The Crystal Caves - The Yoshi Social Thread

[#HBC | Joker]

You shouldn't eggroll for edge guarding. As useful as it is, It's a terrible idea. If you're hit out of it and fall off the ledge, there goes your stock.



I'm definitely getting one.

That's not true, it doesn't work like that. If you touch the ground before rolling over the ledge, you'll have your jump.

 

[Deviljho]

That's not true, it doesn't work like that. If you touch the ground before rolling over the ledge, you'll have your jump.

I know. Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. My bad. I'm saying if you're hit initiating the egg roll, you are done. Needless, it is not a very good edge guarding tool. He has much better options.

 

[TomBoComBo]

You shouldn't eggroll for edge guarding. As useful as it is, It's a terrible idea. If you're hit out of it and fall off the ledge, there goes your stock.

eggrolling off the stage to edge guard is suuuuper safe. You don't lose your jump when you roll off of the stage, You keep your second jump after getting out of it. It is a viable option and sets up a rising aerial for edge guarding most characters.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I know. Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. My bad. I'm saying if you're hit initiating the egg roll, you are done. Needless, it is not a very good edge guarding tool. He has much better options.

how would you get hit during the startup of eggroll if you're starting it onstage, and you're edgeguarding someone who is offstage?

it being unsafe is not the reason it isn't great. I'm inclined to agree that it isn't the best edgeguarding option, but "being unsafe", which is what you said, is not why.

 

[TomBoComBo]

how would you get hit during the startup of eggroll if you're starting it onstage, and you're edgeguarding someone who is offstage?

it being unsafe is not the reason it isn't great. I'm inclined to agree that it isn't the best edgeguarding option, but "being unsafe", which is what you said, is not why.

I like it because it sets up rising aerials. But a fast-fall off the stage works well for that setup as well.

 

[Deviljho]

how would you get hit during the startup of eggroll if you're starting it onstage, and you're edgeguarding someone who is offstage?

it being unsafe is not the reason it isn't great. I'm inclined to agree that it isn't the best edgeguarding option, but "being unsafe", which is what you said, is not why.

Unsafe if you use it too close to the ledge or in it's start up are hit by your opponents partner.

Well, it's one reason. I was being vague. Sorry. I feel like it's just awkward, edgeguarding with that move. Bet to each their own.

 

[Hughie]

I placed 49th at a major this past weekend with Yoshi. First bracket match was with the guy who came 2nd (he went mewtwo) and 2nd bracket match was against a janky link.
Sorry for not representing Yoshi well.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I placed 49th at a major this past weekend with Yoshi. First bracket match was with the guy who came 2nd (he went mewtwo) and 2nd bracket match was against a janky link.
Sorry for not representing Yoshi well.

Don't you worry. Florida Smash will be seeing my Yoshi revealed soon, People will respect the Yosh!

 

[Deviljho]

I placed 49th at a major this past weekend with Yoshi. First bracket match was with the guy who came 2nd (he went mewtwo) and 2nd bracket match was against a janky link.
Sorry for not representing Yoshi well.

It's all good, dude. Don't be dissuaded! My first tourney I didn't do so hot, but by my second, I placed 17th out of 76! Even taking a match off of HugS! Keep practicing, don't be discouraged. I'm also going to make it to at least one more SoCal tourney before I head up to Idaho for collage. Hopefully I'll get stuff recorded! SoCal is starting to see a good Yoshi. I'll give em something to fear. >:D

 

[MrBigstuff]

Am I the only person who counterpicks color to match the stage? Yoshi has so many color options that there are only a couple stages where you don't sorta blend in.

 

[Deviljho]

Am I the only person who counterpicks color to match the stage? Yoshi has so many color options that there are only a couple stages where you don't sorta blend in.

Counterpick colors? That's a novel idea. I probably won't do it but this certainly seems viable. Probably throws off opponents, neh?

 

[Giygacoal]

Am I the only person who counterpicks color to match the stage? Yoshi has so many color options that there are only a couple stages where you don't sorta blend in.

Counterpick colors? That's a novel idea. I probably won't do it but this certainly seems viable. Probably throws off opponents, neh?

