The Grab Release

[PKNintendo]

My Marth vs Ness input. Marths CG is one trick that keeps on giving. Essentially grab isn't what your worry about, nor the jabs. It's the smash at the end! At 0%, you can Spin your control stick and flick the
c-stick to exit the grab quickly. (I do this alot) my problems is Marth's downsmash. It's 222too fast, and 222too strong. It KO's early, and kills the matchup for me.

EX: 0 for both players.

N=Ness
M=Michael jackson
----=Stage


N__________M_
Marth will start out with a few aerials, mixes it up and deals 15%-30% to Ness. Ness uses a Fair e.c.t.

_______N M_______
At this range, Marth can grab Ness. Once the rapist grabs you, expect 20-30% (170% is just ridiculous) from the jabs themselves. But smash at the end hurts alot. Why?

15-30% from the aerials+the grab ****. 20-30%+ the smash. Ness can potentially end up at 60%.
Seriously, if Ness just had the grab release problem, it would still cause hell.

Common misconceptions.

It won't deal 200%. ever. (in one secession of the **** fest)
CPU's can escape pretty fast, but they do not DI from the escape, and thus Marth barely moves from the CG. A human moves back, and thus Marth inches slightly more forward forward for the regrab.

In the end, the grab helps the Matchup, but 2 things **** it.

Marth himself is just hell for Ness. Ness can't deal with rapists man.
the grab release down smash! ACK!

Thats why I HATE facing Marth with Wario. Marth can grab release FSMASH WARIO! ACK!

 

[OmegaXF]

Well I didn't say all of that,YOU did. I just said you should ask the names since the Ness is stating that ALL Marths do Grab Release on Ness/Lucas, which is obviously not true (Just look at the post in this thread.)
I also stated that most people play with the mentallity to win and do whatever is nesscarsay and if your playing someone like that it's best to play a different character and if you don't then prepare to play a game with little mistakes otherwise it will cost you.

Think before you post right......

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Getting a grab on a good Ness/Lucas is more difficult than it sounds, so most good Marths will actually try to fight the match normally until you can find the opening for the grab.

QFT. I think this is true so I like to keep my shield out a lot and grab if they touch me with anything unsafe.

I usually link it to dsmash at high %'s.

I love this, I use Dsmash as my finisher against the Earthbounders.

 

[cutter]

its limited in Texas tournaments anyway, to 5 regrabs.

i always just follow up with dsmash.

edit: stfu about what to call it...

::Banned Techs::

IC's infinite chain grab. You must release(throw away/smash/release to re-grab) after 5 consecutive grabs(nana grab counts towards the five).

DeDeDe's Infinite grab. You must release(throw away/smash/release to re-grab) after 5 consecutive grabs(only on the 5 characters this works on).

Infinite release grabs(marth, wario.....ect). You must release(throw away/smash) after 5 consecutive grabs.

Infinite wall grabs. You must release(throw away/smash/release to re-grab) after 5 consecutive grabs.

Locks. laser lock/jab lock/ice block lock. You can only keep the foe in a lock for 5 hits....then u must stop.

...yeah -_-

 

[prOAPC]

Locks. laser lock/jab lock/ice block lock. You can only keep the foe in a lock for 5 hits....then u must stop.

Lucas only needs 3 dtilts and a fsmash to kill anybody after a jab lock

 

[Neon Ness]

I hadn't realized that they banned all of this in tournaments. It makes sense, though. Just trying to keep stuff fair... As fair as we can get with Meta Knight around, anyway. One thing I don't understand is why they allow 5 consecutive grabs, though... They shouldn't allow any consecutive grabs/hits in infinite grab techniques/locks. Seems like that would maximize "fairness".

I wonder if Emblem Lord will make a guest appearance in this thread. I think I read that he or she has the one of the best Marths. I'm sure they'd have something important to input.

 

[BacklashMarth]

I hadn't realized that they banned all of this in tournaments. It makes sense, though. Just trying to keep stuff fair... As fair as we can get with Meta Knight around, anyway. One thing I don't understand is why they allow 5 consecutive grabs, though... They shouldn't allow any consecutive grabs/hits in infinite grab techniques/locks. Seems like that would maximize "fairness".

