on frame one, Utit always almost follows, can be comboed with, say, Nair)

Bair -> Fair (This one is off stage; u se it to finish up a Bair chain for a nice KO, if possible)

Air SideB -> Uair (Tham abuses this)


Dash Attack -> Nair (Very nice if you space the Nair)


Jab -> Fair (Relatively simple, though don't overuse)

Jab -> iDA (I use this to combo in Nair)

SH Bair -> Fair (Fair inputted on frame one, works best on larger characters)

Fair -> Ftilt (My usual combo starter)

Dair -> Rest (Only works if character trips)

Dair -> Ground SideB (Creds to my friend the CPU, at low percents combos into Uair/Utilt)

Air SideB -> Bair (Situational)

Bair -> Bair (Bair on frame one, Utilt at low percents)


SideB -> SideB (Make sure to predict their move after the first SideB)


Utilt -> Bair (Catches them off guard, can chain into other Bairs)


Sour spotted f-air -> dash attack (Must be quick about it, -Dina)

Sour spotted f-air -> f-smash ( " ")


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Last Updated: 12-18-09
4. ADVANCED TECHNIQUES

-Strategic Staling

This is a term I came up with when it is actually not a bad idea to stale your kill moves in exchange for new approaches, new styles of playing that will aid you in racking up even more damage easier once you have a stock lead and keep your opponents guessing even more. As reiterated, f-air and dash attack are kill moves, however if you have a stock lead, it may not be a bad idea to start approaching with f-air, or build damage with dash attack. F-air has a lot of combo potential, and if you were approaching with b-air it will probably throw your opponent off, and it gives you a new option with building damage. This way, you deal as much damage as possible, and if you get killed, your f-air and dash attack will become fresh again with however much % you managed to put on your opponent.

-Mind gaming into a SD or edge guard

As previously established, Jigglypuff has one of the best airspeeds in the game combined with multiple jumps. Because of this, if you can lure or bait characters offstage trying to hit you back you will find there are a few tricks you can pull on them. For some characters, you can lure them into attacking you offstage, avoid this, and quickly grab the edge instead. If it is a character with a mediocre to poor recovery, such as a Ganondorf or a Mario, they won’t be making it back. You may also bait spikes, and dodge them with your mobility/ air dodge, and grab the edge before they make it back in a similar fashion.




A. Wall of Pain (WoP)

Jigglypuff has such a bad ground game that any Jigglypuff user substitutes her ground game by using shorthopped (mainly) or sometimes fullhopped aerials. These mainly consist of fairs and bairs, as well as pounds and nairs. The Wall of Pain is generally used by consecutively using bairs with DIs back to severely punish a shield so you can land attacks on the opponent. Great approach as long as you DI out of harms way. The best way to do this is to try to barely tip the bair with your foot (there is not benefit from tipping besides allowing you to land safely). If the opponent stays in the same spot too long and you are weakening their shield, try to pound them to break it. If they do anything there its realatively safe (roll means no outcome, spot dodge means pound hits likely, shieldbreak if they hold shield, and its hard for them to attack).



B. Off-Stage WoP’s

The best or one of the best edgeguarding options in the game, it becomes an integral part to Jigglypuff’s game. Since she has so many jumps and rising pounds pound for amazing recovery even with no jumps, Jigglypuff can hit the opponent and keep on hitting them further from the ledge until they cannot recover. Consists of nairs, fairs, and bairs. Back aerials if done well are the ideal to get the opponent far off the stage with a fair finisher, since bairs give the opponent little room and almost no chance to maneuver and then you can use a fair with the full knockback as a KO move.



C. WoP into Ground Moves

After hitting with these moves, players can integrate a tilt, 1-2 punch, dash attack, grab, or f-smash sometimes. This allows you to make your game slightly less predictable, which is hard factor with Jigglypuff. I really like the sourspotted fair into F-smash, and a pound into ground at low percentages (shield the grab, trust me) works well.



D. Drill Resting

A shorthopped dair (start the dairs while still going up so you finish the last kick in the air) into a rest results in a combo or near combo combination that kills at 41-87 damage (with all kicks hitting). This can generally only be DIed out of if done properly, but you can easily anticipate and input a DI to make the rest hit. The trick to making this a combo is to make the opponent trip by hitting them above their knees. If you make them trip, as long as you DI properly, its a true combo. However, if they stay on their feet, they can perfect shield the rest, with leaves you wide open for a kill of their choice.



E. DIing to Avoid Shield Grabs

In the air, Jigglypuff pretty much has to attack so many players shield grab her or attempt to. This can be avoiding by using Directional Influence away from them after using the attack. This can also be used effectively after a rising or falling pound (not neutral pound).



F. Empty Shorthopping

Shorthopping and then just DIing away (generally with an air-dodge) can make it so your opponents use a move with high ending lag, allowing you to get a free hit on your opponents. Works wonders if Lucas uses U-smash, but works on many other moves.



