The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[Nergal]

also, if the 4th gen needs so much rep, then why does it have to be lucario. i know mime jr., munchlax, and weaville would be excellent additions with good chances, fanbases, and they are all 4th gen

I want them represented as well, I just want Lucario the most as a PC.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Now Squirtle has more or less been confirmed playable with Pokemon Trainer.

That being said, Squirtle for god tier.

 

[Black/Light]

No, he doesn't take up three slots. In fact, it seems like one of the big reasons the pokemon trainer is even incorporated is so that Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle take up one slot. Yes, it took time to make almost 3 complete characters, but they're all literally taking up the same character slot.

Actually I think it's the other way around. That Trainer Red was going to be playable and they chose to take the 3 starters of his gen and have them be his move-set.

But on to my point. Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle may only take up ONE "slot" but they are all complete characters that had to have the same (or around so) amount of time, effort, planing, balancing, coding etc as a character like MK/ Wario/ Pitt or Ike.

It's like this. . . .
Each character is like a 4 page essay (for example).
They have to make a 4 page essay and place it inside a folder for you to choose on the selection scene ( character slots ).
With pokemon trainer they had to not only make 3 of these 4 page essays but also make like 1 page for everything the trainer does ( things in Story mode/ tunts/ his command animations/ how ever he moves on moving stages/ victory dance maybe (he might be in them).) plus other things.

Now, with 13 pages of stuff, does putting it in one folder make any difference? Does it give them back all the time that was put into doing this? Does it = the same amount of time a effort put into only one character now?

Pokemon still has 4 Playable Characters as of now that we know of so does it matter if M2, Pichu and Jpuff come back and we only have 5 character slots on the sceen? That makes 7 characters for Pokemon just like how LoZ has 5 in melee (Link, Gannon, Y.Link, Zelda AND Sheik).

But I do think that we will get more new pokemon. . . what gens will they be from? Who will they be? How many will be added? IDK. . .

 

[Nergal]

Actually I think it's the other way around. That Trainer Red was going to be playable and they chose to take the 3 starters of his gen and have them be his move-set.

But on to my point. Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle may only take up ONE "slot" but they are all complete characters that had to have the same (or around so) amount of time, effort, planing, balancing, coding etc as a character like MK/ Wario/ Pitt or Ike.

It's like this. . . .
Each character is like a 4 page essay (for example).
They have to make a 4 page essay and place it inside a folder for you to choose on the selection scene ( character slots ).
With pokemon trainer they had to not only make 3 of these 4 page essays but also make like 1 page for everything the trainer does ( things in Story mode/ tunts/ his command animations/ how ever he moves on moving stages/ victory dance maybe (he might be in them).) plus other things.

Now, with 13 pages of stuff, does putting it in one folder make any difference? Pokemon still has 4 Playable Characters as of now that we know of so does it matter if Pichu gets cut and PT takes his place well M2 and Jpuff come back? That makes 6 characters for Pokemon just like how LoZ has 5 in melee (Link, Gannon, Y.Link, Zelda AND Sheik).

But I do think that we will get more new pokemon. . . what gens will they be from? Who will they be? How many will be added? IDK. . .

If that were the case then Squirtle, Ivysaur, & Charizard would have been confirmed separately.

 

[Black/Light]

If that were the case then Squirtle, Ivysaur, & Charizard would have been confirmed separately.

. . .What?

They are all under Trainer Red's slot because he has them all as his 3 move sets.

 

[Fawriel]

They aren't complete. You are restricted in their usage. You can NOT possibly claim that you'll main Squirtle only, for example. You have to use the whole team, because that's what it is. One team. ( Maybe you can find a loophole and only use two, but that's beside the point. ) And that's why they are categorized under "Pokemon Trainer", because it's his team.

 

[_the_sandman_]

You guys are acting like Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard aren't playable characters just because they're not seperate.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can physically pick up the controller and use both A and B attacks with these characters. Sakurai isn't lying to us, he is allowing us to use these three playable pokemon characters. Quit acting like they aren't playable, because everyone knows they really are no matter how thick headed they are.