I've played against a light blue Game and Watch on Yoshi's Story in a friendly not too long ago. It's awful.
It's generally proper tournament etiquette to change colors for better visibility at the request of the opponent, so don't count on it.

 

[Damp]

Guys, I finally got a match on stream for you to critique and tell me how bad I am! My opponent wasn't too good, and at the end of the set I kinda fooled around with him, but I thought I did okay overall. Have a watch and tell me what you think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffp_3GAbjs0&list=PLAIIMiVssmgohcXmcutF_hiW2BPuTtJfT&index=12

 

[TravisRoland]

3:33
Hm. I'm very familiar with the egg throw down smash. That double jump egg grab though. I'm gonna have to start doing that. Thank you Damp. You taught someone something today

 

[MrBigstuff]

I've played against a light blue Game and Watch on Yoshi's Story in a friendly not too long ago. It's awful.
It's generally proper tournament etiquette to change colors for better visibility at the request of the opponent, so don't count on it.

Yeah, but I'm too much of a pleb to drive an hour to tournaments, so I just like screwing with my friends.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Guys, I finally got a match on stream for you to critique and tell me how bad I am! My opponent wasn't too good, and at the end of the set I kinda fooled around with him, but I thought I did okay overall. Have a watch and tell me what you think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffp_3GAbjs0&list=PLAIIMiVssmgohcXmcutF_hiW2BPuTtJfT&index=12

I'm going to watch the whole thing, but based off the first 5 min, man you need to speed up your game. Yoshi can decimate people from all sides all the time. From what I've seen, you're thinking far too much and not fast enough. Also, I tell now players this alot (not assuming you're new in any regard) but you need to put purpose behind every move you throw out. Never just throw out a move just to have a hitbox out. That's something everyone needs to keep in mind, but you seem to have a problem with the second aspect of that, you don't know what to do to follow your moves. You need to know options and what to follow with depending on what option your opponent takes. In the vid, you landed dair on the pikachu multiple times and had no idea how to follow it up. Yes if it pops them up its an easy follow, but if they tech or SDI correctly or they're at low %'s you don't get that knockup. In those events you just sat in shield, which will get you killed very fast vs more savvy opponents. You have to have a though process of: "If I get this hit, here's how I make the most of it. If I don't get this hit, this is how I'll escape or this is how I'll make advantage of the shield pressure" or whatever.

3 things you need to take away for right now: Speed up your neutral game, you're not even close to being fast enough right now. Secondly, use grab more, Yoshi's grab is AMAZING and opportunities to use it are everywhere throughout Yoshi's Neutral game. Lastly you're approaches are very mediocre, you just fullhop aerial and hop to god that you get a hit. Grabs are a good way to get in, Shorthop backairs are decent for spacing and hit-confirming, eggroll is a good approach if you use it creatively enough. Tech chases will come with the combination of those and you'll find more interesting ways to hit-confirm off of your hits and wrack up damage on your opponents super fast.

ALSO, never do a full turnaround eggroll ever again. You used it twice. You CANNOT do that vs anyone with a brain, it is far too slow and it is ridiculously unsafe. Work eggroll into your game for recoveries and only to use it in short bursts on-stage, you almost never want to actually turn around in eggroll.

Here's some of my play as possible reference material:
http://www.twitch.tv/dannycake/b/533520584
http://www.twitch.tv/dannycake/b/533539349

 

[Damp]

I'm going to watch the whole thing, but based off the first 5 min, man you need to speed up your game. Yoshi can decimate people from all sides all the time. From what I've seen, you're thinking far too much and not fast enough. Also, I tell now players this alot (not assuming you're new in any regard) but you need to put purpose behind every move you throw out. Never just throw out a move just to have a hitbox out. That's something everyone needs to keep in mind, but you seem to have a problem with the second aspect of that, you don't know what to do to follow your moves. You need to know options and what to follow with depending on what option your opponent takes. In the vid, you landed dair on the pikachu multiple times and had no idea how to follow it up. Yes if it pops them up its an easy follow, but if they tech or SDI correctly or they're at low %'s you don't get that knockup. In those events you just sat in shield, which will get you killed very fast vs more savvy opponents. You have to have a though process of: "If I get this hit, here's how I make the most of it. If I don't get this hit, this is how I'll escape or this is how I'll make advantage of the shield pressure" or whatever.