G. Long Landing Moves

(Marth’s B-Up, Falco and Fox’s B-Side and B-Up, King Dedede’s B-Up, Lucario’s B-Up) Some characters have moves for recovery that causes them to have to wait a while after landing before attacking or shielding. King Dedede’s is special. If you see a King Dedede who has 93 or more damage use his B-Up and not cancel it (or cancel it right before the ground, which causes almost as much landing lag), you should anticipate, avoid the landing while jumping over him and rest him. His landing takes so long that he cannot avoid it. For other characters whose B-Up leaves them vulnerable, you can rest them when they land. Some like Marth, Fox, and Falco, their recoveries leave them almost paralyzed, allowing you to anticipate where they will go, go under them and rest. However, for others, you should be cautious because they can avoid your rest leaving you vulnerable. Good examples here are Lucas and Ness’s Up-B and Toon-Links Up-B.



H. Approach

The best options for approach are to first jump up out of the range of projectile spammers if you are facing one. Then, lower yourself as you come within attacking range of them. Try to tip with a fastfall your bair and DI away. Its really useful and great. Weaving bairs with pound is insanely effective, pound works wonders if they dash into it. Fair is also useful if they are in the air. If they are in the air, using uairs is great but be careful of higher priority moves, however, this works wonders on characters like Olimar, Game and Watch and others.



I. Boost Smashing
Jigglypuff can boost her U-smash by using by canceling a dash attack with an Up-smash, it is easiest to do if you turn tap jump off and dash diagonally, press down-C and then press A. It should have a sliding and deadly U-smash. Very useful if timed well. If you do a dash attack, you are timing the A too late. If you do a stopped U-smash, you are timing the A too early. You should dash pretty far.



J. Stage Spiking

Attacking a character and bouncing them off the stage as a spike is a stage spike, which Jigglypuff is fairly good at. Jigglypuff has a couple good stage spikes, depending on the location of the opponent during the attack (we will do this for Final Destination, things have to be slightly adjusted for other stages). If the opponent is right under the stage or far under it, but not yet past the ledge, a fair or bair at low percentages works best because it will send them far from the stage. At high percentages, a nair works best because it has a long attack and sends them at the right angle for a spike most of the time, however, it does not send them as far. If the opponent is farther from the stage, you really should not stage spike them unless they have a great recovery, in which case use a fair (Pit, R.O.B., and maybe Kirby, Metaknight, and Jigglypuff only). If they are actually past the ledge and physically under the stage, your best spike is a rest. However, this will result in a suicide, so use cautiously (use to show off only). Your next best option is pound, which spikes them fairly well, and with little risk. The next best are fair, bair, and nair, and are really only used if you expect to be attacked, since they are much faster attacks.



K. Footstool Spiking

Jigglypuff has a fairly good footstool KO setup. If you nair sex-kick the opponent, you can then wait a second with a forward DI, jump, and footstool the opponent. This sends them around halfway down the abyss on Final Destination, which with edgehogging and amazing finisher for off-stage Wall of Pains or certain characters. Also, just anticipating where your opponent will be and jumping is fairly safe but can do an awesome spike. You can have great follow-ups from a footstool, like a falling nair or sourspotted fair, which is essentially instant death on a Star Fox character. This is the spike that Jigglypuff does not have that she could use, however, it is fairly difficult to pull off. Its best used as a surprise move when you are right above the opponent. Remember to follow it up and go for the gimp.



L. Slowing Momentum

If you are hit with a normally fatal attack off-screen sideways, it is general knowledge that you can use a DI in the opposite direction to slow your momentum down. Also, holding up and in slows it even more. The final trick is to repeatedly press b-air because it comes out fast and drastically slows your momentum.




M. Jab Lock Combo

There is a jab lock combo with Jigglypuff that works very well and racks up damage to a kill very effectively. Once you start the jab lock combo, they will die assuming you don’t mess up. The trick is at low percentages to use a pound or U-tilt. Then, footstool the opponent and use an nair or fair sex-kick while fast-falling. Then, when the opponent is lying down, jab them twice, take a step, jab twice, step and repeat. Finish it off with a D-smash or rest once the opponent can be killed safely the way of your choice. Any trick where you can get your opponent stuck on the ground and then jab them like this can be used, it works okay if you get them to trip after a dair, and really well if its done with a bair sometimes. The best setup is as mentioned, but it does have other setups.



N. Pivot Grab

This is done by running and pressing grab backwards. Its a universal technique but its good for Jigglypuff's mindgames. Be careful to use well because like any grab, it runs risks. Some of the great perks are if your opponent is shielding near the ledge, now you can B-throw them off the ledge instead of with a weak fair. It also is very useful for punishing an opponent if you know they will roll. Its essentially a pretty cool trick with most of its use coming near the ledge.



O. Ledge-Canceled Sing
This is done by pressing down when holding onto a ledge, and jumping fairly quickly afterward and using sing. This should have you rise slightly above the level of the ledge and then use sing. However, when you grab the ledge, the sing will cancel, so you essentially have a free fair or rest on your opponent. However, it does reduce the hitbox of the already pitiful sing and it has another downside. If the opponent anticipates this, they can steal the ledge from you, which is very embarrassing because it results in a death.



