The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[BluePikmin11]

So Chrono has joined the pessimistic side huh. Interesting. That's fine, but I am still going to have some degree of faith on Lip being a playable character,

 

[ChronoBound]

So Chrono has joined the pessimistic side huh. Interesting. That's fine, but I am still going to have some degree of faith on Lip being a playable character,

I have been pessimistic on Lip's prospects for months. The base roster is looking to have very few characters left (possibly as few as only two more characters left), and DLC is going to be a very fierce competition, You will have the likes of an ARMS character, Rhythm Heaven character, second Sonic character, Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, Dixie Kong, a Fire Emblem Three Houses Character, a Generation 8 Pokemon, and Rex & Pyrra (not to mention possibly other third-parrty characters we might not see coming) all competing for these slots assuming they are not confirmed as playable characters or confirmed as Assist Trophies for the base roster.

However, there can easily still be more Panel de Pon content in Ultimate, and its possible we could possibly get a stage based on the original game (of which a DLC stage is also possible).

 

[MasterRosie]

I have been pessimistic on Lip's prospects for months. The base roster is looking to have very few characters left (possibly as few as only two more characters left), and DLC is going to be a very fierce competition, You will have the likes of an ARMS character, Rhythm Heaven character, second Sonic character, Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, Dixie Kong, a Fire Emblem Three Houses Character, a Generation 8 Pokemon, and Rex & Pyrra (not to mention possibly other third-parrty characters we might not see coming) all competing for these slots assuming they are not confirmed as playable characters or confirmed as Assist Trophies for the base roster.

However, there can easily still be more Panel de Pon content in Ultimate, and its possible we could possibly get a stage based on the original game (of which a DLC stage is also possible).

I swear on everything, if we get an ARMS character, yet another FE character, (Who, ironically, also owns PdP) another Pokémon, or even more 3rd parties before Nintendo’s own neglected puzzle mascot, I’m seriously going to question the priorities going on here. It would be doubly insulting if they added SEGA’s puzzle mascot Arle and Lip still gets shafted.

Sorry if I sound mad, but I’m just tired of having these new, ‘hip’ characters instead of ones that could use a push to be cool again. (Last one we had was Pit in Brawl). It’s like giving a raise to a new employee at a job, yet not giving anything to another employee that has worked their hardest and for a longer period of time, and continually gets screwed over, eventually they’re just going to quit and get another job where they’ll be valued more. I’d hope this doesn’t happen to Lip, especially after how much Sakurai praised PdP.

 

[Jyl]

I swear on everything, if we get an ARMS character, yet another FE character, (Who, ironically, also owns PdP) another Pokémon, or even more 3rd parties before Nintendo’s own neglected puzzle mascot, I’m seriously going to question the priorities going on here. It would be doubly insulting if they added SEGA’s puzzle mascot Arle and Lip still gets shafted.

Sorry if I sound mad, but I’m just tired of having these new, ‘hip’ characters instead of ones that could use a push to be cool again. (Last one we had was Pit in Brawl). It’s like giving a raise to a new employee at a job, yet not giving anything to another employee that has worked their hardest and for a longer period of time, and continually gets screwed over, eventually they’re just going to quit and get another job where they’ll be valued more. I’d hope this doesn’t happen to Lip, especially after how much Sakurai praised PdP.

Well like I keep saying if we want to give Lip a chance we just have to make our voices loud enough for them to hear us.
Because fan input is that important.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Dream Scenario; Sakurai drops a trailer of Lip being playable in Smash, just to also reveal that his next project would be a new Panel De Pon.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well like I keep saying if we want to give Lip a chance we just have to make our voices loud enough for them to hear us.
Because fan input is that important.

Yeah, the only problem is Lip isn't the only character left behind (any F-Zero character that isn't Falcon, for starters), not to mention that there must be at least several hundred characters people want in there. So unless Lip gets Ridley levels of attention, it'll still be an uphill battle.

 

[NukeA6]

I swear on everything, if we get an ARMS character,

Really? ARMS is one of the last franchises not yet represented in Smash Bros in any way. I fully expect Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, or Twintelle to at least be DLC if not in the game already.

 

[N. Onymous]

Well like I keep saying if we want to give Lip a chance we just have to make our voices loud enough for them to hear us.
Because fan input is that important.

I keep trying to say this to people, that we need to be loud if we want to get heard, but nobody listens. We definitely have the talent to make a splash in the Nintendo communuty, but for some reason, nobody wants to use it.