3 things you need to take away for right now: Speed up your neutral game, you're not even close to being fast enough right now. Secondly, use grab more, Yoshi's grab is AMAZING and opportunities to use it are everywhere throughout Yoshi's Neutral game. Lastly you're approaches are very mediocre, you just fullhop aerial and hop to god that you get a hit. Grabs are a good way to get in, Shorthop backairs are decent for spacing and hit-confirming, eggroll is a good approach if you use it creatively enough. Tech chases will come with the combination of those and you'll find more interesting ways to hit-confirm off of your hits and wrack up damage on your opponents super fast.

ALSO, never do a full turnaround eggroll ever again. You used it twice. You CANNOT do that vs anyone with a brain, it is far too slow and it is ridiculously unsafe. Work eggroll into your game for recoveries and only to use it in short bursts on-stage, you almost never want to actually turn around in eggroll.

Here's some of my play as possible reference material:
http://www.twitch.tv/dannycake/b/533520584
http://www.twitch.tv/dannycake/b/533539349

I agree that my game is too slow. I'm working on speeding up the neutral game and getting good approaches. I do way to many full hops which is slowing my game down tremendously. I also intend to work on extending combos and getting better punishes. I need to learn what to do in every DI scenario and weight class. Also, grabs. Yeah, I need to use them. I tried to use a pivot grab near the end of the second match but completely whiffed it. I've already seen much improvement from my early days, but I still have a lot to go. Thanks for the critique, it's very helpful!

 

[Deviljho]

I agree that my game is too slow. I'm working on speeding up the neutral game and getting good approaches. I do way to many full hops which is slowing my game down tremendously. I also intend to work on extending combos and getting better punishes. I need to learn what to do in every DI scenario and weight class. Also, grabs. Yeah, I need to use them. I tried to use a pivot grab near the end of the second match but completely whiffed it. I've already seen much improvement from my early days, but I still have a lot to go. Thanks for the critique, it's very helpful!

Try Shorthop DJC aerials to approach, and egg roll as a mix up. Both of those options are fast and have plenty of combo options. Your snipes are solid, btw.

 

[Damp]

Try Shorthop DJC aerials to approach, and egg roll as a mix up. Both of those options are fast and have plenty of combo options. Your snipes are solid, btw.

Thanks for the tips! And I think snipes are the best part of my Yoshi game. Egging someone right near the ledge into down smash is just so satisfying.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Try Shorthop DJC aerials to approach, and egg roll as a mix up. Both of those options are fast and have plenty of combo options. Your snipes are solid, btw.

I think DJC shorthop aerials can wait until after his game speeds up and his movement is more solid. DJC shorthop aerials aren't even in my game yet because my movement simply isn't fluid enough. Movement and neutral game first, exploring options second

 

[TomBoComBo]

I agree that my game is too slow. I'm working on speeding up the neutral game and getting good approaches. I do way to many full hops which is slowing my game down tremendously. I also intend to work on extending combos and getting better punishes. I need to learn what to do in every DI scenario and weight class. Also, grabs. Yeah, I need to use them. I tried to use a pivot grab near the end of the second match but completely whiffed it. I've already seen much improvement from my early days, but I still have a lot to go. Thanks for the critique, it's very helpful!

You're welcome sir. We all work towards the goal of showing that Yoshi is the best character in the game. As a personal goal, no disrespect to fellow Yoshi mains, I want to be the best PM Yoshi in the world, The aMSa of PM. But Yoshi is so absurdly complex and has a crazy number of options and is so diverse. I want to try to master every aspect of Yoshi, and I hope that's everyone else's goal as well.

 

[Deviljho]

Thanks for the tips! And I think snipes are the best part of my Yoshi game. Egging someone right near the ledge into down smash is just so satisfying.

