The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

[MarKO X]

Brawl Tactical Discussion...

Who would be better at Brawl? McCain or Obama? If they had a match, would the winner influence you to vote for them or not? Would you even be interested in seeming them play Brawl? Would you rather watch them play Melee?

 

[Yuna]

Brawl Tactical Discussion...

Who would be better at Brawl? McCain or Obama? If they had a match, would the winner influence you to vote for them or not? Would you even be interested in seeming them play Brawl? Would you rather watch them play Melee?

Presidential Kombaaaat!!!!

On topic: I apologize for posting off topic. Sometimes, it happens in threads. Especially in threads that have no use anymore.

 

[DanGR]

Please, I was enjoying the "yuna v MK is broken" debates.

MK IS SO BROKEN, HE NEEEEEDS TO BE BANNED!!!

Spoiler

now tell me I'm wrong yuna.

Spoiler

oh, and obama is a raging socialist without any kind of experience in high government positions. ^_^

 

[RDK]

Presidential Kombaaaat!!!!

You know what's horribly sad? That game is more technical than Brawl. And, in some respects, more enjoyable.

 

[Teh_Pwn'z_Lord]

Metaknight is stupidly broken but not unstoppable. I've beat alot of the top players in my area with Olimar :/

 

[ShadowLink84]

Please, I was enjoying the "yuna v MK is broken" debates.

MK IS SO BROKEN, HE NEEEEEDS TO BE BANNED!!!

Spoiler

now tell me I'm wrong yuna.

Spoiler

oh, and obama is a raging socialist without any kind of experience in high government positions. ^_^

And McCain is a raging conservative who wants to continue a war despite the negative economical impact of said war.

Let us not forget how his Vice president basically insulted every single person who has done any work for the community.

Granted Obama is not any better either, but considering the circumstances as well as the choices given... I'll go with the raging socialist.

Ontopic: MK should not be banned. Period.

 

[Youko]

Politics discussion after this point will receive infractions. Stay on-topic.

 

[RDK]

Metaknight is stupidly broken but not unstoppable. I've beat alot of the top players in my area with Olimar :/

I'm not saying that what you've stated is untrue, but it's a fallacious argument to say that MK is not unstoppable or is not a good character just because you've beaten a few friends who play as MK. Simply put, your friends could just suck.

No, MK is not unstoppable, and does not deserve a ban. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't base whether he deserves a ban on whether or not your Olimar can beat your friends who play as MK.

 

[Yuna]

I'm not saying that what you've stated is untrue, but it's a fallacious argument to say that MK is not unstoppable or is not a good character just because you've beaten a few friends who play as MK. Simply put, your friends could just suck.

Let me dumb this down further:
Nobody cares what you and your friends do. Unless you guys happen to be among the best players in the world and playing your characters at the highest possible level.

The more eloquent response:
Personal experience is inconsequential.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ahh youko is such a party pooper

Anyways I recommend this topic be closed. Nothing new can be added.

 

[cutter]

@ ShadowLink:

We've had this topic pop up more and more recently, and I'm not interested in closing tons of threads on the same topic, so lets try to localize all discussion of "banning Metaknight" to this thread.

That's why this thread isn't going to be locked.

 

[Teh_Pwn'z_Lord]

I'm not saying that what you've stated is untrue, but it's a fallacious argument to say that MK is not unstoppable or is not a good character just because you've beaten a few friends who play as MK. Simply put, your friends could just suck.

No, MK is not unstoppable, and does not deserve a ban. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't base whether he deserves a ban on whether or not your Olimar can beat your friends who play as MK.

Does Lee count?

 

[ShadowLink84]

@ ShadowLink:

That's why this thread isn't going to be locked.

I saw the Op from earlier my point is that his topic has fulfilled is point.
Sticky it if needed.

 

[Yuna]

@ ShadowLink:



That's why this thread isn't going to be locked.

That was two weeks and 1400+ posts ago.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

That was two weeks and 1400+ posts ago.

Yes, and this thread is still going strong, because there is always SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE who wants to john about MK and his tornado, his recovery, his speed...

 

[RDK]

Does Lee count?

I don't understand what you mean by this at all.

Yes, and this thread is still going strong, because there is always SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE who wants to john about MK and his tornado, his recovery, his speed...

Ah, the burden of the competitive intellectual. To educate the dumb, brutish masses is to achieve immortality.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I don't understand what you mean by this at all.



Ah, the burden of the competitive intellectual. To educate the dumb, brutish masses is to achieve immortality.

...either that, or it's to waste of a couple hours every day on a hopeless endeavor. It's one or the other.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ah, the burden of the competitive intellectual. To educate the dumb, brutish masses is to achieve immortality.

Maybe we should get new hobbies...



btw, this isn't political even though this issues comes up in politics, NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE CREATIONALISTS, I know I mentioned this to you before, even in the US it's only a small majority. Thank you and goodnight.

