The First Party general support thread

[fogbadge]

Maybe the voices can be fixed, but no way. I much prefer the grittier portrayals in Smash. I especially want Bowser to go back to his Melee/Brawl animations.

but why? its not how their meant to be, it just doesnt feels right for any of them

To be fair, DK did have more realistic noises in DKC.

do you meant the original or the newer ones?

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

I just realized it's been a whole year since the November 1st direct, meaning that it's been a year since pretty much all of our favorite first parties were deconfirmed between Sprits, Assist Trophies and Mii Outfits. Which character's deconfirmation was the worst of them for you guys?

Mine was already AT since the beginning unfortunately... Midna got little to no time to shine in this game's hype cycle... But eh, she's finding back her popularity now that everyone got ATd and Zelda got the shaft once again
But yeah still, even though I love that AT, it's the one that hurtled me the most

 

[Arthur97]

Oh I know it'll never really happen as long as Sakurai is making Smash Bros.


Reminder that Smash caused a fire Piranha Plant to be added to the latest Mario Tennis because Nintendo confused ironic memeing for genuine support.

To be fair, that game already had a Chain Chomp playable.

do you meant the original or the newer ones?

Original. If memory serves, DK didn't get his modern voice until DK64.

 

[Lenidem]

Wait, what's wrong with his voice? Isn't it the same guy just rerecorded?

I don't think so. While the Melee clips sounded exactly like taken straight from Ocarina of Time, the Ultimate ones sound very different.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I agree with this. Toad, Dixie, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario and Waluigi are some of the biggest faces in Nintendo. You could say Rex and Springman are pretty reasonable too.

As much as I like someone like Vaati, Three House's Hilda or say Gooey to an extent, I can understand why they're unlikely and kind of unreasonable requests.

A Link Between World’s Hilda on the other hand, is one of the easiest and most obvious echos it’s confusing that she’s omitted even though Zelda is based on that games incarnation.

 

[Quillion]

A Link Between World’s Hilda on the other hand, is one of the easiest and most obvious echos it’s confusing that she’s omitted even though Zelda is based on that games incarnation.

The problem is that Hilda is a one-shot, and, Echo or not, that would make her a bad pick. Frankly, if we need a Zelda echo, OoT/TP Zelda would work better since they're far more iconic and actually were in Smash before.

Echoes need to be selected with the same amount of care as full characters.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The problem is that Hilda is a one-shot, and, Echo or not, that would make her a bad pick. Frankly, if we need a Zelda echo, OoT/TP Zelda would work better since they're far more iconic and actually were in Smash before.

Echoes need to be selected with the same amount of care as full characters.

Why would being a one shot make her a bad pick? Aren’t the other Zelda’s you mentioned also one shots by your logic?

 

[Lenidem]

The problem is that Hilda is a one-shot, and, Echo or not, that would make her a bad pick. Frankly, if we need a Zelda echo, OoT/TP Zelda would work better since they're far more iconic and actually were in Smash before.

Echoes need to be selected with the same amount of care as full characters.

Kinda agree with that. But Hilda could have been a proper pallet swap, at least.

 

[Wigglerman]

I thought of some cosmetic changes and small moveset changes to make Ganondorf more canon.
His forward tilt (currently just a mean kick) could be a trident thrust with the same hitbox and frame data.
His jab could be the same except also summoning the energy tennis ball from OOT (I forgot the name, but you all know what I'm talking about.)
His down Smash could be the trident as well, just a cosmetic change.
His Up Smash is the only move I'd totally change. It could be a super long range upward trident thrust. Most similar to Palutena's Up Smash.

Beyond that, I suggest bringing back custom moves to give Ganondorf more canon options such as levitation and using his trident as a boomerang.

If you couldn't tell, I think Ganondorf needs his trident. It's by far his most iconic weapon.

Also, while on the topic of Ganondorf, please give him costumes for Pig Ganon, Twilight Princess Ganondorf, and Phantom Ganondorf.

In a new Smash and I had my way, I'd just give Ganon the Hyrule Warriors treatment. Entire move set and appearance from that game because it's his most rad incarnation yet.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

The problem is that Hilda is a one-shot, and, Echo or not, that would make her a bad pick. Frankly, if we need a Zelda echo, OoT/TP Zelda would work better since they're far more iconic and actually were in Smash before.