P. Ground Footstool Dair "Combo"
This "combo" is done by first full hopping a dair, and then footstooling the opponent with a dair, and then footstool dairing them once more. This only works three times because Jigglypuff has a two limit footstool, but it essentially creates huge damage. However, it isn't a true combo so it should be done cautiously. However, if you connect with all three, it should cause upwards of 30-40 damage. The problem with this is that it is not a combo after the the original dair and and not after the original footstooled dair, but is after the second footstool dair (its a smaller footstool) from my own experience.



Q. Punishing Boost Smashes
If the opponent is in the act of charging a smash or in the animation of doing a boost smash, any move Jigglypuff or any character hits on that person will have an extra 20% knockback. This is because of some faulty Brawl mechanic and it is fairly useful in boost smashes. It can allow you to punish opponents with rollout or others moves and have them KO at very low percentages.



R. Punishing Laggy Moves

Jigglypuff has a fairly strong moveset towards punishing laggy moves, whether they be recovery or just playing a foolish opponent. This is mainly divided into 4 sections: charge moves, larger ending lag moves, roll spammers, and spot-dodgers.



1. Charge Moves

Against charge moves, you really should use rollout. Learn the hitboxes of all your opponents moves and learn when to release the rollout. It is essentially a safe free kill on smash or charge move spammers. The only exception to this is Dedede, with his B-Down. In this case, go off the stage and ledge-stall until he releases it. He will take damage in the meantime and he cannot punish you if you ledge-stall.



2. Larger Ending Lag Moves

Moves like this are like Lucas's U-smash, Zelda's U-smash, Wario D-smash, and others. In these situations, you generally don't have enough time to use a rollout, so you are going to have punish them accordingly. Boost smashes work wonders, and so do dash attacks. SHed fairs also work pretty well, use those to your advantage. Essentially, try to get any damage on them before their ending lag runs out. Boost smash is the ideal move because it goes the furthest fastest, does the most damage, and finally has pretty good knockback.



3. Roll Spammers

Roll spammers are much harder to punish as a Jigglypuff, mainly because she doesn't have the range on her D-smash to hit an opponent whether or not he rolls (like R.O.B. or Marth, who can use D-smash fairly safely whenever the opponent is near, Jigglypuff can only hit them wherever she is closer to the opponent before or after the roll). Also, her D-smash requires a decent startup as well, and its pitiful knockback makes it fairly worthless. Your best options against a roll spammer is anticipating when they will roll, for then you do have options. F-smash just does wonders if you anticipate them to roll under you, F-smash backwards and they will regret rolling. SHing a bair is a much safer alternative, and also has a decent reward. However, as a kill move, on beginners who roll spam or just someone who wants to take advantage of Jigglypuff's pitiful D-smash, a F-smash really kills. Especially because most of the time, its puts the opponent in F-smashes sweetspot, allowing a KO at very early percentages.



4. Spot-Dodgers

Spot-dodgers are somewhat annoying for Jigglypuff to deal with, especially if their name is Metaknight or R.O.B. Fortunately, they have one easily exploitable weakness: Pound. If you see someone spot-dodge, pound them. The ridiculously long lasting hitbox causes them to get immediately hit when the spot-dodge animation ends. This is the only time a pound should ever be done on the ground, if you are on the ground next to a spot-dodger.



S. Tech Chases

Jigglypuff has the tools to deal with a tech chase. Very well. Its a great option for Jigglypuff and if the opponent doesn't react almost immediately, it almost guarentees a KO past 80% or so (assuming rollout is fresh). Jigglypuff has these major options in a tech chase: rolliut, dash attack, and boost smash. All have different uses and can be put to good use. Rollout is best used if you are sufficiently far from your opponent. Charge it until you get you see them commit one direction or another and release, it should cause an awesome kill. Only release though exactly when they commit. If the opponent is very close to you, use a dash attack. If the opponent stays where they are or tries to roll away from you, they will get hit. Nothing will happen if they either attack up or roll under you, so its still a good reward. Boost smash is for midrange where you anticipate your opponent moving away. SImply boost smash and if the opponent rolls away like you aniticipated, release at the right time.



T. Pivot Walking

This is a cool advanced technique for Jigglypuff which is done by walking forward and then pushing the C-stick diagonally backward and upward with it set to smashes. This should cause Jigglypuff to spin in a circle, and if you do it at a certain pace, she can coninute to spin. It helps her turn quickly to use U-tilt's longer ranged side well, and it also gives her good momentum for bair. Finally, it can be used to stutter step F-smashes and other moves. It is considered almost useless, but its two main uses are quickly turning you around for larger range on your U-tilt and the momentum for bair.