Yes, and this thread is still going strong, because there is always SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE who wants to john about MK and his tornado, his recovery, his speed...

And it's our job to set them straight, and maybe, just MAYBE a few of them will realize that it's way too early to go about banning anything that isn't Akuma, and they'll learn some basic logic... or not.

 

[Ulevo]

And it's our job to set them straight, and maybe, just MAYBE a few of them will realize that it's way too early to go about banning anything that isn't Akuma, and they'll learn some basic logic... or not.

No, because then they'll argue on why he is Akuma.

For every argument that can be refuted, there are four more that the inexperienced or weak minded will throw at you in return, continuing the cycle. And once someone like Yuna comes along to thoroughly dismantle all possible johns that could be made, it will be buried in amongst the posts made by other inexperienced players who didn't read the rest of the thread.

Hence why I myself at least make an honest attempt to stay out of these threads, as well as the General Brawl Discussion, unless it pertains to discussing topics with a more knowledgeable and experienced individual.

 

[Yuna]

Yes, and this thread is still going strong, because there is always SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE who wants to john about MK and his tornado, his recovery, his speed...

That's not going strong, that's being a broken record.

 

[adumbrodeus]

No, because then they'll argue on why he is Akuma.

For every argument that can be refuted, there are four more that the inexperienced or weak minded will throw at you in return, continuing the cycle. And once someone like Yuna comes along to thoroughly dismantle all possible johns that could be made, it will be buried in amongst the posts made by other inexperienced players who didn't read the rest of the thread.

Hey, I did my share of "totally dismantling posts" too. I just was slightly less heavy-handed.

Also, they had nuances about possible bans in the future (when the metagame has matured fully enough to be able to REALLY tell) depending on how many characters he actually does make unviable in tournaments, which resulted in the one conversation which actually developed.

Hence why I myself at least make an honest attempt to stay out of these threads, as well as the General Brawl Discussion, unless it pertains to discussing topics with a more knowledgeable and experienced individual.

Generally a good policy... but, occasionally it happens.

I guess this was sort of my fault, somebody talked about banning snake a while back on the tier discussion thread, and I HAD to point out that MK was more ban-worthy because of his "field-clearing" effect in tournaments (when the metagame had matured of course, and given he still did that).

D***, why do I always have to predict future trends on smashboards with my off-handed comments?

So, I felt obliged to post.

(yes, I know it's not really my fault)

 

[FishStix]

No need to ban MK

That's just like, my opinion, maaann..

 

[SkylerOcon]

So...

This thread has reached an end. Should it be locked and then re-opened a few months from now?

 

[RDK]

I'd prefer not to give the brainless masses even more material to p!ss and moan over. All the half-intelligent arguments have been refuted. Let it rest.

 

[MarKO X]

I'm sorry, this is off topic, but I love the last few posts. It's like you guys are this brotherhood of intelligent people, aiming to destroy the ignorance that comes from the noobs Brawl has materialized in an attempt to maybe, just maybe save the community from this dark age...

 

[Ulevo]

I'm sorry, this is off topic, but I love the last few posts. It's like you guys are this brotherhood of intelligent people, aiming to destroy the ignorance that comes from the noobs Brawl has materialized in an attempt to maybe, just maybe save the community from this dark age...

Just for an ironic twist, SBR bans Meta Knight a month from now out of spite.

 

[Yuna]

I guess this was sort of my fault, somebody talked about banning snake a while back on the tier discussion thread, and I HAD to point out that MK was more ban-worthy because of his "field-clearing" effect in tournaments (when the metagame had matured of course, and given he still did that).

Yes, because obviously Smashboards revolves around you.

I'm not surprised some Scrubs wanted to ban Snake, though. They'll call for a ban on any character who manages to be the currently winningest character, I guess.

 

[RDK]

Yes, because obviously Smashboards revolves around you.

I'm not surprised some Scrubs wanted to ban Snake, though. They'll call for a ban on any character who manages to be the currently winningest character, I guess.

Which is exactly why if MK and Snake get the boot, a b!tchfest will erupt about Marth, and Game and Watch, and straight down the line until all the top and high tiers are gone.

 

[Yuna]

Which is exactly why if MK and Snake get the boot, a b!tchfest will erupt about Marth, and Game and Watch, and straight down the line until all the top and high tiers are gone.

Not surprisingly, I said this as early as probably back when this thread's page-count was single digit.

 

[Teh_Pwn'z_Lord]

I don't understand what you mean by this at all.



Ah, the burden of the competitive intellectual. To educate the dumb, brutish masses is to achieve immortality.

Since people were saying me beating people with Olimar I said if beating Lee w/ Olimar counted....

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Since people were saying me beating people with Olimar I said if beating Lee w/ Olimar counted....

