Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[Skrah]

Selda? **** that's worse than people saying that Link was Zelda. And haven't played OoT in some time. /johns

 

[Vorguen]

Oh gosh, I used to hate so bad people calling Link "Zelda"

 

[shlike]

You Mean The Guy With The Master Saber Isnt Selda?

Wtf

 

[Spire]

I salute you, Skyler, and Scott, for holding up the truth. As to all you naysayers, there is a timeline, and it's official. Halloween Captain, I cannot fathom why you would even consider debunking the timeline when both Miyamoto and Aonuma have officially slated its existence. That's just utterly ridiculous. Believe what you may, but do not dismiss official statements, rather, incorporate them into your ideas concerning the existence of a timeline.

Here, read this interview with Aonuma (the most recent regarding the still-existing timeline):

Ocarina of Time - Twilight Princess & Wind Waker Timeline Interview with Aonuma

I understand that it's easy to dismiss the existence of a timeline (or rather parallel timelines), and adopt the idea that it is one legend reiterated as time progresses in different forms (and without the official statement of the timeline, this is entirely true), but as I just said, there is an official timeline. Do not oppose it. Time = History, and history = a way to tie together characters, places, events, artifacts, and all things that comprise the Zeldaverse. Establishing a timeline upheaves the series to a semi-scholarly level, allowing those willing to study it a means of "connecting the dots" and figuring out the concepts behind the creation of each game. I've studied the timeline a lot, and have learned so much from it (regardless of whether or not my thoughts are parallel with those of Miyamoto and Aonuma).

So please, from this point on, accept the timeline and use it to your advantage to further analyze one of the greatest video game sagas of all time.

Thank you all,
Spire

 

[Vorguen]

The existence of the timeline is myth... MYTH!!!!!!

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Right Aaaaaaaaaaaaay Down Right Aaaaaaaaaaaaay Down

 

[Vorguen]

Song of Storms > Song of Time !!!

Sorry Buzzsaw.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Nope.

Right Aaaaaay Down Right Aaaaaay Down > Ay Down Uuuuuup Ay Down Uuuuuup

 

[Spire]

Would you guys like to stop spamming and respond to more important matters, like perhaps, the timeline issue?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Would you guys like to stop spamming and respond to more important matters, like perhaps, the timeline issue?

I hate timeline discussions, to be honest. They are so fruitless and boring.

And I am the authority on spam here. >_>

 

[Vorguen]

The timeline is a myth!!!

Saria's Song = Song of Storms > Song of Time > Zelda's Lullaby > Bolero of Fire > Epona's Song > E-mail > Sailor Moon > The new Dragonball movie > Ventriloquists > Abortion > My Chemical Romance > Cancer > Satan > the timeline issue

 

[Undrdog]

Indeed he is.

I used to be a big Zelda Timeline / Tetraforce theory nerd. But I don't want to invoke the wrath of, "THE SAW"! ^_^

BTW Buzz my sig stopped showing up. What's up with that? :<

 

[Spire]

I hate timeline discussions, to be honest. They are so fruitless and boring.

And I am the authority on spam here. >_>

So you're a hypocrite - a spammer who may mark others with infractions for spam? Your word on what is spam is as good as mine. The difference being that you have the power to mark it accordingly. I don't want to burn bridges, but this thread has had a sudden insurgence of spam, spam, spam, and it has not helped the progression of intellectual discussion involving The Legend of Zelda.

However, I won't hold you to your opinion on timeline discussion, because yours is entirely valid as anyone else's is - in discussing the actual subject matter, validity is moot - but it does serve as a basis for in-depth, concept-based discussion, working out the relations between the elements that comprise the games to further one's understanding of not only the games in general, but the infrastructure of the games, breaking down the geographical, characteristic, and historical spectrums to advance the artistic viewing of the series.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Indeed he is.

I used to be a big Zelda Timeline / Tetraforce theory nerd. But I don't want to invoke the wrath of, "THE SAW"! ^_^

LOL! I won't give infractions for discussing timeline. I'll just... change the subject. ^_^;;

@Spire -- I haven't done anything to derail the topic. I just steered away from timeline discussion, but that was rude of me. You guys can discuss timeline if you want.

