The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[ylink_underestimted]

I was refferring to the fact that they suck for movesets FOR the pokemon games... >_>;

Most of the steel type moves are stupid... You make your hand metal or something and smack someone with it...

Lol Bronzong's flash cannon comes from his anal crevices...

haha Brozong's flash cannon. yea i know most of the steel moves are stupid, but u never know. Sakurai could probably use some of them...

i wasn't really saying why add them i was saying why add them in context to advertizing but yea i know he likes retro characters. I was just making a point.

heh. i was trying to...

 

[dynamic_entry]

i have a shiny Bronzong.......


anyways off topic, who thinks which eevee-lution is the best? i think espeon. so sleek.

 

[ylink_underestimted]

my Brozong's shiny too...can i see yours? hahahaha

well, i dont know y u asked that in the Anti Lucario thread, but my answer would be Espeon and Flareon. i choose both (heh heh I CHOOSE U!) cuz Espeon is a good Pokemon and Flareon, my favorite element for anything is fire so yea...

 

[dynamic_entry]

my Brozong's shiny too...can i see yours? hahahaha

well, i dont know y u asked that in the Anti Lucario thread, but my answer would be Espeon and Flareon. i choose both (heh heh I CHOOSE U!) cuz Espeon is a good Pokemon and Flareon, my favorite element for anything is fire so yea...

shiny bronzong is green. i dont use him. im prolly trade him for some rare female and BREED!

Flareon? worst move pool in the game, but he looks fluffy......

 

[Gregarfalzar]

im sorry but....

sorry, but what u are saying...HAS NO SENSE!, darn it, u are just messing up with one of the coolest pokemon ever, maybe lucario is not very famous, so what!?, and movesets, why is that so demeaning, guide on the movie or give extra moves, like pikachu, it cant learn skull bash but in smash he can, an example moveset for lucario can be

up B: Extremespeed
B:AuraSphere
B Frontal: Drain Punch
B Down: Me first

and by fighting style, come on!, lucario is a fighting pokemon, think it....

Whatever

 

[OysterMeister]

Ok tell me of ANY 3rd gen pokemon with a body structure and height of a fighter, with the popularity and all to be in brawl? only gardevior has a chance cause the **** like her... theyre arent many pokemon on the nwer gens that have the brawl status, if anything groundon and deoxys are a sig...

Well, Deoxys was third gen, remember? But he got Pokeballed, no playable character here. And Blaziken was pretty popular there for a while.
But the real question is why do you think a pokemon needs the height and build of a fighter? Does ivysaur have the height and build of a fighter? Does Pikachu?
You don't need to look like a fighter to get into Brawl, so all the third gen pokemon are still possible.

a sign that means hes taking consideration of the newer gens, other wise if like mr sandman said they will only represent the 1st gen, why add the other pokemon if theyre not recognizable? the newer gens are gettin representation, if its either pokeball or PC, but its happening,

Well, if you'll recall, my point was that the newer gens only really got representation through pokeballs. We've had one playable character from the newer generations in melee, but he was a clone, not a real, unique, character addition. And the new character we've got in Brawl is first gen, the only newer gen pokemon we've seen have been pokeball pokemon.

and lucario has the brawl-character status, has the popularity, the uniqeuness (any pokemon can be unique in smash), and has the ability to speak like mewtwo (just wanted to say that XD) they dont NEED to represent all the gens for PC, but I HIGHLY doubt where just getting 1st gens...

Lucario doesn't have the Brawl character statues because he's not a Brawl character. And while I'm sure he COULD be a character, what I want to know is what makes you so sure that Sakurai plans on adding any more playable pokemon characters, and what makes you think that hell add one from a later generation?

BTW we just have 2 1st gens PCs, since charizard, Ivy and squirtle are part of his moveset, they may have a moveset but are not actual character ala shiek, other wise we would have gotten a profile today... just like zamus after they showed what revealed the transformation...

