The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[_the_sandman_]

Stryks....

So you hate me because I have my own opinions? Because I sound confident in my opinions so much that it sounds like the real deal? Well I can't help it if I support some of the better characters like Ridley or King Dedede. I also can't help it when I realize WW Link or any other additional Zelda character shouldn't be in Brawl because the main 3 are enough.

I mean, no wonder why you support Lucario. You can't defend yourself as easlily unless its over a character that most of the boards agree on. I can't help it if you aren't confident to stand up for your beliefs. I also can't help it if you're too egotistical to learn new things about characters.

I USED to be a supporter for Bowser Jr and Wolf. But after analyzing all of the other possible factors I realized that there are better characters out there like Petey and Slippy. I can't help it if that's my opinion because I listened and looked into every possible character.

Even then, my banner here will show you who I support the most. Squirtle was one of them but no one made a banner of him yet.

Edit: Also I keep 5 on at a time, but Ice Climbers and Mewtwo are on the list as well.

 

[GDhunter95]

In my opinion, in order to be playale in Smash Bros, a character needs these four things.
1. Fame
2. Popularity
3. To have enough abilities for a decent moveset
4. To be unique.

Nah....

1: Fame isn't particularly necessary. Not many people knew about Mother, Fire Emblem, Ice Climbers, and Game and Watch before they picked up Smash Brothers. It helps when people recognize a character, but does it justify putting one character in over another? I'm sure more people have heard of Daisy or Walauigi then Takamaru or Sukapon.

2: Sakurai's got this thing for interesting characters rather then popular characters. So I hardly think this is important either.

3: How did Captain Falcon, The Fire Emblem Characters, Pit, and many other fit this bill? The developes made moves for them.

4: Being a Unique fighter has nothing to do with the character. If they wanted to, they could have created a triple tag team out of another series rather then Pokemon. Shadow Sirens from Thousand year door, the other members of team star fox, generic badies from whatever game, Those three heroes that are always together in that fire emblem game (Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector I think.) Being a unique character would be like Wario who is probably the only consistant anti-hero in all of Nintendo's major Franchises.

Ok tell me of ANY 3rd gen pokemon with a body structure and height of a fighter, with the popularity and all to be in brawl? only gardevior has a chance cause the **** like her... theyre arent many pokemon on the nwer gens that have the brawl status, if anything groundon and deoxys are a sig...

While unlikely, Blaziken is still a massively popular 3rd gen poke.

I also happen to think Slaking and Ludicolo might work and I think they're cool. but serriously why does it need to have a body structure and height of a fighter? Ivysaur, Pikachu, and Jigglypuff are as far as you can get from that and they made it in.

 

[Stryks]

... WHAT?!

Im supporting this character CAUSE UR SAYING BS CRAP ABOUT HIM, one thing is:"I believe lucario wont be in cause we already have 2 1st gens, thus with maybe mewtwo retuning, it's maybe some sort of sign that only 1st gens will be playable..."
That was opinion, something I wouldnt flame since it was 100% opinion, now heres urs:

"Lucario wont be in cause sakurai will only add 1st gens, because they were more popular and besides no one knows lucario only on these boards at least"

Thats just making stuff up, ur saying things like their facts, which they arent, better explain stuff and dont go off saying SSBB = Anti lucario!!

theres NO proof that 4th gen, or more directly, lucario wont be a PC, not until sakurai shows us himself, until then were entitled to our opinions, but dont go off saying stuff like:

Bowser jr and daisy are losers and filler, lets add petey!
Wolf is too similair to fox and will end up a fox clone...
Lucario wont be in cause only 1st gens will be PCs...

thats just making stuff up, and is the main reason I come back every time, cause u KEEP making stuff up, and say things like "Sorry stryks I prove u wrong again" which u havent, u just keep making up one thing over the other, IDK why, maybe u just want me to surrender, but I never do, not until we get things stright:

U AINT SAKURAI
U DONT HAVE PROOF OF LUCARIO NOT BEING A PC
AND YOU DONT HAVE PROOF THAT ONELY 1ST GENS WIL L B PCS

now ur saying I dont stand up for what I belive, and I ask u: wtf?! I believe lucario has a chance, I see the facts and his odds against other pkmn are good, not great, but good enough never the less, I believe bowser jr is more important than petey, being bowsers son and having more major roles than petey... and also that is FACT, not something I made up, its fact that why I believe in it...

