Considering Shaymin does a max 30% with modest Life Orb Seed Flare it doesnt seem like much of a problem for blissey. Or Celebi who will probably ALSO see a rise in use, more than likely, again, on stall teams.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
The Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ss118
- Start date
Not really. And the fact that SkarmBliss basically nulls Seed Flare's use(and meager 8 PP) is annoying as ****. Trust me, I used Shaymin alot, i know how it works and how it doesnt work and it really doesnt work against stall. Even if you predict right and get the Super Effective hits when you need them you basically HAVE to get a SpDef drop or you will be walled all over.
I expect a rise in Heracross btw. Just throwin that out there.
I expect a rise in Heracross btw. Just throwin that out there.
Wave⁂
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 11,870
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
The only Pokemon people even close to be tested for Suspect is Breloom, simply because people hate it. It doesn't have a chance though.
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
Somebody the other day told me to use Cradily.
Whoever that was, thank you. Due to Tyranitars Sand Stream, almost nothing I've come across in OU can beat my Curse+Rock Slide+Earthquake+Recover Crad.
Whoever that was, thank you. Due to Tyranitars Sand Stream, almost nothing I've come across in OU can beat my Curse+Rock Slide+Earthquake+Recover Crad.
How about Perish Song Celebi or Toxic Spikes?
Fuelbi
Banned via Warnings
I like where this is going.
So let me ask, anybody think that Magikarp is gonna end up in Ubers anytime soon?
Pluvia
Hates Semicolons<br>;
Just switch into Crad after they've put down one Toxic Spikes. Never come across a Perish Song Celeb, only like Leech Seeding ones that are completely ineffective against me.
Pretty much the only thing my team can't beat is Acid armour and Fighting types.
Wave⁂
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 11,870
Rest Talk Cradily is better, since then you don't get ***** by Toxic. Cradily's Fighting weakness and Scizor are the only things between it and OU...
Cease Tick
Smash Ace
I think that agiligross could benefit from salamence's removal. With mence gone base 100 pos nature scarfers will be a lot less common.
I thought Agiligross' main counter was Rotom-A, who could resist all of its moveset and cripple with WoW.
UltiMario
Out of Obscurity
A friend and I have been using that Cursedily for eons.
Toxic avoiding isn't even a problem either. By the time it dies to toxic it has already done the damage it needed to. QuakeSlide and instant recovery are amazing.
I've ALWAYS thought that Grass should resist fighting (dunno why, though) so if that happened
A. a lot more OU and UU Grass Types.
B. OU Cradily.
<3333
ss118
Smash Master
Mence can beat rotom. It just needs a Lum berry and either EQ+Gravity or agility+zen headbutt.
UltiMario
Out of Obscurity
Mence? I think you mean Gross, buddy.
ss118
Smash Master
Yes I did. =/
Mence can beat him, too!
Mence can beat him, too!
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
Isnt Mence, like banned or something? lol. Heatran is the new Scizor, I already saw one post saying he should be the next suspect in smogon. Oh, how heads will roll if they do that.
Metal~Mario
Smash Lord
Banning Heatran?
WOW. What is up with Smogon?
WOW. What is up with Smogon?
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
It was just a random poster though >_>. Ive also seen breloom mentioned XD. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75180
Metal~Mario
Smash Lord
Wrath`
Smash Master
Seeing as this is the first gen in witch OU pokemon have become Ubers over time, do you think that the B/W metagame could see a return of Salamance/Latias/Garchomp? What would be required to make them OU again?
RuNNing Riot
Smash Lord
An Ubers Pokemon that would completely render Salamence/Garchomp useless, AND a bunch of newer OU Pokemon that would compete with them in said tier.
Seeing as there's likely to be a lot less legendary Pokemon, that might be a little hopeful.
Seeing as there's likely to be a lot less legendary Pokemon, that might be a little hopeful.
Fuelbi
Banned via Warnings
****ing ****, this new stalling metagame is pissing me off 
The Real Gamer
Smash Hero
Stall them back, but harder.
Fuelbi
Banned via Warnings
Nah, I just bring out Infernape and if somebody switches in a matchup he doesn't like, I just switch out with U-Turn.