And the whole "no Japan-only characters ever" thing is, to be frank, hypocritical horse**** after everything Melee did for FE. It legitimately disgusts me that it was put in. I can't wait for the day Sakurai decides to get rid of it, and I hope it's this time. The last thing I want is for Memecrap to get a playable character before Panel de Pon ever does...and it's looking more and more like that's the case. What an insult.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Whatever, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's rigid on it. I mean Marth and Roy were also Japan-only characters that he knowingly added to Melee.

He's broken this "rule" twice, so chances are that he naturally no longer considers it a hard rule.

 

[MasterRosie]

Really? ARMS is one of the last franchises not yet represented in Smash Bros in any way. I fully expect Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, or Twintelle to at least be DLC if not in the game already.

It’s just the idea that a new Nintendo IP like ARMS gets to live and flourish in Smash before others that have seniority and have gotten next to nothing over the years is just bothersome to me. And, no, this is not just applicable to Lip despite that being the main topic of this thread.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Whatever, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's rigid on it. I mean Marth and Roy were also Japan-only characters that he knowingly added to Melee.

He's broken this "rule" twice, so chances are that he naturally no longer considers it a hard rule.

It was because of the high demand from Japanese fans that Sakurai added Marth in the first place.

If there is notable enough demand for Lip in both the West and Japan in the ballot, there is a good chance that Sakurai could have seriously considered her for Smash Ultimate.

I do not think Sakurai is really against the idea of Japan-only retros. He could make an exception to his rules and change his mind for certain kinds of newcomers if the demand is there, just like how K. Rool was added due to ballot demand, despite the character not being the main antagonist of the the recent DKC games.

I feel we should not be taking the negative Japan-only statements to heart.

 

[MasterRosie]

It was because of the high demand from Japanese fans that Sakurai added Marth in the first place.

If there is notable enough demand for Lip in both the West and Japan in the ballot, there is a good chance that Sakurai could have seriously considered her for Smash Ultimate.

I do not think Sakurai is really against the idea of Japan-only retros. He could make an exception to his rules and change his mind for certain kinds of newcomers if the demand is there, just like how K. Rool was added due to ballot demand, despite the character not being the main antagonist of the the recent DKC games.

I feel we should not be taking the negative Japan-only statements to heart.

Yeah...still don’t understand why people take these rules to heart. The only one I understand is the ‘video game character’ rule. (So no Shrek, Goku, or anything else ridiculous like that)

As far as I’m concerned, anyone could be fair game now. I mean, a know a lot of people are over Cloud fricking Strife being in smash, but I sure as hell am not. An official Nintendo game where Cloud, Snake, Mario, and Mega Man can go at it? Adding Lip, like I said before, is a tame choice and the “Japan only” rule shouldn’t be applied to her primarily because of Tetris Attack. Her game has been released worldwide, but just under another skin. I think that’s valid enough to warrant an inclusion. Furthermore, besides Tetris Attack, you’d think people would stop to look at Lip’s Stick in previous iterations of Smash as well as Kirby turning into a garbage block, and listen to lip’s theme remix and wonder, “Gee, I wonder what this ‘Panel de Pon’ game is all about.” Despite that, even in the worst situation where Lip is still nowhere to be seen, the ‘Everyone Is Here’ saying in the game would probably remain true to them. (Assuming they moved on from the Waluigi movement.)

 

[N. Onymous]

I mean, hell, just look at the "Flower Fairy" outfit set from New Leaf. Nintendo obviously wasn't afraid of hiding that. Why are they so paranoid about Lip turning up in Smash Bros.? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[smashkirby]

And the whole "no Japan-only characters ever" thing is, to be frank, hypocritical horse**** after everything Melee did for FE. It legitimately disgusts me that it was put in. I can't wait for the day Sakurai decides to get rid of it, and I hope it's this time. The last thing I want is for Memecrap to get a playable character before Panel de Pon ever does...and it's looking more and more like that's the case. What an insult.

Whatever, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's rigid on it. I mean Marth and Roy were also Japan-only characters that he knowingly added to Melee.

He's broken this "rule" twice, so chances are that he naturally no longer considers it a hard rule.

It was because of the high demand from Japanese fans that Sakurai added Marth in the first place.

If there is notable enough demand for Lip in both the West and Japan in the ballot, there is a good chance that Sakurai could have seriously considered her for Smash Ultimate.