I believe only fox, krystal, falco (with new moveset) and wolf will be added, cause we'll have the hero, side kick, love interest and villain, something most of the other series have, like zelda and mario series...

Now if its an opinion, then say it like one, DONT say: LUCARIO WONT BE IN ONLY 1ST GEN, cause thats not an opinion, thats saying stuff LIKE IT IS...

 

[_the_sandman_]

Nah....

1: Fame isn't particularly necessary. Not many people knew about Mother, Fire Emblem, Ice Climbers, and Game and Watch before they picked up Smash Brothers. It helps when people recognize a character, but does it justify putting one character in over another? I'm sure more people have heard of Daisy or Walauigi then Takamaru or Sukapon.

2: Sakurai's got this thing for interesting characters rather then popular characters. So I hardly think this is important either.

3: How did Captain Falcon, The Fire Emblem Characters, Pit, and many other fit this bill? The developes made moves for them.

4: Being a Unique fighter has nothing to do with the character. If they wanted to, they could have created a triple tag team out of another series rather then Pokemon. Shadow Sirens from Thousand year door, the other members of team star fox, generic badies from whatever game, Those three heroes that are always together in that fire emblem game (Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector I think.) Being a unique character would be like Wario who is probably the only consistant anti-hero in all of Nintendo's major Franchises.

Those are some excellent points there. I guess that defeats my 4 things needed to be a character theory.

Though at the "time" they first appeared games like Ice Climber and Game and Watch were popular. Those two I mentioned even appeared in various other games over time as well.

As for movesets characters like Fox and Captain Falcon obviously have nothing to work with. But characters like Peach and Mewtwo have games to work with for their styles and attacks.

Anywho, you proved your point. The 4 Things Theory doesn't work for everyone I guess. But I still hope that every character is drastically unique from the other in Brawl. I'm sure everyone else feels the same.

 

[brawlpro]

just wait and see ya'll, aim for this conversation sandman and stryks if you guyz are gonna continue speaking and debating one on one, this conversation is whack yo...ain't no body goin have nuff time to read all this ya'll be postin...

 

[_the_sandman_]

Very true, lets get back to the main topic! Seriously!

So who thinks Lucarios still has a shot being a playable character? And it would help if you gave a reason to that question.

Or...

Why is Lucario not going to have a chance anymore? You guys know where I stand, but what about the rest of you?



Edit: Well I'm going to call it a night. You guys can discuss this some more without me. I don't know when I'll return to this actually since the past two days have been a bit brutal somehow. I need a break!

 

[brawlpro]

lucario needs to be in, a taller version of fox(somehow fox came to my mind)

EDIT: well i got school tomorrow and my neck is killin me, i better go...

 

[ClarkJables]

he doesn't NEED to be in brawlpro, in fact i want him as far away from brawl as possible

 

[brawlpro]

dude, it was a freakin figure of speech...dayamn...it means i really want lucario to be in"clark"...pce outz you all(ya'll)

 

[PyrasTerran]

I would be disappointed if there isn't a representative for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation monsters. It'd be a step BACKWARDS after having Pichu, a 2nd Gen monster.

I do not believe in the "pokemon can't have more reps than mario" rule. There are so many famous and popular candidates in pokemon than there is in mario-verse, and there is nothing that proves this rule.

PT is both a blessing and a curse to pro-1st gen-only people, because the sheer randomness of having the character playable in the first place proves that nothing is truely out of bounds in the world of Nintendo.

