The Lucas General Discussion

[Luco]

That kirby vs Lucario was lol, I was not paying attention then I got smacked by a hammer x_X

Your friend was pretty good tbh and yer, tomie was at tournies I think but just randomly uses wi-fi now.

I can't wait to meet you too but I need to find work 1st

lol GL, remember, Shaya is a top player.

Does that mean the day i beat shaya is the day I become a good player?

 

[Karnu]

Does that mean the day i beat shaya is the day I become a good player?

You may, but then you got to beat me, Australia's best player

Spoiler

lol I wish

 

[Luco]

You may, but then you got to beat me, Australia's best player

Spoiler

lol I wish

:D

Hope you and jamwa will be able to come down to a boost sometime soon. I'm out to the desert on the 5th of August but i might be back in early october so maybe you'll have enough money to drive down or fly down by that stage.

Also, if you're looking for a job, I suggest start somewhere like maccas and work your way up. they say you are three times less likely to be employed in a decent job if you're already unemployed (and that only gets worse as the months or even years of waiting trickle on, imagine having to explain to your possible employer that you haven't gotten a job in three years!) but maccas and woolies are willing to take like anybody. From there on just work up.

 

[KassandraNova]

Kassandra!

Long time no talk since MLG DC where you me and Loli just hung out for a bit. ^^

Yes it has been awhile! I miss mlg events and meeting everyone! That was so fun.

Also yay! I have found fun in this game again. I played Lucas for awhile last night. It's like everytime I recover to the stage it's an achievement. Lmao

 

[Luco]

Yes it has been awhile! I miss mlg events and meeting everyone! That was so fun.

Also yay! I have found fun in this game again. I played Lucas for awhile last night. It's like everytime I recover to the stage it's an achievement. Lmao

I think I know you from my early days here; I remember that sig.

But yeah Lucas and Ness are two of the most unique characters in the game. Their upB is unlike any other and they are both mid weights with heavy weight-like power in some moves (Lucas with upB and ness with PK Flash). they're also the only characters i know of that can heal hp in competitive play. Actually that's not true but Mr G&W's number 7 is rare enough so that the (small) healing effect of the apple is basically nullified.

 

[Jamwa]

Hiiiii pal

Also Jamwa the Ness gif in your sig, it's adorable

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

I'm stealing these.

 

[Luco]

Okay guys so who's going to whobo? I'm looking forward to watching you guys surprise the world....

 

[Jamwa]

I'm stealing these.

unfortunately theres no lucas lick gifs
but claus in the dandelion field is awesome

...im getting sad now

:D happy - this one would be cool if it was smaller, but iono how to edit gifs

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

Okay guys so who's going to whobo? I'm looking forward to watching you guys surprise the world....

I'm the only one I know of that's going. PF and Mekos said they weren't going, and none of the other Lucas mains said anything about Whobo. So you're just gonna have me to look forward to (: (: (:

unfortunately theres no lucas lick gifs
but claus in the dandelion field is awesome

...im getting sad now

:D happy - this one would be cool if it was smaller, but iono how to edit gifs

Lmaoooo this gif, why have I never seen these besides the one in your sig? Also can't you just downsize it in Paint? Or is that different for gifs

 

[Jamwa]

it doesnt work

also please upload many matches, ur lucas is so flashy

 

[#HBC | J]

Yes it has been awhile! I miss mlg events and meeting everyone! That was so fun.

Also yay! I have found fun in this game again. I played Lucas for awhile last night. It's like everytime I recover to the stage it's an achievement. Lmao

Yes they were! And I know that feeling of achievement haha. You should totally stay with Lucas.

===========================

Sorry for this random blurb, but I got to thinking about something due to something posted elsewhere.

I just got a huge reminiscent/nostalgia wave of like 2-3 years ago of these boards thanks to a post in the Ness boards and I don't know but it is really semi-upsetting how like nothing "new" game-play wise is ever talked about in here or anything. Plus all the oldies are gone for the most part and never even post anymore. I also can't believe it's almost been 2+ years since I began posting here as my first boards really.

I started out knowing nothing at all about Lucas and now I know pretty much every single detail about this character down to the frame data. I know how Lucas does against every character in the game and it's just wow the change. I've never been a top player, but I've always been a researcher in terms of Lucas to help out in any way I can. However, now even I'm starting to get better with my Lucas.

I remember staying up late at night writing MUs for the original MU chart instead of the like "exports" I also remember doing the Stage exports and being the discussion leader of this place and doing my random cleaning sprees to make sure things looked nice. Or just discusing things with rPSI. This room has seen it's fair share of mods like Levitas(who I doubt anyone of the newer people know at all) and rPSI and then after him we had me as a DL for a while then after the DLs got canned it got traded off to like TB and then Krys but I don't know if there was anyone between that time period since I stopped brawl for a bit.