I wonder if Emblem Lord will make a guest appearance in this thread. I think I read that he or she has the one of the best Marths. I'm sure they'd have something important to input.

Rofl. Are u trying to get flammed? Saying "(insert random marth user here) has the best marth" is just asking to bring on all sorts of arguments. While EL may not be the best marth around, he is quite knowledgeable about marth overall.

Oh, and to address what u said about "fairness" i think u are sort of correct. 5 grabs is a bit much. If the game wasnt so poorly made then a person would be able to get maybe 1 or 2 regrabs at max. However, 5 grabs allows a person to abuse a disadvantage a character has w/o completely destroying the matchup.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm a man.

Though I do look like a girl somewhat.

Anyway, everything that I would have said has already been said.

Also I play for honor. My honor as a warrior as well as my opponent's. I don't hold back when I play because I see at as disrespect. Age, gender, low tier, high tier, infinite or no it makes no difference to me.

When we play I come at you full force with every intention of obliterating you. So if you play me and pick an Earthbounder expect to get CGed across the stage and back.

 

[Brinzy]

To be honest, I don't even know why people even try Ness and Lucas vs. Marth anymore...

Actually, EL, do you happen to be free? I want to play a good Marth, even if it's over WiFi. (Not with an Earthbounder though, lol.)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Not at my house right now and my internet connection has been ******** for the last month or so.

 

[Neon Ness]

Rofl. Are u trying to get flammed? Saying "(insert random marth user here) has the best marth" is just asking to bring on all sorts of arguments. While EL may not be the best marth around, he is quite knowledgeable about marth overall.

Well, if you look at the post, I actually never said "the best", I said "one of the best". Regardless, I'll refrain from making such statements in the future. Regarding Successor of Raphael's statement, I think people still use the Earthbounders against Marth because they don't want to be bullied out of their mains. That's how I feel anyway. I'd enter an all Marth tournament with Lucas if I could, wouldn't bother me, knowing I'd come in dead last. I guess it's sorta the same reason people used Mewtwo, Bowser, etc. in Melee against a Fox/Falco. The odds and statistics say you'll lose, but really. I think it's more fun to use who you want to, against all the odds. I prefer to keep trying, because I believe one day I can find a way to overcome these obstacles with Lucas or Ness.

 

[Brinzy]

There's a certain amount of excitement that can be obtained from that admittedly. Wooo, using Zelda only in Melee tournies!

But... to me, the loss would be just getting pwned by the best characters as in a straight match with no BS grabs like this. When I get cg'd/infinited like in this situation, I no longer feel the thrill of having the odds stacked against me - I just feel like I'm wasting my time...

 

[Umby]

To be honest, I don't even know why people even try Ness and Lucas vs. Marth anymore...

Because the matchup isn't a complete wreck for the Earthbounders, especially not for Ness. There's also the rampant phrase "Don't get grabbed." to consider.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

About that so called "rampant phrase" it can be hard, it's just that Marth has to use grab to punish instead of his normal punishers.

 

[Gaussis]

CG is broken, but not exaggeratedly broken. Also, to clear things up, Ness doesn't fall to any other grab-release issue except for the following so far:

Ike: Grab-release to jab
Wario (pending): Grab-release to fsmash

*Note: I'm still in the beginning phase of this thing since some people *cough Raphael cough* motivated me to research this. I will finish the list for anyone to view except not here of course...

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Yes but anyone can exploit it with Marth... It doesn't take any skill except for the original grab.

 

[Dxt XXII]

At a tourny I fought a marth as lucas, and he didn't deathgrab me once. But then I have to worry about 20 million G&Ws. The Lucas and Ness boards make it seem worse that it really is. IC are the ones with real broken grabs and infinites, and nobody really complains.

 

[Gaussis]

Uh, no we (Ness board) don't. I don't know about Lucas.

 

[Brinzy]

Because the matchup isn't a complete wreck for the Earthbounders, especially not for Ness.

