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The Fox Video & Critique Thread - READ OP.
- Thread starter KillerJawz
- Start date
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
Are there any vids really worth watching? I started messing with fox like half a week ago... give me some **** to watch.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
I love overusing this video, because it contains one of the most impossible spikes within the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq6Mh1TPpEA
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
Do people actually critique vids here... meaning if I put **** up, will it get critiqued???
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
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Ok, sweet 
I'll try to get a vid against Scotu's MK or Ankoku's Marth up pretty soon.
I'll try to get a vid against Scotu's MK or Ankoku's Marth up pretty soon.HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
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- 3,511
Oh god that was painful XD
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
No joke, like every time a Sheik starts to forward tilt lock a Fox, a random baby in their mothers arms just randomly combusts.
True story.
True story.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
Do you guys mind critiquing these vids?:
Bowyer (fox) v Ankoku (Marth) 1
Bowyer (fox) v Ankoku (Marth) 2
Bowyer (fox) v Ankoku (Marth) 3
...just as a heads up, I do stupid ****, that makes me die when I really shouldn't, alot... like I think I did it 4 times in those 3 games, lmao. But yeah, if you don't mind critiquing this **** Much appreciation.
Also, I picked fox up like 4 days before these vids
Bowyer (fox) v Ankoku (Marth) 1
Bowyer (fox) v Ankoku (Marth) 2
Bowyer (fox) v Ankoku (Marth) 3
...just as a heads up, I do stupid ****, that makes me die when I really shouldn't, alot... like I think I did it 4 times in those 3 games, lmao. But yeah, if you don't mind critiquing this ****
Much appreciation.Also, I picked fox up like 4 days before these vids
clowsui
Smash Legend
Bowyer how are you ever goign to get rid of your SD habit in tourney if you can't even do it in friendlies LOL
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
just some simple advice,
NEED MORE LASERS!
So many times you are on the other side of the stage trying to get in side marths range,
Fox has **** approaches, dont if you dont have to, just laser
seriosuly laser more, its so good.
NEED MORE LASERS!
So many times you are on the other side of the stage trying to get in side marths range,
Fox has **** approaches, dont if you dont have to, just laser
seriosuly laser more, its so good.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
LMAO, I know right? I'm like the one good player out there that still SD's all the ****ing time... It's way ****ing annoying. ****, most decent players don't even SD much.
I'll start on Match 1.
0:08 - From the front, Utilt will sometimes hit one frame later, which is just enough to get a shield up. Keep that in mind.
0:14 - As Fox, lasering off the edge (especially against Marth) is a bad idea unless your opponent is all the way across the stage. Even then, your goal should be getting back on stage.
0:16 - LOL. I think you know what went wrong there.
0:21 - That doesn't work, unfortunately. The hitbox isn't big enough to cover the roll frames.
0:25 - Good stuff. Mindgames, son.
0:38 - Use Dthrow (it does more damage) and pummel him too.
0:40 - I don't agree with your tactics here. As Fox, you should be lasering much, much more. Make Marth approach you.
0:43 - I love frametraps.
0:59 - Just a note, you double jump a lot more than I'm comfortable with. Marth can punish Fox quite easily in the air if you're above him.
1:34 - Unfortunately, that wasn't going to kill. I would have gone for an instant SH Bair
1:37 - I don't know why you chose to do that, but don't.
2:07 - The thing about shine stalling is that it cuts off all momentum, so just keep that in mind when doing it above the stage (your opponent can just wait to punish).
2:11 - VERY nice use of it here, though.
2:20 - Do not try to shine spike Marth if he is very close to the ledge - you'll just get Dolphin Slashed.
2:42 - Well then...
3:12 - Usmash would have ended it here; he was still lagging from Nair.
Two things that really bothered me about this match
1) You almost never short hopped.
2) Not enough lasers.
Other things to keep in mind - Don't DJ all the time, use Nair more, use Bair more. You spent the last minute or so of the match just grabbing, which, surprisingly, worked, but try not to. Use more frametraps out of Dair and Jab - if you get Marth afraid of using Dolphin Slash every time, you can do a lot of crazy stuff (Jab->CC grab, Jab->Dsmash, etc. etc.)
If you need me to explain anything else about the first match in depth, just say so.
EDIT: I think camping outside of range is great, and your sense of spacing is spectacular. I just think it would be better if you added short hops in.
0:08 - From the front, Utilt will sometimes hit one frame later, which is just enough to get a shield up. Keep that in mind.
