The Genesis 4 Discussion Thread

[Fenny]

Run it back they said

It was a fluke they said

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

FOW and Shaky's placement isn't disappointing at all. You just refuse to acknowledge the limitations of Ness.

What exactly were you expecting looking at their brackets? Pit, Rosa, Sonic, ZSS, Cloud, Corrin, M2, Sheik, MM, G&W and possibly more. Most of these characters being backed by top level players and most of them are really bad MU's for Ness.

You still seem to have this unrelenting hope for this character. Ness isn't good. Accept it. This isn't an anime. FOW and Shaky aren't going to unlock some new power every time they face a stronger opponent and even if they were fighting for a 1,000 friends it's not going to make Ness any better...unless one of those friends is Sakurai...then it's a maybe

I don't have some false hope for Ness idk where you got that from. FOW and Shaky are just really good players overall and could make top 32's with most of the roster if they wanted to and I know they can do it with Ness as well, that's all I was commenting on.

I just don't have this ridiculous doom and gloom about the character you act like he's a low tier. I'm well aware he isn't solo viable and he has plenty of flaws but I also know both of those guys could had done a lot better regardless of a couple bad MUs.

 

[chaos11011]

No wonder Dabuz lived Monkey Flip at 199

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Yeah so after that last match I feel even more convinced.

What's amazing is like Zack's only what around 15-16 years old? He probably hasn't even reached his absolute prime yet and he is already managed to beat players such as Dabuz, ANTI and now Komo
A garunteed 5th place at worst in a tourney as big as this is going to be big for him. Capt.Zack is definetly a player I can see goin places in the future.

 

[Lord Dio]

Oh mannnnnn I'm laughing so hard.......
Komo kinda downloaded Zack and got game 2, then had such a good lead game 3, and I had to reload twitch right as Zack got the ladder combo, so I missed that...
then there was game 4....man, zack was just like "You think we cheating? Okay, I'll kick your *** super hard now"
*looks at previous comments*
Ha! I even predicted it with a possibility!
And then komo walks away when Zack offers the handshake...oh man...genesis 4 has been such a ride.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Unfortunate way for Komo to go out, play an entire set along with zero/dabuz at .9 ratio and only get to play the last game. That makes next to no sense, if time is actually an issue then play it off stream for both those sets.

 

[Gunla]

EDIT: Does not seem to be as clear as once thought.

Unfortunately an outright grimey set overall.

 

[|RK|]

Y A R E
Y A R E
D A Z E


You better runback ZeRo vs. Dabuz too what kind of weak excuse

I love both players, but ZeRo vs Dabuz was A) much more dominant, and B) the launch rate would have benefitted Dabuz significantly more (considering what he lived).

 

[NotLiquid]

Unfortunate way for Komo to go out, play an entire set along with zero/dabuz at .9 ratio and only get to play the last game. That makes next to no sense, if time is actually an issue then play it off stream for both those sets.

Bear said that they checked the ratios before the ZeRo and Dabuz game and it was set to 1.0x.

Saj is speculating on Twitter that .9x hurts Bayonetta more than it does Sonic. Would explain why Komo seemed to DI out of so many Bayo combos... but then again Komo missed quite a bit of easy spin-dash confirms that would have likely been affected by the kb too.

EDIT: Dabuz is certain that the knockback wasn't right during his set.

 

[Sinister Slush]

It's a conspiracy.

 

[ARGHETH]

Ally 3-0 Abadango

 

[freypies]

Dabuz just said that the launch rate was indeed 0.9 in his game as well...

https://twitter.com/DabuzSenpai/status/823296452768120832

Damage ratio was different during my match...

— Liquid | Dabuz (@DabuzSenpai) January 22, 2017

 

[Fenny]

Bear said that they checked the ratios before the ZeRo and Dabuz game and it was set to 1.0x.

Saj is speculating on Twitter that .9x hurts Bayonetta more than it does Sonic.