That's faulty logic. Remember: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because we haven't gotten a post detailing three movesets doesn't mean that the three trainer pokemon don't each have a full moveset.
What we HAVE gotten is Sakurai saying that the Pokemon Trainer is like three characters for the price of one. Three characters for the price of one. That sounds like three movesets to me, doesn't it?

 

[DarkKry4]

I pretty much agree on everything OysterMeister said. Stryks you keep say that Lucario has a better chance of getting in just because he has the height and build of a fighter? That makes no sense. Sakarai's own character Kirby doesnt have a height and build of a fighter but he made it in. So whats your point?

What makes smash bros so unique is the different body types and movesets. If everyone in the game had the build of a fighter it'd be a boring game wouldnt it. So it doesnt mean Lucario's chances increases just because he has a build of a fighter.

 

[Black/Light]

. . . .Im sorry but you have to be in some kind of shock from the alsome MONDAY update to say that charizard, Ivy and squirtle are not characters but just "part" of his move-set Stryks.

Lets run down the list of things that a character needs and what these 3 have.

1.Animations for everything that can affect them in a fight with other characters.(damage animations)
2.A model for them.
3.Animations for holding items (like guns, swords, boxes, cracker poppers etc), grabing edges, grabs and throws/ attacks/ blokes etc.
4.Stat balancing to make sure that they aint broken.
5.A MOVE SET plus other things I may not be listing.

Using common sense I can tell that they have to have all of these seeing as the trainer doesn't directly fight as stated by Sakurai. They each have a full move-set (save down b) as well seeing as the only move that they DONT have is a B down as seen in the update.

It took the same time and effort to make them just like with any other brand new character so yeah, they are all their own characters. When Trainer Red gets his Up B and B> update it will be each of the 3 pokemon's moves together. . . .but each will have their own B^/B>.

And I agree with eveything OysterMeister said. They have a god dam 4 legged plant pokemon as a PC for goddess's shack. . . being human shaped=/=a reason for jack. This one character makes a TON of other pokemon possible who we wouldn't have thought to support because of the "2 legs rule" people made up.

 

[dynamic_entry]

I pretty much agree on everything OysterMeister said. Stryks you keep say that Lucario has a better chance of getting in just because he has the height and build of a fighter? That makes no sense. Sakarai's own character Kirby doesnt have a height and build of a fighter but he made it in. So whats your point?

What makes smash bros so unique is the different body types and movesets. If everyone in the game had the build of a fighter it'd be a boring game wouldnt it. So it doesnt mean Lucario's chances increases just because he has a build of a fighter.

he's also arguing that the latest generation of pokemon needs a representative, and he's right. for sakurai to miss a chance to piggyback a character off of the success of diamond and pearl would be pretty unintelligent. whether he chooses Lucario, Munchlax (fan favourites and unofficial mascots of the newer games) or a different pokemon is anyones guess, but i'd hedge my bets on a 4th generation pokemon making it into brawl.

 

[OysterMeister]

he's also arguing that the latest generation of pokemon needs a representative, and he's right. for sakurai to miss a chance to piggyback a character off of the success of diamond and pearl would be pretty unintelligent. whether he chooses Lucario, Munchlax (fan favourites and unofficial mascots of the newer games) or a different pokemon is anyones guess, but i'd hedge my bets on a 4th generation pokemon making it into brawl.

So a fourth gen Pokemon will get added because it would have some kind of synergy with Diamond and Pearl? I suppose that's all possible (worked for Roy) but is it really that likely?

I don't think either of these games need the other. I highly doubt that adding any fourth gen Pokemon to Brawl could possibly help Diamond and Pearl sell any better than they already have. And I also doubt that Brawl needs any help from the Pokemon series in order to become a record-breaking best seller. So would Sakurai really find it that necessary to rep a later generation with a new character?

After all, the trainer adds three new character movesets to the game. Is it really that likely that Sakurai would add a fourth?