 

[Fawriel]

I'm not saying they aren't playable, I'm just saying they aren't separate. They are a unit.
Their movesets are ( almost ) as complete as all others and they took a lot of time to make, but in the end, they are part of one "character", since you can't actually just use one. Unless the battle's really, really short. That's all. *shrugs*

 

[Black/Light]

They aren't complete. You are restricted in their usage. You can NOT possibly claim that you'll main Squirtle only, for example. You have to use the whole team, because that's what it is. One team. ( Maybe you can find a loophole and only use two, but that's beside the point. )

They still have complete move sets and are complete characters that have o do w/e the other characters do. All that they don't have is a B down.

And this restricted system is only fixing what was wrong with Zelda. Yes, you can "main" Ivy or Char. . . . just find away to use said pokemon just enuff to not screw them up before changing them up. As in, you can probly use one of them more than the others if you change them enuff.

We don't really know just what happens to the pokemon if you play them for too long so it could very well be something you can find a loophole in and "main" in one of the 3 by playing it more than the others.

Yea, they are apart of "one" character. . . but each is a different character in their own right. So PT counts as 3 move-set (aka 3 characters).

 

[Circus]

You guys are acting like Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard aren't playable characters just because they're not seperate.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can physically pick up the controller and use both A and B attacks with these characters. Sakurai isn't lying to us, he is allowing us to use these three playable pokemon characters. Quit acting like they aren't playable, because everyone knows they really are no matter how thick headed they are.

Yes, they are playable.

The point that I know that I, personally, was trying to make is that I don't think the PT himself was added because Sakurai likes him. I think he wanted to add the starter pokemon, but didn't want to take up 3 character slots, so he found a way of including them all in one slot on the roster. The bonus is: "Transformation" makes the characters that much more unique.

I truly believe that Sakurai put them all as one character for a reason though. The PT isn't there because he's deserving; he's there because he's a method of saving character slots on the character select screen. That's my opinion. He's saving those extra spaces for SOMEBODY. They may go to Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, hell one could go to Pichu again. But I do think Sakurai conserved spaces in this way on purpose.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Besides with the addition of 3 more pokemon I really doubt Lucario can compare, in fact he really isn't needed at this point. We shouldn't be expecting TOO many pokemon characters now, I think the possible 4 is enough. (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Trainer)

 

[Black/Light]

I truly believe that Sakurai put them all as one character for a reason though. The PT isn't there because he's deserving; he's there because he's a method of saving character slots on the character select screen. That's my opinion. He's saving those extra spaces for SOMEBODY. They may go to Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, hell one could go to Pichu again. But I do think Sakurai conserved spaces in this way on purpose.

Whats up with you all and these "slots"?

Sakuria- Ok team, we only have enuff time to make 45 characters. . . so ONE way around that is to make 3 complete characters but only put them in one slot as to save space! That makes sense. . . I mean, the pokemon trainer will save space and time by making 3 characters but only have one icon for them.

And IDK if you knew this or not but pokemon Trainer Red was 3rd on the melee pokemon polls. Im pretty sure that the starters are a by produce of that.

 

[Nergal]

. . .What?

They are all under Trainer Red's slot because he has them all as his 3 move sets.

But they are a unit. Think as if they're tagging Ice Climbers. You need all of them.

They still have complete move sets and are complete characters that have o do w/e the other characters do. All that they don't have is a B down.

And this restricted system is only fixing what was wrong with Zelda. Yes, you can "main" Ivy or Char. . . . just find away to use said pokemon just enuff to not screw them up before changing them up. As in, you can probly use one of them more than the others if you change them enuff.

We don't really know just what happens to the pokemon if you play them for too long so it could very well be something you can find a loophole in and "main" in one of the 3 by playing it more than the others.

Yea, they are apart of "one" character. . . but each is a different character in their own right. So PT counts as 3 move-set (aka 3 characters).

That doesn't make them stand-alone characters. Once again, they are a unit.

Besides with the addition of 3 more pokemon I really doubt Lucario can compare, in fact he really isn't needed at this point. We shouldn't be expecting TOO many pokemon characters now, I think the possible 4 is enough. (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Trainer)

With 40+ characters supposed to be playable, it's absurd to think that one or two more pokemon extra is too much.

 

[Stryks]

Besides its the trainer, I mean they aint gonna give him randon pokemon like an arbok, raticate or magmar, seeing how hes the fire red trainer, its kinda obvious to give him the starters, EVERY player of the fire red IN THE WORLD would have at least picked one of those 3...

if it were gold it would have been typhlosion, bayleaf and totodile, ruby trainer would have been blaziken, grovyle and mudkip and so on...

its not like those 3 are important to the series in some way other than being the 1st 3 starters...

