The Metagame Discussion Thread

[Fuelbi]

MixApe is probably the best Salamence replacement. You can't just swap them out, though. They're both excellent wallbreakers, but they operate differently.

Mixed Flygon could be a decent replacement. Basically the same typing, but without that Stealth Rock weakness.

Also Breloom is happy right now

So Mixed Flygon would be the better replacement?

 

[Circa]

Also Shaymin is happy right now

Fix'd for semi-accuracy. If there's any Grass-type that should be happy with the ban, it's Shaymin. Obviously the other Grass-types are happy as well, but not quite as much as a Pokemon that's been sitting as one of the forgotten BL Pokemon that may now stand a chance at securing its place in OU.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Oh **** I completely forgot Mence was always my breloom "counter" FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. What is a good pokemon for that job now?

 

[RuNNing Riot]

So Mixed Flygon would be the better replacement?

Flygon has a much better offensive and defensive typing but he's not nearly as great a wallbreaker as he can't use special attacks that effectively, and his Attack is far lower. He can't afford to start splitting his EVs up.

How is Shaymin going to like Mence's departure so much? Hax Seed Flare?

 

[Fuelbi]

Flygon has a much better offensive and defensive typing but he's not nearly as great a wallbreaker as he can't use special attacks that effectively, and his Attack is far lower. He can't afford to start splitting his EVs up.

How is Shaymin going to like Mence's departure so much? Hax Seed Flare?

But wouldn't that be better instead of sacrificing a load of health due to Stealth Rock weakness?

 

[Wave⁂]

I honestly don't get how Shaymin is so great. Doesn't he usually carry HP Ice?

 

[TLMSheikant]

I guess it wont have to worry about having hp ice and can carry hp fire or something else...but other than that I dont see why ppl are saying it will rise...

 

[Pink Reaper]

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

10 matches in i've seen nothing but stall, man i love this new metagame.

 

[CRASHiC]

That's just because of the rumor that Stall is unstoppable now, you said yourself there are still potent sweepers out there after Salemence is gone.

 

[Pink Reaper]

yeah, but see, no one cares.

Sort of like how Zapdos is one of the most amazing pokemon in OU, it doesnt actually matter if no one uses it.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Now I have to use 2 NFEs to play with an all-dragon team.

lame.

 

[Zankoku]

I still believe that Obi Stall is made significantly better by the loss of both Latias and Salamence from the Standard metagame.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Now I have to use 2 NFEs to play with an all-dragon team.

lame.

Kingdra / Dragonite / Altaria / Gabite / Shelgon

That's really lame.

 

[Wave⁂]

Stall still kind of loses to Infernape.

 

[Riddle]

Tentacruel is a semi-answer to Infernape

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Didn't stall not end up dominated Suspect as everyone predicted it would? Doesn't that say something now about the metagame without Salamence? And the "mighty stall's" ability in such a metagame?

 

[Charmander]

Kingdra / Dragonite / Altaria / Gabite / Shelgon

That's really lame.

Why is flygon not there? >.>

 

[UltiMario]

Now I have to use 2 NFEs to play with an all-dragon team.

lame.

4 Drag, 2 Mag.

Duh.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Stall only really has infernape to worry about now and because of that there will probably be a shift to double waters on stall teams. vap/cruel or cune/crule will probably be the big two to use.

 

[Majority]

Why aren't any stall pokemon being sent to Ubers? Blissey should've gone to Ubers long before Salamence.

 

[Fuelbi]

Why aren't any stall pokemon being sent to Ubers? Blissey should've gone to Ubers long before Salamence.

Infernape and Machamp could easily beat Blissey

 

[UltiMario]

Any Physical move with a boost could beat Blissey.

Anything with a respectable attack stat could 2HKO Blissey.

Yeah.

 

[Wave⁂]

Blissey is OU for the same reason Scizor is OU. Just because they heavily affect the metagame and heavily counter many Pokémon doesn't make them Uber. Blissey is stopped cold by half OU, while Scizor is destroyed by Water-, Fire-, and Rotom-types.