 

[axemangx]

I have a funny feeling Sakurai didnt make Squirtle a seperate character for odvious moveset faults.

 

[Nergal]

I have a funny feeling Sakurai didnt make Squirtle a seperate character for odvious moveset faults.

No, I think he genuinely wanted to do something unique.

 

[Tiamat]

he's also arguing that the latest generation of pokemon needs a representative, and he's right. for sakurai to miss a chance to piggyback a character off of the success of diamond and pearl would be pretty unintelligent. whether he chooses Lucario, Munchlax (fan favourites and unofficial mascots of the newer games) or a different pokemon is anyones guess, but i'd hedge my bets on a 4th generation pokemon making it into brawl.

Aren't Pikachu, Charizard, Ivysoar, and Squirtle in Diamond and Pearl too? Or are they unobtainable in that game?

 

[Lupo Aro]

Aren't Pikachu, Charizard, Ivysoar, and Squirtle in Diamond and Pearl too? Or are they unobtainable in that game?

All but Pikachu are unobtainable aside from trading and the GBA games.

 

[Black/Light]

I have a funny feeling Sakurai didnt make Squirtle a seperate character for odvious moveset faults.

. . . No, he wanted to be unique.
Plus, all 3 have complete move-sets (save for Down Bv).

 

[ClarkJables]

yep, they work like zelda/shiek except they are 3 people. kind of like my lost vikings idea i came up with months ago

 

[kaid]

So a fourth gen Pokemon will get added because it would have some kind of synergy with Diamond and Pearl? I suppose that's all possible (worked for Roy) but is it really that likely?

Not just D/P, but the ineviable yellow/crystal/emerald version (probably onyx).

IT hasn't been anounced yet, but it will undoubtibly include 99% of the same pokemon.

 

[blinkd]

i really dont understand why every pokefan and there mother is fraking out over the chance that lucario might be in Brawl, hes not even an important pokemon, is he?

 

[M.K]

i really dont understand why every pokefan and there mother is fraking out over the chance that lucario might be in Brawl, hes not even an important pokemon, is he?

The only reason people go Coocoo for Cocoa-Lucario is because he was one of the first pokemon announced, and thus, was the first to gain stardom. In the months prior to Diamond and Pearl's release, probably 75% of the Pokemon community believed Lucario to be a legendary, due to the fact that his type (Fighting/Steel) was unique, he has his own movie, and he was announced ORIGINALLY as a no-evolution pokemon. Later, when the game was released, Lucario's status was down-graded to "In-game event" pokemon, in which the player receives an egg containing Riolu, the pre-evolution to Lucario, from Riley at Iron Island.

Trust me, if someone like....Lickilicky was announced as early as Lucario was, you would see a huge "ZomG LICkiLiCkY Fuer BROOL!" fandom.

It's nothing more than the first 4th generation pokemon people fell in love with.

It's OU, but w/e, it still gets owned by Fires.

 

[brawlpro]

lucario seems like he can be a good fighter, his figure, no?

thats prolly the reason ppl r cocoo for that dog.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Well at this point Sakurai is putting in some very unique characters into the game. I don't think Lucario can really stand out compared to Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Trainer at this point. (Assuming that is the current 4 from pokemon)

What is there left for him to do? Just plain fighting moves won't cut it at this point. Energy blasts? Mewtwo covered that part already. Fighting styles? Every character can fight already....

Lucario is out of any unique option at this point. He can't offer anything new to us.

 

[Princess Diana]

The only reason people go Coocoo for Cocoa-Lucario is because he was one of the first pokemon announced, and thus, was the first to gain stardom. In the months prior to Diamond and Pearl's release, probably 75% of the Pokemon community believed Lucario to be a legendary, due to the fact that his type (Fighting/Steel) was unique, he has his own movie, and he was announced ORIGINALLY as a no-evolution pokemon. Later, when the game was released, Lucario's status was down-graded to "In-game event" pokemon, in which the player receives an egg containing Riolu, the pre-evolution to Lucario, from Riley at Iron Island.