 

[Fawriel]

My final word in this ( forever or at least until I get back from my involuntary week off the internet ):

In order to represent an insanely popular series with such an INSANELY large "cast", it seems like a really clever trick to me to add one character who is practically four in one, but in the end still makes the Mario and Zelda franchise represented more in terms of "slots".

Of course, "slots" are not much of an argument for character inclusions in general, but comparatively, I think they'll attempt to bring a certain balance into the franchises by the number of reps. And so far, Mario and Zelda, being the most important 100% Nintendo franchises, had the most reps - on the paper, at least.

That's all. Feel free to disagree, that's my theory on how Sakurai thinks.

 

[Black/Light]

But they are a unit. Think as if they're tagging Ice Climbers. You need all of them..

??QUE???
So if they took MK/ Pitt/ Wario, took away their B downs and had a system made to make sure that you swap them out that makes them just one character?

The Ic is just a team where you play as two characters at one time. Nana doesn't have a different move-set that you can play with nor does she swap out.


.

That doesn't make them stand-alone characters. Once again, they are a unit..

They are stand alone characters in the fact that they (un like the IC) don't share their moves with each other. They all have a unique moveset to them and all fight alone. Just because they happen to be "transformations" doesn't make them any less than the others in their move-sets and time to which it took to make them.

(They are about as much of a "stand alone" character as Shiek)

In other words, they are 3 characters, just under one slot with swaping between them.

"I guess you could say using this character is like playing three for the price of one!"

3 characters, one selection on the selection screen. There, 3 for one. . . not ICs but Zelda/ Shiek.

 

[Circus]

??QUE???
So if they took MK/ Pitt/ Wario, took away their B downs and had a system made to make sure that you swap them out that makes them just one character?

The Ic is just a team where you play as two characters at one time. Nana doesn't have a different move-set that you can play with nor does she swap out.


. They are stand alone characters in the fact that they (un like the IC) don't share their moves with each other. They all have a unique moveset to them and all fight alone. Just because they happen to be "transformations" doesn't make them any less than the others in their move-sets and time to which it took to make them.

(They are about as much of a "stand alone" character as Shiek)

In other words, they are 3 characters, just under one slot with swaping between them.

"I guess you could say using this character is like playing three for the price of one!"

3 characters, one selection on the selection screen. There, 3 for one. . . not ICs but Zelda/ Shiek.

*sigh* I think you're still missing what we're saying.

Yes, they are three playable characters. There is no denying that.

BUT, they were lumped into one overall character for a reason. Sakurai could've made them each a separate character, but he didn't. He chose to have them inhabit one slot. The reason this is important is because it implies that Sakurai might be saving the extra two spaces the pokemon would have taken up on the roster for other characters. It's possible that he only did it as a way to work Red in without him being lame, or he may have just really wanted another "transforming" character, but it's certainly worth considering.

 

[Black/Light]

*sigh* I think you're still missing what we're saying.

Yes, they are three playable characters. There is no denying that.
Than WHAT are you 2 talking about? It's not "saving space". In fact, it comsumes more space. . .

BUT, they were lumped into one overall character for a reason. Yea, that reason is to make a unique character. It aint called the Squ-Ivy-Char character, it's the pokemon trainer. . . the 3rd most picked Pokemon character on the melee polls behind mew and Mew2. Sakurai could've made them each a separate character, but he didn't. He chose to have them inhabit one slot. The reason this is important is because it implies that Sakurai might be saving the extra two spaces the pokemon would have taken up on the roster for other characters.

I don't think you get it. YOU are counting pokey rep in slots but WE are counting pokey rep in characters. A "slot" is just a icon, a tag to pick the characters on the screen. The characters you play as are what matter and they have tooken ot the time, effort and space to make 3 new characters for pokemon that we know of.

 

[Stryks]

So black/light, by ur logic u mean we already have 4 pokemons characters in brawl, meaning 4 reps, and with mew2 probable staying, having a total of 5??

 

[Circus]

I don't think you get it. YOU are counting pokey rep in slots but WE are counting pokey rep in characters. A "slot" is just a icon, a tag to pick the characters on the screen. The characters you play as are what matter and they have tooken ot the time, effort and space to make 3 new characters for pokemon that we know of.