 

[ylink_underestimted]

Stryks, i think you might be obsessing on sandman too much. I mean you practically wrote a two paged essay on something that isnt even for school. I dont think Lucario had much of a chance as deoxys had. Sandman had made some good points. You made good points as well but an essay? thats a little over the top.

well DarkKry, when people debate here, its because they try to prove something. well maybe i shouldnt say prove, but for now i'll just say that people debate in order to support what they think a logical choice is. Stryks made an "essay" if u will, to state his reasons for his opinion on the logical choice, or however u say it, because sand_man doesnt agree with him.

just wait and see ya'll, aim for this conversation sandman and stryks if you guyz are gonna continue speaking and debating one on one, this conversation is whack yo...ain't no body goin have nuff time to read all this ya'll be postin...

wut r u getting at?

well all ive got to say to sand_man is that:
the Smash Bros series is a commercial to promote Nintendo's games, right? well, if only the 1st gen of Pokemon were to be represented, then what does that do to the latest games of Pokemon? yea ok, Sakurai can pokeball them, but im pretty sure the majority of Smash players dont like to use items. because of that, one of the only ways the other gens of Pokemon would be seen is in Single Player mode (unless if in Brawl u can control the items; which makes it worse for the other gens). the gens that would have the most problem IMO would be the 3rd and 2nd. the 3rd and 2nd gens would only be repped in Pokeballs because if there were to be 5 PC spots for Pokemon the gens most likely to be repped there are 1st and 4th. the 1st is already repped by Pikachu and PT (along with the 3 pokemon he holds). if Jigglypuff and Mewtwo (who have high chances due to being veterans) return, then that would already take up 4 spots. since Smash is a commercial game, the 4th gen has to be repped in some way to promote the latest Pokemon games. a choice (and also my personal) would be Lucario. y Lucario?
1.because since Lucario was one of the first Pokemon shown in the 4th gen, thats one way of sayng he can rep the 4th gen.
2. he has popularity in Japan and amongst pokemon fans world wide
3. his Fighting/Steel type could be unique for Brawl, along with his stats for being speedy
4. the over-used one: he was in a movie with Mew (how does that make him unimportant?)
5. the apparently main reason for Pokemon and other characters to be in Brawl: his looks (IMO he looks cool and stupid at the same time)

well, there u have it sand_man. my reasons for Lucario being in Brawl. oh wait, how come u keep saying that Stryks keeps saying Squirtle isnt playable? i have yet to read he said that...

 

[kaid]

My support for Lucario comes in two stages. The (misplaced) effort put into Pichu (he hurts himself) shows Sakurai payed attention to representing what was the newest generation of pokemon. Now the newest generation is the 4th gen, and I believe there will be exactly 1 4th gen rep.

Out of the 4th gen possibilities I've seen, I feel Lucario has a broader support base and/or more "brawl potential" (imo) than the other contenders.

 

[ClarkJables]

well munchlax was the first 4th gen revealed, has a massive japanese following, was in the same movie with lucario, and is considered by most to be the mascot of 4th gen pokemon. also i think that although fighting is a nice type, almost every other type in the game has more posibilities for a unique moveset

 

[Dizzynecro]

who says smash is just to advertise they're games? then why add pit and ice climbers?

 

[PyrasTerran]

who says smash is just to advertise they're games?

Roy, to a degree.

 

[Princess Diana]

well munchlax was the first 4th gen revealed, has a massive japanese following, was in the same movie with lucario, and is considered by most to be the mascot of 4th gen pokemon. also i think that although fighting is a nice type, almost every other type in the game has more posibilities for a unique moveset

Munchlax wasn't in the same movie as lucario... May hadn't even captured him at that time... Weavile, Bonsly, and Mime Jr. were in that movie

 

[kaid]

Munchlax wasn't in the same movie as lucario... May hadn't even captured him at that time... Weavile, Bonsly, and Mime Jr. were in that movie

That's actually not true. If you want, I can screenshot Munch in the Lucario movie. He had a minor role, though, so it's understandable that you missed him.

 

[Princess Diana]

That's actually not true. If you want, I can screenshot Munch in the Lucario movie. He had a minor role, though, so it's understandable that you missed him.