Here is a movie showing pivot walking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38SKbFLwiuU&fmt=6



U. Interrupting Moves

In Brawl, there is very low hit stun, and as a result, many moves including jabs and other multi-hit moves can be interrupted with rest. This is because rest's hitbox comes out extremely fast and so with proper directional influence, or DI, you can actually rest them in between parts of the move. This is very useful and testing is currently being done, but some of the most practical applications of this are on Metaknight, Diddy Kong, and Lucas so far. Testing is currently going on now but once it is done, the results will be posted in the "Advanced Information" area and its applications will be posted in each character description.

Here are two basic videos of moves that can be interrupted with rest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQSEhawLRuE&fmt=6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZYMyP4qRzI&fmt=6



V. Planking (Ledge Stalling)

This is a very controversial technique that is only allowed at some tournaments, but it essentially involves a character stalling below the stage and hiding under the stage so the opponent has to come down to attack you. This works very well with Jigglypuff because her edge grab mechanic is so great to she can essentially be safe while she comes up to grab the ledge, a a vulnerability in using this with most characters. This works on the fact that some characters have such limited recovery that they cannot safely go down and attack you, and they cannot attack you while you recover. In tournaments, because of the clock and the winner is based on who has more stocks or less damage if the clock runs out, this can be used once you get a percent lead to essentially stall out the rest of the match against a few characters, and therefore win matches that you likely would have had much more difficulty with. The best way to use this is to be below the ledge, rising pound around 3 times, and then jump, rising pound a few times, jump once more and then re-grab the ledge. This way if you get spiked, you can still recover. Then, try to grab the furthest away from the ledge you can, so no attack can get you until you are invincible. Then, as soon as you can push away, press down and repeat.

Here is a guide on how to plank in Brawl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBAQTAKtxxQ&fmt=6



W. Slope Dashing

This is a cool technique that works for Jigglypuff on three stages and really has the potential to change her gameplay there. It is essentially a wavedash of Brawl, but in a very limited way. If Jigglypuff jumps with a strong DI toward the ledge on or right next to the ledge, she will dash instead of jumping, allowing her to do whatever she wants from the dash, like a grab or an F-smash. This was discovered by Sdwavedash and here is a cool video done by Havokk about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnCFo2HRcB0



X. Wave Landing

This technique allows Jigglypuff to essentially wavedash by air-dodging when falling to the ground, and you dash based on your momentum so how you DI is very important. This dash always results in a shield, but if you buffer a jump out of it quickly, you will never see the shield appear. This is amazing to use with a grab or a jump, but also can have a roll (to quickly roll behind your opponent or as a sick mindgame) or a spot dodge (great to setup a grab as well). This has huge potential for Jigglypuff and allows her to approach and the ground quickly and safely after being in the air, allowing her to mindgame like crazy. You can do this after an aerial for almost no lag and allows you to either combo or quasi-combo really well with aerials like nair. This allows her to make an aerial wall and then dash backwards to a safe distance, really improving the use of back air. This also makes her an insane grab machine and allows her to get many grabs in a row, racking up huge damage and using it seamlessly with her aerial game, making her much better.



Y. Catching Items

There are two different ways to catch and throw items, press A or air-dodge. Jigglypuff has a fairly bad dash attack catch, but is very good at catching items through an air-dodge, aerial or a standing A. Air-dodging is fairly important. Because of her floatiness and many jumps, anything thrown to you will likely get caught if she is in the air. This is mainly to be used when they opponent is trying to lob you stuff from afar, because it has a lower risk and reward. Essentially, the trade off is that you cannot push your opponent back with an attack while catching, but it is also much safer. However, at close range, the opponent can intentionally try to set the air-dodge catch up (like Peach throwing a vegetable at close range to you and waiting to fair right afterward, to punish an air-dodge or hitlag, or a Toon Link throwing a bomb and then to a fair). In this situation, it is better to do an A catch, preferably a forward or back (depending on where you are facing your opponent) catch, so you catch the item, hit your opponent, and allow you to combo them fairly easily. Finally, you can catch items while landing if you are smart, so you can grab items on the ground below you. The main use for this is against a Diddy Kong, because he will leave his banana's everywhere. He will often leave a banana in front of him and a banana in his hand, ready to punish you when you land or if you commit. This is where Jigglypuff shines. You can waveland and catch a banana at the same time. And with a banana in his hand ready to throw, trying to start up a banana glide, you get essentially a banana and a free grab. Finally, you can ledge jump an nair or push away jump a fair to grab an item right next to the ledge. The ledge jumped nair is preferable if the opponent is far away, while the fair is recommended if they would get hit by the attack.



Z. Throwing Items
Most players when they get an item tend to throw it away immediately, trying to hit the opponent. This is exactly what you don't want to do. Learn the opponents strategy for using the item and play like them, learn how they use that item properly. Notice they don't just chuck it at the opponent immediately. They use specials, other attacks and the like to punish the opponent before dropping it on the opponent. Jigglypuff is amazing at mindgaming with the drop and re-grab, and she can use this insanely effectively. Drop the item and use nair or C-stick an aerial during a fast fall. This coupled with air-dodges allows you to attack like normal with a mindgame while actually holding the item, allowing you great setups. My personal favorite is dropping an item, fast falling a C-sticked fair, and then throwing the item at them afterwards. Use moves to set up item throws, and use this to set up other moves. Jigglypuff a god with items if you can use them well, especially with how good her grabs are and the like.



