Social The Ganonic Grimoire - Kongregation of Kings

[the king of murder]

Could you u elaborate on that? I generally use FH Dair to approach, since it beats most of my opponents options.

SH Nair is the easiest and most reliable way to interrupt Falcons dash grab. With that reduced landing lag, SH Nair becomes kinda safe even when whiffed. Also someone once suggested fighting Falcon in the air more often and after fighting some decent Falcons I agree our aerials are just as fast Falcons and actually more powerful so it makes the match a lot more even.

 

[Vermanubis]

NAir's definitely a good option against Falcon. But the drawback is that Falcon can easily bait whiffs if he catches on. For neutral against Falcon, I find just moving a lot with empty jumps and DTilts gets me by best.

 

[Xinc]

Could you u elaborate on that? I generally use FH Dair to approach, since it beats most of my opponents options.

FH Dair isn't a bad option. I did it a lot for fear factor, but most characters are short enough not to be fazed as easily and have options to beat it. Ex. When you land, a grab.

SH Neutral Air works as a pseudo sex kick and has ridiculous range. Opponents nearby will get hit if they don't respect the range. Plus the lag isn't as bad anymore, making it a viable spacing move. FH Neutral Air hits people trying to approach horizontally, and the second hit, if it hits, will provide enough hitstun to follow up, unless you've got a jab as fast as Falcon's or Sheik's.

 

[Kyogokudo]

Anyone else here likes Castle Siege or think it's a good counterpick for Ganondorf? It's one of my favorite stages and I feel it's a good substitute to BF. You can use the platforms on the first and second transformation like you would usually do on BF, ftilt does pretty well at killing on the walk-off one. The statues can eat some projectiles or even other attacks like Falcon's raptor boost while not being a problem at all for Ganon. This and people aren't that used to that stage for now, while they all know well BF.

 

[jahkzheng]

Anyone else here likes Castle Siege or think it's a good counterpick for Ganondorf? It's one of my favorite stages and I feel it's a good substitute to BF. You can use the platforms on the first and second transformation like you would usually do on BF, ftilt does pretty well at killing on the walk-off one. The statues can eat some projectiles or even other attacks like Falcon's raptor boost while not being a problem at all for Ganon. This and people aren't that used to that stage for now, while they all know well BF.

The hitlag produced from contacting the statue can throw off people's techs after choke, if you get the choke inside the statue. Not to mention the lingering hitboxes you can produce in much the same way. Dair is a fun one since you can use it and float there for a second and the enemy can literally run or roll into your hitbox.

 

[Xinc]

SH Nair is the easiest and most reliable way to interrupt Falcons dash grab. With that reduced landing lag, SH Nair becomes kinda safe even when whiffed. Also someone once suggested fighting Falcon in the air more often and after fighting some decent Falcons I agree our aerials are just as fast Falcons and actually more powerful so it makes the match a lot more even.

Just read this. This is very true. There's minimal lag, and it's very easier to hit both parts of neutral air if you buffer it (though you're more likely to hit the two soft hatboxes). It's very good if you want to deny any advances. Dash grab is one. Run forward is another. Full hop neutral air works as an aerial denial, (not unlike up air, but with a different use to simply disrupt). Using neutral air is also good to stop combos. Lastly, neutral air kills.


Castle Siege topic
I honestly don't think the second stage fits Ganondorf that much. It's kind of like Duck Hunt. You can be camped against, which is bad. Also Wizkick isn't as useful with statues. But yes, great for chokes. I like the first formation of the stage. Last formation is alright, but the way how it tilts can screw up rhythm.

My go-to stage choice would be Battlefiled, but Smashville and Castle Siege are the other go-tos

 

[Blobface]

At this point, I'm convinced that Dark Fists isn't just a good move for Ganondorf. It's one of the best customs in the game. I mean really, it's a frame 15 move that kills below 80%, has super armor on frame 5, smacks people off the edge, charges through and can even counter edgeguards.

The only reason it's not quite on the level of Super Speed or Kong Cyclone is that it only makes Ganondorf better in specific areas instead of improving everything.

 

[Blobface]

Pardon the bump (this can be added to the above post later), but I'm going to start writing a guide to Dark Fists, but I don't have any way to provide images or video/gifs. I'd be very thankful if someone could provide them for me. Is there anyone I should PM?
I need:

• A plain image of Ganon doing Dark Fists.
  