Oh? Please show me this screen shot then...

 

[GDhunter95]

Oh? Please show me this screen shot then...

http://www.serebii.net/movies/mew/pics.shtml

You can see one standing by Max in like the 20th picture. I'm preatty sure he shows up later in the movie too, but can't be bothered to actually find it right now.

 

[Princess Diana]

http://www.serebii.net/movies/mew/pics.shtml

You can see one standing by May in like the 20th picture. I'm preatty sure he shows up later in the movie too, but can't be bothered to actually find it right now.

Oooooooh yeah.... lol... He was the one that made max go into the room with mew and them... and then he got frozen... lulz

 

[Yukiwarashi]

May owned Munchlax by the time the eighth movie premeired. He wasn't a cameo, he was actually one of her Pokemon.

 

[kaid]

Shot at 2007-08-14

 

[Princess Diana]

Yeah I was mistaken... I was thinking of the Deoxys movie... There was a munchlax in that one though... He was a wild one though...

 

[ClarkJables]

hey its squirtle, whats he doing there

 

[ylink_underestimted]

well munchlax was the first 4th gen revealed, has a massive japanese following, was in the same movie with lucario, and is considered by most to be the mascot of 4th gen pokemon. also i think that although fighting is a nice type, almost every other type in the game has more posibilities for a unique moveset

thats a good point. actually, i havent seen the whole movie, only like wut 5mins? but even so, the movie isnt call Munchlax and the Mystery of Mew. Lucario was one of the main Pokemon in that movie (unless Munchlax did something really important in the movie i missed).
of course other types could be unique, but the Fighting type is almost like a classic way for him to get in (or however u say it), because Smash is about trophies that like to fight. now im not saying that all the fighting pokemon could be in the game (although maybe they could haha), but it was just a backup reason for him to rep the $th gen.

who says smash is just to advertise they're games? then why add pit and ice climbers?

well not really advertise, just to kind of show theyre there. and y add Pit and ICs? maybe because Sakurai likes retros nd he wants people to somehow play the old games?(Wii can do that right?)

 

[Princess Diana]

hey its squirtle, whats he doing there

May got this random squirtle from proffesor oak... I never liked him... He was so annoying and he won too many battles...

 

[ClarkJables]

of course other types could be unique, but the Fighting type is almost like a classic way for him to get in (or however u say it), because Smash is about trophies that like to fight. now im not saying that all the fighting pokemon could be in the game (although maybe they could haha), but it was just a backup reason for him to rep the $th gen.

well the thing with fighting is that it is good for translation into smash but it is boring when compared to other types. i mean sure you can punch, kick, and use that hyper beam thingy, but there are tons of other types out there that would be amazing in smash bros. i think sakurai is taking notice of that by putting a grass, water, and fire type in there. with them and pika for electric, jiggs for normal, and M2 for physic types, i would like to see a dark type like weavile (have no idea how to spell his name and 8 people will post his name after i post this anyway to show off their pokemon prowess)

 

[ylink_underestimted]

well the thing with fighting is that it is good for translation into smash but it is boring when compared to other types. i mean sure you can punch, kick, and use that hyper beam thingy, but there are tons of other types out there that would be amazing in smash bros. i think sakurai is taking notice of that by putting a grass, water, and fire type in there. with them and pika for electric, jiggs for normal, and M2 for physic types, i would like to see a dark type like weavile (have no idea how to spell his name and 8 people will post his name after i post this anyway to show off their pokemon prowess)

yea i thot some people would say the Fighting type would be boring. i cant believe im gonna do this but, wut about his steel type? i read this thing about him anywayz http://www.serebii.net/potw-dp/448.shtml

 

[Princess Diana]

yea i thot some people would say the Fighting type would be boring. i cant believe im gonna do this but, wut about his steel type? i read this thing about him anywayz http://www.serebii.net/potw-dp/448.shtml

ugh... Don't go to serebii.net for movesets... they suck in that department... >_>;

 

[ClarkJables]

steel type is.... complex. almost to complex to make sense

 

[kaid]

Steel type gets the laser cannon move.