AB. Infinite Jump Glitch Using Sing
Sing ledge cancels at a very far range, but it cannot do so below the stage very easily. So if you go at a perfect range, you cancel the sing and Jigglypuff acts like she grabbed the ledge, meaning she refreshes all her jumps and the rest, but she never actually grabs the ledge and stays under. This could be an almost infinite stall if timed perfectly, although the timing is very difficult. This was discovered by Veril and co-discovered by myself (he found a much better use for a glitch I found).

Here is a video on how it is done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_upXyxnIaM&fmt=6



AC. Interrupting Recoveries With Rest

If the opponent is trying to recover by attacking through you to grab the ledge, Jigglypuff can punish their recovery fairly easily by pushing away and resting. The timing takes practice for different moves and it can be difficult for some moves and easy for others. However, since on most stages this is an automatic suicide, its only real use is if you are a stock ahead and your opponent is at a high percentage so it kills him. However, if you on Jungle Japes, you can use this to punish anyone's recovery. As long as you know how to slow your momentum and get out the water, no matter where you push off the ledge you will be safe. Discovered by Veril.



AD. Reduced Stale Counter

In Brawl, moves weaken as you use them more. The game tracks the last 9 moves you have done and depending on how many moves you have in the stale move list, the weaker and less damage your moves are. However, if you hit with the same aerial 4 times in the air, for some reason only 3 stales get counted. This means that your 5th hit can be on a 3rd stale, and your 3rd and 4th hits are on 2 stales. If a certain stale is much more powerful than other stales, like fair's 3rd stale, you can use this to manipulate the power of the move. This is almost worthless but still useful.
6. Miscellaneous

a. Texture hacks

A collection of texture hacks just for Jigglypuff!

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php#Type=Character%Jigglypuff%

b. Jigglypuff Hitboxes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBYx_Ld3lUM

c. Shameless self-insertion (Actually some good stuff in here, offline matches of my Jigglypuff)

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=43F451A59B150FC7

7. Fun Puff Stuff

a. Jigglypuff wombo combo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeitijKtPSA

b. Jigglypuff zero deathing Clefairy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_WykWuodvc

c. Why rest got nerfed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynw9IvxpV10

8.Credits

-ME!
-Noobicidal (Pound>Projectile thread)
-Illinialex24 (Frame data, advanced techniques)
- Veril (Wavelanding, lightsteps, rest-related information)
- Tham ( Some killing info, killer Jiggly pic)
- Jigglymaster (N-air approach, d-air approach video, Jigglypuff hitbox video)
 

Cold Fusion

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ JIGGLYPUFF OR RIOT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
836
#4
I only skimmed through it, but from what I read it is fairly decent.
 

*JuriHan*

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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#5
I liked the old guide. ;-;
U liked the old guide saying d-smash is good, her throws kill, rollout is a good kill move, you should DI with f-air, f-tilt is slow, and all kinds of other errors/fallacies?










That doesn't surprise me one bit coming from you.

I only skimmed through it, but from what I read it is fairly decent.
thanks. :) Also this isn't quite finished, but the backbone of it is.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
1,793
#6
..................

Alex's guide was the s***. Almost everything here was ripped right from his guide and you missed the good stuff like matchups. Also you took the pictures with a camera and didn't bother to decrypt them (which takes less than a few seconds.).

I don't think you should have done this. If you wanted to expand on Alex's guide while he has fun being banned, you could just ask a mod to steal the OP.

Also, if anything should be added to his guide, it would be hitbox data which is giving me a lot of trouble at the moment.
 

*JuriHan*

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,700
3DS FC
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#7
..................

Alex's guide was the s***. Almost everything here was ripped right from his guide and you missed the good stuff like matchups. Also you took the pictures with a camera and didn't bother to decrypt them (which takes less than a few seconds.).

I don't think you should have done this. If you wanted to expand on Alex's guide while he has fun being banned, you could just ask a mod to steal the OP.

Also, if anything should be added to his guide, it would be hitbox data which is giving me a lot of trouble at the moment.
Absolutely nothing was ripped except his AT and frame data, because its still viable. For hitbox data, consult jigglymaster's video. 60:40 peach in our favor? Really???

The matchups are dated and are being re-examined in the new Jigglypuff match up thread.
..................
Also you took the pictures with a camera and didn't bother to decrypt them (which takes less than a few seconds.).
dang, my bad. Pictures are more important than the actual infromation!!!!

look, I'm trying to help the puff boards and you are biting me in the ***. If you dislike this guide, fine. An updated guide has been in order for a very long time. MK guide even got updated.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
1,793
#8
Absolutely nothing was ripped except his strategy and frame data, because its still viable. For hitbox data, consult jigglymaster's video.