Trust me, if someone like....Lickilicky was announced as early as Lucario was, you would see a huge "ZomG LICkiLiCkY Fuer BROOL!" fandom.

It's nothing more than the first 4th generation pokemon people fell in love with.

It's OU, but w/e, it still gets owned by Fires.

lucario was never planned to be a legendary pokemon. He doesn't have his move because mewtwo can learn his move and so can a flying piece of blubber

Lucario wasn't down graded because he was never announced to not have a pre-evo they just said "look at this pokemon, its from the fourth gen"

And yeah i do agree that if a pokemon was announced at the same time lucario was this would be the Anti-Lickilicky thread (Pro-Squirtle).

I don't know who in their right mind uses lucario in ou cause he gets owned by earhquake and fighting moves

 

[_the_sandman_]

A lot of characters can give us something new.

Ridley - Heavyweight with extra jumps. Along with claw, tail, and fire attacks
King Dedede- Heavyweight with a mallet, possible extra jumps as well
Ray - Another character with 3 unique projectiles. Projectile heavy characters were low in Melee.
Sonic - Extreme speed (and a possible combo heavy character?)

Those four options already outclass what Lucario can give us. Lucario can't really give us something completely new like Ridley, Dedede, Ray, and Sonic can.

Saying Lucario is a good fighter doesn't really mean much when everyone can fight in this game. Even if he has one or two unique attacks that still isn't enough to compare to the others. Saying he can use a projectile doesn't mean much when you compare him to Ray. Saying he can be a good fighter doesn't mean much when you compare him to Sonic.

Moveset alone, is a great reason to why Lucario doesn't belong in the Smash roster. Just compare him to all of the newcomers so far and you can see what I mean. How can Lucario top off Wario, Pit, and Trainer? He can't....

 

[ylink_underestimted]

well, since u say some characters can give u something new, i'll just say this because i support WW and u dont
WW - light weight with jumpy moves (different from Link). his new projectiles would probably give him a different look from Link (like the new boomerang that could possibly change trajectory up to three times, or the Skull Hammer). if he gets a wind based attack, that could give some uniqueness. thats all i got for now. i'll need to leave for a while again, but i'll be back after i see the update...

 

[kaid]

Trust me, if someone like....Lickilicky was announced as early as Lucario was, you would see a huge "ZomG LICkiLiCkY Fuer BROOL!" fandom.

If that was true, why isn't this the anti-munchlax thread?

 

[ClarkJables]

you think the tp link will use the gail boomerang?

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Very probably. But this isn't the Link thread. This is the Anti-Lucario thread. Only reason I know of him is cause people were all OMG AWSUM for him in a movie recently. I don't like him.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Lucario uses the movie like a crutch in my opinion. Many fans enjoy using the movie as a reason to why Lucario would be in the game, rather than the Pokemon game itself.

I feel like the more worthwhile characters from the actual GAMES are the ones that will make it in.


As for the anti-Munchlax, Lickilicky, Blaziken, etc. I probably wouldn't have made an anti thread on them. A Lickitung type character just seems really unlikely to me, and I would prefer Snorlax over Munchlax but at least its still a character that can be "kind of" recognizable. Blaziken's personality is too stoic for me, but at least he appeared in the 3rd gen.

But anyways Lucario, for some strange reason, exploded on these threads. A lot of people began saying he should be in, and then more people began to follow. This wasn't a classic character like Dedede, or a respectable character from a "newer" franchise like Ray. This was a character that appears in the newest pokemon game that me and my friends had no idea about.