0:14 - As Fox, lasering off the edge (especially against Marth) is a bad idea unless your opponent is all the way across the stage. Even then, your goal should be getting back on stage.
0:16 - LOL. I think you know what went wrong there.
0:21 - That doesn't work, unfortunately. The hitbox isn't big enough to cover the roll frames.
0:25 - Good stuff. Mindgames, son.
0:38 - Use Dthrow (it does more damage) and pummel him too.
0:40 - I don't agree with your tactics here. As Fox, you should be lasering much, much more. Make Marth approach you.
0:43 - I love frametraps.
0:59 - Just a note, you double jump a lot more than I'm comfortable with. Marth can punish Fox quite easily in the air if you're above him.
1:34 - Unfortunately, that wasn't going to kill. I would have gone for an instant SH Bair
1:37 - I don't know why you chose to do that, but don't.
2:07 - The thing about shine stalling is that it cuts off all momentum, so just keep that in mind when doing it above the stage (your opponent can just wait to punish).
2:11 - VERY nice use of it here, though.
2:20 - Do not try to shine spike Marth if he is very close to the ledge - you'll just get Dolphin Slashed.
2:42 - Well then...
3:12 - Usmash would have ended it here; he was still lagging from Nair.
Two things that really bothered me about this match
1) You almost never short hopped.
2) Not enough lasers.
Other things to keep in mind - Don't DJ all the time, use Nair more, use Bair more. You spent the last minute or so of the match just grabbing, which, surprisingly, worked, but try not to. Use more frametraps out of Dair and Jab - if you get Marth afraid of using Dolphin Slash every time, you can do a lot of crazy stuff (Jab->CC grab, Jab->Dsmash, etc. etc.)
If you need me to explain anything else about the first match in depth, just say so.
EDIT: I think camping outside of range is great, and your sense of spacing is spectacular. I just think it would be better if you added short hops in.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
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- Jul 27, 2007
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- 3,511
Thanks a ton for taking the time to do this.
While I do think that it would have been better if I killed him sooner, I think there are definitely some times like this that spamming grab works way **** well. Landing lag is a great time to get a grab in, and if you can keep doing it, they get frustrated and might keep going into it. It also conditions them into expecting a grab, and then you could just cut it out completely and punish them for expecting a grab. Fox's run speed also makes him be able to get to the landing spot and grab fairly easy in certain situations. I do this a fair amount with a bunch of characters and then keep doing it in a safe manor until I can't do it anymore in which case I stop trying.
I definitely agree with this.
When would be a good time to nair?
I really should start doing that.
What can I say? I'm pretty amazing =) LMAO
Thanks again, it really helps =)
clowsui
Smash Legend
see: teh_spamerer vs. Ally from CoT4
Don't worry, Bowyer - SD'ing is not that big of a deal if super-genius Kashif does it too :3
Also SD'ing vs. Ovarshtatement (avoiding namesearches here) isn't that big of a deal since he lost to Sonic LOL
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
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- Jul 27, 2007
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hey, you guys never got back to me as far as what some good vids of top fox players are. Are there any really good vids out there?
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
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- Jul 27, 2007
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- 3,511
Thanks again Zhamy. It looks like he plays completely different than me so it'll be nice to see what else is good.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
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- Jul 27, 2007
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- 3,511
Something relating to my video, so I guess I'll say it here... (There's probably a better place to talk about this, but I can't really figure out how your board works as far as this ****, so let me know if I should move the discussion).
I've been told over and over that you should laser a lot, but I don't really know if I agree with that, at least for the marth matchup because that's one of the only characters I've had a chance to play against (The matchup thread was talking about PT so I figure more people would see it here.) And I could be taking the interpretation of "laser more" wrong.
Pretty much all fox has is an amazing punish game. His laser camp game, imo, is subpar and he can't really approach so all he can do is wait to punish moves and then follow up with ****. Against marth, I don't think lasers are what you should ideally do. I think the best place to be is just outside marth's range, just chilling or jumping. If you're jumping and they try to hit you with a move, you can fast fall airdodge into them and you get a free hit. If they try to hit you when you're on the ground, you just go in right after they wiff and get a hit in. If you're lasering, then you really can't punish their attacks. You can't suddenly go at them in the air and by the time you land, they have no lag. Also, I'd rather keep them on the outside of the stage if possible, which completely wouldn't happen if I ran away and shot lasers... I think lasers should be used sometimes though such as when they're in the air or platform too far away from you, or if they are being stubborn and camping really hard, then you shoot lasers to force them to do something...