I do not think Sakurai is really against the idea of Japan-only retros. He could make an exception to his rules and change his mind for certain kinds of newcomers if the demand is there, just like how K. Rool was added due to ballot demand, despite the character not being the main antagonist of the the recent DKC games.

I feel we should not be taking the negative Japan-only statements to heart.

Yeah...still don’t understand why people take these rules to heart. The only one I understand is the ‘video game character’ rule. (So no Shrek, Goku, or anything else ridiculous like that)

As far as I’m concerned, anyone could be fair game now. I mean, a know a lot of people are over Cloud fricking Strife being in smash, but I sure as hell am not. An official Nintendo game where Cloud, Snake, Mario, and Mega Man can go at it? Adding Lip, like I said before, is a tame choice and the “Japan only” rule shouldn’t be applied to her primarily because of Tetris Attack. Her game has been released worldwide, but just under another skin. I think that’s valid enough to warrant an inclusion. Furthermore, besides Tetris Attack, you’d think people would stop to look at Lip’s Stick in previous iterations of Smash as well as Kirby turning into a garbage block, and listen to lip’s theme remix and wonder, “Gee, I wonder what this ‘Panel de Pon’ game is all about.” Despite that, even in the worst situation where Lip is still nowhere to be seen, the ‘Everyone Is Here’ saying in the game would probably remain true to them. (Assuming they moved on from the Waluigi movement.)

I mean, hell, just look at the "Flower Fairy" outfit set from New Leaf. Nintendo obviously wasn't afraid of hiding that. Why are they so paranoid about Lip turning up in Smash Bros.? It just doesn't make any sense.

This. All of this right here is what gives me hope for Lip to appear in Smash. You know, people claim Sakurai's F.E. bias started with Smash 4, but I'd say it REALLY began in Melee, what with Marth and Roy's inclusion in that game.

Like, would Lip (or any other Japan-prominent character, for that matter) REALLY serve as a risk to add in Smash as a hidden character or something? Honestly, it still really bugs the ever-lovin' out of me how F.E. seems to be the one franchise Sakurai was willing to give a pass to in this regard.

 

[N. Onymous]

Part of me is tempted to say "because Smash wasn't yet the commercial juggernaut it is today, and they only want to add recognizable characters who can push amiibo." Another part of me is hoping he'll give Lip her dues.

 

[NukeA6]

Honestly, it still really bugs the ever-lovin' out of me how F.E. seems to be the one franchise Sakurai was willing to give a pass to in this regard.

Because it's his favorite franchise of Nintendo. I'm not sure how much he likes Panel de Pon but if it's a top 10 of his, all he needs is a little convincing.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

The best way is to let Sakurai and Nintendo know that people want Lip and Panel de Pon back.
I'm sure that's not just Sakurai's fault. Nintendo knows that if you put a franchise in Smash, it becomes popular and people expect sequels from it... maybe Nintendo is not interested in making Panel de Pon sequels and they don't want Lip in Smash to avoid generating more demand for something they don't want to do.
But if they realize that there is demand already, maybe they can change their mind, who knows...

The big problem is that Miiverse does not exist anymore.
I'm sure that the comments on Miiverse under the Kirby development logs played a role in the return of Adeleine and the Dream Friends feature as a whole, because the developers have read them, and many people asked them for the unused Kirby characters to return; I made several posts about Adeleine as well (often nice drawings that got some "Yeah"s and got some visibility thanks to this), and at the end, she returned for real.

I think that if Miiverse was still a thing, it would have been possible to do something similar for Lip.
They use social networks now, Twitter... but it's not the same thing... comments on there have way less visibility unless you get a lot of likes, and to get likes you must write something that's in line with the general consensus. Asking for Lip on a Twitter comment under a Nintendo news would most likely get buried by some unfunny meme and spam.
Also, on social networks it's very dangerous to promote stuff and go against the general consensus, it's easy to get account limitations without any feedback, and they would give way less visibility to your comments (or shadowban in the worst cases, if you get labeled as a spammer); those limitations usually get carried by other accounts from the same IP etc. so this may ruin your ability to use that social network forever if this happens, and the fact that often there is no feedback is even more annoying.

I don't use Twitter but if someone with an account wants to try to start a thing... it's worth a try.
My main problem is that Miiverse was a social network dedicated to videogames, while stuff like Twitter are for everything, and I'm not really ok with using the same account for things I don't want to use the same account for.
I don't know how multiple accounts are managed on Twitter, I know that some sites don't accept them, some do.

