The death range.... Project Ω

[Ref]

So we all heard the myth right? What you never heard about it before? Well it goes as follows....


According to the old Ness testament there is a range of percents, a retreat on a D air or U air that completely allows a perfect PKT2 swell surprise that kills...

The problem is, what is that percent? How far does Ness retreat the aerial?

It is up to you to master...

Here is the catch too... We need to list it.

There is a relationship here though, the higher the percent the higher the enemy goes, the stagnation on the d air the lower the enemy goes... And the further you retreat the more tail you get in, the further you retreat the later the pkt2 hits... And of course gravity and character a long with how you move the thunder...

Another variation to the death range is the aerial one, which is probably much easier but takes higher percents, and has another effect, how high you cancel your DJ or jump into pkt2...



So how will we do it? Well, we are a strong community of well put together heads, the goal is simple take replays of the percents, report them. Record them. Rate on efficiency.

The most important step.... Practice them...

Sometimes this range relies on something else, fear and how your opponent reacts...


Some even say it's a Myth... Today I tell you it exist.

The list...

It is better if we focus on one character at a time...

My current research...

Meta Knight

Grounded!

Fresh D air : 32%
Retreat: All after D air hits

Fresh U air fast falled: 35%
Retreated: None


Snake

Grounded

Fresh D air: 42%
Retreat: None

Fresh U air:
Retreat:

Final goal, list it for every character, and get a video on it for every character.

COMPLETE RESEARCH FOR D AIR NON RETREATED....

I now have a good approximation for each character. I checked out Fox, Sheik, Ivysaur, Charizard, Kirby, and a couple others myself and these percents appeared to work. Jigglypuff's is really wrong though because she falls so slow it throws off my assumption that they should all be at the same height. Anyway...

Ness down air – grounded opponent – 12%
g = 18.62
b = 2643.388
c = 161.83656790795

Name	w1	w2	t.f.v	t0	t	a.f.v	l. v	damage
Bowser	1.111	0.91	1.08	0.28	0.49	0.61	3697	41.49
Chariz.	1.061	0.33	1.05	0.39	0.58	0.52	3645	41.4
Dedede	1.071	0.29	1.52	0.59	0.64	0.47	3619	40.84
Diddy	0.975	0.55	1.12	0.36	0.54	0.56	3667	36.33
DK	1.091	0.2	1.23	0.51	0.63	0.48	3624	42.95
Falco	0.919	1.23	1.33	0.3	0.45	0.67	3727	31.06
Falcon	1.030	0.92	1.43	0.37	0.49	0.61	3697	37.47
Fox	0.910	3.41	1.42	0.16	0.33	0.9	3855	19.64
G & W	0.884	0.01	0.97	0.48	0.67	0.45	3608	33.12
Ganon	1.056	0.91	1.28	0.34	0.49	0.62	3700	38.96
I.C.	0.970	0.07	0.94	0.44	0.65	0.46	3616	37.46
Ike	1.035	0.28	1.29	0.5	0.61	0.49	3631	39.81
Ivysaur	1.010	-0.16	1.05	0.63	0.75	0.4	3581	39.64
Jiggly.	0.849	-0.78	0.77	1.75	1.7	0.18	3461	30.42
Kirby	0.899	-0.44	0.94	0.84	0.95	0.32	3536	33.96
Link	1.030	0.46	1.25	0.43	0.56	0.53	3655	39.24
Lucario	1.010	-0.4	0.94	0.78	0.91	0.33	3544	39.78
Lucas	0.980	0.49	1.07	0.36	0.55	0.55	3661	36.78
Luigi	0.995	-0.32	0.95	0.7	0.84	0.36	3558	39.07
Mario	1.000	0	1	0.5	0.68	0.44	3606	39.09
Marth	0.944	-0.25	1.17	0.78	0.84	0.36	3558	35.84
M.K.	0.904	0.68	1.08	0.32	0.52	0.58	3679	32.31
Ness	0.980	-0.12	1.02	0.58	0.73	0.41	3588	38.14
Olimar	0.919	-0.47	1.02	0.96	1.02	0.3	3525	34.67
Peach	0.960	-0.37	0.83	0.65	0.85	0.35	3555	37.5
Pikachu	0.904	0.4	1.17	0.42	0.57	0.53	3650	33.15
Pit	0.980	0	1.11	0.55	0.69	0.44	3602	37.86
R.O.B.	1.040	-0.32	0.94	0.69	0.84	0.36	3559	41.45
Samus	1.051	-0.54	0.83	0.91	1.04	0.29	3521	41.9
Sheik	0.935	2.21	1.23	0.19	0.39	0.77	3785	26.76
Snake	1.076	0.16	1.35	0.58	0.66	0.46	3612	41.87
Sonic	0.985	0.33	1.14	0.43	0.58	0.51	3643	37.47
Squirt.	0.884	1.05	1.02	0.25	0.48	0.62	3703	29.65
T.L.	0.970	-0.16	1.01	0.6	0.75	0.4	3583	37.68
Wario	1.045	0.3	1.09	0.42	0.59	0.51	3641	40.65
Wolf	1.020	1.84	1.4	0.25	0.4	0.75	3772	32.94
Yoshi	1.045	-0.05	1.01	0.53	0.7	0.43	3599	41.48
Zelda	0.935	-0.26	0.94	0.63	0.8	0.38	3569	36.02
ZSS	0.914	0.44	1.12	0.39	0.56	0.54	3656	33.59