*long, drawn out sigh*

Yes. I know. I've stated it before, myself. They took the time to make 3 characters. IT DID NOT SAVE THEM ANY TIME TO MAKE THEM INTO ONE CHARACTER SLOT, AND I REALIZE THIS. I'm not stupid.

All I'm saying is that they COULD have made the 3 pokemon separate. They did not. They will occupy the same space on the character select screen. This might mean that Sakurai is planning on having more pokemon on the screen and put the 3 starters in the same slot so that the screen is not as cluttered with pokemon. I'm not saying that's what he did, I'm just saying that's what he may have done. He and his team spent the time and effort to make three characters—I seriously already know that. I'm just saying that there's a reason he decided to put those characters into one single "folder", as I believe you put it. It's just worth some speculation as to why that might be. . . .

 

[BlackSmoke]

*long, drawn out sigh*

Yes. I know. I've stated it before, myself. They took the time to make 3 characters. IT DID NOT SAVE THEM ANY TIME TO MAKE THEM INTO ONE CHARACTER SLOT, AND I REALIZE THIS. I'm not stupid.

All I'm saying is that they COULD have made the 3 pokemon separate. They did not. They will occupy the same space on the character select screen. This might mean that Sakurai is planning on having more pokemon on the screen and put the 3 starters in the same slot so that the screen is not as cluttered with pokemon. I'm not saying that's what he did, I'm just saying that's what he may have done. He and his team spent the time and effort to make three characters—I seriously already know that. I'm just saying that there's a reason he decided to put those characters into one single "folder", as I believe you put it. It's just worth some speculation as to why that might be. . . .

Just sums my views, most likely will get attleast one new pokemon char. >.> This back and forth looks like it has no end in sight.

 

[_the_sandman_]

This is ridulous....

Pokemon Trainer is one character on the roster that is made up of 3 different pokemon characters.

In any case, he is better than anything Lucario could have given us.

 

[Circus]

This is ridulous....

Pokemon Trainer is one character on the roster that is made up of 3 different pokemon characters.

In any case, he is better than anything Lucario could have given us.

No ****.

Also, that last sentence is just plain biased. For all we know, Red might be inherently bad or unfun to play as. We don't know yet. And we don't know exactly what Lucario could or would offer in Smash.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Why is it biased? I'm sorry if Lucario can't offer anything new to the roster. Its not my fault he's such a lame character.

 

[Circus]

Why is it biased? I'm sorry if Lucario can't offer anything new to the roster. Its not my fault he's such a lame character.

It's biased basically because you haven't played Brawl, and Sakurai has barely even mentioned anything about how PT will really play. Yeah, we know the basics, but we don't actually know how useful or fun he'll be. Plus, we have no idea how Sakurai and his team would include Lucario in Brawl. We don't know what kind of moveset they'd give him. Every character has as much to offer as the game maker sees in him or her. If Sakurai were to see potential in Lucario, he could make him a good character—simple as that.

The only reason you say he can't offer anything is because you don't like him. I know you think he's overrated, looks silly, isn't unique, etc., and that's fair. But, that's your opinion. As you well know, several people disagree with you. For all we know, Sakurai may even be one of those people.

 

[brawlpro]

Why is it biased? I'm sorry if Lucario can't offer anything new to the roster. Its not my fault he's such a lame character.

he isn't a lame character...

 

[Black/Light]

So black/light, by ur logic u mean we already have 4 pokemons characters in brawl, meaning 4 reps, and with mew2 probable staying, having a total of 5??

Yes, we have 4 playable pokemon confirmed for Brawl. And Im very sure Mew2 is coming back.

*long, drawn out sigh* Sighing isn't going to get you any where. . .

Yes. I know. I've stated it before, myself. They took the time to make 3 characters. IT DID NOT SAVE THEM ANY TIME TO MAKE THEM INTO ONE CHARACTER SLOT, AND I REALIZE THIS. I'm not stupid. GOOD, That was my flippen point.

All I'm saying is that they COULD have made the 3 pokemon separate. (That is true )They did not. They will occupy the same space on the character select screen. This might mean that Sakurai is planning on having more pokemon on the screen and put the 3 starters in the same slot so that the screen is not as cluttered with pokemon. I'm not saying that's what he did, I'm just saying that's what he may have done. He and his team spent the time and effort to make three characters—I seriously already know that. I'm just saying that there's a reason he decided to put those characters into one single "folder", as I believe you put it. It's just worth some speculation as to why that might be. . . .