 

[N. Onymous]

I still think #JusticeForLip is a great idea for a campaign, so long as we don't overdo it and end up like the darker side of a certain purple fellow's fanbase. We'll storm Nintendo with fanart, requests, movesets, memes (positive ones), all just to express our love for our series. And maybe...just maybe...that'll catch their attention.

 

[Luigifan18]

I still think #JusticeForLip is a great idea for a campaign, so long as we don't overdo it and end up like the darker side of a certain purple fellow's fanbase. We'll storm Nintendo with fanart, requests, movesets, memes (positive ones), all just to express our love for our series. And maybe...just maybe...that'll catch their attention.

#JusticeForLip doesn't feel like the best hashtag for the campaign. Perhaps #BringLipBack or #RevivePanelDePon would work better?

 

[N. Onymous]

I think it's the perfect hashtag for the campaign, considering all this series has been through, but if we had to go with another name, I like the sound of #BringLipBack.

 

[Jurae818]

^I stand by that notion. Count me in.
It'll be the Kutthroats' campaign all over again.

 

[MasterRosie]

#LipIsHip?

I dunno, lol.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Because...
Don’t you know?
Female gamers are a myth, and us tough guys are just into shooting stuff with AK47’s and tough crap like that.
Hey, clearly this is what Nintendo wants us to believe. (Still BS)

I know you are just being sarcastic here but all my BLEH to this!
I've never liked shooting games... and macho crap is just plain B-O-R-I-N-G
Someone like Lippy is much more my style~<3

I’ll support Lip as a retro rep for Ultimate, I’d think she be a great character and the item Lip’s Stick has been in the past few games and would make sense as I was wondering where that item originated and looked it up as for being a retro rep, I also support Donkey Kong Junior, Balloon Fighter, Excitebiker, Mach Rider, Stanley the Bugman from Donkey Kong 3, and even Mr. You from Sky Skipper if that’s even remotely possible. But I hope she makes it in, in some shape or form.

I appreciate your support in the Ashley thread as well ^^

"....................thrown in prison"

Fake.

aww... I don't want it to be fake though. It's like one of the few actual leaks with Lip in it that has gained any sort of traction!

DLC is going to be a very fierce competition, You will have the likes of an ARMS character, Rhythm Heaven character, second Sonic character, Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, Dixie Kong, a Fire Emblem Three Houses Character, a Generation 8 Pokemon, and Rex & Pyrra (not to mention possibly other third-parrty characters we might not see coming) all competing for these slots assuming they are not confirmed as playable characters or confirmed as Assist Trophies for the base roster.

I'm sorry but I don't understand where you're getting about half of those choices from... you talk as if they ALL have to come before Lip or something, or that AT characters can't become playable through DLC either; very strange to me.

I keep trying to say this to people, that we need to be loud if we want to get heard, but nobody listens. We definitely have the talent to make a splash in the Nintendo communuty, but for some reason, nobody wants to use it.

Making a twitter profile dedicated to Justice for Lip is a good start! And getting the Japanese audience for the WAリでし channelWD involved into following it might be a smart move? One of the videos on that channel has over 350,000 views- that's a huge audience! The more followers a twitter account has, the more companies like Nintendo start to take notice. The amount of followers something gains is akin to signing like a petition saying you want Lip playable. Especially if you call the twitter profile something like LipForSmash!

Whatever, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's rigid on it. I mean Marth and Roy were also Japan-only characters that he knowingly added to Melee.

He's broken this "rule" twice, so chances are that he naturally no longer considers it a hard rule.

True. He's broken his own rules before. He once said, size doesn't matter in Smash, while also implying Ridley was too big for Smash. But looky what we have now~

 

[ChronoBound]

I
I'm sorry but I don't understand where you're getting about half of those choices from... you talk as if they ALL have to come before Lip or something, or that AT characters can't become playable through DLC either; very strange to me.

All of those characters have a far stronger resume than Lip, and far more requests too. Also, we have no precedent of Assist Trophies becoming DLC fighters (Lip probably will not end up an Assist Trophy any way, I imagine most of the unrevealed Assist Trophies left are the veteran ones).

 

[FooltheFlames]

All of those characters have a far stronger resume than Lip, and far more requests too. Also, we have no precedent of Assist Trophies becoming DLC fighters (Lip probably will not end up an Assist Trophy any way, I imagine most of the unrevealed Assist Trophies left are the veteran ones).