Echoes need to be selected with the same amount of care as full characters.

The bolded statement is something I would normally agree with... but I can't take it seriously when you literally just suggested a previous design of Zelda as an Echo Fighter. It's like saying that, instead of Ken, Ryu's Echo Fighter should've been his Street Fighter 1 design.

So far, all the Echo Fighters are separate characters from their base, and any future Echo Fighters will most likely be that.

 

[Quillion]

Why would being a one shot make her a bad pick? Aren’t the other Zelda’s you mentioned also one shots by your logic?

When I and other people say "one shot" or "one off" in the Zelda sense, we mean characters that aren't incarnations of the main three, Link, Zelda, and Ganon, or recurring secondaries like Impa, Tingle, or Beedle.

Zelda one shots aren't really good picks for Smash since they do a poor job of representing the whole series. I only accept Skull Kid as a major exception as by far the most iconic of the one shots and as the single one shot to represent all one shots.

Hilda, Midna, Ghirahim, and the Champions, though? Poor representatives of a whole series.

 

[Quillion]

The bolded statement is something I would normally agree with... but I can't take it seriously when you literally just suggested a previous design of Zelda as an Echo Fighter. It's like saying that, instead of Ken, Ryu's Echo Fighter should've been his Street Fighter 1 design.

So far, all the Echo Fighters are separate characters from their base, and any future Echo Fighters will most likely be that.

I was just speaking hypothetically if we need a Zelda echo. Besides, each Zelda and Link is their own character.

And frankly, I do want OoT/TP adult Link as an echo for Link since I miss the old moveset too much and Young Link isn't good enough.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

When I and other people say "one shot" or "one off" in the Zelda sense, we mean characters that aren't incarnations of the main three, Link, Zelda, and Ganon, or recurring secondaries like Impa, Tingle, or Beedle.

Zelda one shots aren't really good picks for Smash since they do a poor job of representing the whole series. I only accept Skull Kid as a major exception as by far the most iconic of the one shots and as the single one shot to represent all one shots.

Hilda, Midna, Ghirahim, and the Champions, though? Poor representatives of a whole series.

I don’t think any of the one shots you mentioned are any less important than Skull Kid. He’s certainly not more iconic than them either.

You are seriously undervaluing how popular Hilda, Midna, the Champions, etc are.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I was just speaking hypothetically if we need a Zelda echo. Besides, each Zelda and Link is their own character.

And frankly, I do want OoT/TP adult Link as an echo for Link since I miss the old moveset too much and Young Link isn't good enough.

Well, sorry to say, but we're likely not getting any Echo Fighters like that. They're meant to squeeze in extra characters with little effort, not bring back old movesets. You're just gonna have to settle for Young Link, whose purpose is to keep Link's old Melee moveset around anyway.

 

[Quillion]

I don’t think any of the one shots you mentioned are any less important than Skull Kid. He’s certainly not more iconic than them either.

You are seriously undervaluing how popular Hilda, Midna, the Champions, etc are.

At this point, with Majora's Mask being on par with BotW and surpassing OoT in popularity nowadays, Skull Kid is absolutely the most iconic of the one-shots.

Well, sorry to say, but we're likely not getting any Echo Fighters like that. They're meant to squeeze in extra characters with little effort, not bring back old movesets. You're just gonna have to settle for Young Link, whose purpose is to keep Link's old Melee moveset around anyway.

Given that Ultimate's engine was designed to take in the coding, models, and animations of Smash 4 with as little effort as possible, I still don't see why we can't get a more "classic" Link.

And I'm still not settling for Young Link. He's still too light to be MY Link.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

At this point, with Majora's Mask being on par with BotW and surpassing OoT in popularity nowadays, Skull Kid is absolutely the most iconic of the one-shots.

Source?

 

[fogbadge]

Original. If memory serves, DK didn't get his modern voice until DK64.

ah well then thats reflective of sakurais unwillingness to update certain characters while updating others

 

[Arthur97]

I don't think so. While the Melee clips sounded exactly like taken straight from Ocarina of Time, the Ultimate ones sound very different.

Because I'm pretty sure they were direct rips. Now, it's the same guy just doing them fresh just for Smash. Takashi Nagasako if you're curious. In fact, I think Ultimate is the first time Ganondorf actually had freshly recorded clips for Smash. Same for Link too.