And my "speculation" on this is simple. All 3 are VERY unique characters. . . but putting them together like this is by FARE one of the most unique things to happen to any character in this game up to this point. Not only did he add the 3rd most asked for pokemon character from the melee polls (Trainer Red-Aka Ash), he also managed to make it simulate the actual pokemon games by having him use pokemon to fight for him in a non-gocky pokemon summoning manner.

IDK how much "speculation" this needs. At the heart of it this is the way Pokemon Trainer Red fights in game and he IS the "main character" of his respective games. Actually, this makes the most sense when you think about it. The games are about you (PokemonTrainer) training and battleing pokemon and this is very much how you do it. He even goes so fare as to force you to change them up like a true trainer from the games.

I don't see Pokemon having 7 "folders" and Mario having 7 "folders" when Pokemon has 3 playable characters in one "folder" if slots are a reason.
(good to clear this up . . .)

 

[Xanderous]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Every Pokemon post-Kanto is just embarrassing to look at. Some seriously bad designs after they realized Pokemon = money and they didn't have to work to make a quality game.

 

[Circus]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Every Pokemon post-Kanto is just embarrassing to look at. Some seriously bad designs after they realized Pokemon = money and they didn't have to work to make a quality game.

I wouldn't say every pokemon post-Kanto, but they certainly do get worse as the generations go on. They gradually get more and more random and ugly (that "Claydol" or whatever it is? Please)

Among the 4th gen, there are very few pokemon I'd consider to be appealing. Even Lucario, I admit, isn't much of a looker.

 

[OmegaXXII]

after seeing the Lucario movie yesterday, it made me have second thoughts about him, and now it makes me want to see Lucario in Brawl because I have never really been into him before, but know that Deoxys doesn't have a chance (since it is in a pokeball) I know believe Lucario would be a perfect fit to go with the Brawl roster and Squirtle obviously made it with the Pokemon trainer, so it will be nice to see Lucario v.Squirtle

 

[kaid]

The "Slot" argument is a misnomer.

In melee, Zelda and shiek were two characters, but they were one "Zelda rep"
Likewise, PT in Brawl is 3 characters, but only one "poke rep".

This is only a really important distinction for the "big 3" franchises, who have always had the largest (and approximatly co-equal) representation in smash. In melee, both Pokemon and Zelda had 4 "reps", but Zelda/shiek gave them 5 characters

PT is 3 characters, but it is only one rep... and since we can expect co-equal "reps" between Pokemon, Zelda, and Mario, we can expect at least 2, and possibly as many as 4 other pokemon to eventually be revealed.

That could give Pokemon 8 "characters", but it would only be 6 "slots"

 

[Circus]

The "Slot" argument is a misnomer.

In melee, Zelda and shiek were two characters, but they were one "Zelda rep"
Likewise, PT in Brawl is 3 characters, but only one "poke rep".

This is only a really important distinction for the "big 3" franchises, who have always had the largest (and approximatly co-equal) representation in smash. In melee, both Pokemon and Zelda had 4 "reps", but Zelda/shiek gave them 5 characters

PT is 3 characters, but it is only one rep... and since we can expect co-equal "reps" between Pokemon, Zelda, and Mario, we can expect at least 2, and possibly as many as 4 other pokemon to eventually be revealed.

That could give Pokemon 8 "characters", but it would only be 6 "slots"

Thank you. You explained that so much better than the way I was trying to.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I think 8 would be to much , but then again if Sakurai included 47+ characters then i would see it happening

 

[kaid]

8 would be counting Squitle, Char, and Ivy as different characters. (which is only really relivant when you are talking about a cap on total characters in the game)

 

[petre]

I'm going to ignore most of your post because I'm just so tired of talking about this whole issue, but I feel the need to point this one thing out.