 

[Skrah]

Nooo.. Timeline is boring, and as Vorguen said, a myth.

I'd rather discuss CD-i than timeline. Yes I said it.

Anyways, since all of you guys want a "serious" discussion, do you think the next game should have a Navi-like help AI?

 

[Spire]

LOL! I won't give infractions for discussing timeline. I'll just... change the subject. ^_^;;

@Spire -- I haven't done anything to derail the topic. I just steered away from timeline discussion, but that was rude of me. You guys can discuss timeline if you want.

It's fine, I hold nothing against you I'm simply naturally inclined to analyze pretty much everything from an artistic standpoint, and Zelda has been my most revisited victim to date. I've never had the pleasure of critiquing anything as much as I have had with Zelda, so I wanted to unify all of us under that wing, looking into the game series as more than games, because frankly, they are. Physically, they may be games, but conceptually they are so much more.

Nooo.. Timeline is boring, and as Vorguen said, a myth.

I'd rather discuss CD-i than timeline. Yes I said it.

Anyways, since all of you guys want a "serious" discussion, do you think the next game should have a Navi-like help AI?

I suppose you did not read my large post on the bottom of the last page, or have chosen to ignore it. Vorguen is wrong, the timeline is not a myth, it's official. IT'S REAL. Learn to accept the truth.

 

[Skrah]

I read it all right, my point is, don't get all hyped up about it. They said in 99 that OoT was to be the first Zelda game in this so called timeline, but then they release Minish Cap, which with all the evidence supports that MM is the first. Contradictions, my boy.

Also there are faults in the timeline, so there's no real reason to accept it until it the games follow each other flawlessly

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

A lack of timeline is a path to artistic freedom. Why bother maintaining a timeline when you can just make each Zelda game how you want?

 

[Spire]

I read it all right, my point is, don't get all hyped up about it. They said in 99 that OoT was to be the first Zelda game in this so called timeline, but then they release Minish Cap, which with all the evidence supports that MM is the first. Contradictions, my boy.

Also there are faults in the timeline, so there's no real reason to accept it until it the games follow each other flawlessly

Keep in mind that neither OoS, OoA, FS, FSA, or MC have ever been included in any known timeline interviews (to my knowledge, neither has PH, but it doesn't necessarily need to, seeing as how it's a direct sequel to WW, which definitely has). Prove me wrong, please. The lastest timeline interview (that I posted) talks about OoT, TP, and WW, and mind you, it took place after both MC and TP were released. Capcom/Flasgship games ≠ definite canon.

Oracle of Seasons - Capcom
Oracle of Ages - Capcom
Four Swords - Flagship (Nintendo/Capcom/Sega)
Four Swords Adventures - Nintendo; [probably canon]
The Minish Cap - Flagship

It doesn't matter if the timeline is currently murky, because it exists, so we have every right to examine it. Why put something aside due to incomplete evidence? We certainly have plenty of evidence with a few loopholes here and there, to which we can actually use to our advantage by careful alignment.

A lack of timeline is a path to artistic freedom. Why bother maintaining a timeline when you can just make each Zelda game how you want?

The beautiful thing about the series is that they do not design the games to follow the timeline (particularly in the foundation stages). They design the games to work as independently functioning titles, relying not on any one other to understand all of the information available in said game. Miyamoto and Aonuma have a "Master Document" that details the truth behind the entire series. Here's proof:

2003 Interview with Miyamoto
2007 Video Interview with Aonuma

This "Master Document" supposedly tells how each game fits into the series, along whatever type of timeline configured thus far.

Originally posted by Wikipedia
According to this interview, development of a Zelda title can commence without the team knowing in advance where exactly the title will fit into the timeline; but by the time the title is finished, its placement in the timeline will be determined.

 

[Skrah]

That's what I'm talking about, you start making up things or making connections that aren't there and then in an interview it is proved wrong. Also, Zelda games being made by Capcom or other companies doesn't necessarily mean that their not supposed to be in the timeline. Its like saying that their not "true" Zelda games. CD-i is another thing.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to figure the timeline out, just don't try making me or Buzz or any other guy to believe in the timeline.