 

[PhantomShab]

Skull Kid was in 2 games and it's up in the air if the one in Twilight Princess is the same Skull Kid.

Calling him a one-shot is objectively incorrect.

 

[Lenidem]

Because I'm pretty sure they were direct rips. Now, it's the same guy just doing them fresh just for Smash. Takashi Nagasako if you're curious. In fact, I think Ultimate is the first time Ganondorf actually had freshly recorded clips for Smash. Same for Link too.

Interesting, thanks for the info. Still feels weird to me though. Why did they do that?

 

[Arthur97]

Interesting, thanks for the info. Still feels weird to me though. Why did they do that?

I don't know. It must not be issues with the quality since Young Link is still using old clips from that era. Then again, why did they not change Lucina's voice? Why did they redo Wolf's clips even though he's using the same VA? Or Fox and Falco for that matter?

 

[Guynamednelson]

since Young Link is still using old clips from that era

Which is weird because his VA redid his voice for Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't know. It must not be issues with the quality since Young Link is still using old clips from that era. Then again, why did they not change Lucina's voice? Why did they redo Wolf's clips even though he's using the same VA? Or Fox and Falco for that matter?

They change/redo Fox and Falco's voices every game I believe, it might as well be tradition at this point...

 

[Arthur97]

They change/redo Fox and Falco's voices every game I believe, it might as well be tradition at this point...

I mean, it usually made sense because I think they change VA's so much. Even if it's changing back to a prior one.

Which is weird because his VA redid his voice for Hyrule Warriors.

That is weird.

 

[Wigglerman]

They change/redo Fox and Falco's voices every game I believe, it might as well be tradition at this point...

His voice has been consistent these last two games though, I do believe? Aren't they using the same VA from Star Fox: Zero?

 

[Gamma Ray]

Then again, why did they not change Lucina's voice?

Lucina actually got a different voice actor (Alexis Tipton) fairly early on in Fire Emblem Heroes and is also voiced by her in Fire Emblem Warriors. Her original VA (Laura Bailey) hasn't reprised the role since. Why this is I don't know but I'm guessing that's the reason they didn't change any of her voice clips. They could've gone with the new voice but maybe they thought the fans would've disliked that.

I don't mind either way since they both do a good job.

 

[fogbadge]

it does feel like theyre willing to put more effort in to some characters than others

 

[Arthur97]

His voice has been consistent these last two games though, I do believe? Aren't they using the same VA from Star Fox: Zero?

Fox and Falco are the same VA's I think, but they still redid their lines.

Lucina actually got a different voice actor (Alexis Tipton) fairly early on in Fire Emblem Heroes and is also voiced by her in Fire Emblem Warriors. Her original VA (Laura Bailey) hasn't reprised the role since. Why this is I don't know but I'm guessing that's the reason they didn't change any of her voice clips. They could've gone with the new voice but maybe they thought the fans would've disliked that.

I don't mind either way since they both do a good job.

I know they changed, that's kind of the point of why didn't they update her, but if they're going to change Ike's (and give him two sets while they're at it), they should have changed hers. It would have given them a chance to fix her terrible characterization. Though, they don't even care enough to give her her own unique idle pose from Awakening.

 

[UserKev]

Bruh, I wouldn't care if they reused Skull Kid's MM voice clips if he's made playable. Voice overs is the least of my concerns and we should all be used to it.

 

[Gamma Ray]

I know they changed, that's kind of the point of why didn't they update her, but if they're going to change Ike's (and give him two sets while they're at it), they should have changed hers. It would have given them a chance to fix her terrible characterization. Though, they don't even care enough to give her her own unique idle pose from Awakening.

Ah sorry, I kinda explained the obvious then. But yeah, it would've made more sense for them to update her voices lines and go with the new voice actor.

 

[Kold Pizza]

I support first party characters getting a chance more often. I don’t mind third party but at the same time I don’t want an oversaturation of it.

First party characters are what make this game special, it’s something hardcore Nintendo fans like me and many others truly understand.

If I were to work at Nintendo, I would make the priority of representing first party characters most important; as a company you want many creations and contributions to shine in Smash; guest characters are welcome, but characters created within the company should always be prioritized!