Mmmmmm... So tasty...

I think DJC shorthop aerials can wait until after his game speeds up and his movement is more solid. DJC shorthop aerials aren't even in my game yet because my movement simply isn't fluid enough. Movement and neutral game first, exploring options second

It depends on the person. But he should do what he feels comfortable doing.

 

[TomBoComBo]

@ Deviljho Indeed

 

[V3ctorMan]

There's no better goal than trying to be the best Tom. Good spirit..

Also RAPTOR!!! <3 so proud of you man You might even teach me a few things.. haha I'm proud man, Keep up the good work ^^

 

[TomBoComBo]

There's no better goal than trying to be the best Tom. Good spirit..

Also RAPTOR!!! <3 so proud of you man You might even teach me a few things.. haha I'm proud man, Keep up the good work ^^

Thanks Man. Are you going to CEO?

 

[Youngster Joey]

so ive decided to pick up barney. just wanna know where to start when learning this thing. i know eggs are good. but i cant control egg roll and i was told to abuse it

 

[TomBoComBo]

so ive decided to pick up barney. just wanna know where to start when learning this thing. i know eggs are good. but i cant control egg roll and i was told to abuse it

Start with that, Know that eggroll has a hitbox from exiting eggroll. Simple but effective combo, Eggroll>Exit>Jab>Jab>Dtilt
Eggroll is also good for getting back to stage. Abuse Down-throw, since Yoshi's grab is incredible in PM.
Lastly don't call him Barney. I don't find that respectful to players like myself who have put considerable work into Yoshi.

 

[Youngster Joey]

Start with that, Know that eggroll has a hitbox from exiting eggroll. Simple but effective combo, Eggroll>Exit>Jab>Jab>Dtilt
Eggroll is also good for getting back to stage. Abuse Down-throw, since Yoshi's grab is incredible in PM.
Lastly don't call him Barney. I don't find that respectful to players like myself who have put considerable work into Yoshi.

i only call him barney because i plan to use the purple skin. but when i egg roll how do i get that exit hit box? it doesnt seem to come out every time.

 

[TomBoComBo]

i only call him barney because i plan to use the purple skin. but when i egg roll how do i get that exit hit box? it doesnt seem to come out every time.

It comes out every time you exit eggroll. Granted the hitbox isn't large, but the best way to see it is to roll into an opponent and exit the eggroll the moment after regular hitbox hits

 

[Damp]

i only call him barney because i plan to use the purple skin. but when i egg roll how do i get that exit hit box? it doesnt seem to come out every time.

I say Barney when referring to my purple Yoshi. Don't worry about it dude.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Nah you'll only get to see me at evo... work too much to be able to attend anything..

 

[Deviljho]

so ive decided to pick up barney. just wanna know where to start when learning this thing. i know eggs are good. but i cant control egg roll and i was told to abuse it

I do not recommend abusing egg roll. It's useful in situations, but it can lead to liabilities. Especially against characters like Link, Yoshi, Toon Link and Lucas. Or pretty much any character with a tether grab. Because egg roll can be grabbed out of.

My recommendations for you are learn double jump canceling, learn what you can do off of grabs and rising aerials. For grab combos, dthrow -> fair( fast fall L cancel if applicable) -> jab reset -> grab. or after the fair try double jump (cancel if you need) -> fair again (L cancel that) -> fair ->double jump -> fair. Yes, that is a thing. I've done it. Fair leaves quite a bit of hit stun, second (Maybe) to his infamous flutter kick; the dair. When that connects fully it leaves them in massive hit stun AND deals a whopping 48% damage. Try to sneak that in every once and a while. Use egg roll for combos, yes, but again, don't "abuse it". It's not by any means bad, but it is punishable, very punishable.

It comes out every time you exit eggroll. Granted the hitbox isn't large, but the best way to see it is to roll into an opponent and exit the eggroll the moment after regular hitbox hits

Yeah, it's an interesting hitbox. It certainly leads to some tasty combos.

Also back air is your friend. Love it.

Nah you'll only get to see me at evo... work too much to be able to attend anything..