 

[SkylerOcon]

If you don't believe in the timeline, you're ****ing ********.

Miyamoto and Aonuma have acknowledge the existence of the timeline MULTIPLE times.

 

[Skrah]

Wow, we resort to name calling now?

First Spire said he wanted intelligent discussion, I opposed this stupid timeline, and you go batsh*t insane?

Pretty cool thread huh? I actually tried to discuss about other things about the timeline, which IMO is way overrated when there is no SOLID followings of the story.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If you don't believe in the timeline, you're ****ing ********.

Miyamoto and Aonuma have acknowledge the existence of the timeline MULTIPLE times.

Yeah, but they haven't determined exacts about it.

They basically say when a game relatively happens compared to eachother. (Example "Sometime after Ocarina of time")

Thus, there really isn't that much of a timeline created, just one that at least exists.

 

[Spire]

That's what I'm talking about, you start making up things or making connections that aren't there and then in an interview it is proved wrong. Also, Zelda games being made by Capcom or other companies doesn't necessarily mean that their not supposed to be in the timeline. Its like saying that their not "true" Zelda games. CD-i is another thing.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to figure the timeline out, just don't try making me or Buzz or any other guy to believe in the timeline.

That's analogous with debunking all known "facts" about, oh, let's say... Black Holes. We know some things, and assume others. Eventually, we may discover truths that prove wrong our assumptions, but it's those assumptions that lead to the discoveries of these truths, despite the clashing nature of the two.

I'm not trying to press my beliefs on you, Buzz, or anyone at all, but I don't think it wise to deny the existence of fact over assumption. Do what you will.

 

[Skrah]

I accept that MM follows directly from OoT and that PH follows directly from WW and that Zelda follows up to Zelda 2, but there are too many holes for the timeline as a whole to be a "fact". I'm actually leaning more to what some guy said about the legend retold. Anyways, I never thought stupid arguments that usually come in religious things to happen here. Oh well lol

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I accept that MM follows directly from OoT and that PH follows directly from WW and that Zelda follows up to Zelda 2, but there are too many holes for the timeline as a whole to be a "fact". I'm actually leaning more to what some guy said about the legend retold. Anyways, I never thought stupid arguments that usually come in religious things to happen here. Oh well lol

People think that Link's Awakening fallows A link to the Past...

 

[Spire]

People think that Link's Awakening fallows A link to the Past...

Well, Link's Awakening was created as a direct sequel to A Link to the Past, so why accuse those who think so to be wrong? I'd like to hear your logic on the matter.

However, when playing the linked version of OoS/A, after completing one game and moving to the other, Link is seen sailing on a boat that looks identical to that featured in the intro to Link's Awakening. On top of that, upon being re-released for the GBA, A Link to the Past was updated with the artistic style introduced with the Oracle games, so that may relate them further, indicating that perhaps this arc of the timeline is read as ALttP - OoS[A] - LA - OoA. It is known that Ganon had been defeated prior to the events of OoA/S and LA, respectively, so there's a good chance that they are all linked.

I thoroughly enjoy working out these connections between the game. I'll probably love the next game even more if it totally debunks all that I've thought out so far, because it'll show that the developers have created something totally unexpected (at least by myself).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, Link's Awakening was created as a direct sequel to A Link to the Past, so why accuse those who think so to be wrong? I'd like to hear your logic on the matter.

However, when playing the linked version of OoS/A, after completing one game and moving to the other, Link is seen sailing on a boat that looks identical to that featured in the intro to Link's Awakening. On top of that, upon being re-released for the GBA, A Link to the Past was updated with the artistic style introduced with the Oracle games, so that may relate them further, indicating that perhaps this arc of the timeline is read as ALttP - OoS[A] - LA - OoA. It is known that Ganon had been defeated prior to the events of OoA/S and LA, respectively, so there's a good chance that they are all linked.