w1 is weight, w2 is fall speed acceleration, t.f.v is top fall speed, t0 is time required to accelerate to top speed, t is total time required to fall 0.3 units, a.f.v is the average fall speed over 0.3 units, l. v is the launch speed required to make the character end up at 0.3 units above the ground, and damage is the damage before the hit required to make the down air launch with that launch speed.

 

[PKNintendo]

Oh... My... God... Ref is this True!

If so, you made my christmas. This helped the MK matchup SO much.

 

[Earthbound Zero]

Ref this actually works. I love you, marry me pl0x? D:

 

[PKNintendo]

Ref this actually works. I love you, marry me pl0x? D:

Who was the MK you faced? Human or CPU. If it was human, LOL at his face!

Seriously, Ref is awesome.

 

[Masky]

Wait... so is this supposed to be done from the ground or the air? I'm confused

 

[Ref]

Short hop D air retreat after it hits then pkt immediately, control the pkt to set up a swell surprise usually hitting the opponent the time right before they land....


I've done it to several characters and players so, this is why I started this project....


It's not just MK, it's every character in the game.... I did MK first because he was picked by random....

So let us start testing that bowser stuff...

 

[Earthbound Zero]

Yep I pulled it off on a MK in my friend list, he got mad and left after I spiked him twice for the 2nd and 3rd kill. :x

Masky, it's a Swell Surprise, I got it off in the air, but you can do it on platforms too, when your opponent is hit by the Dair or fastfalled Uair, they get in the perfect position to be tailwhipped, and lead into a PKT2 so it's usually an instant KO. :O

 

[Ref]

This is so broken, it's amazing, everything is pretty much guaranteed if your opponent doesn't do some broken counter DI or something.....

Basically this is my whole project for them to also be in KO ranges when this works...

 

[PKNintendo]

This is so broken, it's amazing, everything is pretty much guaranteed if your opponent doesn't do some broken counter DI or something.....

Basically this is my whole project for them to also be in KO ranges when this works...

This is AMAZING! Seriously,this is Ness christmas gift! I hope it works on Marth to. METAKNIGHT of all people XD. You rock, man.

PK Rockin forever.

 

[Neon Ness]

I can be stwedant in skool of Ref?

I think I already have some replay data for Pit. *runs to Wii*

Maybe it should be discussed in the NBR, also? Don't want outside character boards knowing what we're up to.

 

[PKNintendo]

I can be stwedant in skool of Ref?

I think I already have some replay data for Pit. *runs to Wii*

Maybe it should be discussed in the NBR, also? Don't want outsides knowing what we're up to.

Let's go! To the back room!

 

[Earthbound Zero]

Ref said it's guaranteed to work on everyone PKNintendo, it's like Ness just got his reward from Magicant. x3

 

[Ref]

This is AMAZING! Seriously,this is Ness christmas gift! I hope it works on Marth to. METAKNIGHT of all people XD. You rock, man.

PK Rockin forever.

It works on all characters. But at different percents...

So basically we all have to do test on the percents for each character...

I can be stwedant in skool of Ref?

I think I already have some replay data for Pit. *runs to Wii*

Maybe it should be discussed in the NBR, also? Don't want outside character boards knowing what we're up to.

I rather discuss here for all Ness players to see... Yes you can be a student in school of Ref.

 

[Waael]

Im confused ;.;

Wait so we dair then PKT2?..

 

[Uffe]

I did MK first because he was picked by random....

Even the random selection hates MK enough to put him in a difficult spot. Nice.

 

[PKNintendo]

Ref said it's guaranteed to work on everyone PKNintendo, it's like Ness just got his reward from Magicant. x3

Indeed. Magicant Ness forever.