What are you guys' think of this and what are your opinions on lasers???
I've been told over and over that you should laser a lot, but I don't really know if I agree with that, at least for the marth matchup because that's one of the only characters I've had a chance to play against (The matchup thread was talking about PT so I figure more people would see it here.) And I could be taking the interpretation of "laser more" wrong.
Pretty much all fox has is an amazing punish game. His laser camp game, imo, is subpar and he can't really approach so all he can do is wait to punish moves and then follow up with ****. Against marth, I don't think lasers are what you should ideally do. I think the best place to be is just outside marth's range, just chilling or jumping. If you're jumping and they try to hit you with a move, you can fast fall airdodge into them and you get a free hit. If they try to hit you when you're on the ground, you just go in right after they wiff and get a hit in. If you're lasering, then you really can't punish their attacks. You can't suddenly go at them in the air and by the time you land, they have no lag. Also, I'd rather keep them on the outside of the stage if possible, which completely wouldn't happen if I ran away and shot lasers... I think lasers should be used sometimes though such as when they're in the air or platform too far away from you, or if they are being stubborn and camping really hard, then you shoot lasers to force them to do something...
What are you guys' think of this and what are your opinions on lasers???
KheldarVII
Smash Ace
I've seen your style of Fox in other players before so don't let it discourage you from using it. It's almost like creating an invisible dome around the player with a small spiked ball rotating and shifting around the boundary, slowly closing in. Fox can do that but alas lots of characters can break it.
If you can follow their pattern I'm sure it'll work out better.
EDIT: Didn't see the newer post.
Well for lasers, maybe they don't mean stand around and laser camp exactly. With Marth you can get away with it a lot but in most cases you can try to add in small laser periods during your approaches and retreats for the extra 12% damage over time. It saves you from risking another combo he can Dolphin Slash out of and you'll kill him earlier. Although in many cases when people are critiquing a Fox all they can say is just use lasers more because everything else you did right. Seems to be a common shelter complaint.
There are many empty intervals in which Fox can throw in a random laser. Even if you miss, if not for the damage but for the small tick of rage you can add to the player's mental stability. It helps more than you think.
If you can follow their pattern I'm sure it'll work out better.
EDIT: Didn't see the newer post.
Well for lasers, maybe they don't mean stand around and laser camp exactly. With Marth you can get away with it a lot but in most cases you can try to add in small laser periods during your approaches and retreats for the extra 12% damage over time. It saves you from risking another combo he can Dolphin Slash out of and you'll kill him earlier. Although in many cases when people are critiquing a Fox all they can say is just use lasers more because everything else you did right. Seems to be a common shelter complaint.
There are many empty intervals in which Fox can throw in a random laser. Even if you miss, if not for the damage but for the small tick of rage you can add to the player's mental stability. It helps more than you think.
You're rather aggressive with Fox, which takes quite a bit of skill to pull off, and even then, I'm not sure how effective it is in certain matchups.
Kheldar explained the benefits of lasering pretty well, but like you said - Fox has an amazing punish game, but your opponent has to make mistakes for that to happen. Why not laser whenever you get a free moment and help that along? It helps you control the match, although in a subtle way. Lasers remind them that they need to approach, it helps you add on a little tick of damage, and if you're spacing correctly (so you can react to whatever happens), it can't hurt you.
You don't have to laser, but I think it's helped every Fox player who uses it well rather than hurt.
Kheldar explained the benefits of lasering pretty well, but like you said - Fox has an amazing punish game, but your opponent has to make mistakes for that to happen. Why not laser whenever you get a free moment and help that along? It helps you control the match, although in a subtle way. Lasers remind them that they need to approach, it helps you add on a little tick of damage, and if you're spacing correctly (so you can react to whatever happens), it can't hurt you.
You don't have to laser, but I think it's helped every Fox player who uses it well rather than hurt.
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
the whole reason why lasering is so important for foxs game is because it sets you up to punish, they approach you react you win =] its quick and effective at racking damage and isnt risky at all, you'll see after people start learning the fox matchup that it becomes harder and harder to play aggresively with him
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
Idk about the aggressive thing. My fox style is more of a pseudo aggressive. The only time I approach is when I think the other guy left himself open to get punished. My fox style is basically based off of Anther's Pikachu style. Watch out and punish every little thing that's punishable, don't approach when it's not safe, play only as aggressive as it's safe and slowing down depending on how often my opponent is trying to hit me... though I do it more by jumping cause of fox's jump/fast fall/aerials.