Well as for your 1st sentence, I would say that's a highly, highly subjective matter. And as for your 2nd one, I was kind of implying my favorite Ashley could become playable in Ultimate one day but that's not a topic I want to get into here.

I still respect your stance on these things though, but honestly some of your choices still greatly confound me

 

[Jyl]

It’s just the idea that a new Nintendo IP like ARMS gets to live and flourish in Smash before others that have seniority and have gotten next to nothing over the years is just bothersome to me. And, no, this is not just applicable to Lip despite that being the main topic of this thread.

To be fair there still is no Wonder Red in smash. Not all new IP gets the nod as playable in Smash.

Also I have a Twitter and I'll try to use the Lipforsmash tag, seems to be the most logical one.

 

[ChronoBound]

Well as for your 1st sentence, I would say that's a highly, highly subjective matter. And as for your 2nd one, I was kind of implying my favorite Ashley could become playable in Ultimate one day but that's not a topic I want to get into here.

I still respect your stance on these things though, but honestly some of your choices still greatly confound me

I mentioned also other characters I did not see coming (like we could get someone like Dante or Ryu Hayabusa, both of whom few requested), however, I have a hard time seeing Lip beating out those characters. The only outside chances I see are if a major Panel de Pon game is in development and it goes back to the original cast, and Sakurai figuring that a good way to promote the game would be with making Lip playable. I did not name off those characters due to my own fondness of the characters but rather due to precedent (Pokemon Company and Intelligent Systems usually request promotions of the latest installments of Pokemon and Fire Emblem respectively), requests/popularity, and various other factors (like Sakurai outright saying he wants Geno in).

 

[FooltheFlames]

I mentioned also other characters I did not see coming (like we could get someone like Dante or Ryu Hayabusa, both of whom few requested), however, I have a hard time seeing Lip beating out those characters. The only outside chances I see are if a major Panel de Pon game is in development and it goes back to the original cast. I did not name off those characters due to my own fondness of the characters but rather due to precedent (Pokemon Company and Intelligent Systems usually request promotions of the latest installments of Pokemon and Fire Emblem respectively), requests/popularity, and various other factors (like Sakurai outright saying he wants Geno in).

Still pretty strange to me you see such, uh, offbeat character choices as more promising than Lip for Smash. Stranger still to see you arguing for this on Lip's Support Thread. But it is a fair enough opinion to make.

Didn't Sakurai more or less also outright say he wants Lip in as well? If I'm not mistaken? He hasn't expressed that for her as strongly as he has for Geno, no I don't think, but he still has a strong interest in her playability. He's surely entertained the idea to himself at one point or another, personally, to himself. But I can't see some of the characters you've been naming to ever come across his radar or him giving them serious thoughts on their movesets, sorry.

 

[ChronoBound]

Didn't Sakurai more or less also outright say he wants Lip in as well?.

Sakurai's exact words on Lip (which were circa 2000-2002) were, "Lip. How many people know who she is? (implying that very few know who Lip is). That being said, Panel de Pon is a masterpiece." This was in response to a Japanese fan asking for Lip.

Also, which characters can you not see Sakurai talking about or going on his radar? Sakuai is probably well-versed with Nintendo.

ARMS character: Sakurai likely knows about ARMS seeing as it was a major new IP introduced on the Switch.
Rhythm Heaven character: Sakurai literally had a Rhythm Heaven character planned for Smash 4 (Chorus Kids)
Second Sonic character: Sakurai is likely familiar with Sonic's supporting cast. Shadow has been an Assist Trophy since Brawl, and his Assist Trophy has been conspicuously absent for Ultimate (he is probably THE leading candidate for additional newcomers if there are more newcomers after Incineroar and Ken on the base roster)
Banjo-Kazooie: Sakurai is familiar with them, and even mentioned why they did not make an appearance at all in Melee (legal issues with Rare)
Geno: Sakurai literally said he has wanted Geno as a playable character since Brawl.
Isaac: Isaac was an Assist Trophy in Brawl, and probably the single most wanted character in the Western Smash Bros. fanbase right now and likely did very well on the ballot.
Bandanna Dee: Sakurai has visited big events promoting the 25th anniversary of Kirby of which Bandanna Dee was heavily promoted, not to mention Bandanna Dee is probably the single most wanted newcomer among the Japanese fanbase right now.
Dixie Kong: Literally planned as a newcomer for Brawl (though as part as a tag team with Diddy Kong. Iconic and popular character too.
Fire Emblem Three Houses character: Since Melee, there has always been the most contemporary lord added in as a playable character. Roy's game was not even out yet when Melee was released, and Corrin was the only first-party Nintendo character newcomer added as DLC.
Generation 8 Pokemon: Same as the above. Pokemon Company likes to promote their latest Pokemon as well.
Rex & Pyrra: Sakurai spent quite a bit of time gushing how fantastic a game Xenoblade 2 is on social media.