I even remember when no one even knew who FAE was before he started to do well. xD I also remember before Mekos was big too and all there really was actively was Pink and Nasty.

I also am reminded of all the times me and a few of the other Lucas mains had to debate other boards that Lucas wasn't that terrible of a character and deserved his spot at the bottom of mid-tier and now other people are finally seeing it is really cool. It's funny cuz we used to joke about it and now it's like an actual reality.

Anyways, the Lucas boards were always a "dead" place and even now it isn't the most active place on SWF but still it has that little spark of energy left in it in a different sense. It's a lot brighter I guess. However, I know like not one of the new people in this thread or the skype chat so it's really different for me to not know any of these Lucas mains/posters.

Now I apologize for the little history lesson/ramble but it was just something that came to my mind at this hour at night. It also makes me want to focus on something. Lately, I have been trying new characters just for fun, but I'm going to stop that.

I'm going to focus my full effort into making my Lucas better than it ever has and learn even more than I already know about this character. I don't know where this drive is coming from but it is something I want to do. I'm also going to get to work in these boards more so if you see me poking around, don't be afraid to hit me up on Skype or something.

Anyways apologize for the little big post. ^^"

@Mekos: I need to talk to you about Lucas doubles more. I have some ideas and the like and I know you created that one thread but I want to expand Lucas Doubles train of thought a bit more.

@FAE: I also need to talk to you a bit about your technique sometime because you are by far the flashiest Lucas so I may hit you up later.

@Pink: I need your help for some MU prowess since you have the largest knowledge of Lucas' MUs in the competitive sense and by far my favorite Lucas style to watch play and the learn from.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

MKay. Willing to help.

I need to learn two things and I'll be TONS better than I was before (Since I've been practicing again).

Just figuring out how to land, and how to get off the ledge.

 

[#HBC | J]

Thank you so very much Pink. Now I can guess you have some thoughts on the MUs that are a bit well...not very accurate in terms of fighting and also have your views on them.

Also landing/getting off the ledge is something I believe Lucas mains have trouble with in general because if we land incorrectly it can cost us dearly and in some MUs, an entire stock *dependent on percentage*.

Now what exactly are you having trouble with figuring out how to land?

Getting off the ledge is something that is tricky since the only option to stay on the ledge at camp a teency bit is PKT but even then, it's really small and insignificant. With getting off the ledge, it depends soley from what I've realized on reading the player and figuring out what the best option is frame-wise in terms of moves. Dair is something to consider but it's priority is weak and depends on the height of the character you are facing. Hmm, I'll think about this one a bit more and look at some past threads.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

What MUs?

and yeah. I just wonder if I should focus more on dustersliding. or like.

Zap jumping off the ledge idk. My choices now suck.

 

[#HBC | J]

-2:
-1:

These ones imparticular have me staring at them with an odd eye because they just feel wrong.

@Ledge: Dustersliding is an option I could see holding weight in it. Zap Jumping on the other hand seems to leave you with little options and even a harder choice of landing back on the stage with an opponent ready for you to come back down.

Maybe I can dig up some ATs to help your dilemma but the solution seems a little simple, but not if you get what I mean?

 

[Jamwa]

Fae's gotta teach us his magnet reversals + zap jump offstage shenanigans to recover haha >:D
how do you get so much momentum backwards from a zap jump? is it b-stick only or can i c-bounce it?

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

Good read J, it really brought me back. I think I have to readd you on Skype sometime because I got a new account. And I'm more than willing to help, also I might not be the flashiest Lucas anymore because I dropped Bstick for just normal Cstick. I still do like Zair Jumps and stuff between stocks, but I mainly just dropped Bstick because I would use techs unnecessarily and I'd get punished sooo badly for it. Since I dropped it, I've been doing noticeably better in tourneys.

@PF: Dustersliding is a really good thing to invest time into practicing. 80% of the time you do it it's quick enough that you can get a quick Ftilt or grab or roll (anything, really) before they can react. Just consider doing that instead of anytime you want you just do a normal getup.

Press back off the ledge and Zair, then drop down double jump PK Fire onstage catches a lot of people off guard.

Drop down PSI Magnet, double jump to airdodged zair lands you on the stage almost immediately because of the height-cancelling properties. Ftilt, Nair, and Utilt are pretty good to use out of it. It's not quite as safe as Dustersliding, but it's definately good to use on occassions.

There's always just waiting/using PKT on the ledge just to see what they're doing.