Dude, someday I either want to tag along with my SoCal peeps and play ya in AZ or you suprise me in SoCal and we play there. That'd be sick bro!

 

[Youngster Joey]

I do not recommend abusing egg roll. It's useful in situations, but it can lead to liabilities. Especially against characters like Link, Yoshi, Toon Link and Lucas. Or pretty much any character with a tether grab. Because egg roll can be grabbed out of.

My recommendations for you are learn double jump canceling, learn what you can do off of grabs and rising aerials. For grab combos, dthrow -> fair( fast fall L cancel if applicable) -> jab reset -> grab. or after the fair try double jump (cancel if you need) -> fair again (L cancel that) -> fair ->double jump -> fair. Yes, that is a thing. I've done it. Fair leaves quite a bit of hit stun, second (Maybe) to his infamous flutter kick; the dair. When that connects fully it leaves them in massive hit stun AND deals a whopping 48% damage. Try to sneak that in every once and a while. Use egg roll for combos, yes, but again, don't "abuse it". It's not by any means bad, but it is punishable, very punishable.

i know about djc and all that hit stun stuff. its just general yoshi gameplay i need help with. im a mewtwo main and i know his general gameplay is defensive shadow ball zoning and d tilt poking to start combos. i know that after about 30% a yoshi fair will combo into any aerial if the opponent was grounded. and i think i wanna start egg rolling for tech chases. is that a good idea or are there better options? also whats yoshis neutral b good for? i can never get anything out of it except an egg throw.

 

[Deviljho]

i know about djc and all that hit stun stuff. its just general yoshi gameplay i need help with. im a mewtwo main and i know his general gameplay is defensive shadow ball zoning and d tilt poking to start combos. i know that after about 30% a yoshi fair will combo into any aerial if the opponent was grounded. and i think i wanna start egg rolling for tech chases. is that a good idea or are there better options? also whats yoshis neutral b good for? i can never get anything out of it except an egg throw.

Egg roll for tech chase is nice. But djc fair, bair, and dair can also work. Egg roll prolly the best of those options, but don't be afraid to go to the lab with it!

As it turns out, I've been playing around with Neutral B. It's good for throwing off your opponent. It has huge reach, longer then your normal grab, and it's quicker and leaves them imobilized. I like bair-ing them after egg lay, and if you can place it, down B. That is a hype, smexy kill, egg lay to down b. Just be sure to hit them with the down B AFTER they pop out of the egg. On another note, there is a situational tool with egg lay. If you hit them with egg lay as the tongue is retracting, yoshi will release em, giving them grab release anim and you are FREE to do as you please. Just worth noting.

 

[Sylnic]

Somewhat new-ish Yoshi main here. Could anyone explain what is/isn't working with Yoshi's parry? I know Yoshi can parry grabs now, but I heard something wasn't working 100% with his parry. I've looked around and I can't seem to find a clear answer. Any help would be appreciated

 

[TensenROB]

Somewhat new-ish Yoshi main here. Could anyone explain what is/isn't working with Yoshi's parry? I know Yoshi can parry grabs now, but I heard something wasn't working 100% with his parry. I've looked around and I can't seem to find a clear answer. Any help would be appreciated

If you block an attack during the parry frames, the opponent will go through hitlag. If you jump out of shield after the attack is blocked but during the opponent's hitlag (and maybe also during the other active frames of the attack, not sure) the attack will hit Yoshi even though you were blocking it. Yoshi could parry grabs in Melee so it's just incomplete right now.

 

[Hughie]

K remember about a month ago I said that I placed last at a major? Well, yesterday I ended up coming 9th out of around 50 people at a monthly. Super proud.

 

[MrTea]

This might have been asked already, but does footstooling ignore yoshi's super armor?

 

[TensenROB]

This might have been asked already, but does footstooling ignore yoshi's super armor?

Yeah it goes right through it. A successful footstool means Yoshi's gone, pretty much anywhere offstage.

 

[MrTea]

Yeah it goes right through it. A successful footstool means Yoshi's gone, pretty much anywhere offstage.

That seems like a pretty crippling weakness 0.0