The matchups are dated and are being re-looked in the new Jigglypuff match up thread.
We didn't need a new guide, the old one is till up to date. Accurate frame data was retaken by Alex before he left, and did you seriously think matchups had changed that dramatically in the past year?

I'm sorry i'm giving you this negative feedback, it seems that you worked for quite a bit on this, but however much time you put into something doesn't mean you put that time into something useful or new.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
1,793
#10
Awsome guide SNO! This is a lot better than the old one!

I can't wait 'till it's finished! Can you add the hitbox data into here whenever it's completed?
 

*JuriHan*

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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#11
Awsome guide SNO! This is a lot better than the old one!

I can't wait 'till it's finished! Can you add the hitbox data into here whenever it's completed?
I like Alex's guide but the moveset part is awful, and so is the part on how to DI. If you want I can transfer the old matchups but those are dated now. =/

I'm just trying to help ... wow.

edit: Did you even read what I wrote?

edit2: Should I PM a mod to get the OP and expand on it? And then just close this thread? I'm open to ideas on this.

edit3: *inb4 noobicidal trolling me*
 

Veril

Frame Savant
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,062
Location
Kent Lakes, New York
#12
Only 1 guide actually is useful here and that's G-regs. The stuff I wrote was good for lols and science-y-ness. You don't really need a guide. Nearly all of the players who were legit good with her play other games or don't really use her anymore (G-reg, Glick (B+), Thinkaman is a project lead for BBrawl, VanZ plays melee/B+).

1. Some of the stuff copied from Alex's guide is actually mine. Give credit where credit is due please.

2. Alex's frame data includes hitlag in calculating duration, which is ********. I've talked to him and he even admitted that it was dumb. Recalulate the duration taking that into account. Duration should reflect the iasa and how punishable the move is, and including hitlag is duration gives the impression that her moves are worse than they actually are.

He also doesn't include autocancel points for her aerials. I posted them somewhere...

3. That isn't a combo list.

4. MrEh's grab-release data needs to be here.

Jigglypuff Pros
-Can be used to counterpick Diddy Kong
-Awesome at timing out matches
-near infinite recovery
-Rapes most of the cast offstage.
-Is Jigglypuff. Win.

Neutral:
-Has qualities simular to MK, Wario, and Squirtle but inferior in every aspect.
-OK aerials

Cons:
-Sucks in every way not specifically mentioned above.
-Terrible Matchups
-Will never win a regional or national ever.
-Shallow character in an equally shallow game... why are you playing this crap again?


That said I'll help with getting you better data, and perhaps write a wall of text on effectively playing gay.
 

*JuriHan*

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
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3DS FC
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#13
1. Some of the stuff copied from Alex's guide is actually mine. Give credit where credit is due please.

2. Alex's frame data includes hitlag in calculating duration, which is ********. I've talked to him and he even admitted that it was dumb. Recalulate the duration taking that into account. Duration should reflect the iasa and how punishable the move is, and including hitlag is duration gives the impression that her moves are worse than they actually are.

He also doesn't include autocancel points for her aerials. I posted them somewhere...

3. Jigglypuff Pros
-Can be used to counterpick Diddy Kong
-Awesome at timing out matches
-near infinite recovery
-Rapes most of the cast offstage.
-Is Jigglypuff. Win.

Neutral:
-Has qualities simular to MK, Wario, and Squirtle but inferior in every aspect.
-OK aerials

Cons:
-Sucks in every way not specifically mentioned above.
-Terrible Matchups
-Will never win a regional or national ever.
-Shallow character in an equally shallow game... why are you playing this crap again?


That said I'll help with getting you better data, and perhaps write a wall of text on effectively playing gay.

Ok, I apologize, I thought all the stuff under strategy was his doing. Where do you need credit?

And thanks.

and LOL @ cons hahaha
 
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#14
perhaps write a wall of text on effectively playing gay.
The only thing I agree with about your post. Please do this.

I dissagree with you helping SNO, but go right on ahead. I'm not going to argue with you because you seem to get good data which could make this looks less generic.

I don't have any opinion about what Alex did wrong, I could have screwed up royally, he could have had things spot on.
 

Veril

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#16
Yeah, I "seem" to get good data... I wonder if my colored name has something to do with that.

What's there in my post to disagree with?

lol y? Because it's going to be helpful to Jigglypuff's meta game? :confused:
The only place Jiggs metagame has to go is the ledge. It has to go there and stay there for about 8 minutes after landing a single bair.
 

*JuriHan*

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#18
The only place Jiggs metagame has to go is the ledge. It has to go there and stay there for about 8 minutes after landing a single bair.
I don't play this way, so please make a write up on timing people out. It will help me too.
 
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#19
lol y? Because it's going to be helpful to Jigglypuff's meta game? :confused:
The metagame isn't going anywhere.