I thoroughly enjoy working out these connections between the game. I'll probably love the next game even more if it totally debunks all that I've thought out so far, because it'll show that the developers have created something totally unexpected (at least by myself).

I never said it wasn't. IT just wasn't included in that list of sequels

 

[Skrah]

Yeah I know, I just named the direct sequels as the connections I believe to be true, or at least, solidly backed up.

 

[Spire]

I never said it wasn't. IT just wasn't included in that list of sequels

Ahh, misinterpreted. My apologies. I thought you were saying, "People [actually] think that Link's Awakening follows A link to the Past [ha!]..."

Or something along those lines.

 

[Skrah]

Ok... change of topic??

Who thinks that having a Navi-like help program or w/e should be in the new game? I don't mean like Midna, I mean a fairy like Navi or Taetl

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

There always has to be some form of assistance, but it doesn't need to be in the form of some extra character.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I dunno. Navi was very annoying, but Taetl wasn't that bad... but still pretty bad. I still prefer characters like King of Red Lions which serve as the character you talk to, but don't really pester you every five minutes. This is also why Kaeopa Gaebora is awesome.

 

[Skrah]

I hated that friggin owl. It would have been cooler if his explanation hadn't been a ****ing novel, and you'd just be tapping A, and when he said, Would you want me to explain again?, you'd say yes. So annoying.

I actually enjoyed Navi, I think that she actually had an impact on Link, since he MM started with Link looking for Navi, as I understand it.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Hammer Bro would be awesome as an assistant. ^_^

I never thought Navi was all that bad.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Navi tries to be helpful, gives frequent advice for puzzles, is completely loyal to Link, and is all around the ideal partner for an adventure.

Midna goes out of her way to be unlikable, rides you like a beast of burden in spite of being able to fly, and threatens you with the destruction of Hyrule via Twilight if you refuse to comply to her whims.

Now, is there anyone who can honestly say they liked Navi better than Midna?

 

[Scott!]

Navi better than Midna? That's a bit much. I never had a problem with Navi at all. I was honestly confused for a bit when I first heard people complain. I understand what people are annoyed by, with her almost instant offering of unnecessary hints, especially when you're trying to do side quests, and all the rest. But it doesn't get to me.

Midna was kind of the same, except backwards. I swear, that does make sense. See, I never thought she was all that exciting. She was more interesting, and had plot relevance and a story and all, but I never clicked with her character. And I do see her appeal. Just... not for me, I guess. I told you it made sense.

I do like the idea of Link always having a sidekick. I just watched Clerks tonight, with the awesome duo of Jay & Silent Bob. Silent Bob is like Link; they both are silent (though Bob speaks on occasion, but it is in his name), and they're both the more useful of their duo. Jay and [Link's sidekick] are the chatty, bothersome, yet endearing characters. Also, if you look at Link as a super hero, and his Triforce-given powers could imply this, then it seems right that he has a sidekick. It just has to be.

 

[Vorguen]

All the Vorguen timeline myth bla bla up there. To be honest, I find the Zelda timeline to be something that really intrigues me however for the sake of butting heads and giving out some lawls I like to be argumentative. I need to be let in the Debate Hall soon, because, I like to stirr those up everywhere. It is my cross to bear.

As for the timeline, if you have your OWN hypothesis I wouldn't mind hearing it. I don't believe it is a myth either, I just believe the timeline is purely speculation with little proof.

That is why I choose not to speak about it, because it is more opinion-based and frankly it is funner to dish out wittiness and sarcasm, mostly at Buzzsaw's expense.

=D


@ Scott!

Navi was pwn! Blue! (at least that is what I think she said, rofl)

 

[Scott!]

"Hey! Hello!" /Navi

Also, Spire does a pretty darn good job of justifying his timeline, and he'll probably be more than happy to do so for you when he reads this. While I've got a good sense of the games and stories, I am not familiar enough with all of them in enough detail to really speculate on my own for an entire timeline, considering I don't know much of anything about the oldest two games.

 

[Vorguen]

Doesn't Navy say "Blue!"... I am 50000000% positive. >.>