After several weeks of listening about Lucario, and how my opinion didn't matter because I never heard about the guy, I decided to look him up. I watched the movie, went onto some sites, and learned a bit about him. After my research I found out that this character was a "one time only" type of character for the pokemon series. And since he was so new on an old franchise it didn't seem right that he would get the spot on the roster before Squirtle did. After being harassed about Lucario for so long I decided to stick up for the Anti-Lucario Smashers and say something against the guy.

Its one thing to go onto threads about Lucario, WW Link, or various other characters that I don't enjoy, and try to debate with them. But if I go to a pro Lucario thread they will all just bash on me for my opinion. But with my own "Anti" thread the more intense fans will come here and debate about it with me. They'll provide reasons for their arguments, as I will provide reasons to my arguments. That way I can get some more convincing done, rather then having a line of comments about how I'm a "noob".

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

This was a character that appears in the newest pokemon game that me and my friends had no idea about.

Because you guys aren't really Pokemon fans.
Real Pokemon fans love most, if not all Pokemon, and buy almost all the games (except Trozei, which looked really bad).

And since he was so new on an old franchise it didn't seem right that he would get the spot on the roster before Squirtle did.

Now that Squirtle's in Brawl, this is no longer a problem.

That way I can get some more convincing done, rather then having a line of comments about how I'm a "noob".

Noobs are people who can't spell. You rock for having complete sentences, and decent spelling, which is something NO noob has.
However, the Lucario hate is worrying. At least to my Lucario PokeDoll.
Personally, I think it would be awesome, but I really want Meowth in.
Meowth really deserves a spot, if only to acknowledge the strong role the tv show has played in selling games.

Saying Lucario is a good fighter doesn't really mean much when everyone can fight in this game. Even if he has one or two unique attacks that still isn't enough to compare to the others. Saying he can use a projectile doesn't mean much when you compare him to Ray. Saying he can be a good fighter doesn't mean much when you compare him to Sonic.

Moveset alone, is a great reason to why Lucario doesn't belong in the Smash roster. Just compare him to all of the newcomers so far and you can see what I mean. How can Lucario top off Wario, Pit, and Trainer? He can't....

Purely subjective. That's not very classy debating.
At least B/L actually uses concrete facts.

I don't know who in their right mind uses lucario in ou cause he gets owned by earhquake and fighting moves

The metagame is completely irrelevant to inclusion in Brawl.

What is there left for him to do? Just plain fighting moves won't cut it at this point. Energy blasts? Mewtwo covered that part already. Fighting styles? Every character can fight already....

Both?
Lucario would be a mid-heavy, balanced fighter, with both ranged attacks and close combat moves. Decent speed, lousy recovery, and a lot of raw power.
Anyhoo, Lucario would replace Mewtwo.

It seems as if the whole case against Lucario in this thread (though not in others, due to the tireless rants of B/L) is that the 4th generation of Pokemon will not be represented in Brawl at all. From a purely marketing standpoint, this makes no sense. From a fan standpoint, it could seem as if they're ignoring the new stuff just to have a retro feel. So, I find it unlikely that Sakurai would not acknowledge Diamond and Pearl somehow. Besides, they were still working on it in October, when D/P was out in Japan. They easily could have had access to copies of it, and found some good stuff to include. It's the assumption that the 4th generation doesn't matter that really irks me, not the dissing of Lucario. Please, there are better arguments against Lucario than the idiotic Retro school of thought.

 

[_the_sandman_]

This goes to you, pineappleupsetshark.