Press back on the ledge and Zair, fall down and then Zap Jump up, the PK Fire will usually hit them since it's so unexpected.

Press back on the ledge and Zair, fall down towards the stage, then wavebounce a Zap Jump so it pushes you away from the stage. If the PK Fire hits them then it's safe to just reverse Magnet Pull onstage. If not, go back to the ledge.

Ledgehop into an immediate wavebounced PK Fire, then reverse Magnet Pull towards the stage. You'll still have your double jump, and you don't land on the stage from the Magnet Pull. It ends like a foot above the stage so you can double jump Dair to cover beneath you as you move onstage. If you Magnet Pull so Lucas is facing away from the stage, a spaced FF Fair or Uair is good.

Press down on the ledge, PSI Magnet, then Zair Jump, it autocancels into a Dusterslide so you can Ftilt/Fair right after.

If they're right by the ledge, drop down double jump Nair is the best option. If they're near the ledge, just a little bit close to the edge, Fair/Dair/PKT are good. Any other distance you can usually get away with Dustersliding.

Those are just some ideas. They don't work every time obviously, they're just good to know so whenever you feel it's right to use them then you'll just know the options. But yeah all in all, Dustersliding should be his main way to get onstage, it's almost always the safest way and it's really hard to react to. Just make sure you're able to do it consistently or else you'll find yourself in a worse position than the ledge (hovering near the opponent with zair still out or the zair won't regrab the ledge and you'll fall low for a bit, and you'll have to either double jump PKT or Zap Jump to recover).

EDIT: Jamwa you can either Bstick it or Cbounce it, both give the huge wavebouncing push. Anything you can do with Bstick you can do with Cbouncing, it's just one extra input. You could even wavebounce the Zap Jump with default controls, it's just a ton harder to do than with Bsticking or Cbouncing

 

[#HBC | J]

I just re-added ya on Skype on my new account. I am very happy you two are so willing to jump into this and help.

Reading your post has given me some new ideas from ledge play in terms of mix-ups which I can see being fruitful in my play. I find it weird because I feel that ever since I keep Tap-Jump on with Lucas, I have been doing a lot better because I love being in the air and having that control and having mix-ups there.

We really need to discuss Counter-pick stages and our best neutrals to fight on again to re-hash some of that.

Question: What do you guys prefer? Fighting in the air or the ground? I prefer the air with ground mix-ups.

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

I've always used tap jump on :D I've never played with it off before haha.

As far as playstyles, I like to just stay on the ground and use mostly short hopped stuff (except for Dair ofc). I play either really slow or really fast depending on what character I'm fighting, or depending on what I feel like doing

 

[#HBC | J]

For some reason I prefer being faster than slower in most MUs because the second I begin to slow-down I lose track of framing and make a few too many mistakes.

 

[Esotera]

Good read J, it really brought me back. I think I have to readd you on Skype sometime because I got a new account. And I'm more than willing to help, also I might not be the flashiest Lucas anymore because I dropped Bstick for just normal Cstick. I still do like Zair Jumps and stuff between stocks, but I mainly just dropped Bstick because I would use techs unnecessarily and I'd get punished sooo badly for it. Since I dropped it, I've been doing noticeably better in tourneys.

@PF: Dustersliding is a really good thing to invest time into practicing. 80% of the time you do it it's quick enough that you can get a quick Ftilt or grab or roll (anything, really) before they can react. Just consider doing that instead of anytime you want you just do a normal getup.

Press back off the ledge and Zair, then drop down double jump PK Fire onstage catches a lot of people off guard.

Drop down PSI Magnet, double jump to airdodged zair lands you on the stage almost immediately because of the height-cancelling properties. Ftilt, Nair, and Utilt are pretty good to use out of it. It's not quite as safe as Dustersliding, but it's definately good to use on occassions.

There's always just waiting/using PKT on the ledge just to see what they're doing.

Press back on the ledge and Zair, fall down and then Zap Jump up, the PK Fire will usually hit them since it's so unexpected.

Press back on the ledge and Zair, fall down towards the stage, then wavebounce a Zap Jump so it pushes you away from the stage. If the PK Fire hits them then it's safe to just reverse Magnet Pull onstage. If not, go back to the ledge.

Ledgehop into an immediate wavebounced PK Fire, then reverse Magnet Pull towards the stage. You'll still have your double jump, and you don't land on the stage from the Magnet Pull. It ends like a foot above the stage so you can double jump Dair to cover beneath you as you move onstage. If you Magnet Pull so Lucas is facing away from the stage, a spaced FF Fair or Uair is good.