 

[ColinJF]

I've been doing this forever, but just when it looks like it's going to work--I don't know the percents.

I find the aerial variation happens more often myself and it's also more likely to kill since it tends to happen at higher damages.

 

[Gaussis]

Whoa, so this is the beginning of Ref's breaking Ness project? I never thought it be something like this...

I've heard of the myth, but I thought it only worked in the air. Very good find.

I have a request, can you put up a video as an example? I want to see if I can find instances where I have done it, but I can't picture your description in my mind.

 

[ColinJF]

I think it should be possible to work out a percent for every character without actually doing any testing. The important thing is really that they end up at the same height after the down air, so long as their fall speed is sufficiently fast. Since the distances are so short, average fall speed must be used. Luckily, I have a formula for average fall speed, namely

f[average] = s/(s/f - (a * (f/2a)^2)/(2 * f) + f/2a)

where s is the distance, f is the top fall speed, and a = (w[2] + 1.78)/1.78.

I also know that the launch speed required to peak at a distance s is an affine function of average fall speed over said distance s.

It should be a pretty simple affair to find the requisite "s" for this combo to work and hence compute the required launch speed and thus the percent required to achieve that launch speed.

I'll look into it later today...

 

[Earthbound360]

Needs a better description for simple minds like my own.

Or a vid. Vids or it didnt happen.

 

[_clinton]

Needs a better description for simple minds like my own.

Or a vid. Vids or it didnt happen.

I need this to ^_^

However I guess I could look into it my self...because of how often I get to landing it (I always miss when I want it to hit though, it isn't fun when the spotlight is on me ok)

 

[xoxokev]

This... will make my friends hate my Ness even more!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHA

So, SH dair, retreat... then jump and swell surprise?!?! or is it a grounded swell surprise???

Maybe this should be answered in the NBR...

 

[Ref]

Simple description.....

Down air at this percent, then move away from the spot then PKT when you land, Tail whip and PKT2...

Yes I've been doing this for a while too Colin but we need to find the percents. I usually D air when I think it'll work and try it. I started this project so that we no longer need to guess upon when it will work...

The aerial variations range completely different into the higher percents because of the more factors into it..... The widest factor is when you cancel your jump.


It's a grounded swell surprise for the percents listed currently, it'll be separated by grounded and aerial tabs.

I'll get a video later tonight when I come back...


I will also get more death ranges soon... The percents listed right now can vary slightly...

 

[xoxokev]

^Nice! Also, Merry Christmas Ness Board!

 

[Earthbound360]

So dair someone on the ground, they bounce up, you move back, tailwhip, PKT2 from the ground?

So do you have to SAM or will doing a completely grounded PKT2 work?

 

[Luigi player]

Wow, this is awesome! And I love swell surprises :D

I'd try it but I'm too lazy to turn my Wii on right now...


Great to see some improvement for Ness (well at least it'd improve my Ness... I didn't even know that this was possible).

 

[thesage]

I need to test this out when I get home. OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMFG OMG OMG OMG OMFG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMFG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMGOMG OMFG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMFG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMGOMG OMFG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMFG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMGOMG OMFG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMFG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMGv

 

[Ref]

So dair someone on the ground, they bounce up, you move back, tailwhip, PKT2 from the ground?

So do you have to SAM or will doing a completely grounded PKT2 work?

Completely grounded works.

If anyone wants to know this is step 2 for breaking Ness Step one has to do with my mind set.

The final step will be coming once we finish this project.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ref is a pretty cool dude.

thesage is a spammer.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

I need to see a vid of this. >.>

 

[ColinJF]

I now have a good approximation for each character. I checked out Fox, Sheik, Ivysaur, Charizard, Kirby, and a couple others myself and these percents appeared to work. Jigglypuff's is really wrong though because she falls so slow it throws off my assumption that they should all be at the same height. Anyway...

Ness down air – grounded opponent – 12%
g = 18.62
b = 2643.388
c = 161.83656790795