 

[Jyl]

I think that if Miiverse was still a thing, it would have been possible to do something similar for Lip.
They use social networks now, Twitter... but it's not the same thing... comments on there have way less visibility unless you get a lot of likes, and to get likes you must write something that's in line with the general consensus. Asking for Lip on a Twitter comment under a Nintendo news would most likely get buried by some unfunny meme and spam.
Also, on social networks it's very dangerous to promote stuff and go against the general consensus, it's easy to get account limitations without any feedback, and they would give way less visibility to your comments (or shadowban in the worst cases, if you get labeled as a spammer); those limitations usually get carried by other accounts from the same IP etc. so this may ruin your ability to use that social network forever if this happens, and the fact that often there is no feedback is even more annoying.

I don't use Twitter but if someone with an account wants to try to start a thing... it's worth a try.
My main problem is that Miiverse was a social network dedicated to videogames, while stuff like Twitter are for everything, and I'm not really ok with using the same account for things I don't want to use the same account for.
I don't know how multiple accounts are managed on Twitter, I know that some sites don't accept them, some do.

Regarding your comment on Twitter, I agree it's much bigger and not just a platform to promote video games. And the amount of users is 100x that of Miiverse.
However Nintendo DO read as much as they can. And if we utilize Hashtags, they will notice, and they will see what is trending. As much as I hate to admit it, utilizing hashtags to promote Lip is the best chance to get Nintendo to notice us.

I think it's the perfect hashtag for the campaign, considering all this series has been through, but if we had to go with another name, I like the sound of #BringLipBack.

I like #Lipforsmash better.
I also made a twitter dedicated to campaigning Lip the other day. Don't want to link it here for getting warned for promoting, but just to let you know that I am trying. I was going to wait until after the game's release but with all the negativity here lately, why not start now?

 

[PsychoJosh]

#LipIsHip?

I dunno, lol.

Uh, hello? Why are you guys missing the obvious one?


#GiveUsSomeLip

 

[StarDustStorm]

I know you are just being sarcastic here but all my BLEH to this!
I've never liked shooting games... and macho crap is just plain B-O-R-I-N-G
Someone like Lippy is much more my style~<3

I appreciate your support in the Ashley thread as well ^^

aww... I don't want it to be fake though. It's like one of the few actual leaks with Lip in it that has gained any sort of traction!

I'm sorry but I don't understand where you're getting about half of those choices from... you talk as if they ALL have to come before Lip or something, or that AT characters can't become playable through DLC either; very strange to me.

Making a twitter profile dedicated to Justice for Lip is a good start! And getting the Japanese audience for the WAリでし channelWD involved into following it might be a smart move? One of the videos on that channel has over 350,000 views- that's a huge audience! The more followers a twitter account has, the more companies like Nintendo start to take notice. The amount of followers something gains is akin to signing like a petition saying you want Lip playable. Especially if you call the twitter profile something like LipForSmash!

True. He's broken his own rules before. He once said, size doesn't matter in Smash, while also implying Ridley was too big for Smash. But looky what we have now~

Well I do know Takamaru, and Issac has a twitter, Takamaru's twitter started a few days ago. The person actually followed me.
Also I know people needs to fix the Panel de Pon info on Wikipedia because the way its presented is outdated and makes the game look like a minor version of Tetris Attack. That game should have its own page like Puyo Puyo despite the game having reskins of Sonic and Kirby. Overall looking for Panel de Pon info isn't really easy to find for people to be educated properly on the series. Wikipedia is a big example of misinforming people about the series along with reviews of Tetris Attack treating it as a minor version of it or not even mentioning it at all. I remember that tournaments use Tetris Attack, NOT Panel de Pon.
So yeah, Panel de Pon needs to be explained properly to people. I'm pretty sure that Puyo Puyo has been out of this phase since the release of Puyo Puyo Tetris.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Regarding your comment on Twitter, I agree it's much bigger and not just a platform to promote video games. And the amount of users is 100x that of Miiverse.
However Nintendo DO read as much as they can. And if we utilize Hashtags, they will notice, and they will see what is trending. As much as I hate to admit it, utilizing hashtags to promote Lip is the best chance to get Nintendo to notice us.