This thread may make this place somewhat active again, but I don't want part in it because it might not and we might be looking over old info again.

What's there in my post to disagree with?
I meant the only thing in your post that got my attention. We have only recently established that playing gay with puff is the key to victory.

The rest is all correct, but it's common knowlage, and the stuff about Alex I wouldn't know about.
 

Veril

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#22
I think instead of arguing we should just play the f*cking game.

Jesus christ you people.
Only M is angry, I'm just being my usual finals-weary disgruntled self.

Also, we really shouldn't play this game. There are 4 better smash games to play (BBrawl, B+, Melee, and 64 are all far superior to this s***). I'm mostly here cause I want to encourage people to play brawl the way it was designed to be played: super super gay... and I like most of you and hate bad data... etc

This is what I plan on doing for the next millenium. I'm rarely posting on these boards again.
You should just come here for lolz, basically what I do. Seriously man, I just starting coming here again... don'chu leave :(
 

*JuriHan*

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#27
Well, there goes my chance of me adding useful insight or helpful suggestions to add to the liveliness of your thread. Oh noez, I posted; I MUST be trolling.
no really, it's a joke dude. What do you think I should add to it?
 

Metatitan

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#28
If you don't care about brawl jigglypuff then don't post in a thread that's trying to help, if you wanna help then post useful stuff.

Veril- I <3 you but don't bring up how you hate brawl in every subject, you sing the same song every time and quite frankly it's an eyesore now. I honestly think you should have gotten good at brawl before bashing it to the degree you do, brawl hate stopped ages ago. Melee is superior but a lot of people don't have the time/skill/fingers/patience to get amazing at it so there's brawl which is still fun depending on the character you use. Brawl+ is just a hack and I don't like the way it feels in comparison to melee (or brawl even). It's all opinion in the long run, if you hate campiness so much then just play melee (since it's a real game everyone has access to).

Fro- You're honestly dumb if you think any guide here but G-Reg's has been helpful

M- Quit trolling, you haven't contributed enough to troll effectively

Noob- Good **** as usual (nonsarcastic)

Dina- Be prepared to get some backlash and criticism, not everyone wanted a new guide so don't get pissed, compromise.

The old guide was outdated but honestly the metagame for jigglypuff is to plank, aircamp, and ledgehug. No one needs a guide to learn how to do that.
 

Noobicidal

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#29
no really, it's a joke dude. What do you think I should add to it?
Aside from me being nitpicky about a few grammatical errors and having a preference for guides to be written outside of first person (which you only used a few times throughout the piece), I see nothing major that needs to be added at the moment. I question the usefulness and reliability of the "combo" section, but we as a community can add on to that and remove faux and inconsistent combos (yeah right).

If I think of anything particularly outstanding, I'll be sure to post about it.
 

*JuriHan*

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#30
Aside from me being nitpicky about a few grammatical errors and having a preference for guides to be written outside of first person (which you only used a few times throughout the piece), I see nothing major that needs to be added at the moment. I question the usefulness and reliability of the "combo" section, but we as a community can add on to that and remove faux and inconsistent combos (yeah right).

If I think of anything particularly outstanding, I'll be sure to post about it.
yeah i have some typos and grammar errors. I'll fix them soon. I may add more stuff from Alex's old guide if I find them still useful. Thanks for your input.
 
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#31
i have a new trick for landing both kicks in f-tilt, i mess around with it in a lot of the replays i sent you today SNO. watch for true pivots followed by f-tilts i think im on to something
 

Veril

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#32
If you don't care about brawl jigglypuff then don't post in a thread that's trying to help, if you wanna help then post useful stuff.

Veril- I <3 you but don't bring up how you hate brawl in every subject, you sing the same song every time and quite frankly it's an eyesore now.
:laugh:

:p

Dude, I'll hate on this game all I want. I didn't care when you bashed B+, and that's nothing I haven't gotten tired of... Your entire point was killed when you told me to go play melee. I already do. B+ isn't just a hack in NY, its pretty well-established, so I can freely disregard your intensely condescending advice.
 
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#33
jiggz metagame has never slowed down for me. every time i play this game i either pick up on something new or simply improve in consistency. Ive always been extremely creative since i was young. While most people lose their imagination as they grow older, I've never lost my youthful spirit and creativity. Jiggz doesn't suck, her mind game possibilities are endless and she can dominate the ground just as well as the air. Brawl jiggz is the **** and shes the embodiment of my ideal character. Every possible option i can think of, i can do so with her. You can hate all you want on brawl jiggz, but if you give up on her, your simply not skilled enough to use her and don't deserve to play such an incredibly pro character choice. :D
 

*JuriHan*

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#34
jiggz metagame has never slowed down for me. every time i play this game i either pick up on something new or simply improve in consistency. Ive always been extremely creative since i was young. While most people lose their imagination as they grow older, I've never lost my youthful spirit and creativity. Jiggz doesn't suck, her mind game possibilities are endless and she can dominate the ground just as well as the air. Brawl jiggz is the **** and shes the embodiment of my ideal character. Every possible option i can think of, i can do so with her. You can hate all you want on brawl jiggz, but if you give up on her, your simply not skilled enough to use her and don't deserve to play such an incredibly pro character choice. :D
Woody, make a write up on how to approach with her please.
 