No, he doesn't take up three slots. In fact, it seems like one of the big reasons the pokemon trainer is even incorporated is so that Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle take up one slot. Yes, it took time to make almost 3 complete characters, but they're all literally taking up the same character slot.

technically, youre sort of right, they will only be a single slot on the character select screen, and it will be a single character that gains the victory. however, it did not take the same time/use the same amount of memory as it does for other single characters. it took them 3 times the amount of each for this, and it uses 3 character slots in the game memory. and while they are all contained in one select screen slot, there are still 3 new playable characters, that each have their own unique moveset, save for a single attack. you cant tell me honestly that those three should be considered only 1 new pokemon. because thats completely false. they are 3 new pokemon that are playable with their own movesets.

zelda and sheik were both accessed to use from a single spot on the character select screen, but they are two different character models with their own movesets and physics. and you could say theyre the same because of some zelda storyline john, but the reality is that they are still two different playable characters in melee, that have one less move than all other characters. is one move less enough to consider them not full characters? i dont think so.

 

[Circus]

technically, youre sort of right, they will only be a single slot on the character select screen, and it will be a single character that gains the victory. however, it did not take the same time/use the same amount of memory as it does for other single characters. it took them 3 times the amount of each for this, and it uses 3 character slots in the game memory. and while they are all contained in one select screen slot, there are still 3 new playable characters, that each have their own unique moveset, save for a single attack. you cant tell me honestly that those three should be considered only 1 new pokemon. because thats completely false. they are 3 new pokemon that are playable with their own movesets.

zelda and sheik were both accessed to use from a single spot on the character select screen, but they are two different character models with their own movesets and physics. and you could say theyre the same because of some zelda storyline john, but the reality is that they are still two different playable characters in melee, that have one less move than all other characters. is one move less enough to consider them not full characters? i dont think so.

I share this exact same view, so there's no reason to argue. I fully recognize the fact that Charizard, Ivysaur, and Squirtle are full characters, but PT is still one pokemon representative. Read Kaid's post if that doesn't make sense, I think he did a good job of explaining what I was trying to on the last page.

I guess I'm not good at explaining things; I didn't realize so many people were going to misunderstand what I was saying.

 

[OmegaXXII]

indeed correct, they may take one slot in the game , but they are still considered as 3 characters in the game that take space up along that they have there own movesets, the only thing Sakurai did was put 3 characters in on slot, but the space it takes in the game is a still there

 

[petre]

oh its ok lol, yeah it sounded like you were trying to say they were all a single playable character...

i myself am still going to consider them 3 reps for pokemon though (maybe i should count 4 with the trainer...lol jk).

 

[Black/Light]

The "Slot" argument is a misnomer.

In melee, Zelda and shiek were two characters, but they were one "Zelda rep"
Likewise, PT in Brawl is 3 characters, but only one "poke rep".

This is only a really important distinction for the "big 3" franchises, who have always had the largest (and approximatly co-equal) representation in smash. In melee, both Pokemon and Zelda had 4 "reps", but Zelda/shiek gave them 5 characters

PT is 3 characters, but it is only one rep... and since we can expect co-equal "reps" between Pokemon, Zelda, and Mario, we can expect at least 2, and possibly as many as 4 other pokemon to eventually be revealed.

That could give Pokemon 8 "characters", but it would only be 6 "slots"

This doesn't sound. . .correct.

So the difference between "reps" and characters are that the "reps" have slots by your logic, right? Well, I don't see them making too many more "reps" for a series that has soo much time put into one "rep".

And Mario very much overshadowed the other 2 of the "big 3" in melee from both the characters and "reps" view points. Chances are that Mario characters will be more than or = to that of the other 2.
So no, I don't see pokemon and mario having the same amount of "reps" well Pokemon ends up with more characters.

How do I see it? Much like this. . .
Mario-7/8 characters
LoZ-6/7 characters
Pokemon-6/7 characters

And given that Mew2 is likely coming back well Jpuff could very well do so too I think that, at the most, we will get 2 new "slots" for pokemon (I think 1 is more likely). And this is assuming that pichu leaves and that PT replaced him.

Really, I think that the only rule is that Mario gets the most characters and that the other 2 series are not fare behind. Anything else is up to guesses. . .

 

[Snakz]

I didn't realize so many people can be confused about the slots thing

@ sandman

Look, im just gonna say one thing, ive been reading this thread since PT was confirmed, you are entitled to your opinion, no question. Frankly i dont really care about Lucario that much, if he's in, great, the more the merrier. If he's not, oh well, maybe next time.

You can say whatever you want why you think lucario, or any other character or pokemon SHOULDN'T be in brawl for i care. But i dont feel you have any right, like anyone else, to say he WONT be in brawl. There's no way to know for sure until we get a confirmation or unconfirmation from Sakurai. End. of. Story.