It doesn't benefit either, both of them lose most of their regular conversions on 0.9, and both have an even harder time killing than they usually do

 

[Lord Dio]

Just when we thought nothing stranger could happen, the runbakc happens.
I honestly wonder what G4 will be remembered for most now, bad streams, ZeRo losing a set to a Duck Hunt, that same DH getting a very narrow win over zinoto, the komo knockback situation.....

Another thing I wonder, is that if it had been at .9 since match 1 (as dabuz claims), why only redo game 4? Two whole sets have been done in .9 knockback....

 

[NotLiquid]

このゲームに対する情熱全てを失いました

— 古森霧 (@komorikiri_Ace) January 22, 2017

Komo is incredibly upset about all of this.

 

[ReroRero]

On the 4th match, Zack edgeguarded Komo for days, I felt it was weird

But who changed the ratio ?

 

[my_T]

33rd with solo Ness actually sounds pretty good. It's a pretty respectable placing considering how unkind the post DLC meta is towards the character. Even 49th honestly isn't that bad.

The placement makes their performance look prettier than what it really is. The only credible players Ness took down at this tournament was DarkShad (Shaky), 8bitMan (Shaky), and Zenyou (Lax?). DarkShad and 8bitMan are good wins but nothing amazing. Zenyou is just inconsistent as usual.

FOW had little chance of doing anything. Pit and Corrin poop on Ness pretty hard, especially Corrin. Then he get's sent to losers and has to deal with Sonic which is a really dumb MU.

Wasn't expecting anything from S1

Shaky had an okay losers run. He managed to dodge bad MU's at top level until he got to Marss.

I see your point though; 33rd and 49th is a decent placing for a character like Ness

 

[freypies]

Elegant thinks that it's harder to escape Bayo's hits at 0.9 launchrate

"it's actually harder to get out of bayos combos with that ratio, and i think Komo messed up spindash to back air cause of that"

it's actually harder to get out of bayos combos with that ratio, and i think Komo messed up spindash to back air cause of that

— Elegant (@Elegant_Matt) January 22, 2017

 

[Nidtendofreak]

They should still redo any matches that even might have had the ratio changed. There's going to be too many "what ifs" hanging over these tournament results unless they do that. Nobody will be able to take them 100% seriously.

 

[DE235]

I would understand if Komo took a break from the game after that. I hope he still plays the game after this.

 

[Lord Dio]

このゲームに対する情熱全てを失いました

— 古森霧 (@komorikiri_Ace) January 22, 2017

Komo is incredibly upset about all of this.

Translation?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Regardless, it's a universal change and it affects both players badly. Of course Bear or people running an event or anything in society will say everything was just fine, can't be looking bad.
There's no proof for Zero vs Dabuz, even if Dabuz is tweeting out it was different he could be memeing. It's hard to say but just watching game 1 of the Zero vs Dabuz vod alone it all felt fishy.

https://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/v/116649357
If anyone is wanting to watch it.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Translation?

Google translate says "I lost all my passion for this game"

Wonder why that is? Is it because he lost or because of the launch rates? or something else?

 

[freypies]

Translation?

"I've lost my passion for the game"

 

[freypies]

Google translate says "I lost all my passion for this game"

Wonder why that is? Is it because he lost or because of the launch rates? or something else?

Launch rate for sure imo. It didn't feel like a fair loss for Komo. Feel bad for both him and Zack.

 

[NotLiquid]

Can confirm Dabuz vs ZeRo played with 0.9 launch rate, in game 1 Dabuz Uthrow Diddy at 28% which didn't cause tumble when it should have...

— Ruben (@Ruben_dal) January 22, 2017

Kurogane Hammer verified

 

[Lord Dio]

Google translate says "I lost all my passion for this game"

Wonder why that is? Is it because he lost or because of the launch rates? or something else?

well......

I would understand if Komo took a break from the game after that. I hope he still plays the game after this.