 

[Pink Reaper]

But blissey does legitimately unbalance the OU tier what with her canceling out special attacks entirely. She nulls pure special attackers all on her own.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Blissey is one of the sole reasons pure special attackers aren't nearly as common as physical ones. Most offensive sweepers are either mixed or pure physical.

I personally feel that banning Blissey would lead to a more balanced and fun metagame.

 

[UltiMario]

Special is the dominant force, it's Blissey in the way.

Look at NU, no special walls of the levels of Blissey for the tier. Almost everything is special, and the special sweepers destroy everything.

It's either almost completely Physical or almost completely special. Choose one, seeing as Blissey is the force that decides it. No, a metagame with half and half is not possible. Special just obliterates everything without Blissey.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I dont think that banning blissey would lead to more balance or more fun but there's at least a legitimate argument you could make about it.

 

[Fuelbi]

****, if only Blissey was a bit weaker. I mean, then it'd outclass some special sweepers, while not all of then are completely outclassed

 

[CRASHiC]

Ya know the metagame now isn't all Physical. Mostly, sure, but not all. Heatran still runs around bein a *****. Shaymin can do some damage. Crocune does a good job.

All of this WITH Blissey and NO Physical Blissey. Its perfectly possible for special users to rise up without banning Blissey. Perhaps next gen we will get just that.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'm not necessarily sure if banning Blissey would shift the OU metagame from being almost all physical/mixed to almost all special, especially with the offensive forces that are SD Scizor, SD Lucario, Machamp, etc.

But even without Blissey we still have Snorlax as well as a few other balanced walls that can be geared towards tanking special attacks (I could see Calm Mind Rachi rising in usage).

And I know very little about the NU tier but is it more offensively based than OU? If it is than that could be one of the reasons why special attackers run rampant in it. Maybe the OU metagame could handle special attackers better than the NU tier.

 

[Wave⁂]

NU is basically the same as LC.

Also, saying that Blissey kills special Pokémon is a giant exaggeration. Look at Suspect usage. FWG cores in OU are virtually all specially inclined Pokémon. The only exceptions that come to mind are Breloom, Gyarados, and Heatran's Explosion.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Let the record show that I just went up against a team with THREE (yes not one, not two, but freaking three) bulky waters.

Bulky DD Gyra with both Lanturn and Swampert to cover its Electric weakness. Also had Scizor and Skarmory to cover the grass weakness.

Extremely annoying team.

 

[CRASHiC]

That's why you need Shaymin dude.

 

[Zankoku]

If Gyarados runs Bounce as a counter to potential rise in Grass types, a single DD'd Bounce would OHKO the only Shaymin set that might actually pose a threat to it.

 

[CRASHiC]

That's why the good Arceus gave us rock attacks. Shaymin takes care of the other pokemon. If your team is weak to bulky waters, Sceptile, Shaymin, and Breloom can take care of that.

 

[JOE!]

so, who is next to be in ubers now that two of the psuedos are there?

Dnite, ttar or Meta?

 

[CRASHiC]

None of the above.

 

[Pink Reaper]

It should be noted that the other big stall water combo will more than likely be Swampert/Rest Talk Gyara. Shaymin is a non-issue to Stall since Blissey still exists.

 

[UltiMario]

Just to say, with Mence gone and Scizor being used only like half as much now, it looks like Weavile could come back and be useful. A lot of its favoritest prey are at the top of the ladder or somewhere in the middle.

 

[Circa]

It should be noted that the other big stall water combo will more than likely be Swampert/Rest Talk Gyara. Shaymin is a non-issue to Stall since Blissey still exists.

Au contraire, Shaymin is actually one of the few special sweepers that has the ability to deal with Blissey. Because you'll constantly have to be switching Blissey in and out so as to not get murdered by the little hedgehog, Shaymin can really be a potent method of tearing down stall.

Oh, but if only it was blessed with Serene Grace. It would be much easier to rip through stall with said blessing.