Press down on the ledge, PSI Magnet, then Zair Jump, it autocancels into a Dusterslide so you can Ftilt/Fair right after.

If they're right by the ledge, drop down double jump Nair is the best option. If they're near the ledge, just a little bit close to the edge, Fair/Dair/PKT are good. Any other distance you can usually get away with Dustersliding.

Those are just some ideas. They don't work every time obviously, they're just good to know so whenever you feel it's right to use them then you'll just know the options. But yeah all in all, Dustersliding should be his main way to get onstage, it's almost always the safest way and it's really hard to react to. Just make sure you're able to do it consistently or else you'll find yourself in a worse position than the ledge (hovering near the opponent with zair still out or the zair won't regrab the ledge and you'll fall low for a bit, and you'll have to either double jump PKT or Zap Jump to recover).

EDIT: Jamwa you can either Bstick it or Cbounce it, both give the huge wavebouncing push. Anything you can do with Bstick you can do with Cbouncing, it's just one extra input. You could even wavebounce the Zap Jump with default controls, it's just a ton harder to do than with Bsticking or Cbouncing

Most useful post in awhile. Thanks fae.

 

[Jamwa]

tap jump can be annoying for me, the only use i see for it is zair-footstall cancelling lol.
oh and maybe retreating fairs.
but yeah lucas is all about the aerial reads and punishes(not so much approaches), ground game is good when you get in your opponents face and the hard reads start happening.
i reckon u-air juggling is the most satisfying thing ever

 

[Karnu]

I turn tap jump off .

 

[Luco]

Yes they were! And I know that feeling of achievement haha. You should totally stay with Lucas.

===========================

Sorry for this random blurb, but I got to thinking about something due to something posted elsewhere.

I just got a huge reminiscent/nostalgia wave of like 2-3 years ago of these boards thanks to a post in the Ness boards and I don't know but it is really semi-upsetting how like nothing "new" game-play wise is ever talked about in here or anything. Plus all the oldies are gone for the most part and never even post anymore. I also can't believe it's almost been 2+ years since I began posting here as my first boards really.

I started out knowing nothing at all about Lucas and now I know pretty much every single detail about this character down to the frame data. I know how Lucas does against every character in the game and it's just wow the change. I've never been a top player, but I've always been a researcher in terms of Lucas to help out in any way I can. However, now even I'm starting to get better with my Lucas.

I remember staying up late at night writing MUs for the original MU chart instead of the like "exports" I also remember doing the Stage exports and being the discussion leader of this place and doing my random cleaning sprees to make sure things looked nice. Or just discusing things with rPSI. This room has seen it's fair share of mods like Levitas(who I doubt anyone of the newer people know at all) and rPSI and then after him we had me as a DL for a while then after the DLs got canned it got traded off to like TB and then Krys but I don't know if there was anyone between that time period since I stopped brawl for a bit.

I even remember when no one even knew who FAE was before he started to do well. xD I also remember before Mekos was big too and all there really was actively was Pink and Nasty.

I also am reminded of all the times me and a few of the other Lucas mains had to debate other boards that Lucas wasn't that terrible of a character and deserved his spot at the bottom of mid-tier and now other people are finally seeing it is really cool. It's funny cuz we used to joke about it and now it's like an actual reality.

Anyways, the Lucas boards were always a "dead" place and even now it isn't the most active place on SWF but still it has that little spark of energy left in it in a different sense. It's a lot brighter I guess. However, I know like not one of the new people in this thread or the skype chat so it's really different for me to not know any of these Lucas mains/posters.

Now I apologize for the little history lesson/ramble but it was just something that came to my mind at this hour at night. It also makes me want to focus on something. Lately, I have been trying new characters just for fun, but I'm going to stop that.

I'm going to focus my full effort into making my Lucas better than it ever has and learn even more than I already know about this character. I don't know where this drive is coming from but it is something I want to do. I'm also going to get to work in these boards more so if you see me poking around, don't be afraid to hit me up on Skype or something.

Anyways apologize for the little big post. ^^"

@Mekos: I need to talk to you about Lucas doubles more. I have some ideas and the like and I know you created that one thread but I want to expand Lucas Doubles train of thought a bit more.

@FAE: I also need to talk to you a bit about your technique sometime because you are by far the flashiest Lucas so I may hit you up later.

@Pink: I need your help for some MU prowess since you have the largest knowledge of Lucas' MUs in the competitive sense and by far my favorite Lucas style to watch play and the learn from.

I vaguely remember you, J, from my firsts posts here.