Well I never got into D+P because I know I would get addicted to it. And with work and school coming back up I wouldn't have much time or a place to play the game. Its unfortunate that Pokemon is looked so down upon, otherwise I would play it, but it probably isn't a good idea to start it when I head back to college. Besides its pretty time consuming, for me at least. I would know, I played all the way up to Ruby.
---------------------------------------
Its not that Lucario would be a bad character in Brawl. I'm sure Sakurai and his staff would be able to make a good moveset for him. But with his options from his game (or movie), he doesn't really stand out when you compare the options that Ray 01 has.
---------------------------------------
And its not that I hate Lucario so much, its just I don't think he deserves to be playable in Brawl just yet. If theres anyone to hate, its the Lucario fans that only like him because others like him, and get angry when I disagree with them. I can't tell you how many times I've come across people that say, "I don't know who Lucario is, but I hope he gets in". If there's anyone to hate, its those types of people that just follow the crowd like that. I can at least respect some Lucario fans that give me a good debate and logical reasoning.
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Lastly, I think its a good idea to only bring retro Pokemon around. It would be weird to me to have a group of retros and one new guy. Pokemon can stay retro, I think it would be better to bring new characters from other franchises. Like Ike for example, bring him and some of his friends into Brawl. That way Sakurai can show that this isn't just a game for the oldies, without mixing up a group in an odd way (To me that is). Same goes for a lot of character groups. I like Midna, I would like to see her with the Zelda group. But my "rule" goes for her as well. She is far too recent to appear as a playable character in Brawl. Keep the original 3 Zelda characters and the roster will be fine.

Again, I think if we need newer characters we should be looking somewhere else. (Custom Robo? Advanced Wars? Golden Sun?)

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Just out of interest, cause I've never actually heard it spoken in English, how do you pronounce it? I always usde to think it was pronounced Lu-sar-ey-o, but then someone pointed out the possible connections to oracles, Anubis and Ancient Egypt, so I dunno if you're supposed to say Lu-ky-rio, sort of like pronouncing Cairo.

 

[GDhunter95]

Gah... Okay

1) Lucario's moveset from the Pokemon games has nothing to do with whether or not they can make him into an interesting character to play. Most of the moves in Pokemon aren't clearly defined anyway...with the exception of Volt Tackle which is actually a referance to Pulseman's Volteccer. Do you really think that the move Rest in the Pokemon games has One hit KO potential...or even does damage for that matter? Food for thought, if Mewtwo returns to Brawl will he keep his Teleport since he can no longer learn it in the games?


2) Lucario being release early has nothing to do with his popularity. Most people have no idea what the pokemon released alongside Lucario actually were. Most of them were from either from the Anime or movies 7-9. The few that weren't were the cover legendaries, the starters, and a few unevolved pokemon that weren't very interesting. Lucario's popularity isn't because he was released early, otherwise Munchlax as the first revealed 4th generation poke would outshine him. It's entirely from the attention he recieved, as the star of the 8th movie, where he was actually a significant character rather then a plot device like most title pokemon in movies end up being.


3) Your contradicting yourself by saying some other series should get all the new characters and then saying some other series should stay retro as well. It also doesn't make for a very solid point because I guarentee you there are probably some fire emblem fans who aren't really happy about Ike and would much prefer more 'retro' characters showing up and would like Pokemon to pick up a more recent character to balance out the fact they have to put up with Ike.


4) The movies, and for that matter the anime, is a large part of Pokemon's popularity and shouldn't be dismissed lightly. Besides Pikachu being Ash's main pokemon and Jigglypuff being a running joke in the first few seasons of the show. A few of the pokeball pokemon, namely Wobbuffet, Togepi, Weezing, and maybe Porygon owe their reputation (or infamy in Porygon's case) to the show. The anime and the movies are also the place where the Pokemon are developed as characters. The main games tend to focus on the human trainers for the most part. Sadly enough the anime is the only place where the pokemon are showcased enough to actually develop something other then, 'Oh, I think Blaziken's cool because it's my highest level pokemon.' and I'm not bashing on Blaziken, but how many people would actually like him more then the other fire starters if it weren't for the anime?


5) It's generally pronounced similar to the way you would pronounce it in Japanese. Lu-Ka-Ri-O. The connection to Oracles is more to do with the fact that Lucario is Oracle spelled backwards in Japanese (O-Ri-Ka-Ru) similar to how you get Olimar (O-Ri-Ma) out of spelling Mario backwards. Edit: Just so no one takes this at face value, that's just what I was told. I'm not sure how accurate it is,

 

[OysterMeister]

I've said it before, the biggest argument against Lucario is that it's unlikely that we'll even GET another new Pokemon character in Brawl.