The amount of stall I've encountered after 5 matches is amazing though.
I can't believe I have to make one now >_>
UltiMario
Out of Obscurity
I sorta refuse to play this stupid metagame now so all you'll hear from me is some theorymon ramblings.
Is there really a reason why Dragon/Steel doesn't work? With less base 100 Scarfers and Scizor gone, couldn't you run something like...
SR Lead
Dragonite@Yache Berry
X Natures EV etc (too lazy to calc what's needed)
DD
Outrage/Dragon Claw
FB
EQ
Steel Trapper Magnezone
ScarfRachi with Iron Head/Ice Punch/Fire Punch/U-Turn, Flygon might also be able to squeeze into this spot.
LO Weavile with Ice Punch or Shard/Low Kick/Night Slash/Pursuit or Fake Out or some other filler
Tran of some sort, Scarf... Shuca Maybe?
Yeah it has a huge ground weakness but whatever in theory it works.
Man Weavile is so much better without Scizor around as much.
Is there really a reason why Dragon/Steel doesn't work? With less base 100 Scarfers and Scizor gone, couldn't you run something like...
SR Lead
Dragonite@Yache Berry
X Natures EV etc (too lazy to calc what's needed)
DD
Outrage/Dragon Claw
FB
EQ
Steel Trapper Magnezone
ScarfRachi with Iron Head/Ice Punch/Fire Punch/U-Turn, Flygon might also be able to squeeze into this spot.
LO Weavile with Ice Punch or Shard/Low Kick/Night Slash/Pursuit or Fake Out or some other filler
Tran of some sort, Scarf... Shuca Maybe?
Yeah it has a huge ground weakness but whatever in theory it works.
Man Weavile is so much better without Scizor around as much.
Circa
Smash Champion
Give it time for people to realize that stall is still stopped relatively easily. That'll change things.****ing ****, this new stalling metagame is pissing me off
The Real Gamer
Smash Hero
So when are people going to realize Jolteon is a good lead and actually start using it? My opponent was obviously expecting a Shadow Ball...
---
sb trg switched in Heatran (lvl Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
masttershake sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
sb trg sent out Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
masttershake switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Heatran lost 54% of its health.
Heatran is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Jolteon lost 10% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Heatran used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Heatran lost 46% of its health.
masttershake's Heatran fainted.
Jolteon lost 10% of its health.
---
masttershake switched in Gengar (lvl 100 Gengar ?).
Gengar used Shadow Ball.
The substitute took damage for Jolteon!
Jolteon's substitute faded!
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Gengar lost 93% of its health.
Jolteon lost 10% of its health.
I switch to Heatran
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
Gengar used Shadow Ball.
It's not very effective...
Heatran lost 20% of its health.
---
masttershake switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's Intimidate cut Heatran's attack!
Heatran used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
sb trg switched in Heatran (lvl Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
masttershake sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
sb trg sent out Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
masttershake switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Heatran lost 54% of its health.
Heatran is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Jolteon lost 10% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Heatran used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Heatran lost 46% of its health.
masttershake's Heatran fainted.
Jolteon lost 10% of its health.
---
masttershake switched in Gengar (lvl 100 Gengar ?).
Gengar used Shadow Ball.
The substitute took damage for Jolteon!
Jolteon's substitute faded!
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Gengar lost 93% of its health.
Jolteon lost 10% of its health.
I switch to Heatran
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
Gengar used Shadow Ball.
It's not very effective...
Heatran lost 20% of its health.
---
masttershake switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's Intimidate cut Heatran's attack!
Heatran used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
RuNNing Riot
Smash Lord
If you don't have Shadow Ball, what else do you have? If you don't have it then you get walled to hell and back by loads of things that could set up on you like Ground types with boosting moves.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
That opponent played pretty badly. Jolteon's good, just not as a lead.
The Real Gamer
Smash Hero
The point of the lead is pass a Substitute for early game momentum by making your opponent switch, or letting them use their first turn to set up SR while you get your Sub up. But most opponents (like the one shown above), think it's an all out anti-lead and switch their lead out to absorb my next "attack."