 

[Black/Light]

Steel type gets the laser cannon move.

. . .What might be so different about said move?

 

[ylink_underestimted]

ugh... Don't go to serebii.net for movesets... they suck in that department... >_>;

im pretty sure the movesets were there for the Pokemon games, not for Smash. i go there for info.

anywayz, i brought up Steel cuz that might do something useful if he was in Brawl. i dont think itll have too much effect. unless Sakurai does something crazy again.

 

[Black/Light]

OOOhhh, I think Kaid is talking about flash canon. . . .It's the only canon steel attack I see for Lucario on serebii.

 

[kaid]

. . .What might be so different about said move?

Like samus's FS, but without the Zero-suit bit? It's a beam of light powerful enough to deal damage.

 

[ylink_underestimted]

it would look like her FS? hmm. if it was toned down, i could see it as a >B, but as a FS, i dont know

 

[Princess Diana]

im pretty sure the movesets were there for the Pokemon games, not for Smash. i go there for info.

anywayz, i brought up Steel cuz that might do something useful if he was in Brawl. i dont think itll have too much effect. unless Sakurai does something crazy again.

I was refferring to the fact that they suck for movesets FOR the pokemon games... >_>;

Most of the steel type moves are stupid... You make your hand metal or something and smack someone with it...

Lol Bronzong's flash cannon comes from his anal crevices...

 

[Dizzynecro]

well not really advertise, just to kind of show theyre there. and y add Pit and ICs? maybe because Sakurai likes retros nd he wants people to somehow play the old games?(Wii can do that right?)

i wasn't really saying why add them i was saying why add them in context to advertizing but yea i know he likes retro characters. I was just making a point.

 

[dynamic_entry]

well the thing with fighting is that it is good for translation into smash but it is boring when compared to other types. i mean sure you can punch, kick, and use that hyper beam thingy, but there are tons of other types out there that would be amazing in smash bros. i think sakurai is taking notice of that by putting a grass, water, and fire type in there. with them and pika for electric, jiggs for normal, and M2 for physic types, i would like to see a dark type like weavile (have no idea how to spell his name and 8 people will post his name after i post this anyway to show off their pokemon prowess)

it doesnt matter that fighting type isnt as great on paper as some other types, lucario's moveset is in no way restricted to punch kick punch. hes called the aura pokemon, and learns both dragon pulse and aura sphere (two cool ranged moves, even though aura sphere is fighting). hyper beam is a normal type move also. also, seeing as how mewtwo's neutral b move was shadow ball in melee ( a TM move) it shows sakurai doesnt mind giving the pokemon in SSB moves that they dont learn by level up. this increases the amount of ranged moves lucario can choose from, all from varying types, like water pulse and dark pulse, aswell as shadow ball like mewtwo.

for a full list of his moves go here:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/448.shtml

lucario has an awesome moveset.

also, serebii.net ftw!

edit: haha, just read what ylink underestimated posted on previous page.

also, i like serebii, but i make my own movesets.

 

[_Slick_]

Um, yah first post in this topic so I'll post my opinion.

Squirtle is now playable BTW.

Lucario was in the movie. Your saying so what. HE WAS ONE OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS IN THE MOVIE!!!

Lucario won't have a good moveset? Huh? What the hell? I know I can't make a moveset but I also know that Lucario has many moves that could be implemented in Brawl.
ALSO, Lucario can learn Bone Rush, the only Pokemon that can learn it apart from Cubone and Marowak (and Smeargle via Sketch).

Lucario is also used by the Champion and a Gym Leader in D/P as well as Riley.

Lucario is also mentioned in Mystery Dungeon, being the rank you get when you get 15000 points (the highest).

The Pokemon in SSB can't be stuck in the R/G/B/Y past. Pichu was the 2nd Gen representative.

So there are many reasons Lucario can be the 4th Gen representative if not accompanied by more 4th Gen Pokemon.

Anyway, Squirtle will be awesome. :3