Tham

Smash Apprentice
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#35
i love people writing this
of course jiggs is no uber imba char like MK or Snake, shes a way harder to play on the same level as S-Tiers, but I don't think that she sux
I'm playing her from brawl release in Europe till today and never thought of switching the charakter
and I think thats something you can not get because of a guide: experience with the charakter

i just have read this thread and i have to say: the guide is nice and when some Germans will ask me what to do with jigglypuff, I'll link this thread^^
but I think: if you just rely on a guide you will not try things yourself
at the beginning there were no guides, just thinks you knew from melee and everybody who played jiggs saw the same things (e.g. good moves) - why not write this into a guide?
well ... i think its better to get the experience yourself, dtilt your opponent at 150% after he trips is a thing you will never do again after doing it yourself xD
all in all ... my post goes more and more offtopic

im looking forward to read more ;)
 

Veril

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#36
Jigglypuff is really cool, but not very good. She definitely has use on teams and as a diddy counter. Other than that though... she's nothing special. Jiggs in Brawl isn't unique and that's the most significant reason people don't play her. She moves like a slow Wario, she gimps like a nerfed MK, she spaces like Marth with a kitchen knife. She has some crazy powerful moves, but they're all really situational... some combos, but nothing like Luigi's jab-upb or Kirby's various tricks.

Her recovery is amazing, but since she's so light its still not especially hard to KO her (and I have fantastic DI so don't even bring that s*** up). All the high tiers are either super-heavy, have excellent momentum canceling techniques, or in the case of Snake, both. Jigglypuff has neither.

You can get almost everything good Jiggs has and a ton she doesn't from: Kirby, MK, or Wario. She has the same problem Lucas does, no "broken" quality that can propel her into viability, without all the sexy coolness of his gimicks.

If you think there's any reason to play Jiggs other than to emasculate your opponents, beat diddy, or cause she's super-cute, than you're fooling yourself. If a Jigglypuff goes and wins a major tournament in a hard region like NY/NJ, Ann Arbor, etc, then we can talk about her "mindgame potential". People like Woody definitely get mad props for working so hard at Jiggs, but they're shooting themselves in the foot. You can definitely use Jiggs as a second, or even win with her in local tourneys/wifibs but if you actually want to win, she's a poor choice when there are so many good options that are so similar to her.

EDIT: She's definitely a top teams character. Using her in doubles is a good idea. The above post refers to Jiggs in singles.
 

*JuriHan*

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#37
Jigglypuff is really cool, but not very good. She definitely has use on teams and as a diddy counter. Other than that though... she's nothing special. Jiggs in Brawl isn't unique and that's the most significant reason people don't play her. She moves like a slow Wario, she gimps like a nerfed MK, she spaces like Marth with a kitchen knife. She has some crazy powerful moves, but they're all really situational... some combos, but nothing like Luigi's jab-upb or Kirby's various tricks.

Her recovery is amazing, but since she's so light its still not especially hard to KO her (and I have fantastic DI so don't even bring that s*** up). All the high tiers are either super-heavy, have excellent momentum canceling techniques, or in the case of Snake, both. Jigglypuff has neither.

You can get almost everything good Jiggs has and a ton she doesn't from: Kirby, MK, or Wario. She has the same problem Lucas does, no "broken" quality that can propel her into viability, without all the sexy coolness of his gimicks.

If you think there's any reason to play Jiggs other than to emasculate your opponents, beat diddy, or cause she's super-cute, than you're fooling yourself. If a Jigglypuff goes and wins a major tournament in a hard region like NY/NJ, Ann Arbor, etc, then we can talk about her "mindgame potential". People like Woody definitely get mad props for working so hard at Jiggs, but they're shooting themselves in the foot. You can definitely use Jiggs as a second, or even win with her in local tourneys/wifibs but if you actually want to win, she's a poor choice when there are so many good options that are so similar to her.

EDIT: She's definitely a top teams character. Using her in doubles is a good idea. The above post refers to Jiggs in singles.
Yeah im using her for Diddy and Ice Climbers, both which are a pain to fight as Kirby. I will also use her for other Kirbys, because I hate Dittos so much.
 

Veril

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#38
Using Jiggs for Kirby is a bad idea. idk, I'll play Allied's Kirby next time I see him if we play any vBrawl. The new GSH set just got released so I'm gonna be all over that during winter break. That and melee :D
 

Tham

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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#40
u said about fair and bair for killing ... but what about nair?
if i think about a move for stagespiking with jiggs, i think at once about the nair ...

and maybe use this, its maybe better than such a black BG pic, but dunno if i rendered it right ...


and if u use the usmash oos right you can use it for killing too, but thats very specific ...

still nice article xD
 
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