IN all....
He looked super upset after the runback, Zack offered him the handshake and he completely rejected it.
But I guess the feeling was kinda mutuall, I knew by how badly Zack bodied him in the runback that Zack was angry, it felt way too rushed for usual Zack. It's understandable. A mistake that could cost a whole set, maybe even a whole tournament (komo could've had some good run and won the whole thing), was made.

 

[Fenny]

Anyway, not watching the rest of G4

The fact that all legitimacy of top 8 can be put into question and the TOs are just like "welp that's just how the cookie crumbles" just stripped all hype away from it

 

[Nidtendofreak]

@Das Koopa Considering the TOs are unwilling to properly fix the problem, I'd recommend that for your data 1-7th all get the same amount of points.

End of the day, we don't know how many sets are effected, and we know of at least one that was but they aren't fixing it. Really the smash community as a whole should basically write off this tournament's results as a 8 way tie. Pot should be split accordingly as well but we know that ain't going to happen.

 

[ARGHETH]

@Das Koopa Considering the TOs are unwilling to properly fix the problem, I'd recommend that for your data 1-7th all get the same amount of points.

End of the day, we don't know how many sets are effected, and we know of at least one that was but they aren't fixing it. Really the smash community as a whole should basically write off this tournament's results as a 8 way tie. Pot should be split accordingly as well but we know that ain't going to happen.

Ehh...It's changed now, and half the top 8 still has to play. 5th and 7th, maybe, but that's it.
Komo played Abadango at Zero Saga and beat him, and he'd probably lose to Mr R or Zero anyways.

 

[Lord Dio]

Yeah, I think I'm done watching G4.....I'll keep myself informed of the results but stream-wise, I'm done.

 

[Wintermelon43]

@Das Koopa Considering the TOs are unwilling to properly fix the problem, I'd recommend that for your data 1-7th all get the same amount of points.

End of the day, we don't know how many sets are effected, and we know of at least one that was but they aren't fixing it. Really the smash community as a whole should basically write off this tournament's results as a 8 way tie. Pot should be split accordingly as well but we know that ain't going to happen.

But, as you said, we don't know how long it has been like this. The entire tournament could have been 0.9 for all we know.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Never know if there could've been a possibility of Dabuz and komo moving on, with mr. r vs dabuz and komo vs aba. Can't tell now cause Genesis only wanted a singular game replayed from the 8 games played on .9 ratio.

Unfortunate turn of events for the people in losers but of course the winners through all this will prolly not care much (especially captain zack with defeating Abadango now)

 

[ARISTOS]

That's the problem with having this ruleset change; what matches were legitimate vs which were not?

Sucks for everyone involved, more organizers will def pay attention to this moving forward.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

But, as you said, we don't know how long it has been like this. The entire tournament could have been 0.9 for all we know.

We don't. But nobody has voiced any suspicions outside of top 8 + we can prove at least one full set in top 8 was altered but not redone. That's a reasonable cutoff for now unless more evidence is given.

 

[Fenny]

Man, Komo aside, I feel so bad for Zack

I really think this was his true breakout tournament to show what he could really do and this whole debacle has ruined it for him

Can't get over how sloppy their management of the situation was, and how it has cost those in the loser's bracket (save maybe Zero)

 

[Wintermelon43]

Man, Komo aside, I feel so bad for Zack

I really think this was his true breakout tournament to show what he could really do and this whole debacle has ruined it for him

Can't get over how sloppy their management of the situation was, and how it has cost those in the loser's bracket (save maybe Zero)

I thought of this too.

Zack finally has his breakout....... which nobody will take serisualy because of this.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Why would it ever be set to 0.9? Regarding whether or not it was 0.9 the entire tournament.. that needs to be checked. TBH this stinks of sabotage.

 

[L9999]

What a garbage tournament.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

Yeeeah the way this tourney was run was an absolute train wreck. They also didn't fix problems when they came up and now the launch rate wasn't right? Ugh just ugh this is supposed to be a major tourney, not amateur hour at a friends house. Then there's some of the players losing their tempers wtf?!?