Am I the only person confused by this post?

 

[Teh_Pwn'z_Lord]

People said it didnt matter if I beat my friends w/ Olimar unless they were well known, I have beaten Lee w/ Olimar does that count as good? .... -_-

 

[infomon]

Yuna - arguing both sides of a debate brings people to a greater knowledge at the end of discussion than faithfulness to one opinion.

This fails because if you are an advocate for one perspective on an issue, then you are most likely not capable of properly arguing for an alternative perspective. Since the source of a debate may be a clash of premises, experience, or solid knowledge about an issue... if you attempt to argue for a viewpoint you disagree with, you will do it poorly. Which just spreads misinformation, by misrepresentation...

So as Yuna pointed out, it really depends on the format of the discussion. Like if you're doing an information piece about a debate, you would discuss both sides, as you are attempting to speak from an unbiased stance. But that's not the format in play, here...

(I figured this aspect of the previous conversation is just as applicable to the debate about MK as to the unfortunate political digression. But a mod can delete this post if it's seen as fueling a fire )

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

People said it didnt matter if I beat my friends w/ Olimar unless they were well known, I have beaten Lee w/ Olimar does that count as good? .... -_-

You can beat someone's MK 1,000 times with your Olimar. No matter how many times you personally beat a character, it won't change the entire tier list. Characters move up the tier list as their metagame develops and when they surpass another character's potential.

This fails because if you are an advocate for one perspective on an issue, then you are most likely not capable of properly arguing for an alternative perspective. Since the source of a debate may be a clash of premises, experience, or solid knowledge about an issue... if you attempt to argue for a viewpoint you disagree with, you will do it poorly. Which just spreads misinformation, by misrepresentation...

So as Yuna pointed out, it really depends on the format of the discussion. Like if you're doing an information piece about a debate, you would discuss both sides, as you are attempting to speak from an unbiased stance. But that's not the format in play, here...

(I figured this aspect of the previous conversation is just as applicable to the debate about MK as to the unfortunate political digression. But a mod can delete this post if it's seen as fueling a fire )

Um... did you just say Yuna fails? Prepare to be burned.

 

[infomon]

Um... did you just say Yuna fails? Prepare to be burned.

No, I didn't.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Why must we always be an advocate for an opinion? I often pick the unpopular side myself, because the popular side is dull when so many people agree.

I have to argue MK's bannability to get the attention of good posters, as arguing MK's not bannable usually gets more emotional/unfamiliar posters.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yes, because obviously Smashboards revolves around you.

I'm not surprised some Scrubs wanted to ban Snake, though. They'll call for a ban on any character who manages to be the currently winningest character, I guess.

Nah, hence the post-note that I'm not responsible, it had to come up eventually. All I'm saying really is that I was the first person that I know of to say that MK fit the criteria better.



But yeah, still the calls for a Snake ban were considerably less loud. A couple of posters here and there, nothing major. Now it seems like everybody ignorant on smashboards has decided to unite against MK.

Which is exactly why if MK and Snake get the boot, a b!tchfest will erupt about Marth, and Game and Watch, and straight down the line until all the top and high tiers are gone.

Doubtful, while he was at the top the calls for bans were very limited comparatively. MKs calls are considerably more loud.

Still, it's not like the whining even matters. If MK does end up clearly fitting the criteria when the metagame matures, he'll be banned. If it's unclear, it could go either way. If he clearly doesn't, he won't be banned.

Nothing else looks like it will have a chance to fit the criteria, so it doesn't really matter how much people whine (however, judging by the massive difference between MK and Snake whining, it probably won't be much), decisions will be made on merits or lack thereof.

In other words, the fact that people may or may not whine about other characters in the future is irrelevant to the discussion of whether MK should be banned or not.

 

[pika-power]

So what is needed for a character to be banned? For them to be Akuma? What does that mean?

Old Sarget (I think that was his name) was soft banned in Japan because in doing so, other characters became viable. If Metaknight was banned, would the same thing happen, or would it only free up the next in line?

 

[OrlanduEX]

So what is needed for a character to be banned? For them to be Akuma? What does that mean?

Old Sarget (I think that was his name) was soft banned in Japan because in doing so, other characters became viable. If Metaknight was banned, would the same thing happen, or would it only free up the next in line?

To answer the first question, for MK to be Akuma, he would have to be unquestionably the only tourney viable character. He would have to be 10 times better than the next best character. He would have to be so overpowered that any average scrub could pick him up in a few hours and thrash pros with the same move over and over. He isn't that good, and he likely never will be.

For your second point, Old Sagat wasn't banned 6 months after the game came out. They waited years for the metagame to develop. Also, he's still not banned in the States, and our metagame is fine.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

If someone gets to ban all the high tiers for a while, the Low tiers might surpass the Mid or High(some characters have potential)