The Metagame Discussion Thread

[mood4food77]

if you force it to switch out, it's gotta take another 25% damage, making it easier to deal with

it's still a force but a whole lot easier to deal with

 

[ss118]

Yeah that makes it a bunch better.

Mence comes in, takes SR, threatens with Draco Meteor to kill. If you switch around you either lose a pokemon, a lot of % off of one and then some on another, or a bunch off of your revenge-killer since it's a steel(Jirachi, Scizor), and it can't come in again. With SR and 2 turns of LO, he just lose only 45%. In comes Scizor: move out.

Next time he comes in he's at 30%. Likely your team is even MORE weakened so it will be even easier to threaten with Draco Meteor. If you try to sacrifice something else there's even a chance of it Roosting, leaving all the power in the Salamence user's hands. Even if you predict correctly and switch when he attacks, you bring in Scizor and KO it. Congrats: your down ~1.5 pokemon and took out one. Then there's stuff with SR since Scizor is down by at least 25% being forced to come in twice: and if SR is assumed on the mence side, why not on the other side as well?

I hate myself right now.

Edit: If your a baller, you would Pursuit on Mence after the first Draco Meteor. That's actually a really cool idea.

 

[mood4food77]

yea but how many steel types know pursuit outside of scizor?

 

[kirbyraeg]

Y'know what's good to deal with mence?

Give something it likes to switch in on EXPLOSION.

then sweep with your own mence with the free switch-in it gets.

 

[Circa]

Y'know what's good to deal with mence?

Give something it likes to switch in on EXPLOSION.

You realize how many things there are in OU that don't carry Explosion enough for it to actually not cross the opponent's mind before switching in Mence?

A grand total of 1.

You know how much Mence is going to want to switch into this specific Pokemon?

A grand total of never.

I guess it could consider switching into Bronzong, but at the same time I really don't know if Mence would be entirely willing to switch into Zong when it could be carrying a myriad of things that don't exactly benefit Mence's sweep any.

 

[Wave⁂]

yea but how many steel types know pursuit outside of scizor?

Metagross, derp

 

[kirbyraeg]

Metagross should be used more.

 

[Fuelbi]

Wait, PO won't let me go on OU with Mence... NOOOOOOOO HE GOT BANNED!!!

 

[Metal~Mario]

So Mence was banned...

Big deal. I'll just change my team a little. It didn't include a Mence, so I'm fine.

Of course, that leads to the question of who to use if you had Mence originally.....

 

[Zankoku]

Dragonite would be the most obvious answer, since he shares a very similar moveset and is really only lacking in speed.

 

[Fuelbi]

Dragonite would be the most obvious answer, since he shares a very similar moveset and is really only lacking in speed.

I thought Dnite was supposed to suck this tier?

 

[CRASHiC]

Kingdra would be my go to Dragon now. Her stats are less than Dragonite, however the wonderful type coverage, wonderful resistences, slightly faster speed, super abilities, and the ability to set up on Heatran all make it the most appealing dragon right now. I wouldn't be surprised if Rain Dance becomes a more prominent tactic in the metagame as well.

 

[Wave⁂]

Dragonite would be the most obvious answer, since he shares a very similar moveset and is really only lacking in speed.

I want nobody, nobody but Mence

 

[Metal~Mario]

His speed issue is just too great to completely replace mence as a sweeper.

But as a wallbreaker....maybe....

Another good question: Will this affect the popularity of Ice Beam/Shard?

Another good question: How major a metagame change is this?

 

[Firus]

I thought Dnite was supposed to suck this tier?

Part of the reason Dragonite sucked in OU was because he was so clearly outclassed by Salamence. With Salamence out of the way, he's one of the most viable alternatives.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Part of the reason Dragonite sucked in OU was because he was so clearly outclassed by Salamence. With Salamence out of the way, he's one of the most viable alternatives.

Thunderbolt the Bulky Waters!

Cool. Also Ice Beam and Superpower.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I want nobody, nobody but Mence

You officially won this thread.

Dragonite has Extremespeed, and Superpower. Each of which has a unique use and will hopefully promote his usage, since Salamence is gone.

 

[CRASHiC]

No. Don't use Extreme Speed on Dragonite.