• An image showing the maximum spacing of Dark Fists (when moving forward), preferably against Mario.
• A Gif of Ganondorf hitting someone through the stage with Dark Fists.
• A Gif of a character, any character, trying to combo Ganon in the air, hitting the super armor, and then getting countered by Dark Fists.
• A Gif of a character, preferably Sheik or Rosalina, trying to space out aerials, hitting the super armor, and getting countered by Dark Fists.

 

[Z1GMA]

I wonder what attacks will be garantueed on Mewtwo after a Gerudo, if any.
My guts are telling me he's gonna be one of those Jab Only chars.

 

[Blobface]

As far as I know, guaranteed attacks off of Gerudo is based on the following factors:

• The animation as they fall from the blast (generally taller characters will hit the ground earlier, but it varies based on the animation)
  
• Falling speed
• Where their hitboxes are when bouncing

Mewtwo is tall and floaty, so yeah, not quite sure. It depends on his animation as he falls, but I'm going to guess Jab too.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I wonder what attacks will be garantueed on Mewtwo after a Gerudo, if any.
My guts are telling me he's gonna be one of those Jab Only chars.

I wonder if an error will stop him from being able to tech at all.

 

[Blobface]

Tomorrow, we should totally challenge the Zelda and Link boards to crew battles in order to "complete the triforce".

 

[Lozjam]

Tomorrow, we should totally challenge the Zelda and Link boards to crew battles in order to "complete the triforce".

That's pretty much a no....
Pretty much everyone will be watching the direct and perhaps even playing around with Mewtwo tomorrow.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Tomorrow, we should totally challenge the Zelda and Link boards to crew battles in order to "complete the triforce".

It's a good idea to try to set something like that up at some point in time, but tomorrow would not be the best time for that. I think it could be a good idea to make a new thread for your proposal to gauge interest in such an event, and then if enough interest exists, to contact the Link and Zelda boards to see if they're interested. Then we could potentially set up a time for it. Crew battles take a good bit of organization to pull off, and trying to set one up on a spur of the moment is a bad idea.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

So.. what's up with the Shaq faces?

 

[HeavyLobster]

So.. what's up with the Shaq faces?

April Fool's joke.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

April Fool's joke.

I knew that. No one fools the King!

... *smirks evilly as if nothing has happened*

 

[Z1GMA]

Hey, Look! My Shaq's got PURPLE!

Spoiler

No, it's not pink!

 

[Ray_Kalm]

So, balance update confirmed for the 15th.

Who else is eagerly awaiting for an even more powerful Ganon?

 

[HeavyLobster]

So, balance update confirmed for the 15th.

Who else is eagerly awaiting for an even more powerful Ganon?

Liking the odds of seeing it happen. I think he's like bottom 10 or something in the most recent Japanese tier list. Gonna lose my replays but there'll be plenty of time to create more mayhem.

 

[Blobface]

So, balance update confirmed for the 15th.

Who else is eagerly awaiting for an even more powerful Ganon?

Yeah Ganon is likely going to get a few buffs, but don't expect anything drastic*. 1.04 already had pretty small changes across the board, and this next patch is likely going to be smaller. That does make me curious as to what it's going to be though. Only things I want are an average grab range and, I dunno, a frame 6 jab?

But honestly, Ganon doesn't need any silly buffs. We all know the only reason there's ever even a fight between Ganon and another character is because Ganon isn't even trying.





*inb4 SH AC D-air comes back

 

[HeavyLobster]

*inb4 SH AC D-air comes back

Watch everyone beg for customs to be banned when Ganon starts Dair->Dair->Dark Fists 0-deathing people with rage. I'd like to see Dair's landing lag cut by a few frames, but SHAC Dair seems too safe and rewarding compared to what most characters in this game are getting.

 

[Vermanubis]

I think what some of us discussed before's pretty relevant in regard to Ganon getting buffs. His design is inherently resistent to balance, in that which anyone with an exaggerated strength like Ganon's gonna need some rounding off. That being said, I don't think the buffs'll be too big either. I think he's as balanced as he can get right now, given his schematics. Not to say I don't hope for some silly buffs though

 

[Blobface]

Getting SH AC D-air back would be utter insanity. D-air Footstool combos from 0-to-death off of a shield safe move with multiple setups (like Flame Choke), which doesn't even touch on the fact that it would turn any mistake into an instant kill. The safe, campy characters that he has issues with now would be even at best (for them) and everyone else would have no chance. It'd be obscenely broken.
(Though I admit, the idea of the entire cast of the game being under the king's boot where they belong appeals to me)

Heck, if you want to figure out just how Ganonborked SH AC D-air would be for Ganon in this game, just equip the default Brawn badge and the default Agility badge.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Is 1.0.6 the Ganondorf patch? Are we going to finally loosen our arthritic old elbows and become capable of grabbing? Are we going to get a useful jab?