But, idk, I feel like a lot of the time when you could be lasering, it would be better to be doing something else such as watching your opponent and waiting for them to twitch. Though I guess lasers right before you land would probably be good... But with how I play, if I don't punish enough of the stuff that's able to be punished, then I don't get enough hits in and lose.
Also, as you may have noticed, I play with extreme attention to spacing. I basically try to stay right at the point where they barely wiff and I'm pretty good at judging when I should take a step back so I don't get railed. hmm...
Thanks for your thoughts! If you have any more opinions about the matter, or want to comment on how I play, I want to discuss/debate it because doing so will keep everyone thinking and bring new thoughts and ideas to the table.
But, idk, I feel like a lot of the time when you could be lasering, it would be better to be doing something else such as watching your opponent and waiting for them to twitch. Though I guess lasers right before you land would probably be good... But with how I play, if I don't punish enough of the stuff that's able to be punished, then I don't get enough hits in and lose.
Also, as you may have noticed, I play with extreme attention to spacing. I basically try to stay right at the point where they barely wiff and I'm pretty good at judging when I should take a step back so I don't get railed. hmm...
Thanks for your thoughts! If you have any more opinions about the matter, or want to comment on how I play, I want to discuss/debate it because doing so will keep everyone thinking and bring new thoughts and ideas to the table.
718_ROOKI3
Smash Lord
PLEASE UPDATE
718R00kie (Fox) vs. Apple (Olimar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGifyCkdYT8
718R00kie (Fox) vs. PRC (MK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2LeUsJTqL8&feature=channel_page
718R00kie (Fox) vs. Pierce (Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcFtjKjXn3I&feature=channel_page
718R00kie (Fox) vs. (Meta Knight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7e8ZjmtFA0&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Munk(DDD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hFPloKgwhw&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Ryko(Snake)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug4xNbZ2My0&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Pierce(Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_-cd2Ei6B0&feature=channel
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Pierce(Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtrrqEThJ0c&feature=channel
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Pierce(Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE9NrXaCHbA&feature=channel
718R00kie (Fox) vs. Apple (Olimar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGifyCkdYT8
718R00kie (Fox) vs. PRC (MK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2LeUsJTqL8&feature=channel_page
718R00kie (Fox) vs. Pierce (Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcFtjKjXn3I&feature=channel_page
718R00kie (Fox) vs. (Meta Knight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7e8ZjmtFA0&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Munk(DDD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hFPloKgwhw&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Ryko(Snake)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug4xNbZ2My0&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Pierce(Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_-cd2Ei6B0&feature=channel
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Pierce(Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtrrqEThJ0c&feature=channel
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Pierce(Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE9NrXaCHbA&feature=channel
718_ROOKI3
Smash Lord
hahahahahahahahaha heck yea.... that was funny...
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
I will update this soon. I am just extremely lazy at the moment and dusted off my old PSone to play some MGS. lulz!
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
wow pierces edgegaurd at 2;35 was sick in last video
overall great job rookie, ur fox looks awesome !_!
must get back to my bair spacing xD
overall great job rookie, ur fox looks awesome !_!
must get back to my bair spacing xD
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
I played some more, and yeah, I agree that my play style doesn't work against some characters, like MK, but I think it has some advantages against others... and against characters that jumping and pressure doesn't work, run away and laser is definitely a good idea... It just matters the matchup and a little bit of your opponents style.
Well... I dont claim to be all that awesome with fox. But I have a very very very small compilation of some cool stuff... not too awesome but whatever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9AhGDLXwkk
And maybe i'll get a live match up here one day and get some real critique. Please feel free to tell me how I could improve these "combos" too :]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9AhGDLXwkk
And maybe i'll get a live match up here one day and get some real critique. Please feel free to tell me how I could improve these "combos" too :]
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
718_ROOKI3
Smash Lord
718R00kie(Fox) vs. Wes(Sonic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F04uUeZoKSM&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. HellFox(DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cBeEjNycE8&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. HellFox(DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUDdcx2J6hE&feature=channel_page
new videos, nkb please update asap, thank you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F04uUeZoKSM&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. HellFox(DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cBeEjNycE8&feature=channel_page
718R00kie(Fox) vs. HellFox(DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUDdcx2J6hE&feature=channel_page
new videos, nkb please update asap, thank you
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
fox free for all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTtsBZp5GWo
EDIT: fixed, **** xat making me keep wierd youtube links >.<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTtsBZp5GWo
EDIT: fixed, **** xat making me keep wierd youtube links >.<
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Hey, that was an epic video, but that wasn't exactly a Fox free for all...