It does very, very well against SR leads (most importantly, Azelf) but not as great against anti-leads, but it can handle quite a few anti-leads such as Dragonite.
All of you can refer to the following thread to look at our in-depth lead Jolteon discussion and see how it works: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=277895
Then after you've read it, try it!
EDIT: Wave what are you talking about? When did I ever say this lead required good prediction?
It does very, very well against SR leads (most importantly, Azelf) but not as great against anti-leads, but it can handle quite a few anti-leads such as Dragonite.
All of you can refer to the following thread to look at our in-depth lead Jolteon discussion and see how it works: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=277895
Then after you've read it, try it!
EDIT: Wave what are you talking about? When did I ever say this lead required good prediction?
I was under the impression that Aerodactyl could easily shut you down, so I don't get where you're coming from with this "does very well against SR leads" thing.
The Real Gamer
Smash Hero
I never said ALL now did I? Aero is one of the few that can get past it, but for any other SR lead that opens with SR, you automatically have the momentum.
Wave⁂
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 11,870
When did I say anything that would warrant such a response?
Your lead is fundamentally the same as any lead out there. Azelf can do the exact same thing as your Jolteon. You both switch out against certain leads, you just use fancy switching with Substitute + Baton Pass (a Substitute that is very easily broken). It's a solid strategy, but you don't need something like Jolteon do pull it off.
Well, let's see. Tyranitar takes special attacks like a champ and carries Earthquake at times for Steel leads. Hippowdon's completely fine with anything you do, unless it's like... immediately Baton Passing into a LO Azelf with Grass Knot, or something. You can hope that leadGross doesn't run Earthquake. LeadTran can Earth Power you, and lead ScarfTran will kill you before you can even do anything. You run HP Ice, so even though Swampert players will probably not take the risk, he walls you pretty hard.
I guess it's kinda cool to you that out of the top fifteen most used leads, you gain momentum on four of them. Well, if the Infernape catches on to you when he hits you with Fake Out and reveals Leftovers, maybe just three.
I guess it's kinda cool to you that out of the top fifteen most used leads, you gain momentum on four of them. Well, if the Infernape catches on to you when he hits you with Fake Out and reveals Leftovers, maybe just three.
The Real Gamer
Smash Hero
You can really screw your opponent over when the Sub isn't broken though. That's the main key. Like one example I have (wish I saved the log) is when a TTar lead opened with SR, and I got my Sub up. The next turn, I BP'ed to my Infernape, and my Sub didn't get broken when my opponent used Pursuit. I obviously ended up winning the game just for that one move. Dumb move by my opponent, but that was just an example.
And other Pokemon can pull off the BPing, but Jolteon still has a lot more firepower and speed that others don't, so it can threaten a lot of other common leads... The main one being Azelf.
Give me a correct list of the current top 15 leads and I'll show you what I would do in every situation.
I'm very confident with this lead. I've been using it long enough to learn what it can handle and how to get around leads that it can't. I planned on using it for BOTW, but unfortnately I didn't get enough votes and I wouldn't be able to participate even if I did due to the upcoming fam reunion.
EDIT: Here's a good one that just happened:
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
sb trg sent out Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
ae testing sent out Roserade (lvl 100 Roserade ?).
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Roserade used Sleep Powder.
Roserade's attack missed!
---
Jolteon used Baton Pass.
sb trg switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Roserade used Hidden Power.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for Heatran!
---
ae testing switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Heatran used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
Dragonite used Extremespeed.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for Heatran!
Heatran's substitute faded!
Heatran used Explosion.
Dragonite lost 100% of its health.
ae testing's Dragonite fainted.
sb trg's Heatran fainted.
---
I think you need to play better people. You know, the ones who don't try to outrun Jolteon with a base 90 speeder (unless it's a Scarf lead, which it clearly isn't).
The list is on Smogon. Check it yourself.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74730
The list is on Smogon. Check it yourself.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74730
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
More and more pokemon are leaving OU and it's not going to stop. They might as well make OU+ or something to make a new tier for pokemon like Garchomp Salamence etc. Ok so what if they're on a differ level doesn't mean they should be banned. Just make a new tier.