Only time will tell.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I think what some of us discussed before's pretty relevant in regard to Ganon getting buffs. His design is inherently resistent to balance, in that which anyone with an exaggerated strength like Ganon's gonna need some rounding off. That being said, I don't think the buffs'll be too big either. I think he's as balanced as he can get right now, given his schematics. Not to say I don't hope for some silly buffs though

Don't expect much beyond making his jab a couple frames faster to keep the speedsters at bay a bit better, and maybe improved grab range. His customs help his issues with camping and recovery fairly well, and making his CQC better lets him cope with speedy rushdown better. Outside of that he'll be fine if his high tier problem MUs are toned down a bit. All Ganon needs are minor tweaks to a couple key areas of his moveset to make everything else work better. Most other changes I could reasonably see would be minor QOL stuff like FHAC Fair.

 

[Z1GMA]

Didn't Sakurai say there'll be no further balancing? And now there'll be?
I'm pissed off and delighted at the same time.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Didn't Sakurai say there'll be no further balancing? And now there'll be?
I'm pissed off and delighted at the same time.

False, he only said months ago "there are currently no plans for balance updates".

Big difference. It just simply means he doesn't want to say something exists when it currently doesn't.

 

[Rizen]

What is your favorite custom set with Ganon and why? I'm making a custom set.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

2122 and 2222 are so good.

 

[Blobface]

My favorite is 1121. Dropkick is nice in specific match ups, but Wizkick is usually better plus I find it more fun to use since it has more power.

Also, Dark Fists is a work of art.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I use a mixture of 2122, 1121, and 2322 depending on the matchup.

 

[Pikachutobal]

1322
Ganondorf that doesn't have Warlock Punch, is not Ganondorf...

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I'm literally crying right now.


The one Amiibo out of all that have been announced I want to get is gone.
People, why buy so much Ganon Amiibos? ;_;

 

[Blobface]

I'm literally crying right now.


The one Amiibo out of all that have been announced I want to get is gone.
People, why buy so much Ganon Amiibos? ;_;

People just can't wait to get their hands on the Ganon Cannon.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I thought he wasn't coming out until like September? How can he be sold out already?

Also, I saw @Vex Kasrani streaming his Ganondorf the other day for a while, and he was using 1222. I don't know if I would use warlock punch much, but it was interesting to me that he felt custom side-B 2 was definitely the superior option because of its guaranteed % and kill potential. It would be cool if he came in to talk about his preferences.

I use mostly 2122 and occasionally 2222, but I'm curious what you guys thought about it.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I thought he wasn't coming out until like September? How can he be sold out already?

Also, I saw @Vex Kasrani streaming his Ganondorf the other day for a while, and he was using 1222. I don't know if I would use warlock punch much, but it was interesting to me that he felt custom side-B 2 was definitely the superior option because of its guaranteed % and kill potential. It would be cool if he came in to talk about his preferences.

I use mostly 2122 and occasionally 2222, but I'm curious what you guys thought about it.

I'd be more comfortable using Side-Bs 2 and 3 in more matchups if Ganon's grab range got buffed in the next patch. As it stands now Choke is important for breaking through the defenses of a number of characters, and even with a better grab there are still certain matchups like Little Mac and Bowser where your Flame Choke followups are so good there's really no reason to bother with anything else. The others do have potential, though for now I stick with Choke most of the time.

 

[Blobface]

So I've noticed something odd about Ganon's dash attack. Our dash attack is one of the few dash attacks that can kill at reasonable %'s, but it seems that it almost ignores weight to an extent. It almost always kills at about 140%, regardless of what character you're fighting. Anyone else noticed this?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

So I've noticed something odd about Ganon's dash attack. Our dash attack is one of the few dash attacks that can kill at reasonable %'s, but it seems that it almost ignores weight to an extent. It almost always kills at about 140%, regardless of what character you're fighting. Anyone else noticed this?

Yeah I've recently noticed this as well.
Hopefully its something that won't change in the next update.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Yeah I've recently noticed this as well.
Hopefully its something that won't change in the next update.

Don't even want knockback to be increased lest its combo/string capabilities be ruined.