The death range.... Project Ω

[Ref]

Okay I recorded a video... I'll upload it soon NOTE THAT colin's data is for a non retreated Down air.

 

[Masky]

Okay I recorded a video... I'll upload it soon NOTE THAT colin's data is for a non retreated Down air.

Are you gonna upload it tonight?

edit: lol if this info is accurate Ness is going to become seriously broken... I'll see to it myself

 

[Uffe]

So that's it? The project is complete? And the percent, does that determine when to kill your opponent with a SH > dair > PKT2? I'm a bit confused.

 

[Ref]

There is many many more complex versions... 1 of them I put in my video...


Such as the short hop DJ PKT2 which pretty much deters Ness from pkt2 and the enemy into the tail...

I also have the standard MK grounded one along with one on fox... I picked random again and got both those characters...

Here is the sample video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdnB8YM2MsE

 

[Uffe]

So that's what you meant. You know, the first two kills with PKT2, I've done that off the stage with Ness twice before. Different opponents and different days, though.

 

[Brinzy]

Ok, that's how I thought it looked, but I wasn't sure.

Very deadly.

 

[Masky]

Can't the enemy just double jump after beign daired?

 

[Ref]

Why would they? If they do just start D airs to Up airs... If they are that concern to be hit by it they will just take U airs every D air. And if you pull this out of no where... They will most likely get hit.

Or even better just jump up there and PKT2 with it.

 

[_clinton]

Why would they? If they do just start D airs to Up airs... If they are that concern to be hit by it they will just take U airs every D air. And if you pull this out of no where... They will most likely get hit.

Or even better just jump up there and PKT2 with it.

Oh...so then I was doing it right at least ^_^

 

[xoxokev]

Good job Colin! You. Are. The MAN!

 

[_clinton]

I should say it as well about Colin being the man

 

[PKNintendo]

This is so awesome! Taking this to a tourney makes sense, thanks alot Colin.

I need to practice this more. Im curious about the Ness %, hehe, Ness ditto's just got a lot more fun...

Can't the enemy just double jump after beign daired?

I can answer this one. The beauty about this, that the enemy has no where to go but up!
If they continue to DJ, then uair/dair, for the free damage. The special thing is, if they get to desperate, like Up B away, it's a free PKT2.

 

[Tyr_03]

I'd probably just double jump and then airdodge your Uairs. Just saying. Ness's juggling game isn't that good.

 

[Ref]

His juggling game is good... DJ and Air dodge may sound effective but it's really not a good choice and a pretty bad position to be in...

Plus If Ness activates the PKT and you DJ and Air dodge then he can just lead it into you and juggle.

If Ness U airs and you DJ and Air dodge... If it didn't hit you, you still aren't in a good position...


Better yet predict the DJ and air dodge and Do an aerial PKT2 swell surprise.

 

[megamanexev3]

Colin, those worked great. I <3 it. I'm glad efforts are being taken to improve Ness's metagame.

 

[Masky]

I suspect some characters such as marth can do other things to get out, like counter or just dairing which would hit the PK Thunder and Ness

 

[Uffe]

Well with PKT activated, if hit by the tail of PKT, the enemy is stunned which pretty much makes it impossible for the opponent to do. Just look at what happens if the enemy gets tail whipped in the air alone. I'm not sure if somebody ever tried to DI or SDI out of that, if it's even possible.

 

[Masky]

Yeah but the other player is in complete control of their character after being daired and before Ness can PK Thunder

 

[Gaussis]

It's only for an attack or jump. And it takes a while due to the stun on dair. Marth will only be able to use dair. Counter will activate a bit later. Even then, Marth is susceptible to a followup due to its lag.

 

[Masky]

Try it out first before you say I'm wrong

 

[xoxokev]

Even if they were in control, they wouldn't be expecting it... the first time at least

 

[Masky]

This only matter if it can be used at a high level of play or not... not some one-off trick

 

[Neon Ness]

True. Realistically speaking, this isn't going to be common in tournament play even if we memorize every percentage for every character where this works. The situations are too narrow... But it's still good to know how to go about setting up something like this to take control of a match early on.

 

[Masky]

I don't know about that, we just need to know more about what every character can do after they're daired and if it actually is like a prediction/tech chase situation like Ref says it is

 

[xoxokev]

I have a feeling everyone will learn to avoid it after we abuse it. Like pillar spiking... but maybe not

I hope it's not

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Can't they DI the down air to be sent at an angle instead? If not this is pretttyy amazing!! I never thought of connecting down air to PKT2.

 

[PKNintendo]

Guys don't give up yet! Think about this as a free KO at that certain %. They won't expect it the first time, and maybe the second time, so it's still has it's uses. It's not like you play the same people 24/7, and I use this against my bro to catch him off guard.

 

[Gaussis]

Actually, we haven't. According to Ref, it is only step 2 of breaking Ness. If anything, I believe step 3 will complement this phase.

 

[Luigi player]

If the enemy wants to just DJ, then Ness can hit them with uair. The enemy can't escape it, it's a true combo.

 

[thesage]

Can't they DI the down air to be sent at an angle instead? If not this is pretttyy amazing!! I never thought of connecting down air to PKT2.

This plus dj. I still don't see how they couldn't get out. It'd be great if you had somebody di'ing this. Also put a better version of the EIDI so people don't think I'm lying (with a picture of the controller while you di).

 

[thesage]

I reformatted it just to list the percents and character names so it's easier for people to print.

Bowser 41.49
Chariz. 41.4
Dedede 40.84
Diddy 36.33
DK 42.95
Falco 31.06
Falcon 37.47
Fox 19.64
G & W 33.12
Ganon 38.96
I.C. 37.46
Ike 39.81
Ivysaur 39.64
Jiggly. 30.42
Kirby 33.96
Link 39.24
Lucario 39.78
Lucas 36.78
Luigi 39.07
Mario 39.09
Mario 39.09
Marth 35.84
M.K. 32.31
Ness 38.14
Olimar 34.67
Peach 37.5
Pikachu 33.15
Pit 37.86
R.O.B. 41.45
Samus 41.9
Sheik 26.76
Snake 41.87
Sonic 37.47
Squirt. 29.65
T.L. 37.68
Wario 40.65
Wolf 32.94
Yoshi 41.48
Zelda 36.02
ZSS 33.59

 

[Earthbound360]

This is still confusing to me. What are these numbers representing, and what's all the letters? B, c, etc?

 

[_clinton]

This is still confusing to me. What are these numbers representing, and what's all the letters? B, c, etc?

I'll show you if you want...19 now

 

[Earthbound360]

Uhh ok. You mean online?

 

[_clinton]

I don't know if it will work Online because of Lag...but yes...

Let me give an example ok...it isn't a match ^_^

 

[PKNintendo]

Uh, whats step three Ref? Im dying to know!

 

[Ref]

That's the thing I'm thinking about what's next right now...

 

[AfroThunderRule]

I don't think this will work.

 

[Earthbound Zero]

So many people have said that.

All you guys need to be more pollyanna.

 

[ColinJF]

This is still confusing to me. What are these numbers representing, and what's all the letters? B, c, etc?

The (g, b, c) are the constants that define Ness's down air as far as launch speed is concerned. g is growth rate, b is base launch speed, and c is a constant that governs how much of an effect vertical acceleration has on the move's launch speed. (These constants are actually different if you are using the down air as a meteor, which is why I said "grounded opponent".) These constants were needed to calculate the damage from the launch speed. The other stuff was used to calculate the required launch speed in the first place.

The only thing you need from the chart is the damage column which tells you when to hit the opponent with a down air, assuming it is fresh.