Who switches into Dragons?
Steel types.
So what good is Extreme Speed going to do you, ever?
None.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Spoke without thinking-ignore.

 

[Wave⁂]

Ice Beam on Nite is probably the biggest waste of a moveslot, ever

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'm pretty sure with Dragonite's wonderful base Special Attack stat the only special moves he runs are Draco Meteor and Fire Blast.

If any at all.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Ice Beam on Nite is probably the biggest waste of a moveslot, ever

Freeze hax man

Yeah, you're right.

 

[Fuelbi]

So let's see, would MixNite be a good Dnite to replace Mence?

And now that I don't really need IB anymore, should I replace IB on Pert with Surf and IB on Starmie with something else?

 

[kirbyraeg]

Extremespeed is great on Dragonite. You guys are smoking something.

 

[Metal~Mario]

I think it's because of the ES vs DD dilemma.

It's great on CB Nite, but wouldn't you want DD in every other situation where you need more speed?

 

[TLMSheikant]

What would be the best EV spread for a mixnite? Im using one with 252 speed, 252 satk, 6 atk (naive nature). Draco Meteor Fire Blast Earthquake Outrage

 

[Metal~Mario]

Go to smogon for such info.

They've got 112At/196SpA/200Speed, +SpA nature, and SP/DM/Flamethrower/T-bolt or Roost

 

[TLMSheikant]

Completely forgot superpower O_o. It says satk + nature. But wouldnt being able to outrun adamant gyara and thunderbolt it be good? + speed nature would also help to outspeed and KO lucario...and non scarf tran.

 

[Fuelbi]

Go to smogon for such info.

They've got 112At/196SpA/200Speed, +SpA nature, and SP/DM/Flamethrower/T-bolt or Roost

So I suppose this MixNite would be a good replacement for Mence right?

 

[CRASHiC]

Nah not really.

 

[Fuelbi]

Then would someone mind giving me a good replacement?

 

[Wave⁂]

There is none. Mence cannot be replaced. No other Pokémon has the amazing stats, typing, ability, and type coverage as Mence.

 

[CRASHiC]

Just replace your team. Dragonite can't handle the same people, counter the same people, or check the same people as Salemence because of speed and ability differences. He'll be counting different pokemon. You're best just making a new team.

 

[Fuelbi]

God ****ing **** it.

I'm too **** lazy to make a new team and I already have a good enough balance as it is

 

[TLMSheikant]

Mixnite can still wallbreak pretty **** good...He's just not speedy .

 

[kirbyraeg]

y'know what replaces mence? nothing.

I was going to post something here but realized that I didn't have anything worth saying, but it's too late to delete this post.

 

[Fuelbi]

y'know what replaces mence? Awesome stuff like Curse Swampert.

But I already got a Swampert as my lead

 

[Circa]

I'm pretty sure with Dragonite's wonderful base Special Attack stat the only special moves he runs are Draco Meteor and Fire Blast.

If any at all.

MixNite is actually supposed to run Flamethrower, and can run Thunderbolt as well.

So let's see, would MixNite be a good Dnite to replace Mence?

And now that I don't really need IB anymore, should I replace IB on Pert with Surf and IB on Starmie with something else?

No. MixNite needs more support than MixMence to be effective against stall.

And Ice Beam is still god **** necessary. You do realize just how effective ScarfGon is now, right? And that's not to mention how much people are using Nite.

Extremespeed is great on Dragonite. You guys are smoking something.

This. Very much this.

God ****ing **** it.

I'm too **** lazy to make a new team and I already have a good enough balance as it is

Then I guess you're going to suck in the new metagame, which now requires you to actually know how to beat stall past just throwing a freaking MixMence on your team.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Then I guess you're going to suck in the new metagame, which now requires you to actually know how to beat stall past just throwing a freaking MixMence on your team.

yeah you just throw a Mixnape on your team now -_-.

 

[Wave⁂]

MixApe is probably the best Salamence replacement. You can't just swap them out, though. They're both excellent wallbreakers, but they operate differently.

Mixed Flygon could be a decent replacement. Basically the same typing, but without that Stealth Rock weakness.

Also Breloom is happy right now