I like #Lipforsmash better.
I also made a twitter dedicated to campaigning Lip the other day. Don't want to link it here for getting warned for promoting, but just to let you know that I am trying. I was going to wait until after the game's release but with all the negativity here lately, why not start now?

Would LipService be deemed appropriate?

 

[Jyl]

Would LipService be deemed appropriate?

Let's keep it PG

 

[FooltheFlames]

ChronoBound
You make some fair and valid points, but I don't recall him naming any of those other games masterpieces

Sakurai seems to me to value old school over the new era of games, as evident with many of his more ''odd" character and design choices. Animal Crossing for instance, I always found it cool that the villagers are based off of their original N64/GCN looks rather than their taller New Leaf looks. Sakurai knows the origins of characters and the legacy of Nintendo's history is important to Smash.
So I can see him adding a few of what you said to promote their franchises, but I also suspect he will keep it old school too by giving us one of his surprise retro characters. Considering his love for Panel de Pon has already clearly been sprinkled throughout every game so far, I think Lip would be one of his go to choices for that.
I know there's no written rule that at least one retro and/or surprise character has to appear in every game, but it has consistently happened so far; that's been the pattern. Which is the same argument you use to boast that a gen 8 Pokemon and contemporary FE lord must be playable as well. Why would he only break one tradition but keep another?

Furthermore, I don't see ARMS or Rhythm Heaven as Major IP's yet. Hasn't the Paper Mario series all together made more money than both of them combined? But PM is not in Smash yet either is it? I could be wrong about the figures on the PM IP, but I know they can't be bad. And about Sonic characters and Banjo & Kazooie, I don't think Sakurai would have 3rd parties like them take precedence over other Nintendo Classics. As I said Sakurai has always used Smash to celebrate and glorify the history of Nintendo 1st and foremost. As for Rex & Pyra, their game might have come to late in the production cycle for Ultimate for them to be considered, and Elma might be out as well for Sakurai might think Xenoblade already has enough representation, as he seems to think with WarioWare, which is much older than Xenoblade.

So I see about 9 of your choices so far as not being as valid enough to make it in before Lip, including Dante and Ryu Hayabusa.
Of course, this is all merely speculation on my part, as is yours. Neither of us can claim to be able to read Sakurai's mind at the moment, or to know Nintendo's current business plans.

 

[StarDustStorm]

ChronoBound
You make some fair and valid points, but I don't recall him naming any of those other games masterpieces

Sakurai seems to me to value old school over the new era of games, as evident with many of his more ''odd" character and design choices. Animal Crossing for instance, I always found it cool that the villagers are based off of their original N64/GCN looks rather than their taller New Leaf looks. Sakurai knows the origins of characters and the legacy of Nintendo's history is important to Smash.
So I can see him adding a few of what you said to promote their franchises, but I also suspect he will keep it old school too by giving us one of his surprise retro characters. Considering his love for Panel de Pon has already clearly been sprinkled throughout every game so far, I think Lip would be one of his go to choices for that.
I know there's no written rule that at least one retro and/or surprise character has to appear in every game, but it has consistently happened so far; that's been the pattern. Which is the same argument you use to boast that a gen 8 Pokemon and contemporary FE lord must be playable as well. Why would he only break one tradition but keep another?

Furthermore, I don't see ARMS or Rhythm Heaven as Major IP's yet. Hasn't the Paper Mario series all together made more money than both of them combined? But PM is not in Smash yet either is it? I could be wrong about the figures on the PM IP, but I know they can't be bad. And about Sonic characters and Banjo & Kazooie, I don't think Sakurai would have 3rd parties like them take precedence over other Nintendo Classics. As I said Sakurai has always used Smash to celebrate and glorify the history of Nintendo 1st and foremost. As for Rex & Pyra, their game might have come to late in the production cycle for Ultimate for them to be considered, and Elma might be out as well for Sakurai might think Xenoblade already has enough representation, as he seems to think with WarioWare, which is much older than Xenoblade.

So I see about 9 of your choices so far as not being as valid enough to make it in before Lip, including Dante and Ryu Hayabusa.
Of course, this is all merely speculation on my part, as is yours. Neither of us can claim to be able to read Sakurai's mind at the moment, or to know Nintendo's current business plans.