 

[smashkirby]

I support first party characters getting a chance more often. I don’t mind third party but at the same time I don’t want an oversaturation of it.

First party characters are what make this game special, it’s something hardcore Nintendo fans like me and many others truly understand.

If I were to work at Nintendo, I would make the priority of representing first party characters most important; as a company you want many creations and contributions to shine in Smash; guest characters are welcome, but characters created within the company should always be prioritized!

Precisely my thoughts. Sometimes, I worry that Smash will be filled with so many 3rd parties, that the novelty of them will begin to wear off on me, and I honestly prefer Nintendo's own characters more anyways.

 

[Arthur97]

Precisely my thoughts. Sometimes, I worry that Smash will be filled with so many 3rd parties, that the novelty of them will begin to wear off on me, and I honestly prefer Nintendo's own characters more anyways.

I think the novelty has already worn off. In Brawl and base Smash 4, they were special. Something truly hype, and they saved it for the best of the best (sans Snake). Now, we have Terry and Bayonetta. If they're concerned first parties just won't sell or can't generate the hype. Well, for one, Ridley and K. Rool were some of they hypest newcomers, and two, Terry is not very hype. That's just how it is. He's no Sonic or Mega Man. He's no Ryu or Cloud. He's probably not even a Joker. He may even be lower than Bayonetta who's not an icon.

 

[Sebas22]

I think the novelty has already worn off. In Brawl and base Smash 4, they were special. Something truly hype, and they saved it for the best of the best (sans Snake). Now, we have Terry and Bayonetta. If they're concerned first parties just won't sell or can't generate the hype. Well, for one, Ridley and K. Rool were some of they hypest newcomers, and two, Terry is not very hype. That's just how it is. He's no Sonic or Mega Man. He's no Ryu or Cloud. He's probably not even a Joker. He may even be lower than Bayonetta who's not an icon.

Sakurai is a Fatal Fury fan. Terry is more a personal pick than a logical one.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sakurai is a Fatal Fury fan. Terry is more a personal pick than a logical one.

Terry isn't the most sellable character, but he helps the game appeal to Latinos and the Chinese.

But that's the thing: If a cult classic is getting more content than a much more mainstream third-party (Undertale), and they thought it was okay to have Banjo be Microsoft's DLC fighter instead of Steve or Master Chief, why should it matter that various Nintendo characters aren't the most mainstream thing ever?

 

[Arthur97]

Sakurai is a Fatal Fury fan. Terry is more a personal pick than a logical one.

Is he? I don't even know. Either way, I still blame that for how much love SF gets. Especially compared to Sonic which I really think should be the king of the third parties.

Terry isn't the most sellable character, but he helps the game appeal to Latinos and the Chinese.

But that's the thing: If a cult classic is getting more content than a much more mainstream third-party (Undertale), and they thought it was okay to have Banjo be Microsoft's DLC fighter instead of Steve or Master Chief, why should it matter that various Nintendo characters aren't the most mainstream thing ever?

Personally, I'd take Terry over Undertale. I also have thing with Indies getting a fighter.

Banjo and Kazooie didn't get in because of Microsoft, they got in in spite of Microsoft (Just because they cooperated doesn't mean they didn't make things more difficult than they would have been otherwise). They got in because they've been requested since about Melee I think, and had Microsoft not bought Rare, probably would have been in it even sooner. For the Nintendo base, Banjo and Kazooie probably mean a whole lot more than especially Master Chief. Not to mention, they bring some much needed personality to the DLC as Joker and the Heroes don't seem to be brimming with personality.

 

[smashkirby]

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Anyone see this today? Hopefully, it means good things for these IPs...

 

[Guynamednelson]

the Heroes don't seem to be brimming with personality

That's what you get when you have to have animations be appropriate for 4 different characters.

 

[Arthur97]

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Anyone see this today? Hopefully, it means good things for these IPs...

Most don't mean much to me. Could be good for Golden Sun even though I'm not attached to it.

Edit: G Guynamednelson How much personality did they even have though. Half of them didn't even have proper names. Plus, I'm not sure that DQ is the most plot heavy franchise to begin with. I've heard them equated to essentially bed time stories you play.

 

[PeridotGX]

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Anyone see this today? Hopefully, it means good things for these IPs...

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon

I thought the series was dead. I really hope this is more than just PR talk, and we see a new one soon.