But I similarly remember when the Lucas boards was only held up by random inside jokes that really weren't funny. Once or twice I had to let Chuee know that this thread was dying and he'd respond with "I'm on it.". Since our recent influx of lucas mains and our 'little' victory at sktar our spark has truly shone. Many people are agreeing that Lucas in Low Tier at this point in time is actually extremely questionable.

Another thing that is not often noted in our meta-game discussions. Lucas is quite a few places higher on the japanese tier list than he is on ours. I also have a feeling their meta-game is a tad more advanced than ours. Just food for thought.

Anyway, coming back on topic, I love how the Lucas boards are at the moment. It's like entering a golden age, or if you have read Game of Thrones, the long summer. We will shine again.

 

[Jimmy?]

Japan also has Pikachu only two spots above Lucas. Kinda cray cray imo to have Pikachu like twenty-second on a tier list, lawl.

Though there's definitely an argument for Lucas higher than where he is now, I'm not so sure I'd turn to Japan for evidence of that if their metagame so different from ours that the character with one of the gayest grabs in the game is where a hell of a lot of people on these boards consider pretty trashy.

 

[#HBC | J]

I remember a long time ago bringing up Japan's meta-game and where Lucas is placed on their tier list and he is a lot more respectable character in their meta-game.

Also me and FAE talked about the ZSS MU and believe to have it figured out for the most part, however, I will save that for when I get the ZSS export up. I may just condense it into a write-up. I'm working on Olimar now since that is who we will be talking about next.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

-2:
-1:

These ones imparticular have me staring at them with an odd eye because they just feel wrong.

@Ledge: Dustersliding is an option I could see holding weight in it. Zap Jumping on the other hand seems to leave you with little options and even a harder choice of landing back on the stage with an opponent ready for you to come back down.

Maybe I can dig up some ATs to help your dilemma but the solution seems a little simple, but not if you get what I mean?

- 1

There. Thats better. loool. Maybe Olimar could be 0. (I've been playing Logic religiously lately) Uhm. Maybe Bowser at 0. I'm still a firm believer of Yoshi bodying Lucas. but w/e. Pikachu could be -2. The rest seems right :l

.

O ty FAE. I go practice.

 

[#HBC | J]

Thank you Pink. Now that's better. I feel Bowser/Kirby/Oli are closer to 0s than -1s Then again, I feel we beat Bowser with a +1. Pika I don't get -2/-1 because he seems even. Rest I can live with.

However, I remember NL saying in the past we have the tools to beat ICs or at least go even and after playing ICs more, I definitely see that.

 

[KassandraNova]

God why is Lucas so bad. :'(
Poor kid. <_<

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

God why is Lucas so bad. :'(
Poor kid. <_<

Not even </3

 

[Esotera]

- 1

There. Thats better. loool. Maybe Olimar could be 0. (I've been playing Logic religiously lately) Uhm. Maybe Bowser at 0. I'm still a firm believer of Yoshi bodying Lucas. but w/e. Pikachu could be -2. The rest seems right :l

.

O ty FAE. I go practice.

Wait, you think pika has an advantage over us?

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

God why is Lucas so bad. :'(
Poor kid. <_<

:[

Not even </3

He pretty bad. :[

Wait, you think pika has an advantage over us?

Mhmm.

 

[Esotera]

:[

He pretty bad. :[


Mhmm.

I've played pika like 5x more than any other matchup... I really think it's even. Why do you think -1?

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

HAVE YOU PLAYED ESAM?

It could be even. I only play the MU when I play him once every
National/Xanadu

 

[Esotera]

HAVE YOU PLAYED ESAM?

It could be even. I only play the MU when I play him once every
National/Xanadu

Haha, no I haven't... but I still think its even

 

[Jimmy?]

I've played a Pika who used to be a part of the scene (PRed in NorCal, though he's been out since I think Apex 2010) and he says he doesn't think the Pika/Lucas matchup is nearly as bad as a -2. he hasn't said whether he finds it even or -1, but I think I'd have to agree that it's not a matchup I'm particularly afraid of.

Even if he bodies me every time. :C

 

[#HBC | J]

Pika is even in my opinion. Pika does not counter Lucas which is what -2 suggests.

I'd settle for -1 but overall it's an even MU and it really depends on which player can outplay the other.

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

Hey J remember the conversation I had with you earlier about the panel or whatever it was last year? Most of this corruption is my doing ): I didn't know what to do!

 

[Jimmy?]

When I play him, I don't really notice anything that suggests he's got a huge advantage over me. Most of it is just him outplaying me since he's the one who taught me how to play like a year ago. I feel like it's pretty even, but I'm not sure if I can reliably judge my experience in the match up when I'm always being constantly outplayed, haha.