Poke-trainer took up THREE new pokemon character slots with his three-in-one moveset. We just got THREE new pokemon for Brawl. And here we are now, arguing who'll be the FOURTH new pokemon character?
Quite frankly, I don't think we're going to see another new pokemon character, period.

It's been argued that a fourth pokemon rep from a later generation would help to cash in on the success of the Pokemon franchise, but would it's impact really be that great? Does anyone here seriously believe that either the Pokemon series or the Smash Bros series needs to cash in on the popularity of the other for a sales boost? I honestly think that whatever synergy the two manage to gather from a fourth gen Pokemon rep would be negligible at best.

It's also been said that Lucario could replace Mewtwo. But this too is a weak argument. A fourth new character is STILL a fourth new character, whether or not some other character makes the cut. The effort it would take to import and balance Mewtwo is less than the effort it would take to create a new character such as Lucario, so having the dog in shorts replace someone would still not free up enough development time to warrent his (or ANY new pokemon's) inclusion.

Besides, assuming Pichu is cut for being a clone, and Jiggs and Mewtwo return as veteran fighter, we'll have SIX fully playable pokemon movesets on our hands. That's more than any series in Melee got. Isn't six enough?

 

[Circus]

Poke-trainer took up THREE new pokemon character slots with his three-in-one moveset.

I'm going to ignore most of your post because I'm just so tired of talking about this whole issue, but I feel the need to point this one thing out.

No, he doesn't take up three slots. In fact, it seems like one of the big reasons the pokemon trainer is even incorporated is so that Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle take up one slot. Yes, it took time to make almost 3 complete characters, but they're all literally taking up the same character slot.

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

**** straight it is. That's why I'm going to hazard a random guess that either Jiggs or M2 will be cut, and there'll be no replacement. Which one will go? That I can't guess easily.

 

[Link31]

So what if you don't want Lucario in the game? Is it going to hurt you if he gets put in?

 

[_the_sandman_]

Gah... Okay

1) Lucario's moveset from the Pokemon games has nothing to do with whether or not they can make him into an interesting character to play. Most of the moves in Pokemon aren't clearly defined anyway...with the exception of Volt Tackle which is actually a referance to Pulseman's Volteccer. Do you really think that the move Rest in the Pokemon games has One hit KO potential...or even does damage for that matter? Food for thought, if Mewtwo returns to Brawl will he keep his Teleport since he can no longer learn it in the games?


2) Lucario being release early has nothing to do with his popularity. Most people have no idea what the pokemon released alongside Lucario actually were. Most of them were from either from the Anime or movies 7-9. The few that weren't were the cover legendaries, the starters, and a few unevolved pokemon that weren't very interesting. Lucario's popularity isn't because he was released early, otherwise Munchlax as the first revealed 4th generation poke would outshine him. It's entirely from the attention he recieved, as the star of the 8th movie, where he was actually a significant character rather then a plot device like most title pokemon in movies end up being.


3) Your contradicting yourself by saying some other series should get all the new characters and then saying some other series should stay retro as well. It also doesn't make for a very solid point because I guarentee you there are probably some fire emblem fans who aren't really happy about Ike and would much prefer more 'retro' characters showing up and would like Pokemon to pick up a more recent character to balance out the fact they have to put up with Ike.


4) The movies, and for that matter the anime, is a large part of Pokemon's popularity and shouldn't be dismissed lightly. Besides Pikachu being Ash's main pokemon and Jigglypuff being a running joke in the first few seasons of the show. A few of the pokeball pokemon, namely Wobbuffet, Togepi, Weezing, and maybe Porygon owe their reputation (or infamy in Porygon's case) to the show. The anime and the movies are also the place where the Pokemon are developed as characters. The main games tend to focus on the human trainers for the most part. Sadly enough the anime is the only place where the pokemon are showcased enough to actually develop something other then, 'Oh, I think Blaziken's cool because it's my highest level pokemon.' and I'm not bashing on Blaziken, but how many people would actually like him more then the other fire starters if it weren't for the anime?