Name	w1	w2	t.f.v	t0	t	a.f.v	l. v	damage
Bowser	1.111	0.91	1.08	0.28	0.49	0.61	3697	41.49
Chariz.	1.061	0.33	1.05	0.39	0.58	0.52	3645	41.4
Dedede	1.071	0.29	1.52	0.59	0.64	0.47	3619	40.84
Diddy	0.975	0.55	1.12	0.36	0.54	0.56	3667	36.33
DK	1.091	0.2	1.23	0.51	0.63	0.48	3624	42.95
Falco	0.919	1.23	1.33	0.3	0.45	0.67	3727	31.06
Falcon	1.030	0.92	1.43	0.37	0.49	0.61	3697	37.47
Fox	0.910	3.41	1.42	0.16	0.33	0.9	3855	19.64
G & W	0.884	0.01	0.97	0.48	0.67	0.45	3608	33.12
Ganon	1.056	0.91	1.28	0.34	0.49	0.62	3700	38.96
I.C.	0.970	0.07	0.94	0.44	0.65	0.46	3616	37.46
Ike	1.035	0.28	1.29	0.5	0.61	0.49	3631	39.81
Ivysaur	1.010	-0.16	1.05	0.63	0.75	0.4	3581	39.64
Jiggly.	0.849	-0.78	0.77	1.75	1.7	0.18	3461	30.42
Kirby	0.899	-0.44	0.94	0.84	0.95	0.32	3536	33.96
Link	1.030	0.46	1.25	0.43	0.56	0.53	3655	39.24
Lucario	1.010	-0.4	0.94	0.78	0.91	0.33	3544	39.78
Lucas	0.980	0.49	1.07	0.36	0.55	0.55	3661	36.78
Luigi	0.995	-0.32	0.95	0.7	0.84	0.36	3558	39.07
Mario	1.000	0	1	0.5	0.68	0.44	3606	39.09
Mario	1.000	0	1	0.5	0.68	0.44	3606	39.09
Marth	0.944	-0.25	1.17	0.78	0.84	0.36	3558	35.84
M.K.	0.904	0.68	1.08	0.32	0.52	0.58	3679	32.31
Ness	0.980	-0.12	1.02	0.58	0.73	0.41	3588	38.14
Olimar	0.919	-0.47	1.02	0.96	1.02	0.3	3525	34.67
Peach	0.960	-0.37	0.83	0.65	0.85	0.35	3555	37.5
Pikachu	0.904	0.4	1.17	0.42	0.57	0.53	3650	33.15
Pit	0.980	0	1.11	0.55	0.69	0.44	3602	37.86
R.O.B.	1.040	-0.32	0.94	0.69	0.84	0.36	3559	41.45
Samus	1.051	-0.54	0.83	0.91	1.04	0.29	3521	41.9
Sheik	0.935	2.21	1.23	0.19	0.39	0.77	3785	26.76
Snake	1.076	0.16	1.35	0.58	0.66	0.46	3612	41.87
Sonic	0.985	0.33	1.14	0.43	0.58	0.51	3643	37.47
Squirt.	0.884	1.05	1.02	0.25	0.48	0.62	3703	29.65
T.L.	0.970	-0.16	1.01	0.6	0.75	0.4	3583	37.68
Wario	1.045	0.3	1.09	0.42	0.59	0.51	3641	40.65
Wolf	1.020	1.84	1.4	0.25	0.4	0.75	3772	32.94
Yoshi	1.045	-0.05	1.01	0.53	0.7	0.43	3599	41.48
Zelda	0.935	-0.26	0.94	0.63	0.8	0.38	3569	36.02
ZSS	0.914	0.44	1.12	0.39	0.56	0.54	3656	33.59

w1 is weight, w2 is fall speed acceleration, t.f.v is top fall speed, t0 is time required to accelerate to top speed, t is total time required to fall 0.3 units, a.f.v is the average fall speed over 0.3 units, l. v is the launch speed required to make the character end up at 0.3 units above the ground, and damage is the damage before the hit required to make the down air launch with that launch speed.

 

[Ref]

Colin that's amazing, And yes the formula worked.

In fact it matches pretty much exactly with the percents I tested for characters recently...

I'll put it in the opening post.

Ness broken step 2 completed.

The percents can also vary by 1 or 2 maybe 3...

 

[Criosphinx]

Those are some sexy maths.

Very impressive.

 

[Ref]

Also I'm taking Colin's list to my tourney tomorrow you don't know half of what I'm going to do and how much I will abuse this...

Step 3 will come soon... It'll take me a bit of time to think about organization and stuff...

 

[xoxokev]

How do I use that list???

 

[Ref]

The last collum is what you should look at those are the percents to down air...

First is the character's names.

 

[Masky]

I still don't get how this works... I can't do it when I try

 

[Sync_]

I still don't get how this works... I can't do it when I try

Same!
We need the youtube! No more text walls... D:

Then again... my PKT2 Swell Surprise was never too good anyway... :/

 

[Masky]

If this really works then Ness will have Jigglypuff's rest XD

 

[Gaussis]

If this really works then Ness will have Melee Jigglypuff's rest XD

Fixed for you.