There are people who think King K. Rool is the Snes retro rep.

 

[FooltheFlames]

There are people who think King K. Rool is the Snes retro rep.

I can see that being the case.
But he has also appeared on N64 games and beyond, while Lip has been stuck in the SNES era much like Ice Climbers stuck in the NES. Also Pit and Mac, bar one game.

EDIT: oh and another thing about K.Rool, he doesn't surprise us in the way Duckhunt or ROB does. He was highly requested and popular. Lip would fit more along the lines of Duckhunt and ROB, most players feeling like she came outta no where- a real blast from the past feelz~

 

[N. Onymous]

There are people who think King K. Rool is the Snes retro rep.

Can't be. He's from an existing series.

I'll have to find your Twitter account later (when I'm not busy), Jyl. I'll also have to retweet everything it's ever put out.

 

[ChronoBound]

ChronoBound
You make some fair and valid points, but I don't recall him naming any of those other games masterpieces
I know there's no written rule that at least one retro and/or surprise character has to appear in every game, but it has consistently happened so far; that's been the pattern. Which is the same argument you use to boast that a gen 8 Pokemon and contemporary FE lord must be playable as well. Why would he only break one tradition but keep another?
So I see about 9 of your choices so far as not being as valid enough to make it in before Lip, including Dante and Ryu Hayabusa.
Of course, this is all merely speculation on my part, as is yours. Neither of us can claim to be able to read Sakurai's mind at the moment, or to know Nintendo's current business plans.

You are literally letting your fanboyism clouding your judgment if you think Lip outclasses nearly all of those characters in terms of prospects. Put this to a poll ANYWHERE, and Lip loses out to all of them in terms of who is seen as more likely.

As for the retro slot, it easily could have been Simon Belmont who was this game's retro newcomer, and even then, the much more popular Takamaru (who is also a Japan only retro character) became an Assist Trophy. Even still, if you want an overt retro character, there is Geno who has not been in another game (aside from a minor cameo) since 1996 (only a few months later than Lip's debut). Sakurai has spoken highly of other games as well if you think Sakurai calling Panel de Pon a masterpiece automatically shoots Lip to the top of the likely charts. Sakurai has spoken very highly of Xenoblade 2 for example.

I am neutral on all those listed characters by the way with the exception of Dixie Kong (whom I am big supporter of). I am not letting bias cloud my judgment when I make these analyses. I will say what I think regardless of whether it is popular consensus or not. In this thread, saying Lip is facing an uphill battle to get in is obviously not popular, but it is what I feel and think.

 

[FooltheFlames]

You are literally letting your fanboyism clouding your judgment if you think Lip outclasses nearly all of those characters in terms of prospects. Put this to a poll ANYWHERE, and Lip loses out to all of them in terms of who is seen as more likely.

Guilty as charged!
That may be true, but those polls do not decide who does, or doesn't get into Smash. It's Sakurai and Nintendo that does. So it's hardly relevant unless in which case you believe the characters in this game are getting in based on their popularity in the 2015 ballot. But as characters like Isabelle, Ritcher, and Dark Samus already prove you can get into the game with no showing on the ballot at all if the 2015 consolidation poll is to be accredited seriously, as it should be since it's the largest sum amount of any evidence we have at this point sporting as a reflection of the ballot so far:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ppw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit?usp=drivesdk

I can see Simon or Geno being considered retro reps. King K.Rool as well.
But the one thing these characters lack is that Lip has is the surprise factor. At some point in the speculation cycle, all 3 became expected shoe ins. Geno still isn't technically in, but people do talk about him much more than Lip. Lip still has the factor that ROB had in Brawl or that Duckhunt had in Smash 4. Sakurai knows Geno is popular among fans, he knew K.Rool was too, and how later Simon came to be to an extent. I believe he still wants to surprise us with something wild~

I support Dixie Kong too! ^^ (high five me?)
I support a lot of characters. If you go and check her supporters list, Birthnote should have added me there~

I do respect you for speaking your mind here, it's highly commendable. I'm all for freedom of speech and open discussion at anytime, I don't want to censor anyone's thoughts.
And yeah, all of us here know how rough Lip has had it, how rough of a road it has been for her for a very long time. That her chances are not the best... We talk about it in depth all the time, trust me- I am not immune to it. It's just that currently I'm trying to keep things positive for her here and the fresh ideas open. Call that fan bias if you will, I'm not going to deny it~