5) It's generally pronounced similar to the way you would pronounce it in Japanese. Lu-Ka-Ri-O. The connection to Oracles is more to do with the fact that Lucario is Oracle spelled backwards in Japanese (O-Ri-Ka-Ru) similar to how you get Olimar (O-Ri-Ma) out of spelling Mario backwards. Edit: Just so no one takes this at face value, that's just what I was told. I'm not sure how accurate it is,

1.) Well movesets are supposed to be interesting, not to mention that many attacks for certain characters come from their games. Pikachu - Thunder bolt, Thunder, Quick Attack, and Skull Bash. Jiggs- Pound, Sing, Rest, and Rollout. Mewtwo - Shadow Ball, Disable, Teleport, and Confusion.

Movesets for all characters in general should be interesting and unique.

2.) This is about the greatest game characters, not movie characters. Quit using the movie as a crutch for Lucario. You don't realize how much the reference to the movie hurts him for your cause.

3.) Pokemon was popular back in the "retro" days. Keep the originals for series like Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, and Kirby. Other series can have newer characters from Fire Emblem, Custom Robo, Golden Sun, Advance Wars, and Pikmin. Pokemon doesn't really recycle characters, they are always changing. So just stick with the originals who ARE the most recognizable.

4.) Again, the movies are just a crutch. Don't rely on them.

5.) What is this all about? Does this have anything to do with the game? You might as well remove Ganondorf from the game because nobody can spell his name right.

 

[ClarkJables]

also, if the 4th gen needs so much rep, then why does it have to be lucario. i know mime jr., munchlax, and weaville would be excellent additions with good chances, fanbases, and they are all 4th gen

 

[Nergal]

1.) Well movesets are supposed to be interesting, not to mention that many attacks for certain characters come from their games. Pikachu - Thunder bolt, Thunder, Quick Attack, and Skull Bash. Jiggs- Pound, Sing, Rest, and Rollout. Mewtwo - Shadow Ball, Disable, Teleport, and Confusion.

Movesets for all characters in general should be interesting and unique.

2.) This is about the greatest game characters, not movie characters. Quit using the movie as a crutch for Lucario. You don't realize how much the reference to the movie hurts him for your cause.

3.) Pokemon was popular back in the "retro" days. Keep the originals for series like Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, and Kirby. Other series can have newer characters from Fire Emblem, Custom Robo, Golden Sun, Advance Wars, and Pikmin. Pokemon doesn't really recycle characters, they are always changing. So just stick with the originals who ARE the most recognizable.

4.) Again, the movies are just a crutch. Don't rely on them.

5.) What is this all about? Does this have anything to do with the game? You might as well remove Ganondorf from the game because nobody can spell his name right.

You're basically saying that pokemon shouldn't have 4th gen reps because "people don't recognize them". When the original Smash came out, many of the characters weren't recognized by eveyone. Did it affect the quality? No. Even today, new characters are being added from new series. Does everyone play Metroid? No. Does everyone know Zamus, Ike, or Pit? No. They still have slots in the game. Nintendo seeks to please all of it's fans, which includes pokemon. By your logic, nearly everybody recognizes Lucario due to how much D/P is selling. "Retro" fans aen't the only people playing the game, & chances are, they still play if they're big fans. Pokemon is still huge, It's just not MTV huge.

 

[Link31]

also, if the 4th gen needs so much rep, then why does it have to be lucario. i know mime jr., munchlax, and weaville would be excellent additions with good chances, fanbases, and they are all 4th gen

Lucario is the best fit. He's also more popular than those.