LOL, in what alternate universe? Marth destroys Ness, period.

 

[Blackbelt]

To be honest, I don't even know why people even try Ness and Lucas vs. Marth anymore...

Because (for Lucas at least) you can still counterpick Brinstar or Norfair and make it so the CG isn't an issue at all.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

^2-3 grabs=>dsmash at high percents.

 

[Siyro]

Last time i checked my Marth can beat Ness and Lucas without the grab release. So I might do a few grabs just simulate a chain grab but I do not usually keep it going really long.

 

[crazn137]

Like solid said, Marth doesn't need a long stage to make the CG deadly. The fact that it sets up for a guaranteed dsmash solves Marth's problem of not having any safe kill moves.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Ya, the dsmash is deadly on its own, that is how I kill the Earthbounders if I can grab them.

 

[Neon Ness]

Ya, the dsmash is deadly on its own, that is how I kill the Earthbounders if I can grab them.

Hmm... Interesting. It sounds as if the biggest problems for us against Marth are grabbing in general and the downsmash. The next time I fight Marth, I'm gonna try to stay aerial more and see how that works, and maybe try to play on Norfair... Well, actually Marth's pretty aerial, too, so that might also be a problem.

I guess I have to decide if it's a better idea to challenge Marth's air game or face certain death on the ground. Probably the former...

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Marth has great aerial mobility and is just great in the air period.

 

[Siyro]

Marth is a tough challenge for Ness and Lucas, no doubt about it. Personally i'm not sure what advice i can give to help you, To take on a Marth in aerial game is generally difficult.

That last statement reminds me of when I had a Marth ditto battle where every time my friend and I advanced then used a fair we both got hit and flew backwards. But thats not important to this thread.

 

[takeurlife2]

Marth has great aerial mobility and is just great in the air period.

lol actually marth has pretty poor mobility, just solid attacks that come out relatively fast.

wario has mobility.

 

[Emblem Lord]

No.

Snake has poor mobility.

Marth is ranked 12th in aerial mobility. His mobility is good.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

No.

Snake has poor mobility.

Marth is ranked 12th in aerial mobility. His mobility is good.

Thank you EL. And Wario does have great mobility. Can you post the whole list EL?

 

[PKNintendo]

IIRC Wario had the 3rd best aerial mobility in the game.

 

[IDK]

isnt it restricted to a certain amount in a row in some tourneys tho?

 

[ScrewTheRules]

If i see a opportunity i will take it. ~Azure

P.S. the grab release is banned in some torneys due to it "stopping the flow of the match and anyone can do it" from what i heard.

 

[legion598]

grab release has its place in my style like any other move so i would only do it out of shield grabs and places were its open whats really funny tho is grab release infinite>dolphin slash xD

 

[ZHMT]

IIRC Wario had the 3rd best aerial mobility in the game.

Jiggly and GAW are above Wario? Just a guess, I dont know much about this stuff.

 

[cman]

Jiggly and GAW are above Wario? Just a guess, I dont know much about this stuff.

Thought squirtle was second? I don't remember G&W's being superb.

 

[AzNsAnTaGiN]

It's Yoshi>Jigglypuff> everyone else.

Edit: Ripping this off SmashWiki. I pray hope it's accurate.

1. Yoshi
2. Jigglypuff
3. Wario
4. Wolf O' Donnell, Captain Falcon
5. Sonic The Hedgehog, Donkey Kong
6. Lucas, Bowser
7. Squirtle
8. Mr. Game & Watch, Marth
9. Zero Suit Samus
10. Charizard
11. Zelda
12. Samus
13. Lucario
14. Ness, Mario
15. Solid Snake
16. Toon Link, Ike
17. Pikachu, Peach
18. R.O.B, Pit, Fox McCloud, Falco Lombardi
19. Ganondorf
20. Kirby
21. Sheik
22. Olimar
23. Diddy Kong
24. Link
25. Meta Knight
26. Ivysaur, Ice Climbers
27. Luigi
28. King Dedede